Is this the future for EV cars?

[Photoguy21]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

These companies are just not as good as the Chinese automakers at producing EVs. How difficult is that to understand?

How difficult is it for you to understand they are over hyped. The Chines EV's are all looks and nothing else. A friend of mine lived in China and he tells me the reports on the TV with EV's bursting into flame you wouldn't believe. Having said that China doesn't let all information leave the country. If you like EV's then by all means buy one but I think when you come to change it you wont be as happy. A friend of mine here in Thailand bought an EV from BMW. Changed it after a short time as it was not good.

All you evangelists who go into raptures about EV's good for you. No one say you shouldn't buy one if you want to of course you should, but be realistic about the shortfalls when you decide on one.

I think they look nice but I buy based on engineering not just looks and the Chinese engineering which may be great in another 10 years is currently sadly lacking.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

Be prepared to get locked out of your EV in 2030 if you have a bad social credit score,

or eat a steak [Co2 emissions] in your 15 minute city.

Already happened to me, locked out of EV, though not because of my non existent social credit score, since I'm incognito on the internet.

 

I just happen to lock the hob in the car, w/dog & AC on.  We'll call that 'user error' by some idiot ... oops.

 

Wife, didn't have her hob with her.   So had to get a ride to the house to recover hers, which was too easy, since we leave the house unlocked 

 

Though I did have to squeeze through one of those taller than wider windows, where the pane opens almost in the middle.  Actually easier than using a ladder to go through one of the other unlocked windows.

 

Getting locked out of one's car will be the least of y'all's worries, as getting locked out of your digital financial account will be keeping y'all in compliance.   Coming to a 1st world country sooner than you want.

 

TH & CH Rock ... no worries for hopefully a decade.  Don't think CH will be putting software in their cars to appease western govts, unless mandated to, and probably have an on/off option, like most of the driver assist options.

 

Goes in line with all the other silliness mentioned about EVs, that doesn't involve TH or CH.

[Gweiloman]

49 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

How difficult is it for you to understand they are over hyped. The Chines EV's are all looks and nothing else. A friend of mine lived in China and he tells me the reports on the TV with EV's bursting into flame you wouldn't believe. Having said that China doesn't let all information leave the country. If you like EV's then by all means buy one but I think when you come to change it you wont be as happy. A friend of mine here in Thailand bought an EV from BMW. Changed it after a short time as it was not good.

All you evangelists who go into raptures about EV's good for you. No one say you shouldn't buy one if you want to of course you should, but be realistic about the shortfalls when you decide on one.

I think they look nice but I buy based on engineering not just looks and the Chinese engineering which may be great in another 10 years is currently sadly lacking.

Like @josephbloggs said, you people are hilarious.

 

 I’m assuming you don’t own an EV.. You reckon that they are over hyped and yet those of us who own one thinks they are great vehicles. Who to believe? Someone with first hand experience or someone who has merely relied on hearsay and clickbait videos?

 

There has been quite a few reports and videos of plug in hybrids bursting into flames. That’s true. But your statement about China not letting information leave the country again shows your blinkered and bias views. The one statement you made that I agree with is that BMW EVs are no good. That’s why not one EV owner on this forum has one and why we have Chinese made EVs. Very simply, they are the best at the moment. 
 

Another strange phenomenon is how some of you seem to think EV owners are evangelists. I don’t know of one EV owner who is telling anyone to buy an EV. In fact, we go to great lengths to say that EVs are not suitable for everyone. All we do really is to try and correct some misconceptions for those readers who are doing some research on whether or not an EV will suit them. EVs have shortfalls, just like practically anything else. If unable to charge at home or is absolutely essential to travel 500 kms or more without stopping, then an EV is totally unsuitable.

 

You buy based on engineering. That hardly makes you an expert. Do you think you are smarter than the engineers at BYD, SAIC, Geely? I didn’t think so. And you think Chinese engineering is currently sadly lacking. Well, if so, the western world don’t have to fear China, right? And all the so called achievements are just Chinese propaganda. A la @josephbloggs, you people are hilarious.

