11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Right. Professional pollsters don't understand statistics or just make their selections up. You've got nothing

I do have something, as pointed out numerous times on numerous threads.

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

That's why it's best to look at their track record. And given that the polls seem to unanimously show Brexit is unpopular, your point seems untenable.

 

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

 

You actually have less than nothing this time. 

 

What the polls show have nothing really to do with what I said. 

10 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Are you suggesting that Brexit has been in any way positive for the UK?

 

Ask all the people whose wages have jumped massively since Brexit

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Most articles in Wikipedia are rich in footnotes and links. It's clear why you don't read it.

Like you read it. 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Most articles in Wikipedia are rich in footnotes and links. It's clear why you don't read it.

I have never said they are not.

 

I merely pointed out Wikipedia itself is not  a reliable source. As us confirmed by most educational institutions banning students from citing Wikipedia in their work.

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

The poll has nothing to do with the actual impact of Brexit. It only intends/pretends to show what the public's perception of what the impact of Brexit has been. How is the public's perception influenced? As often as not by a newspaper poll of public perception. 

Well, your first sentence makes a fair point. Just like in the US where the public is unhappy about the economy even though it's performing very strongly. But polls aren't done to establish any facts except about what the people polled perceive and/or what they intend to do. And given that the polls are unanimous for more than 2 years. one would have to posit a conspiracy to maintain that the results have been skewed on purpose.

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You actually have less than nothing this time. 

 

What the polls show have nothing really to do with what I said. 

As per usual, no analysis, no logic, no reason employed. Just an unbacked claim.

Edited January 1, 20242 yr by placeholder

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Like you read it. 

More emptiness.

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I have never said they are not.

 

I merely pointed out Wikipedia itself is not  a reliable source. As us confirmed by most educational institutions banning students from citing Wikipedia in their work.

Do you think these institutions would say the same about the links I provided? Wikipedia is a very useful source of information. It just shouldn't be used uncritically. Do you think the links I've provided are somehow tainted by having been posted in Wikipedia?

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

"A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK leaving the EU single market and customs union."

Only war with France/Germany would stop the flow of illegal boat people crossing the channel.

Brexit was the first step.

 

Only war with France/Germany will stop the EU from economically punishing the UK, for leaving the united Europe under German rule.

The EU can't afford Brexit to be a success, else other members will leave.

 

These are the truths, but don't blame me, I was happy with Germany being in charge of the UK.

I didn't want Brexit!

Just now, placeholder said:

Do you think the links I've provided are somehow tainted by having been posted in Wikipedia?

No. I've never said that.

 

I don't understand why you don't post from source. 

 

To busy accusing people of having nothing, I guess.

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. I've never said that.

 

I don't understand why you don't post from source. 

 

To busy accusing people of having nothing, I guess.

But once I did post from the sources, you ignored them. So I assumed you thought they were tainted. So you accept them as valid, then?

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Only war with France/Germany would stop the flow of illegal boat people crossing the channel.

Brexit was the first step.

 

Only war with France/Germany will stop the EU from economically punishing the UK, for leaving the united Europe under German rule.

The EU can't afford Brexit to be a success, else other members will leave.

 

These are the truths, but don't blame me, I was happy with Germany being in charge of the UK.

I didn't want Brexit!

Typical post in defense of Brexit. The UK chose not to be part of the Federation. Despite the fact they it still enjoys considerable privileges that other nations don't, Brexit defenders still insist on additional privileges. 

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Just over 2000 polled.

 

Not a clear majority of Britons.

 

A majority of those polled, by the Guardian, at an unknown location, of an unknown age, background.........the list goes on.

 

To get a 95% chance of being within 5% of the right answer, they'd need to poll 385 random people in a population of 67 million.  That's just the way statistics work...  And the people who do those surveys know how to reach out to "random people".  Whether they do or not, I don't claim to know.

 

https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/sample-size-calculator/

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

It's not.

I'm wondering why you did not link to the sources cited. That would make your claims more plausible.

take your tinfoil hat off and just walk off the edge of the world, why not?

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, your first sentence makes a fair point. Just like in the US where the public is unhappy about the economy even though it's performing very strongly.

My point had nothing to do with how right or wrong the people's perception is.  

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But polls aren't done to establish any facts except about what the people polled perceive and/or what they intend to do.

Polls that are presented to the public are never done to establish facts. They may establish facts, but only incidentally. Someone has paid for a poll, and they want that information put before the public to influence the public. 

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And given that the polls are unanimous for more than 2 years. one would have to posit a conspiracy to maintain that the results have been skewed on purpose.

 

Why are you claiming the polls have been unanimous for two years, and what is that based on? 

 

I have never said the results have been skewed have I? 

 

 

2 minutes ago, isaanistical said:

take your tinfoil hat off and just walk off the edge of the world, why not?

I don't have a tinfoil hat.

 

The world is round. Can't walk off.

 

Other than that, your post makes perfect sense.

44 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As per usual, no analysis, no logic, no reason employed. Just an unbacked claim.

