Is this the future for EV cars?

[BenStark]

23 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Sales of EVs have slumped in America, correct. Sales of EVs in Asia, especially Thailand are increasing.

 

Not difficulty to comprehend for the average person, which doesn't seem to include you.

 

In the US EV's are sold for many more years, so the woke market get saturated, and some of the early buyers already have learned their lesson.

 

In Asia the EV market is still in their puber time, so of course sales increase, until the same happens as in the western world

[Gweiloman]

26 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

Did you read the news that the discounts on electricity will not be extended?

 

And yeah you may charge cheaper, although you have paid a higher purchase price compared to an equivalent ICE car, repair costs are much higher, and let's talk again if you have to replace your battery or if you want to sell your car after a few years

I guess you mean the FT charge or something like that. Even if electricity prices were to double, it would still only cost me Thb 400 instead Thb 200. Doubt I would lose sleep over that.

 

An equivalent ICE car to my EV would probably cost the same if not more. What a lot of non EV owners don’t realise is that the petrol and EV version of a particular make and model are not equivalent cars. The driving and ownership experience are worlds apart. Repair costs may well be higher but unless involved in an accident, there are minimal to no repair costs. Very little servicing costs as well and no money spent on changing all the various types of oils an ICE needs. Brake pads hardly need replacing. And definitely huge savings on fuel, especially if one does lots of mileage like I do.

 

3 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

Not difficulty to comprehend for the average person, which doesn't seem to include you.

 

In the US EV's are sold for many more years, so the woke market get saturated, and some of the early buyers already have learned their lesson.

 

In Asia the EV market is still in their puber time, so of course sales increase, until the same happens as in the western world

Comparing the situation in the US and in Thailand is an error that even an average person won’t make. Seems like you’re, like me, not an average person either.

 

A lot of the EVs first sold in the US (and even now) were crap US or European made rubbish with outdated tech, poor build quality and faulty software. It’s no wonder that the ownership experience was horrendous. And thanks to US policies, the population will continue to have access only to these sub par EVs. The US also has very poor infrastructure so it’s no wonder that EVs are losing popularity. I don’t know the price differential between gasoline and electricity prices there but in Thailand, there is a huge price differential which makes the business case of EVs much stronger. But I guess the “average” Joe won’t be able to comprehend all these different variables.
 

 

[josephbloggs]

30 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

Not difficulty to comprehend for the average person, which doesn't seem to include you.

 

In the US EV's are sold for many more years, so the woke market get saturated, and some of the early buyers already have learned their lesson.

 

In Asia the EV market is still in their puber time, so of course sales increase, until the same happens as in the western world

Here's a more in-depth analysis for you if you care to read it. It uses adult language though and not things like "woke market" or other childish terms.

https://www.ev-volumes.com/#:~:text=However%2C over 300%2C000 additional EV,damaged demand%2C particularly for PHEVs.

Edited December 31, 2023 by josephbloggs
Typo

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Oh, did I mention that it costs me only about Thb 200 to fully charge my car from 0-100%?

 

What is the expected lifespan of the battery and is it free to replace ?

 

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

What is the expected lifespan of the battery and is it free to replace ?

 

Expected lifespan of current modern batteries should outlast the lifespan of the car. Most manufacturers give an 8 year warranty on the battery. I would like to think that the brainiacs they have in their engineering department knows more than the average Aseannow poster when it comes to this matter.

 

 I believe it’s free to replace if it develops a defect within the warranty period. Outside of the warranty period, in 8 years time or so, logic dictates that batteries would cost far less than they do today.

[kwak250]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

 1000-1500 baht gone for the luxury of being able to add to the local air pollution.

10 mins X 52 weeks = 8.6 hr waiting around to waste money 

Now I spend that 50k baht on something I actually want.

Like new batteries?

Electricy?

Handbag?

Edited December 31, 2023 by kwak250

[kwak250]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Oh, did I mention that it costs me only about Thb 200 to fully charge my car from 0-100%?

If it was free I would still have to think about it.

