Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Water flows through my water pump even when it is not running. I have confirmed it by turning the valve on/off. I don't think it was always like this. Does it need to be repaired? Or is there some (simple) adjustment I can make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Where is the water coming from town supply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ71 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Post photo of pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 Well, it is the standard setup I believe. Water from the town supply is stored in a fiber glass tank. The Toshiba pump is connected to the tank and pumps water into the house as needed. It is a standard square, pressure sensitive pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Wandr said: Water flows through my water pump even when it is not running. I have confirmed it by turning the valve on/off. I don't think it was always like this. Does it need to be repaired? Or is there some (simple) adjustment I can make. Water has to flow through your pump - expect you have a tank attached to pump and water flows from that until pressure gets below re-start pressure - then pump fills that tank to shut-off pressure in normal cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 38 minutes ago, lopburi3 said: Water has to flow through your pump - expect you have a tank attached to pump and water flows from that until pressure gets below re-start pressure - then pump fills that tank to shut-off pressure in normal cycle. You must not be familiar with the system here. The pump doesn't fill the tank - it gets water from it. The standard Toshiba has a pressure sensitive bladder that senses when a faucet is opened in the house and shoots water into it. It's ok. I will drop into a pump shop and ask them what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Wandr said: You must not be familiar with the system here. The pump doesn't fill the tank - it gets water from it. The standard Toshiba has a pressure sensitive bladder that senses when a faucet is opened in the house and shoots water into it. It's ok. I will drop into a pump shop and ask them what is going on. Actually the pump does fill that bladder (inside tank) to a set pressure - when tap is opened the high pressure from bladder send water through tap. When tap is closed (or when in use) pump tries to restore pressure to the water in that bladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, lopburi3 said: Actually the pump does fill that bladder (inside tank) to a set pressure - when tap is opened the high pressure from bladder send water through tap. When tap is closed (or when in use) pump tries to restore pressure to the water in that bladder. There is no bladder inside the tank. The bladder is in a metal container inside the pump itself. People who live in condos may not be aware of how house water supply works here, because it's done by the condo management. Thank you for your effort, but why try to answer when you don't have the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDisplayName Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Wandr said: Water flows through my water pump even when it is not running. I have confirmed it by turning the valve on/off. I don't think it was always like this. Does it need to be repaired? Or is there some (simple) adjustment I can make. I assume you mean the valve between the storage tank and the pump. If so, yes, water will continue to run through the pump as long as there is head in the tank. When I do pipe repairs, I have to remember to turn the pump off AND turn off the the supply valve from the main storage tank. Lopburi is talking about a system with a smaller pressure tank between the pump and the house intake that maintains a more constant pressure. That one has a pressurized bladder. Not all systems have a pressure tank. Mine does not. I'm not sure, but I think the pressurized tanks are more common on systems drawing water from wells. Edited December 25, 2023 by NoDisplayName 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 27 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said: I assume you mean the valve between the storage tank and the pump. If so, yes, water will continue to run through the pump as long as there is head in the tank. When I do pipe repairs, I have to remember to turn the pump off AND turn off the the supply valve from the main storage tank. Lopburi is talking about a system with a smaller pressure tank between the pump and the house intake that maintains a more constant pressure. That one has a pressurized bladder. Not all systems have a pressure tank. Mine does not. I'm not sure, but I think the pressurized tanks are more common on systems drawing water from wells. Are you saying that water from the tank will run through the pump and into the house water system even when the pump is not running? So even if I unplug the pump, water will flow into the faucets? It was never like that, if I remember right. If the electricity died there was no water in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Wandr said: Water flows through my water pump even when it is not running So where is that water going after it goes through the pump? It doesn’t just disappear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDisplayName Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Wandr said: Are you saying that water from the tank will run through the pump and into the house water system even when the pump is not running? So even if I unplug the pump, water will flow into the faucets? It was never like that, if I remember right. If the electricity died there was no water in the house. Yes, the hydraulic head in the big 700-1000 liter storage tank next to your pump is pushing water through the pump even when the pump is off. You'll get some flow, much less than when pump is running, from outlets lower than the tank water level or parts of the system still charged with water. (If that's not the way it's supposed to work, then my pump may be defective also.