[Gweiloman]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Already happened to me, locked out of EV, though not because of my non existent social credit score, since I'm incognito on the internet.

 

I just happen to lock the hob in the car, w/dog & AC on.  We'll call that 'user error' by some idiot ... oops.

 

Wife, didn't have her hob with her.   So had to get a ride to the house to recover hers, which was too easy, since we leave the house unlocked 

 

Though I did have to squeeze through one of those taller than wider windows, where the pane opens almost in the middle.  Actually easier than using a ladder to go through one of the other unlocked windows.

 

Getting locked out of one's car will be the least of y'all's worries, as getting locked out of your digital financial account will be keeping y'all in compliance.   Coming to a 1st world country sooner than you want.

 

TH & CH Rock ... no worries for hopefully a decade.  Don't think CH will be putting software in their cars to appease western govts, unless mandated to, and probably have an on/off option, like most of the driver assist options.

 

Goes in line with all the other silliness mentioned about EVs, that doesn't involve TH or CH.

I. accidentally locked my keys inside my car. I took my Chines made Oppo mobile phone out of my probably Chinese made trousers, connected to my Chinese made Wi-Fi router, opened up my Chinese made car app and unlocked my car at the press of a button. China rocks lol

[billd766]

11 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Not really, I prefer to fly if I’m going any distance, I felt exactly the same way when I drove a noisy, polluting legacy vehicle that so had to waste time filling up every couple of weeks.

 

 

He never claimed every EV can go 500km
 

Sales of EV’s haven’t slumped in Thailand, they are growing every month.

 

 

I don’t think they are more expensive, they are comparable and in some cases cheaper.  The BYD Seal is in the Camry/Accord segment and despite being a vastly superior car, it’s no more expensive.

But how much would the BYD really cost if it was not subsidised?

[Gweiloman]

28 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how much would the BYD really cost if it was not subsidised?

Who knows and who cares? Imo, Toyotas, Mercedes, BMWs, Porsches are overpriced and yet people buy them. The market and manufacturers will find an equilibrium when needed.

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how much would the BYD really cost if it was not subsidised?

If you can't afford an EV, you probably shouldn't buy one ... simple.

Most TH govt incentives are around the 150k mark.

 

Cost now with start <1M:

499k

771k

869k

949k

 

if that's too much, Celerio starts at 338k, and has a range shy of 700 kms, maybe.  Options about ... ENJOY

[kwak250]

18 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

By the way, I’m suitably impressed that you were able to complete a 610  km journey to the beach without having to empty your bladder or to fill your stomach. I couldn’t and wouldn’t want to do that.

Who said I didn't stop?

 

I stopped at a nice restaurant overlooking beautiful rice fields 

 

Thinking about it they didn't have anywhere to plug in a car.

 

Another stop was a a great little noodle shop but that was only a 20 minute stop.

 

Like I have said short little trips are fine especially if you can get out quick in case they start to catch 🔥 

 

[JBChiangRai]

47 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

 

Like I have said short little trips are fine especially if you can get out quick in case they start to catch 🔥 

 

 

Which is statistically more than 10 times more likely in your ICE vehicle.

 

[DavisH]

On 12/31/2023 at 5:14 PM, JensenZ said:

Good talking point... how much would replacement batteries cost for the average EV?

After 8 years, when the warranty has expired, I would wager much more than the total price of the car. Anyone with a EV should sell it well before the warranty expires. Also, technology in EV's is accelerating - cars in 10 years will be much more advanced (range, especially) than the current crop of cars. This is the main reason I would not consider buying an EV within the next 10-15 years. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

This will be my first EV....

https://www.electrichearse.co.uk/

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, DavisH said:

After 8 years, when the warranty has expired, I would wager much more than the total price of the car. Anyone with a EV should sell it well before the warranty expires. Also, technology in EV's is accelerating - cars in 10 years will be much more advanced (range, especially) than the current crop of cars. This is the main reason I would not consider buying an EV within the next 10-15 years. 

I've calculated, our battery pack in our BEV will degrade <5% over the 8 year/180k kms warranty period.  Actually only calculated it to 160k kms, since we average about 20k kms a year.