 

[Gweiloman]

7 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

If it was free I would still have to think about it.

 

By all means, stick with your diesel truck or petrol powered car. Enjoy the fumes and the racket it makes. Enjoy paying 35 baht per litre (1,000 - 2,000 baht to fill your tank to drive 500-800 km?). I’ve been there, done that, in a better place now. No one is holding a gun to your head to buy an EV. 
 

As for me. I get home, plug in my charger, enjoy my Scotch and wake up to a full tank every morning. And no worries about power outages.

[impulse]

18 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

As for me. I get home, plug in my charger, enjoy my Scotch and wake up to a full tank every morning. And no worries about power outages.

Works great if that's your lifestyle.  I generally go on 2-3 road trips a month that exceed EV range.

 

I've said before, if I ever become a multi-vehicle family (of one person) again, my main vehicle will be an EV.  It works for 70-90% of my driving.  But I can't see having an EV as my only vehicle, because of the 10-30% of road tripping. 

 

In fact, when I lived in Thailand, the only time I fired up the pickup was for road trips on weekends.  During the week, I was a BTS/MRT/taxi fan.

 

[kwak250]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Expected lifespan of current modern batteries should outlast the lifespan of the car. Most manufacturers give an 8 year warranty on the battery. I would like to think that the brainiacs they have in their engineering department knows more than the average Aseannow poster when it comes to this matter.

 

 I believe it’s free to replace if it develops a defect within the warranty period. Outside of the warranty period, in 8 years time or so, logic dictates that batteries would cost far less than they do today.

The price of a used Ev after 8 years would be very low I would have thought as almost everything on it including the batteries would be shot.

 

Would anyone here buy a 5 year old used EV?

 

Not me buy a used diesel/gasoline car that's 5 years old would not be an issue to buy or sell.

 

I can see the appeal of an electic car around the town.

Long trips no chance 

 

Have you seen all the problems with people trying to wait for a slot to charge their Ev over the last few days?

 

I know you can avoid that and charge at home but I just did 610 km to the beach which I don't think many EVs would manage 

If they did then how are you going to get back home?

Evs are probably ok when it's not a holiday but lots of stranded evs the last few days waiting to charge.

Heard some people waiting in the car for 8 hours for a chance to charge 

Fuk that..

 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

By all means, stick with your diesel truck or petrol powered car. Enjoy the fumes and the racket it makes. Enjoy paying 35 baht per litre (1,000 - 2,000 baht to fill your tank to drive 500-800 km?). I’ve been there, done that, in a better place now. No one is holding a gun to your head to buy an EV. 
 

As for me. I get home, plug in my charger, enjoy my Scotch and wake up to a full tank every morning. And no worries about power outages.

That must be a combined diesel truck time machine that went back in time to 2nd February 2023 when B7 diesel was B34.94 per litre  Since 20th September 2023 B7 diesel has been priced at B29.94 per litre

https://www.bangchak.co.th/en/oilprice/historical?year=2023

[Gweiloman]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

Works great if that's your lifestyle.  I generally go on 2-3 road trips a month that exceed EV range.

 

I've said before, if I ever become a multi-vehicle family (of one person) again, my main vehicle will be an EV.  It works for 70-90% of my driving.  But I can't see having an EV as my only vehicle, because of the 10-30% of road tripping. 

 

In fact, when I lived in Thailand, the only time I fired up the pickup was for road trips on weekends.  During the week, I was a BTS/MRT/taxi fan.

 

 

4 hours ago, kwak250 said:

The price of a used Ev after 8 years would be very low I would have thought as almost everything on it including the batteries would be shot.

 

Would anyone here buy a 5 year old used EV?

 

Not me buy a used diesel/gasoline car that's 5 years old would not be an issue to buy or sell.

 

I can see the appeal of an electic car around the town.

Long trips no chance 

 

Have you seen all the problems with people trying to wait for a slot to charge their Ev over the last few days?

 

I know you can avoid that and charge at home but I just did 610 km to the beach which I don't think many EVs would manage 

If they did then how are you going to get back home?

