Buy a condo to Airbnb - is it really profitable?

[steven100]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:09 PM, JoseThailand said:

First of all. Don't need to tell me that Airbnb is technically illegal in Thailand! I kinda know that.

 

I wonder if it's really that profitable to buy a condo in Thailand to Airbnb it, considering the current property prices. The ROI seems not to be very high. There are plenty of Airbnbs for 1000 baht or under, which makes it hard to make a real profit. Thailand is known for it's cheap accommodations, and the only way to make good money here is to aim at a higher-end segment. But again, what would be ROI for a higher-end condo? In my opinion, there are much better options around the world (or even within South East Asia) to invest in the Airbnb business. For example, Vietnam, where Airbnb short-term rentals are more expensive than in Thailand, while property prices may be lower.

 

you answered your own question. 

[steven100]

no one in their right mind would want to live within 10 miles of a AirBnb

[itsari]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:48 PM, JoseThailand said:

 

In motorbike rental business ROI is 50-100%. Of course there are some expenses, but still it's so much better than the meager 6%

Huge risk with motorcycle hire . No comparison to property rental.

[itsari]

19 minutes ago, steven100 said:

no one in their right mind would want to live within 10 miles of a AirBnb

That is the most rediculous statement I have read for some time.

Sorry to mention Steven

[steven100]

1 minute ago, itsari said:

That is the most rediculous statement I have read for some time.

Sorry to mention Steven

 

would you want to live near an AirBnb ....   with renters tromping in & out all week and parties and whatever else  ? 

 

I sure as hell wouldn't ...   

[bigt3116]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:43 PM, JoseThailand said:

As for the "illegality", there is an obvious solution. Make a 1-month contract with every guest with a clause allowing early cancellation.

 

Please explain how that 'obvious' solution works.

 

Renter 1; July 1 -July 7 (contract for July 1 -31) 

 

Renter 2; July 10 - July 17 (contract July 10- August 10) This renter books on the 3rd July, how can you take the booking as you are already committed to the end of July. Unless of course you are trying to circumvent the law. 

 

Overlapping contracts, the only thing obvious about your plan is its absolute stupidity as a way to get around the law.

 

So easy to see through it is painful.

[itsari]

8 minutes ago, steven100 said:

 

would you want to live near an AirBnb ....   with renters tromping in & out all week and parties and whatever else  ? 

 

I sure as hell wouldn't ...   

I live amongst five listings on Airbnb for the past five years and not one of the guests has caused any disruption regarding noise or walking in and out . 

We had one complaint from a neighbour about a young eight year old Chinese boy who was staying with his parents in one of the listings urinating in there large garden . The neighbour said none of our children would do such a thing . The boy was actually a very likeable child that I will always remember . The famaily were our guests for around three months due to the problems with covid rules for  returning home .

 

[ChipButty]

15 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Please explain how that 'obvious' solution works.

 

Renter 1; July 1 -July 7 (contract for July 1 -31) 

 

Renter 2; July 10 - July 17 (contract July 10- August 10) This renter books on the 3rd July, how can you take the booking as you are already committed to the end of July. Unless of course you are trying to circumvent the law. 

 

Overlapping contracts, the only thing obvious about your plan is its absolute stupidity as a way to get around the law.

 

So easy to see through it is painful.

If it was the immigration checking they would only need to look at the booking conformation from Airbnb, 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

I live amongst five listings on Airbnb for the past five years and not one of the guests has caused any disruption regarding noise or walking in and out . 

We had one complaint from a neighbour about a young eight year old Chinese boy who was staying with his parents in one of the listings urinating in there large garden . The neighbour said none of our children would do such a thing . The boy was actually a very likeable child that I will always remember . The famaily were our guests for around three months due to the problems with covid rules for  returning home .

 

        You have been lucky.  For many others, that is not the case.  My spouse and I lived at two different new projects of more than 1000 units.  Hundreds of those units, not five, were being illegally rented short-term.  The issue was not just hearing rowdy vacationers all the time.  It was also the lobby always crowded with people and luggage everywhere while these illegal renters waited for the person to arrive to check them in.   