You responded to my post with something (this time a graph) that did not in any way address what I said. What is analysis or logic is needed? What about my claim might require backing? I'm supposed to find a "source" proving that your response did not address what I said? 

 

So, rather than explaining how in fact the graph did address what I said, which we both know you cannot do, you attack me. 

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

I could quite easily do a poll and get opposite answers. 

 

Those taking out opinion polls carefully choose thier audience. That way they get the answers they want.

 

I believe your link showed a poll of 2132. That's just over 2000.

 

Citing Wikipedia is just plain silly.

 

Those taking out opinion polls carefully choose their audience.

 

Seriously? You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Polling/research companies usually do what is called a randomly selected sample. ‘Random’ being the key word here. Which is how they are able to draw conclusions for a populations as a whole. Statistics 101, basically.
 

I know, since I’ve been doing questionnaires and polls for over 40 years. If you want to be independent and neutral, this is the way to go: random sampling. I have no reason to assume that Opinium is biased in any way.

42 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Typical post in defense of Brexit. The UK chose not to be part of the Federation. Despite the fact they it still enjoys considerable privileges that other nations don't, Brexit defenders still insist on additional privileges. 

Do you have anything that support this? 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

My point had nothing to do with how right or wrong the people's perception is.  

Polls that are presented to the public are never done to establish facts. They may establish facts, but only incidentally. Someone has paid for a poll, and they want that information put before the public to influence the public. 

Do you read what you write?

"The poll has nothing to do with the actual impact of Brexit. It only intends/pretends to show what the public's perception of what the impact of Brexit has been."

And you make this ridiculous generalization without offering any evidence. In fact, if polls were faking it, there would be no relation between the actual results of elections and what polls predicted. Please share with us the evidence that poll results are bought and paid for. More on this below.

5 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

 

Those taking out opinion polls carefully choose their audience.

 

Seriously? You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Polling/research companies usually do what is called a randomly selected sample. ‘Random’ being the key word here. Which is how they are able to draw conclusions for a populations as a whole. Statistics 101, basically.
 

I know, since I’ve been doing questionnaires and polls for over 40 years. If you want to be independent and neutral, this is the way to go: random sampling. I have no reason to assume that Opinium is biased in any way.

You've been doing questionnaires for 40 years. That's great.

 

Now. You said "usually". 

5 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

 

Those taking out opinion polls carefully choose their audience.

 

Seriously? You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Polling/research companies usually do what is called a randomly selected sample. ‘Random’ being the key word here. Which is how they are able to draw conclusions for a populations as a whole. Statistics 101, basically.
 

I know, since I’ve been doing questionnaires and polls for over 40 years. If you want to be independent and neutral, this is the way to go: random sampling. I have no reason to assume that Opinium is biased in any way.

What aspect of the business were you in? 

What percentage of your product was for public consumption? 

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

 

Why are you claiming the polls have been unanimous for two years, and what is that based on? 

 

I have never said the results have been skewed have I? 

For your first question, refer to the third post from the bottom of page 1.

On the one hand, you accuse pollsters of giving the answers the people who pay for them want, but on the other you say that pollsters don't skew the results. Do you understand what "skew" means?

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Just over 2000 polled.

 

Not a clear majority of Britons.

 

A majority of those polled, by the Guardian, at an unknown location, of an unknown age, background.........the list goes on.

Not polled by the Guardian.

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Those taking out opinion polls carefully choose thier audience. That way they get the answers they want.

They also phrase the questions to get the answer they want.

I doubt there's been any unbiased opinion polls in the past 80 years.

 

Edited January 1, 20242 yr by BritManToo

What is new? For that matter the EU also fails, merely on its citizens.

EU ruling says take in "refugees"and they come with the thousands and who is paying? The citizens.

In "my country" we dont have houses and citizens are on waiting lists for many years and now the "refugees" are even above own citizens for houses. Thanks to EU.

UK has to decide self, but governments can be a pita as well. Our last governments were a pita aswel and it looks like it is to continu however now with other main party.

It is the global system which is out of control with way too many people on this earth. Wait for next virus.

 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you have anything that support this? 

 

The EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) , which provisionally entered into force on 1 January 2021, provides for zero tariffs and zero quotas on all trade of EU and UK goods that comply with the appropriate rules of origin. Rules of origin are an important aspect of any free trade agreement such as the TCA.

https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/customs-4/international-affairs/third-countries/united-kingdom_en#:~:text=The EU-UK Trade and,agreement such as the TCA.

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you have anything that support this? 

Tariffs on electric vehicles avoided as UK and EU extend trade rules
The UK and EU have agreed to extend trade rules on electric vehicles until the end of 2026 to keep costs down for manufacturers and consumers, the Prime Minister has announced today (Thursday 21 December).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tariffs-on-electric-vehicles-avoided-as-uk-and-eu-extend-trade-rules#:~:text=Press release-,Tariffs on electric vehicles avoided as UK and EU extend,today (Thursday 21 December).

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What aspect of the business were you in? 

What percentage of your product was for public consumption? 

Government.

100%.