Evs are probably ok when it's not a holiday but lots of stranded evs the last few days waiting to charge.

Heard some people waiting in the car for 8 hours for a chance to charge 

Fuk that..

 

I don’t know why some people can’t get it into their heads that an EV might not be the best choice for them, depending on their lifestyle and budget. EV owners on this forum has stated repeatedly that an EV does not suit those who are either unable to charge at home and/or frequently do long distance journeys.

 

In the case of @impulse, if you are doing 2-3 journeys a month that exceeds for eg 400 km, then you are probably better off with an ICEV or PHEV. I personally don’t know anyone that does that many long distance trips regularly and frequently. The only person I know who does that do it because he works in CM and his wife works in Phitsanulok (and they are trying desperately to start a family). Actually, having said that, he is very keen to purchase an EV as he believes he will save a significant amount of money on fuel.

 

As for @kwak250, if the resale value is an important consideration , then an EV may not be a wise choice as resale values are uncertain. As to the charging problems that some supposedly faced over the last few days, then they have made a poor choice. That’s a reflection of their intelligence, not a fault of the EV. I just completed a 840 km journey in my PHEV instead of my BEV in case there were massive queues at the charging stations. As it turned out however, I did not have to queue up at any of the charging stations I went to and only about 120 kms of my journey was propelled by my ICE. In the process, I saved a lot of money putting in electrons instead of petrol.

 

By the way, I’m suitably impressed that you were able to complete a 610  km journey to the beach without having to empty your bladder or to fill your stomach. I couldn’t and wouldn’t want to do that.

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

That must be a combined diesel truck time machine that went back in time to 2nd February 2023 when B7 diesel was B34.94 per litre  Since 20th September 2023 B7 diesel has been priced at B29.94 per litre

https://www.bangchak.co.th/en/oilprice/historical?year=2023

I do not know if the poster I was replying to owns a diesel pickup truck or a petrol powered vehicle. The last time I put diesel in my truck, it cost me over 2,000 baht to fill the tank and almost 1,000 baht for my petrol powered hatchback.

 

All your post proved is that fuel prices can and do fluctuate wildly whilst electricity prices are fairly stable. How much does it cost currently for you to fill your tank and how many kms can you get out of a full tank?

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I do not know if the poster I was replying to owns a diesel pickup truck or a petrol powered vehicle. The last time I put diesel in my truck, it cost me over 2,000 baht to fill the tank and almost 1,000 baht for my petrol powered hatchback.

 

All your post proved is that fuel prices can and do fluctuate wildly whilst electricity prices are fairly stable. How much does it cost currently for you to fill your tank and how many kms can you get out of a full tank?

My diesel pickup costs me BT.2200.00 to fill on average, I get 1000 km to the tank.

 

I would imagine most modern diesel pickups are similar.

[Gweiloman]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

My diesel pickup costs me BT.2200.00 to fill on average, I get 1000 km to the tank.

 

I would imagine most modern diesel pickups are similar.

So my estimate of Thb 1,000 - 2,000 for a driving range of 500-800 km was pretty spot on. It currently costs me about Thb500 - 600 baht to charge my EV for the same range if I don’t use solar. I’m not complaining for sure.

[JBChiangRai]

13 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

Correct, if you use your EV only to go to the local 7/11 you can charge at home. Once you want to travel more than 300km in one go you will have to charge somewhere else.

 

So it's obvious that you have restricted your travelling to the limitations of the vehicle you own

Not really, I prefer to fly if I’m going any distance, I felt exactly the same way when I drove a noisy, polluting legacy vehicle that so had to waste time filling up every couple of weeks.

 

13 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

It seems that you are either ignorant or lying through your teeth to make your boat float, if you want to claim that EVERY EV now at once can drive 500kms.

 

He never claimed every EV can go 500km
 

13 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Give me a gas hog any day.  Sales of EV have slumped. The Woke thinkers who are buying them will reach saturation at some point.  Resale values of people who have them now will be practically worthless as they improve the technology.  Kind of like spending $1,000 on a VCR years ago.