      It was the elevator opening and you couldn't get on because it, too, was every day filled with the illegal renters and all their luggage taking all the space.   It was lots of ill-behaved illegal renters at the pool disregarding the condo rules and doing things like drinking beers in glass bottles while in the pool.   It was illegal renters overwhelming the condo staff with problems with their units or other concerns, expecting the condo staff to function like hotel staff.  (I'm out of toilet paper!  There's a light bulb burned out!  How do I use the washing machine, internet, tv controls?  Etc, etc.)  It was illegal renters leaving their garbage in the hallway bcause they didn't know, or care, where the trash room was--and, surely, 'hotel' staff will be along to pick it up.  It was seeing the wear and tear in the condo public spaces that were not designed for large numbers of people moving in and out every day, and not staffed by an army of 'hotel' maintenance workers to repair the damage and keep everything in tiptop shape.

     All of that, and more, each and every day with no break, created the very unpleasant experience of living in a too busy 'hotel', and a 'hotel' not designed well enough,and without enough 'hotel' staff to handle all of the guests.  I like hotels but I don't want to live in one full-time.  

    And, sometimes, neither do full-time renters.  We owned a rental unit at a third large project, bought new when the project first opened.  We had a great tenant the first year we owned, corporate rental, never a problem, rent paid like clockwork every month.  Dream tenant.  As the year was ending the tenant informed us he would be moving out.  Reason? He, too, did not like living in a busy hotel.  Seeing the writing on the wall, we sold the condo.

[itsari]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

        You have been lucky.  For many others, that is not the case.  My spouse and I lived at two different new projects of more than 1000 units.  Hundreds of those units, not five, were being illegally rented short-term.  The issue was not just hearing rowdy vacationers all the time.  It was also the lobby always crowded with people and luggage everywhere while these illegal renters waited for the person to arrive to check them in.   

      It was the elevator opening and you couldn't get on because it, too, was every day filled with the illegal renters and all their luggage taking all the space.   It was lots of ill-behaved illegal renters at the pool disregarding the condo rules and doing things like drinking beers in glass bottles while in the pool.   It was illegal renters overwhelming the condo staff with problems with their units or other concerns, expecting the condo staff to function like hotel staff.  (I'm out of toilet paper!  There's a light bulb burned out!  How do I use the washing machine, internet, tv controls?  Etc, etc.)  It was illegal renters leaving their garbage in the hallway bcause they didn't know, or care, where the trash room was--and, surely, 'hotel' staff will be along to pick it up.  It was seeing the wear and tear in the condo public spaces that were not designed for large numbers of people moving in and out every day, and not staffed by an army of 'hotel' maintenance workers to repair the damage and keep everything in tiptop shape.

     All of that, and more, each and every day with no break, created the very unpleasant experience of living in a too busy 'hotel', and a 'hotel' not designed well enough,and without enough 'hotel' staff to handle all of the guests.  I like hotels but I don't want to live in one full-time.  

    And, sometimes, neither do full-time renters.  We owned a rental unit at a third large project, bought new when the project first opened.  We had a great tenant the first year we owned, corporate rental, never a problem, rent paid like clockwork every month.  Dream tenant.  As the year was ending the tenant informed us he would be moving out.  Reason? He, too, did not like living in a busy hotel.  Seeing the writing on the wall, we sold the condo.

Although we have not had disruptive noisy guests over the 5 years we have had people asking questions like you have mentioned . 

I understand your annoyance especially when you lost a quality tenant.

[patman30]

condo, i would say NO
too much competition, too many condos for rent cheap
A pool villa, YES
these can fetch very decent prices on weekends especially in easily accessible locations
 

[newnative]

11 minutes ago, itsari said:

Although we have not had disruptive noisy guests over the 5 years we have had people asking questions like you have mentioned . 

I understand your annoyance especially when you lost a quality tenant.

I was more annoyed by having to move twice myself.

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

        You have been lucky.  For many others, that is not the case.  My spouse and I lived at two different new projects of more than 1000 units.  Hundreds of those units, not five, were being illegally rented short-term.  The issue was not just hearing rowdy vacationers all the time.  It was also the lobby always crowded with people and luggage everywhere while these illegal renters waited for the person to arrive to check them in.   