 

At present, new, has a conservative (2500 cycle) life span of 900k kms.   Don't think the battery pack is going to be an issue with the car's longevity.

 

If I waited 10-15 yrs to buy, pretty sure I'd be dead, and miss out on the extra performance, comfort & savings I'm experiencing now with our BEV.

Edited January 1 by KhunLA

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, DavisH said:

After 8 years, when the warranty has expired, I would wager much more than the total price of the car. Anyone with a EV should sell it well before the warranty expires. Also, technology in EV's is accelerating - cars in 10 years will be much more advanced (range, especially) than the current crop of cars. This is the main reason I would not consider buying an EV within the next 10-15 years. 

Based on this reasoning, you should not purchase anything as the technology will be better next year and the year after that. Except for ICEVs of course, as it has reached the pinnacle of its technology.

 

Who knows, in 10 years we may be able to teleport with the help of Scottie and cars won’t even be needed anymore.

[kwak250]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I've calculated, our battery pack in our BEV will degrade <5% over the 8 year/180k kms warranty period.  Actually only calculated it to 160k kms, since we average about 20k kms a year.

 

At present, new, has a conservative (2500 cycle) life span of 900k kms.   Don't think the battery pack is going to be an issue with the car's longevity.

 

If I waited 10-15 yrs to buy, pretty sure I'd be dead, and miss out on the extra performance, comfort & savings I'm experiencing now with our BEV.

To be fair this is probably the best post on here .

I can see for you this is ideal and as others have mentioned they are not for everyone but Phev would probably suit most people and i can see you can save money .

Not ready to change yet but you make a good point

[BenStark]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I've calculated, our battery pack in our BEV will degrade <5% over the 8 year/180k kms warranty period. 

 

Did you use a calculator or a crystal ball to make that calculation 8 years into the future?

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

Did you use a calculator or a crystal ball to make that calculation 8 years into the future?

 

There are lots of published reports about battery longevity, 20 years seems to be the average (Chevy & Nissan Leaf's excepted as they didn't have liquid cooling).

[BenStark]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

There are lots of published reports about battery longevity, 20 years seems to be the average (Chevy & Nissan Leaf's excepted as they didn't have liquid cooling).

 

 

Hmm, I didn't know that there were any liquid cooled EV batteries yet that have been in use even half that time.

 

So, it must be crystal ball

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

 

Hmm, I didn't know that there were any liquid cooled EV batteries yet that have been in use even half that time.

 

So, it must be crystal ball

 

Tesla

 

Lots of studies

[BenStark]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Tesla

 

Lots of studies

 

Tesla introduced the liquid cooling system in 2015, and only patented it in 2018, so i guess that is the year they started effectively using it.

 

 

[josephbloggs]

20 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

And why would the manufacturers decide to stop producing them? Toyota and GM to name just 2 have made those statements. Could it be that EV's are not such a good option for a company that needs to make a profit or are these companies just too stupid to understand how good EV's are?

Here you go again. You already said this before and I asked you to post a link to the statement that they are stopping EV manufacturing. I also posted a detailed explanation of what these companies are doing and why - and guess what, they are not stopping production.

Maybe you missed it so here it is again:
 

Once more I'll ask you to post a link or back up you statement. It is simply not true.

And once again I expect you'll fail to do so and will probably post the same lie again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. Yawn.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, BenStark said:

 

Tesla introduced the liquid cooling system in 2015, and only patented it in 2018, so i guess that is the year they started effectively using it.

 

 

Tesla have had liquid cooling long before that, I think you’re confusing the date of their introduction of the 8 port Nikolai Tesla one way valve invention with 0 moving parts.

[Gweiloman]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Here you go again. You already said this before and I asked you to post a link to the statement that they are stopping EV manufacturing. I also posted a detailed explanation of what these companies are doing and why - and guess what, they are not stopping production.

Maybe you missed it so here it is again:
 

Once more I'll ask you to post a link or back up you statement. It is simply not true.

And once again I expect you'll fail to do so and will probably post the same lie again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. Yawn.

