Expat vs Economic migrant

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

 

She probably means the doubling of financial requirements that happened recently. Although I read that has been put on hold.

No, still happening though they very slightly reduced it the new threshold. Proposed 38,700, settled on 29,000 which is still a huge increase form the current  18,600.

 

The number if retirees with an income of 29,000 is surely much less than the number with 18,600, taking all sources into account.

[Walker88]

I'm firmly in the expat camp, and will remain as long as I find the place enjoyable (provided the authorities allow). No complaints at all, save for the yearly Non B Business Visa renewal, which this year actually reached 170 pages of documents, photos, duplicates, etc. Despite that tome, IOs still find 'something missing', but that is always cleared with a tribute. I lay off some of the risk by starting an office pool to guess how much this year's tribute will be. When IOs see "Owner/Director" on the DBD form, the price goes up. I just have learned to accept---begrudgingly---that it's part of the culture.

 

Absent that, Thailand is a welcoming and entertaining place to spend a few years. Should it ever become less than that, I'll try another place, but for now it suits me just fine.

 

One of the beauties of being an expat is that even if the local politics and social structure are unpleasant, none of it is mine, and none of it affects me directly. Back home one owns his or her politics and society, and it can be a source of constant irritation. Being an outsider, or spectator, rather than a player, has some very selfish advantages. That's what being an expat means.

 

If I were Thai the recent election would be an irritant, especially the presence of the stacked Senate. But I'm not, so it doesn't. Back home, one major Party has become a cult which has lost sight of the ideals on which the country was founded, such as democracy and rule of law. Also, our beloved 'separation of church and State' is clearly in jeopardy, and willful ignorance and superstition are on the rise. I have mostly given up on my home, and am content to spend the next few decades in places where I have no direct skin in the game. For now, that means the lovely land of Thailand.

[stoner]

9 hours ago, Celsius said:

Saved half a million CAD n in 10 years.

 

so that's like 18 real dollars :)

 

[Keeps]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No, still happening though they very slightly reduced it the new threshold. Proposed 38,700, settled on 29,000 which is still a huge increase form the current  18,600.

 

The number if retirees with an income of 29,000 is surely much less than the number with 18,600, taking all sources into account.

I believe that the level of £18,600 was originally set in 2012 and has never been increased. Over the last 10 years inflation has equated to 48%. Just taking this into account would raise the level to around £27,500 so the NEW proposed amount of £29,000 would not appear to be too unreasonable. 

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, Keeps said:

I believe that the level of £18,600 was originally set in 2012 and has never been increased. Over the last 10 years inflation has equated to 48%. Just taking this into account would raise the level to around £27,500 so the NEW proposed amount of £29,000 would not appear to be too unreasonable. 

Very few UK retirees have that high an income. Of course they may own thir homes outright but that is nto taken into account under this law.

[MarkyM3]

6 hours ago, SportRider said:

Agree.  This thread feels distastefully judgemental somehow.

The OP makes a point of it. Several different usernames over the years on this forum and much the same throughout. Was supposed to be going back to Canada but hasn't followed through unfortunately and still posting bait carp like this thread. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by MarkyM3

[chris carre]

13 hours ago, Celsius said:

It seems to me that a lot of posters here are not expats, but rather economic migrants.

 

When I read some posts here I am astonished with amazement to read.....

 

"I use an agent because I can't meet financial requirements."

 

"I rely on gofundme and luck from above for medical treatments"

 

"I would rather live poor in Thailand than poor in Europe"

 

"I teach English in Thailand"

 

Thailand is no place for the poors

 

 

I teech ennglish in thailand foor healp mi thaii familly.tjhey goud to me🤣🤣🤣

[Celsius]

19 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

Was supposed to be going back to Canada but hasn't followed through unfortunately 

 

That's a shame. I am allowed to change my mind as I see fit.

[MarkyM3]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Very few UK retirees have that high an income. Of course they may own thir homes outright but that is nto taken into account under this law.

I definitely feel the proposed income benchmark needs to take account of liquid assets like savings (property isn't liquid) in the qualification criteria where the person is retired. It should be be tweaked to do so, if it doesn't already. That way, most financially secure retirees would be able bring their wives to the UK.

 

But retirees are hardly the focus of this new policy. It's come about because the UK has seen its population increase by 15%+ over the last 20 years. Last year's net migration figures of 750k have prompted action since it's not sustainable on a small island. Housing and infrastructure is creaking at the seams. The government of the last 10+ years was elected on a manifesto pledge of keeping net migration under 100k pa, something it's never met. 

 

Bear in mind the median income in the UK is just under 35k and the new 38k benchmark is being staggered over 2 years - 29k in 2024 and 38k in 2025. The idea is too add skilled people to the working population where a UK citizen can't be found to perform the work rather than allowing employers to suppress wages and use imported cheap labour.   

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by MarkyM3

[Keeps]

31 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

I definitely feel the proposed income benchmark needs to take account of liquid assets like savings (property isn't liquid) in the qualification criteria where the person is retired. It should be be tweaked to do so, if it doesn't already. That way, most financially secure retirees would be able bring their wives to the UK.