Especially in the U.S. Republican Desantis and Trump are not fans of EV if they win, government support will probably be limited.  

Sales of EV’s haven’t slumped in Thailand, they are growing every month.

 

12 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

Did you read the news that the discounts on electricity will not be extended?

 

And yeah you may charge cheaper, although you have paid a higher purchase price compared to an equivalent ICE car, repair costs are much higher, and let's talk again if you have to replace your battery or if you want to sell your car after a few years

 

I don’t think they are more expensive, they are comparable and in some cases cheaper.  The BYD Seal is in the Camry/Accord segment and despite being a vastly superior car, it’s no more expensive.

[impulse]

5 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I don’t know why some people can’t get it into their heads that an EV might not be the best choice for them, depending on their lifestyle and budget. EV owners on this forum has stated repeatedly that an EV does not suit those who are either unable to charge at home and/or frequently do long distance journeys.

The issue that I have with that (and not with you) is the politicians and greenies wanting to mandate EV's and eliminate ICE's completely.  Long before, IMO, the EV's and infrastructure will be ready for prime time.  That's a bet they're willing to take on my (our) behalf.  Me, not so much.  I think they're counting on changing our lifestyle as opposed to developing the tech and the charging infrastructure.

 

For me in my last year in Thailand, I was hanging out with a woman that liked to spend weekends in a Wat around 3 Pagodas.  So 2-3 times a month I'd fire up the pickup, pick her up after work and off we'd go.  My kayak lived on top the pickup with a recumbent bike in the bed, so hiring a van wasn't a viable option.  (I do question the wisdom of hanging out with her, since it never went anywhere.)

 

Back home in Texas, I lived on Galveston Island and had family in Austin and deep East Texas.  An EV would have been ideal around the island and my brother has a Prius for just that reason.  For road trips, my Toyota Sienna takes me there and allows me to nap on a cot in the back since I recognized the danger of tired driving.  The cot won't fit in the Prius and I can't tow the boats to the neighborhood boat ramp with it, either.  Take away my ICE and I'll have to pay someone to launch the boats.  And that's not cheap.

 

Edited January 1 by impulse

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

The issue that I have with that (and not with you) is the politicians and greenies wanting to mandate EV's and eliminate ICE's completely.  Long before, IMO, the EV's and infrastructure will be ready for prime time.  That's a bet they're willing to take on my (our) behalf.  Me, not so much.  I think they're counting on changing our lifestyle as opposed to developing the tech and the charging infrastructure.

 

For me in my last year in Thailand, I was hanging out with a woman that liked to spend weekends in a Wat around 3 Pagodas.  So 2-3 times a month I'd fire up the pickup, pick her up after work and off we'd go.  My kayak lived on top the pickup with a recumbent bike in the bed, so hiring a van wasn't a viable option.  (I do question the wisdom of hanging out with her, since it never went anywhere.)

 

Back home in Texas, I lived on Galveston Island and had family in Austin and deep East Texas.  An EV would have been ideal around the island and my brother has a Prius for just that reason.  For road trips, my Toyota Sienna takes me there and allows me to nap on a cot in the back since I recognized the danger of tired driving.  The cot won't fit in the Prius and I can't tow the boats to the neighborhood boat ramp with it, either.  Take away my ICE and I'll have to pay someone to launch the boats.  And that's not cheap.

 

 

I think the problem is that if the government doesn't mandate dates for EV's and withdrawing ICE vehicles, it will never happen.  Manufacturers need many years to develop new EV products and for the charging infrastructure to be rolled out.  Likewise for power generation to go green, or as green as possible.

 

 

[Photoguy21]

If EV's really were the future how come so many major companies are ditching them? As others here have said fir driving just a short distance from home fine but as a general go any distance vehicle they are not suitable.

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

If EV's really were the future how come so many major companies are ditching them? As others here have said fir driving just a short distance from home fine but as a general go any distance vehicle they are not suitable.