To be fair, I believe that Ford has announced that they are stopping EV production as well as basic models and focus only on premium models. Apparently their strategy is profit per vehicle sold and not absolute sales.

 

What I would like to address is the certainty that anti EVers have that there is no future. Private investment firms/banks such as Blackstone are pumping in hundreds of millions, investing in charging infrastructure. I don’t think they would do that unless they believe they will get a return on their investment. I also think that I trust their judgment about the future of the EV industry a bit more than that of some retirees in Thailand.

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Here you go again. You already said this before and I asked you to post a link to the statement that they are stopping EV manufacturing. I also posted a detailed explanation of what these companies are doing and why - and guess what, they are not stopping production.

Maybe you missed it so here it is again:
 

Once more I'll ask you to post a link or back up your statement. It is simply not true.

And once again I expect you'll fail to do so and will probably post the same lie again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. Yawn.

 

The failure of posters like @Photoguy21 and others to back up their statements with links (as per forum rules) is very frustrating. And they just keep repeating the same baseless lies even after being challenged.

I don't own an EV and follow these threads to learn about them, the pros and cons and real world experience. All I get from the EV owners is reasoned and realistic debate: freely admitting the cons of EV ownership and openly stating why they are not suitable for everyone, but also pointing out the benefits and sharing their experience of ownership of a period of (in many cases) years - it's very useful and interesting.

All I see from the anti EV brigade is lies, misinformation given as fact, and anti Chinese propaganda. No research, closed minds, no informed debate. I would love to be involved in some reasonable discourse as it would help me learn and would help inform my next car purchase decision. But every single time they fail to deliver anything........which tells me everything.

Donald Trump said in a speech that EVs need to be charged every 15 minutes. I guess these posters get their information form people like him. Says it all.

Got ay links? Care to comment? @Photoguy21

[josephbloggs]

16 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

To be fair, I believe that Ford has announced that they are stopping EV production as well as basic models and focus only on premium models. Apparently their strategy is profit per vehicle sold and not absolute sales.

 

What I would like to address is the certainty that anti EVers have that there is no future. Private investment firms/banks such as Blackstone are pumping in hundreds of millions, investing in charging infrastructure. I don’t think they would do that unless they believe they will get a return on their investment. I also think that I trust their judgment about the future of the EV industry a bit more than that of some retirees in Thailand.

Yeah, Ford are slowing production as they have massive union and production issues and can't make a profit from EVs. They need to sort these (if they can) but are committed to an EV future - they haven't just given up because EVs are not the future as people here have stated (people who read headlines but not articles).

Just another shoddy and complacent old legacy brand that could not adapt with the times and hoped the EV thing would go away if they closed their eyes for long enough. Now they have realised it isn't going away they are too far behind to catch up, and they are stuck with a highly unionised workforce that means they just can't compete with the companies who innovated and disrupted.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-withdraws-2023-forecast-warns-ev-results-2023-10-26/

Edited January 2 by josephbloggs

[BenStark]

54 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Tesla have had liquid cooling long before that, I think you’re confusing the date of their introduction of the 8 port Nikolai Tesla one way valve invention with 0 moving parts.

 

https://energy5.com/tesla-liquid-cooled-battery-system-innovation-or-overkill

What is Tesla’s Liquid-Cooled Battery System?

Tesla’s liquid-cooled battery system was introduced in 2015 and consists of a series of liquid-filled channels that run through the battery pack. These channels help to keep the battery at the optimal temperature,

[josephbloggs]

19 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I. accidentally locked my keys inside my car. I took my Chines made Oppo mobile phone out of my probably Chinese made trousers, connected to my Chinese made Wi-Fi router, opened up my Chinese made car app and unlocked my car at the press of a button. China rocks lol

 

20 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Already happened to me, locked out of EV, though not because of my non existent social credit score, since I'm incognito on the internet.

 

I just happen to lock the hob in the car, w/dog & AC on.  We'll call that 'user error' by some idiot ... oops.

 

Wife, didn't have her hob with her.   So had to get a ride to the house to recover hers, which was too easy, since we leave the house unlocked 

 

Though I did have to squeeze through one of those taller than wider windows, where the pane opens almost in the middle.  Actually easier than using a ladder to go through one of the other unlocked windows.