      It was the elevator opening and you couldn't get on because it, too, was every day filled with the illegal renters and all their luggage taking all the space.   It was lots of ill-behaved illegal renters at the pool disregarding the condo rules and doing things like drinking beers in glass bottles while in the pool.   It was illegal renters overwhelming the condo staff with problems with their units or other concerns, expecting the condo staff to function like hotel staff.  (I'm out of toilet paper!  There's a light bulb burned out!  How do I use the washing machine, internet, tv controls?  Etc, etc.)  It was illegal renters leaving their garbage in the hallway bcause they didn't know, or care, where the trash room was--and, surely, 'hotel' staff will be along to pick it up.  It was seeing the wear and tear in the condo public spaces that were not designed for large numbers of people moving in and out every day, and not staffed by an army of 'hotel' maintenance workers to repair the damage and keep everything in tiptop shape.

     All of that, and more, each and every day with no break, created the very unpleasant experience of living in a too busy 'hotel', and a 'hotel' not designed well enough,and without enough 'hotel' staff to handle all of the guests.  I like hotels but I don't want to live in one full-time.  

    And, sometimes, neither do full-time renters.  We owned a rental unit at a third large project, bought new when the project first opened.  We had a great tenant the first year we owned, corporate rental, never a problem, rent paid like clockwork every month.  Dream tenant.  As the year was ending the tenant informed us he would be moving out.  Reason? He, too, did not like living in a busy hotel.  Seeing the writing on the wall, we sold the condo.

Security: A hotel that size has plainclothes security prowling around for people there for the wrong reasons/doing things they shouldn't. We have people living in our condo who don't liver here - we have no idea who they are i.e. no passport copy at reception, they don't have key cards and come and go via the fire escapes and following behind people at the keycard security doors - they have it down to a fine art, standing there just outside reception looking at their phones until someone goes through and then quickly following on, rather than standing/sitting in reception looking at their phones but looking a bit obvious.

 

Hygiene: Constant exposure to other countries diseases in the lifts and common areas.

Edited July 26 by mokwit

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Security: A hotel that size has plainclothes security prowling around for people there for the wrong reasons/doing things they shouldn't. We have people living in our condo who don't liver here - we have no idea who they are i.e. no passport copy at reception, they don't have key cards and come and go via the fire escapes and following behind people at the keycard security doors - they have it down to a fine art, standing there just outside reception looking at their phones until someone goes through and then quickly following on, rather than standing/sitting in reception looking at their phones but looking a bit obvious.

 

Hygiene: Constant exposure to other countries diseases in the lifts and common areas.

Yes, two other negatives with these illegal renters.

[Will B Good]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:09 PM, JoseThailand said:

First of all. Don't need to tell me that Airbnb is technically illegal in Thailand! I kinda know that.

 

I wonder if it's really that profitable to buy a condo in Thailand to Airbnb it, considering the current property prices. The ROI seems not to be very high. There are plenty of Airbnbs for 1000 baht or under, which makes it hard to make a real profit. Thailand is known for it's cheap accommodations, and the only way to make good money here is to aim at a higher-end segment. But again, what would be ROI for a higher-end condo? In my opinion, there are much better options around the world (or even within South East Asia) to invest in the Airbnb business. For example, Vietnam, where Airbnb short-term rentals are more expensive than in Thailand, while property prices may be lower.

 

Even if it were reasonably profitable there has to be an infinite number of less stressful ways to earn a return on your capital.......

..............a bar on soi 6???

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

Yes, two other negatives with these illegal renters.

Missed safety: Jamming fire escape doors open to give access to the lifts from the street, bits of cardboard wedged or lock plates removed to keep them discretely open on other floors - allows going between floors without being on CCTV in the lifts.

 

Using fire escapes as storage areas for merchandise.

 

In fairness my condo has made some progress on these things, but the following on problem is difficult without dedicated security personnel or facial recognition.

 

To me it is an infestation of vermin and should be treated as such. We fumigate the basement to stop brown rats getting a foothold.

[BobBKK]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:09 PM, JoseThailand said:

First of all. Don't need to tell me that Airbnb is technically illegal in Thailand! I kinda know that.

 

I wonder if it's really that profitable to buy a condo in Thailand to Airbnb it, considering the current property prices. The ROI seems not to be very high. There are plenty of Airbnbs for 1000 baht or under, which makes it hard to make a real profit. Thailand is known for it's cheap accommodations, and the only way to make good money here is to aim at a higher-end segment. But again, what would be ROI for a higher-end condo? In my opinion, there are much better options around the world (or even within South East Asia) to invest in the Airbnb business. For example, Vietnam, where Airbnb short-term rentals are more expensive than in Thailand, while property prices may be lower.