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDisplayName Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I assume it's like a house fan. Turn it on and it blows a constant stream of air. Turn it off and wind drafts will flow through and turn the blades. Neither the unpowered fan nor the unpowered water pump lock the blades when not in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said: Yes, the hydraulic head in the big 700-1000 liter storage tank next to your pump is pushing water through the pump even when the pump is off. You'll get some flow, much less than when pump is running, from outlets lower than the tank water level or parts of the system still charged with water. (If that's not the way it's supposed to work, then my pump may be defective also.) Let me talk to one of the pump shops in the city. If I get a definitive answer I will post it here, but it is likely to be next year. What you are saying could be correct. Because I am testing with garden faucets, which are positioned quite low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDisplayName Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Depends on how your system is designed. Ours has the main storage tank and pump feeding the house separate from the yard faucets. When power goes out, we lose water in the house, but still have water pressure in the yard. House outlets are situated close to or higher than the water tank level, so little to no head pressure without the pump. Garden outlets are connected directly to the government supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 35 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said: Yes, the hydraulic head in the big 700-1000 liter storage tank next to your pump is pushing water through the pump even when the pump is off So where is that water going? Do you always have some valve open? We’re does it go if all valves are closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandr Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Bill97 said: So where is that water going? Do you always have some valve open? We’re does it go if all valves are closed? It is available in the piping. So if a faucet is opened it will trickle out. At least in the lower level faucets. As an aside, I don't want any water in the system so that I can control watering solely through the electric pump and a timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlyai Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 You could install a solonoid (normally closed) valve between the tank and pump. When power to the pump and solonoid are present, the valve opens. I have a valve in my Mitsubishi pump that stops water flow below a certain pressure. I think my house pump is set to 18-24. On at 18psi and off at 24 psi. I feed the house pump from a 3000L tank. My water does not flow when the pump is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobblybob Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 If I can just add my ha'penny worth, it may help, but probably not.🤔 Last month my pump would start up (pulsate) about every 5 seconds when all taps were closed, I narrowed it down to the flapper in one of the toilets, removed it and cleaned the calcium from the large rubber sealing ring and where it seated and it cured that problem. But now when a tap was turned on it would surge on and off in about 1 second intervals, so took the bladder tank off and drained it, then replaced it and it cured that problem. I wonder what the next problem will be?🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 12 minutes ago, Wobblybob said: But now when a tap was turned on it would surge on and off in about 1 second intervals, so took the bladder tank off and drained it, then replaced it and it cured that problem Water logged tank - happens often with bladderless tanks or if bladder develops a leak as the air pressure mix with water and eventually no extra pressure. Some tanks have a valve to check pressure but if failure new tank may be required. The removal of water and replacement seems to have fixed your issue (at least for the time being). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mran66 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) On 12/25/2023 at 12:15 PM, Wandr said: Water flows through my water pump even when it is not running. I have confirmed it by turning the valve on/off. I don't think it was always like this. Does it need to be repaired? Or is there some (simple) adjustment I can make. For the usual house water pump (like my Mitsubishi WP-305), water for sure flows thru if the water in tank is higher than the outlet of the pump (or if supply pressure is higher than the outlet pressure). If the motor is not running, the pump simply acts as check valve (one directional valve). Water will not flow in reverse direction even if pressure in outlets side is higher than supply side (i.e water fill not flow from 3rd floor of your house to underground tank even if pump is off). The actual valve element and load spring is under the cap on suction side. Actually, if city water pressure is high enough, the pump will not even turn on when you use water in the house (as long as the pressure does not drop below the pressure switch threshold). Where I live, used to be like that at times until couple of years ago (pressure sometimes 4-5bars), though seems the pressure level in the system has been reduced to around 2bars so that pump always kicks in if use water nowadays Then it is a separate question where and why the water flows, esp if it should not flow. If all taps closed on pressure side and water still flowing, there is a leak somewhere. But pump works as it should Edited December 28, 2023 by mran66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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