 

Getting locked out of one's car will be the least of y'all's worries, as getting locked out of your digital financial account will be keeping y'all in compliance.   Coming to a 1st world country sooner than you want.

 

TH & CH Rock ... no worries for hopefully a decade.  Don't think CH will be putting software in their cars to appease western govts, unless mandated to, and probably have an on/off option, like most of the driver assist options.

 

Goes in line with all the other silliness mentioned about EVs, that doesn't involve TH or CH.

I am surprised you can lock your hob/key in there. I haven't had a car that allowed that to happen for well over 10 years. Current Honda HR-V (7-8 years old) and Volvo XC-40 (four years old) don't allow the doors to lock if the key fob is inside. My car prior to the Volvo didn't allow it either and I had that for around 7-8 years. Weird that a modern car lets you do that, I wonder why?

Edited January 2 by josephbloggs

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

 

I am surprised you can lock your hob/key in there. I haven't had a car that allowed that to happen for well over 10 years. Current Honda HR-V (7-8 years old) and Volvo XC-40 (four years old) don't allow the doors to lock if the key fob is inside. My car prior to the Volvo didn't allow it either and I had that for around 7-8 years. Weird that a modern car lets you do that, I wonder why?

Took me a while to figure out how to do it.   Have to lock the door, from outside, using lock button on the door (car thinks I'm still in it), then power the window back up.  Now we take the dog where ever, and she sits in AC, while we eat, or shop.

 

I mistakenly left the hob in as I hopped out real fast at 7-11.  Something you only do once, hopefully.

 

Luckily we weren't out of town, although if so, she'd have hers w/her.   

 

For some reason (probably user error), I couldn't get the MG app to open it, as she's done it before.  She was in the hospital, down the road a bit, so she couldn't do it.  I never bother with the app, so don't know what I was doing wrong, as it accepted the pin, just didn't accept the command.  Might even be a safety feature, if hob in car, and locked from within, as why would you need to open w/app, if you're in the car.

 

Because you're an idiot ... guess they didn't think of that one.

Edited January 2 by KhunLA

[Gweiloman]

56 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

 

I am surprised you can lock your hob/key in there. I haven't had a car that allowed that to happen for well over 10 years. Current Honda HR-V (7-8 years old) and Volvo XC-40 (four years old) don't allow the doors to lock if the key fob is inside. My car prior to the Volvo didn't allow it either and I had that for around 7-8 years. Weird that a modern car lets you do that, I wonder why?

Actually in my case, I locked the door with my app. Reason I did that was because I wanted to fold the wing mirrors but was too lazy to get in the car and start it up to fold the mirrors and get out of the car.
 

Another time, I tried locking the door by pressing the lock button on the door with my key in my pocket but it wouldn’t lock because my spare key was in the car. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, BenStark said:

 

https://energy5.com/tesla-liquid-cooled-battery-system-innovation-or-overkill

What is Tesla’s Liquid-Cooled Battery System?

Tesla’s liquid-cooled battery system was introduced in 2015 and consists of a series of liquid-filled channels that run through the battery pack. These channels help to keep the battery at the optimal temperature,

 

That cooling system was introduced in 2015, prior to that the Model S had a liquid cooling system from the "get go" in 2012.  It's a similar system to that used by BYD where liquid coolant is used to cool the battery pack, but not inside the battery pack. Post 2015 the liquid circulates inside the battery pack and it is an inert liquid (ethylene glycol) and the battery internally is not electrically insulated.  Tesla hold a patent on their newer 2015 system.

[Photoguy21]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:23 PM, josephbloggs said:

Here you go again. You already said this before and I asked you to post a link to the statement that they are stopping EV manufacturing. I also posted a detailed explanation of what these companies are doing and why - and guess what, they are not stopping production.

Maybe you missed it so here it is again:
 

Once more I'll ask you to post a link or back up you statement. It is simply not true.

And once again I expect you'll fail to do so and will probably post the same lie again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. Yawn.

Maybe you didnt understand that nobody wants them. In Thailand they are a fad nothing more