 

But retirees are hardly the focus of this new policy. It's come about because the UK has seen its population increase by 15%+ over the last 20 years. Last year's net migration figures of 750k have prompted action since it's not sustainable on a small island. Housing and infrastructure is creaking at the seams. The government of the last 10+ years was elected on a manifesto pledge of keeping net migration under 100k pa, something it's never met. 

 

Bear in mind the median income in the UK is just under 35k and the new 38k benchmark is being staggered over 2 years - 29k in 2024 and 38k in 2025. The idea is too add skilled people to the working population where a UK citizen can't be found to perform the work rather than allowing employers to suppress wages and use imported cheap labour.   

 

 

Excellent summarisation. There is a provision for savings to be taken into account and a "combination" method is acceptable. 

[cowellandrew]

This is easy,

economic migrants enter via dingy UK or tunnel USA, 

Ex Pat's leave on a plane,

😁

 

[Satcommlee]

I think we are all to some degree economic migrants, except many of us are illegal immigrants based solely on the fact we do not meet the legal requirements of having the 800K in the bank and use illegal means to remain.

 

It is almost laughable that many of these very same people are the first to condemn the people who arrive illegally on the shores of Europe on the boats etc... These people are also exploiting weak laws for their economic benefit..

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Satcommlee

[Scouse123]

 

 

When we refer to economic migrants, (not ecomonic), we are usually referring to people who move for better job opportunities and a better standard of living through earnings potential in a new country.

 

You seem to be talking about people relocating that have come to Thailand underfunded, the two are not the same.

 

I wouldn't class people who come here underfunded, without insurance, rely on GoFundMe or enough cash, as economic migrants. I would class them as feckless.

 

If you are Canadian, and you know better, enlighten us!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Scouse123

[baansgr]

Own house and bikes etc..dont smoke or drink. Exercise daily and have many hobbies to keep me occupied...my total outlay including sufficient health insurance totals 17k baht per month...never be able to do that in UK....should I not be allowed to stay here?

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

When we refer to economic migrants, (not ecomonic), we are usually referring to people who move for better job opportunities and a better standard of living through earnings potential in a new country.

 

You seem to be talking about people relocating that have come to Thailand underfunded, the two are not the same.

 

I wouldn't class people who come here underfunded, without insurance, rely on GoFundMe or enough cash, as economic migrants. I would class them as feckless.

 

If you are Canadian, and you know better, enlighten us!

 

 

 

 

 

It's not as black and white as that. There are many people who relocated here years ago who were well funded but because of global economics and personal circumstances, combined with longevity, became underfunded. There are several classifications and people can move from one classification to another, solely because of circumstances.

[Celsius]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It's not as black and white as that. There are many people who relocated here years ago who were well funded but because of global economics and personal circumstances, combined with longevity, became underfunded. There are several classifications and people can move from one classification to another, solely because of circumstances.

 

So, no contingency plan? Moving to a third world country where you literally have zero rights and not expecting things to go horribly wrong at least at 1 point in your life is somehow a good idea?

 

A lot of people on this forum laughed a Thais during covid because of their inability to save and prepare when times were good,

 

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

So, no contingency plan? Moving to a third world country where you literally have zero rights and not expecting things to go horribly wrong at least at 1 point in your life is somehow a good idea?

 

A lot of people on this forum laughed a Thais during covid because of their inability to save and prepare when times were good,

 

I have several but many don't, I think it's boiling from syndrome or the thought that life is shorter than it really is.

[Bday Prang]

7 hours ago, Satcommlee said:

I think we are all to some degree economic migrants, except many of us are illegal immigrants based solely on the fact we do not meet the legal requirements of having the 800K in the bank and use illegal means to remain.

 

It is almost laughable that many of these very same people are the first to condemn the people who arrive illegally on the shores of Europe on the boats etc... These people are also exploiting weak laws for their economic benefit..

 

            And its also somewhat ironic that the same people on here who are constantly whining that some expats are  "spoiling it for the rest of us" by taking what are in effect immigration sanctioned short cuts, ie use of agents etc.     Yet the same  people  remain sympathetic to illegal immigration in Uk despite the fact that it has, due to the governments latest reaction,  spoiled things for them.

             Have any of them considered that bringing their spouse to the UK might not be so difficult if it wasn't for the excessive amount of illegals who have arrived there and continue to do so   Every one of which contributes to a huge drain on public funds, millions of pounds every day just to house them 

              Few expats if any place a,  burden on the Thai economy and virtually none are seeking employment either.    8ook in the bank does little to help anybody if one is not allowed to spend it.

       

[FruitPudding]

19 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Oh.... a d1k measuring contest!

 

That is what the poors do.

 

But yes, I am quite content with spending my prime earning years in Thailand saving half a million, Sorry that triggers you for some reason. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, you make a thread to slag of expats with less money than you, until you come across a member with more money than you.......and all of a sudden you don't want to play the d!ck measuring contest (that you started) anymore.

 

Just take your ball and go home.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The number if retirees with an income of 29,000 is surely much less than the number with 18,600, taking all sources into account.