 It's not about whether it's technically illegal in Thailand. It's about the condo rules. Many modern condos do not allow it as they don't want customers coming in and out like a hotel. Older condos will, generally, be less strict.

[mokwit]

48 minutes ago, patman30 said:

condo, i would say NO
too much competition, too many condos for rent cheap
A pool villa, YES
these can fetch very decent prices on weekends especially in easily accessible locations
 

Yeah right, music blasting out all night - screw the neighbors we're ON HOLIDAY!.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

Missed safety: Jamming fire escape doors open to give access to the lifts from the street, bits of cardboard wedged or lock plates removed to keep them discretely open on other floors - allows going between floors without being on CCTV in the lifts.

 

Using fire escapes as storage areas for merchandise.

 

In fairness my condo has made some progress on these things, but the following on problem is difficult without dedicated security personnel or facial recognition.

 

To me it is an infestation of vermin and should be treated as such. We fumigate the basement to stop brown rats getting a foothold.

 

God bless our previous juristic.....they were on top of everything.

 

Finger print access, constant guard patrols, CCTV on every floor and every corridor.........leave a parcel out and they were onto you.

 

All for 20k a year.

[BobBKK]

50 minutes ago, patman30 said:

condo, i would say NO
too much competition, too many condos for rent cheap
A pool villa, YES
these can fetch very decent prices on weekends especially in easily accessible locations
 

 I agree I have sold most of my condos and have a share in a pool villa - rented to Chinese @ 70,000 a month.

[patman30]

14 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yeah right, music blasting out all night - screw the neighbors we're ON HOLIDAY!.

even worse if they blast music in a condo "I'm on me holidays"
pool villas on weekends
are more likely to be rented to families or groups of professional people from BKK
who are likely not on their holidays
what they do while at the villa is their business
and not really what you may assume
Do you blast music all night every night when you are on holiday?

Edited July 26 by patman30

[patman30]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 I agree I have sold most of my condos and have a share in a pool villa - rented to Chinese @ 70,000 a month.

Thank you
even long term rental, a pool villa seems a much less riskier choice
Hotels and condo rentals are cheap here

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, patman30 said:

even worse if they blast music in a condo "I'm on me holidays"
pool villas on weekends
are more likely to be rented to families or groups of professional people from BKK
who are likely not on their holidays
what they do while at the villa is their business
and not really what you may assume
Do you blast music all night every night when you are on holiday?

Read some of the posts on this board where people are suffering from pool villas being let out as party houses - if they are making noise what they do while at the villa becomes other people's business- I think groups of Chinese renting for parties are much more common that groups of professionals from Bangkok.

 

 

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

Read some of the posts on this board where people are suffering from pool villas being let out as party houses - if they are making noise what they do while at the villa becomes other people's business- I think groups of Chinese renting for parties are much more common that groups of professionals from Bangkok.

 

 

In the past parties were a big problem on Airbnb, the host/owner can now get shut down and suspended by Airbnb, you as a neighbour have a link on their web site you can report to Airbnb, 

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

In the past parties were a big problem on Airbnb, the host/owner can now get shut down and suspended by Airbnb, you as a neighbour have a link on their web site you can report to Airbnb, 

Thanks for that. Unfortunately it seems a lot of lets are via sites other than AirBnB, including their own in country networks which is what we are up against in our condo - rarely see an actual AirBnB listing - i use the term airbnb to mean short term let.

Edited July 26 by mokwit

[patman30]

Just now, mokwit said:

Read some of the posts on this board where people are suffering from pool villas being let out as party houses - if they are making noise what they do while at the villa becomes other people's business- I think groups of Chinese renting for parties are much more common that groups of professionals from Bangkok.

so you refuse to answer
tell me what to do
and post your unsubstantiated racist opinion. 
i lived next to an airBnB pool villa
mostly it was families with children, usually 2 to 4 families together
so 4-6 adults and a lot of noisy little children enjoying themselves in the pool, which is a pleasure to hear imo
occasionally it was groups of young adults
even the partying young adults did not party all night, most likely as they had jobs to get back too, they would actually stop very early
I never once seen any other nationality apart from Thais stay at that villa. 
FYI, Most Chinese come on holiday here in group tours and stay at hotels.