Can you tell us which major brands are ditching them please? (Pretty sure you're going to say Honda and GM which would only confirm you listen to click bait YouTubers and don't seek out the actual statements from the manufacturers). But in case I missed something, please enlighten.

If you do indeed say Honda and GM I can help.

In fact nearly all companies are committed to a fully electric future with concrete timeframes.

[Ralf001]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Can you tell us which major brands are ditching them please? 
In fact nearly all companies are committed to a fully electric future with concrete timeframes.

 

Toyota announced in the past few months and Ford did this last week.

[josephbloggs]

34 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Toyota announced in the past few months and Ford did this last week.

And you would have a link for these announcements of course? Please share. Please don't post an anti-EV YouTuber giving his spin, just a link to the actual announcements that you saw.

I have seen announcements that Toyota is reshaping it's EV platforms, slowing down production whilst it invests in new EV  technology platforms. It ignored the technology for so long seeing it as no threat to ICE sales, scrapped a JV with Tesla on an all electric RAV-4 back in 2012, and now it is paying the price at it is years behind the leaders. It's current production processes for EVs are too slow and cumbersome so they are not competitive on cost, hence the reinvestment in new platforms.

Toyota have missed the boat completely.

Ford are also having major problems with its unions that makes them uncompetitive and unproductive in the EV space. Again, they are trying to find solutions to enable them to compete with the likes of Tesla and other marques who didn't ignore the EV trend. The are paying catch up and are a long long way behind.

The future is Chinese and I love how triggered that makes people.

But again, please post your links to announcements they are not going to make EVs anymore.

 

 

Edited January 1 by josephbloggs

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Photoguy21 said:

If EV's really were the future how come so many major companies are ditching them? As others here have said fir driving just a short distance from home fine but as a general go any distance vehicle they are not suitable.

If EVs are an inferior product, then why would the EU want to take action against Chinese automakers and why would the US want to encourage more plants in the US? Just let it die a natural death as market economies will determine what’s best for the consumer.

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

If EVs are an inferior product, then why would the EU want to take action against Chinese automakers and why would the US want to encourage more plants in the US? Just let it die a natural death as market economies will determine what’s best for the consumer.

Yep ... I wouldn't waste my time looking at another non Chinese car.  Owned USA built, JP built, JP badge built in USA & TH, and I'm sticking with CH badged whether built in TH, though prefer built in CH.

 

Can't really say I'm surprised the quality & workmanship is that much better from CH badged or built.  But after 45 years of mediocre quality, prior to CH cars, think I'll stick with CH here on out.

[Gweiloman]

Discuss

[talahtnut]

Be prepared to get locked out of your EV in 2030 if you have a bad social credit score,

or eat a steak [Co2 emissions] in your 15 minute city.

[Gweiloman]

1 minute ago, talahtnut said:

Be prepared to get locked out of your EV in 2030 if you have a bad social credit score,

or eat a steak [Co2 emissions] in your 15 minute city.

You mean ICEVs don’t have remote locking functions? And that you can’t turn on the aircon to cool it down before reaching your car? How primitive.

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Be prepared to get locked out of your EV in 2030 if you have a bad social credit score,

or eat a steak [Co2 emissions] in your 15 minute city.

Oh wow, yeah, thanks for the warning!!

You people are hilarious.

[Photoguy21]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

If EVs are an inferior product, then why would the EU want to take action against Chinese automakers and why would the US want to encourage more plants in the US? Just let it die a natural death as market economies will determine what’s best for the consumer.

And why would the manufacturers decide to stop producing them? Toyota and GM to name just 2 have made those statements. Could it be that EV's are not such a good option for a company that needs to make a profit or are these companies just too stupid to understand how good EV's are?

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

And why would the manufacturers decide to stop producing them? Toyota and GM to name just 2 have made those statements. Could it be that EV's are not such a good option for a company that needs to make a profit or are these companies just too stupid to understand how good EV's are?

These companies are just not as good as the Chinese automakers at producing EVs. How difficult is that to understand?