A distorted way of looking at it.

The true comparison would be the ratio above and below £18,600 in 2012 compared the same ration for £29,000 in 2024. The revised figure is directly related to UK inflation so anyone who was above in 2012 is likely to be above next year.

The real injustice here is that pensioners, unlike those who work, have no control over their income and become disadvantaged in any legislation that relates to earnings. Frozen pensions don't come into it as if you did apply for spouse visa it woud be based on the pension received when in the UK.

[Celsius]

26 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

So, you make a thread to slag of expats with less money than you, until you come across a member with more money than you.......and all of a sudden you don't want to play the d!ck measuring contest (that you started) anymore.

 

Just take your ball and go home.

 

I don't know if he has more money than me.

 

All I mentioned is that I saved 500k in 10 years. He is the one that started by saying I failed in Thailand.

 

But correct, I don't do d1k measuring contest with liars and sexpats who after years of living in Thailand all they can type in every reply is  "555". Kinda loso thing to do.

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

The government of the last 10+ years was elected on a manifesto pledge of keeping net migration under 100k pa, something it's never met. 

Indeed, and net migration has 2 sides. The number of UK nationals emigrating is now less than half of what it was 20 years ago, only 92K last year.

The government is so narrow minded they only look at one side, a lot more could be done in boosting emigration which would bring down the net migration. Frozen pensions would be a good start.

[Scouse123]

When you have a huge influx of undocumented immigrants arriving to your shores, there is obviously a large impact on resources.

 

The UK does not have the facilities to house them nor the resources to police them, hence they get bail and then disappear into the community never to be seen again. The UK, unlike Thailand, doesn't throw them into an immigration cell with standing room only.

 

These migrants then become a drain on resources such as hospitals, housing, schools etc, it isn't merely the fact of feeding them. Many come with diseases because they have never been immunised.

 

Furthermore, because a great many are not allowed into the 'work pool legally 'they move into the casual/cash labour market or into crime. They move into crime because they have paid illegally, and obtained loans from underground and mafia figures to get to Europe or the UK, which must be paid back and serviced.

 

So, it is not as simple as these 'poor old migrants 'as with their arrival, comes plenty of unwanted baggage.

 

Then there is the 'clash of cultures 'as many of their countries of origin do not share European norms and women's freedoms. Hence, the large increase in attacks on women in European capitals, by foreign men.

 

They know the ropes, they send children alone first, then, immigration lawyers claiming legal aid import their families to this new green and pleasant land. This puts further strain on the host country that they have never been part of, nor contributed to.

 

So, is it small wonder that there is local resentment, where hospital appointments are already measured in months and years, not weeks, anymore!

 

I bet some of these 'bleeding hearts 'for migrants are the biggest complainers when their loved ones cannot get the cancer treatment they need or their kids cannot get into their selected school due to overcrowding.

 

When any of this gets mentioned, We are shouted down by the Liberals and Lefties as Enoch Powell lovers or Bigots.

 

This is just because they think it's the easy way to quieten us down because nobody wants the term 'racist 'in 2023.

 

 These immigrants, arriving in dinghies are schooled, and trained on their rights in the UK, and also what to say to immigration officials way before leaving French shores.

[Bday Prang]

Would any Thai spouses even want to go live in the UK. if they had any concept of what life on the breadline was like there? 

[FruitPudding]

4 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

All I mentioned is that I saved 500k in 10 years. He is the one that started by saying I failed in Thailand.

 

Is that what your thread is about though? You started this thread.

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, Bday Prang said:

Would any Thai spouses even want to go live in the UK. if they had any concept of what life on the breadline was like there? 

 

No, they don't. They all think they will live in London and share some nice photos on Facebook to make their friends jealous. instead they end up divorcing and leaving their low IQ Farang mugs penniless while they are back enjoying life in Thailand. 

[Scouse123]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Indeed, and net migration has 2 sides. The number of UK nationals emigrating is now less than half of what it was 20 years ago, only 92K last year.

The government is so narrow minded they only look at one side, a lot more could be done in boosting emigration which would bring down the net migration. Frozen pensions would be a good start.

 

Right,

 

So you are asking British people to emigrate from Britain, to allow illegal boat people to immigrate?

 

I bet the government hasn't thought of that one.

[Scouse123]

4 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Would any Thai spouses even want to go live in the UK. if they had any concept of what life on the breadline was like there? 

 

They go with pre-conceived ideas and don't want to lose face returning to Thailand without sackfuls of money.

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

It's not as black and white as that. There are many people who relocated here years ago who were well funded but because of global economics and personal circumstances, combined with longevity, became underfunded. There are several classifications and people can move from one classification to another, solely because of circumstances.

 

Yes,

 

That can happen, and then they need to reassess, can they really afford to live abroad.

 

You should always have a contingency plan and money set aside for unforeseen circumstances.

[Scouse123]

9 hours ago, cowellandrew said:

This is easy,

economic migrants enter via dingy UK or tunnel USA, 

Ex Pat's leave on a plane,

😁

 

 

 

And pass through immigration and obtain the relevant visas required.