People do not have to be quiet as a mouse just because you want that.
I bet you demanded others wear face diapers too.

 

 

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

so you refuse to answer
tell me what to do
and post your unsubstantiated racist opinion. 
i lived next to an airBnB pool villa
mostly it was families with children, usually 2 to 4 families together
so 4-6 adults and a lot of noisy little children enjoying themselves in the pool, which is a pleasure to hear imo
occasionally it was groups of young adults
even the partying young adults did not party all night, most likely as they had jobs to get back too, they would actually stop very early
I never once seen any other nationality apart from Thais stay at that villa. 
FYI, Most Chinese come on holiday here in group tours and stay at hotels.

People do not have to be quiet as a mouse just because you want that.
I bet you demanded others wear face diapers too.

 

 

oooh you had to bring "waythitht" into it.  Lucky you, you have not had problems, others have, and specifically mentioned it was Chinese.

[newnative]

22 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 It's not about whether it's technically illegal in Thailand. It's about the condo rules. Many modern condos do not allow it as they don't want customers coming in and out like a hotel. Older condos will, generally, be less strict.

     I don't necessarily think older condos are 'less strict'.  I lived in one older condo project and they had a strict condo policy of requiring rentals of at least 6 months.  I thiink it is more the case that many older condo projects don't lend themselves as easily to daily rentals as newer projects do and, in many cases, it is not as big a problem as a result.   

      Older projects tend to have smaller numbers of units and the units, themselves, are often larger.  Always exceptions, of course.  That project I just mentioned above had less than 200 units and the smallest unit was 64sqm.  These days, 64sqm would often be one of the largest units in a project.

      Many newer projects have 1000 units or more and many of the units are in the 25 to 35sqm range, ideal for use as 'hotel' rooms.  There is a new condo project going up in Pattaya with the entire project being studios of less than 30sqm, except for a single one-bedroom unit on each floor.

     With new projects, an investor can more easily buy multiple units from the get-go and set up boutique 'hotels' within the condo project.  That can be harder to do with older projects, with the units usually already sold.  Should I ever chose to live in a condo again, I'd look for a condo in a likely older project with a smaller number of larger units.

 

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

     I don't necessarily think older condos are 'less strict'.  I lived in one older condo project and they had a strict condo policy of requiring rentals of at least 6 months.  I thiink it is more the case that many older condo projects don't lend themselves as easily to daily rentals as newer projects do and, in many cases, it is not as big a problem as a result.   

      Older projects tend to have smaller numbers of units and the units, themselves, are often larger.  Always exceptions, of course.  That project I just mentioned above had less than 200 units and the smallest unit was 64sqm.  These days, 64sqm would often be one of the largest units in a project.

      Many newer projects have 1000 units or more and many of the units are in the 25 to 35sqm range, ideal for use as 'hotel' rooms.  There is a new condo project going up in Pattaya with the entire project being studios of less than 30sqm, except for a single one-bedroom unit on each floor.

     With new projects, an investor can more easily buy multiple units from the get-go and set up boutique 'hotels' within the condo project.  That can be harder to do with older projects, with the units usually already sold.  Should I ever chose to live in a condo again, I'd look for a condo in a likely older project with a smaller number of larger units.

 

 That is true - older means larger. I have an 89 sq meter, which is considered huge (it is rented out at 30,000). But it has been my experience that older condos are softer on air bnbs - the larger, more modern, small-room condos are better suited to a hotel-like trade.

[newnative]

19 minutes ago, patman30 said:

so you refuse to answer
tell me what to do
and post your unsubstantiated racist opinion. 
i lived next to an airBnB pool villa
mostly it was families with children, usually 2 to 4 families together
so 4-6 adults and a lot of noisy little children enjoying themselves in the pool, which is a pleasure to hear imo
occasionally it was groups of young adults
even the partying young adults did not party all night, most likely as they had jobs to get back too, they would actually stop very early
I never once seen any other nationality apart from Thais stay at that villa. 
FYI, Most Chinese come on holiday here in group tours and stay at hotels.

People do not have to be quiet as a mouse just because you want that.
I bet you demanded others wear face diapers too.

 

 

     FYI, 'most' Chinese are not here in group tours.  Over 60% are traveling independently.   Your experience living near a pool villa may not mirror what others are experiencing.