Any US Social security recipients out there doing direct deposits?

[PumpkinEater]

I had instructed my USA Social Security Admin. to direct deposit my monthly payments into my Thai Bank account for the purpose of Non O (Over 65k) verification, and convenience.

 

I noticed that the funds transfer is shorted about 1500 to 2000 thb monthly. Any one else see this when using the exchange rate calculator?

I talked with my Bank here in Thailand and they gave me a transcript of a transfer. It seems that the SSA issues the funds to USA New Jersey Citi Bank that does the exchange to THB and then transfers to my Thai bank. This is where the funds are being skimmed or exchange rate massaged to their benefit.

I did email FBU in the PH but they are of little use, as they just say check with your bank…

And trying to get through to the US SSA via phone is impossible.

 

Just asking you guys out there if you have the same loss of funds issue? And if you have looked into this matter with Citi bank or SSA in the USA?

 

Cheers.
 

[Mike Lister]

How do you decide its short, what are you comparing against? 

[Mike Lister]

I believe SSc and Citi use an average rate for the period rather than the latest rate on the day the transfer is made. Also, Bangkok Bank charges me about 500 baht for the transfer and that is capped.

[retarius]

I never check it. But I did check my AMEX yesterday, the foreign currency fee is about 10%....I was floored. F^$3 them, I'm not paying those sort of charges. End of story. 

[PeterA]

I have my SS put into a US bank. Then I use Wise to transfer to me here to a Thai bank. Only fees are via Wise.

[Lacessit]

IMO  the OP is a victim of what is called Dynamic Currency Conversion, which is the polite term for daylight robbery.

As another poster has said, deposit into  a US bank, and use WISE to transfer.

[flexomike]

I have been getting mine direct deposited to Bangkok Bank since July of 2016, mine is an ach deposit through Bangkok Bank New York, I get the TT rate for my deposit and the max they take out for the deposit is 500 baht, when I set up my account it was the only bank you could use and no atm card could be issued for it. I am guessing since yours is converted to baht before shipping that you have an IDD account which could have been set up at any major bank in Thailand with an ATM card, my wifes account is with Krung Thai and she has a card. This has worked great for both of us, always on time never an issue. Your problem must be on the US end. I use my account for the monthly income method for Immigration.

 

[Wrwest]

2 hours ago, PeterA said:

I have my SS put into a US bank. Then I use Wise to transfer to me here to a Thai bank. Only fees are via Wise.

Agreed, same here for over a decade.

[Pib]

@PumpkinEater

From you opening post I think you signed up for the International Direct Deposit (IDD) method since you mentioned Citi Bank in the USA where you think your monthly direct deposit started from.  With IDD you can have the funds directed deposited to "any" Thai bank and even to a joint account.  The funds are transferred via the SWIFT system with the very final leg of that transfer occurring via the Thai BAHTNET system which interfaces with the SWIFT system.  The only fee along the way is a Bt100 BAHTNET receiving fee on your Thai bank end.

 

The other possible Direct Deposit method is using a Bangkok Bank special/restricted acct for U.S. govt reoccurring payments like SSA govt pension payments.  Only Bangkok Bank has this ACH receiving capability; no other Thai bank has it.  The U.S. Automated Clearing House (ACH) transfer system is used for this transfer; SWIFT is not used.  The payment goes to the Bangkok Bank New York Branch who relays it to Bangkok Bank in Thailand.   Fees are applied at the NY branch and your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch and these two fees do "not" appear, repeat, do not appear anywhere on your acct statement, passbook, etc., because they are applied/deducted "before" the funds are posted to you Bangkok Bank acct.  This fools a lot of people in thinking no fees were applied along the way but fees were indeed applied by Bangkok Bank.  The two fees are typically $5 or $10 depending on the size of the payments as it flow thru the Bangkok Bank NY branch...and then another fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) on the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank end.  The exchange rate used is the Bangkok Bank "TT Buying Rate"...usually their "opening day/8:30am rate" as the exchange often changes several times during the day.   The payment will be coded at "FTT" (International Transfer) on your Bangkok Bank acct.

 

Assuming you are using the IDD method the exchange rate is determined by the U.S. Treasury/it's IDD contractor bank (Citibank Global right now) several business days before the actual payment.   It is not determined by your receiving Thai bank....it's determined several business days before on the US end as the US Treasury/its IDD contractor converts dollars to baht in order to have baht to make your IDD payment on the 3rd of each month.   That is, THB is transmitted from the US to your Thai bank acct; "not" USD which are then exchanged on the Thai bank end like if using the ACH method.  Now if using the ACH system talked in the previous paragraph the US Treasury sends USD and Bangkok Bank exchanges it using their TT Buying Rate while applying some "hidden" fees.   Additionally, payment via IDD are codes as BAHTNET which typically uses a BTN code on your Thai bank statement and they are not coded as an International Transfer since the BAHTNET system is primarily a domestic transfer system.

 

Regardless of whether you are using the IDD or ACH direct deposit methods it's important you are sure of the "net amount" the SSA sends you....net amount being the amount after taxes, Medicare, whatever deduction is applied.  Over the years I read many posts where people are now sure of the exact net amount sent which complicates in trying to figure out how fees (known and hidden), exchange rates, etc., affected their direct deposit payment.

 

See below post I made on this subject in May 2023...it gives some more details on IDD and ACH direct deposit methods.  And also at the bottom see a 12 month cost comparison from several years ago between ACH and IDD which takes in acct exchange rates and fee used by the two methods.  From a "most baht deposited into your Thai bank acct" standpoint if your net SSA payment is above approx $1,125 you get a few more baht using the ACH method but you'll also have to put up with the Bangkok Bank special/restricted acct rules.  If you net payment is below approx $1,125 then you'' be better off using the IDD method plus you can have the payment sent to "any" Thai bank THB acct (can not be sent to a USD acct) with zero restrictions.

 

 

 

 

IDD and ACH Comparison over a 12 month period

 

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO  the OP is a victim of what is called Dynamic Currency Conversion, which is the polite term for daylight robbery.

As another poster has said, deposit into  a US bank, and use WISE to transfer.

DCC relates to "credit/debit card" exchange rates where a local bank offers you their exchange rate (typically 3 to 6% lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate). 

 

Does not apply to transfers like direct deposit which are being paid via a funds transfer system like SWIFT, ACH, a Wise peer-to-peer system, etc.

[soisanuk]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO  the OP is a victim of what is called Dynamic Currency Conversion, which is the polite term for daylight robbery.

As another poster has said, deposit into  a US bank, and use WISE to transfer.

An alternative is to open a virtual account with Wise which will give you an ACH (Automated Clearing House) number to use for directing Social Security deposits to that account.  When the funds are received in the Wise account (in dollars), you can choose the time you want to have them convert the funds to Thai baht and send to your Thai bank account.

 

If you have a Bangkok Bank account, use the reason - long stay in Thailand - when asked for the reason for the transfer - currently it is the last item in the drop down menu showing the reasons.  This should ensure they use Bangkok Bank as the recipient bank for the transfer rather than sending it through one of their other partner banks (usually Kasikorn).  Bangkok Bank will record it with the FTT code which is used for deposits from a foreign source - beneficial if you are using the 65k+ baht per month method for Retirement Extensions at Thai Immigration.

[The Theory]

19 hours ago, PumpkinEater said:

It seems that the SSA issues the funds to USA New Jersey Citi Bank that does the exchange to THB and then transfers to my Thai bank.

They exchange it before transfer. You need to change your transfer method to bangkok bank pension account ACH transfer. The fund will be transferred in US$ to BANKOK BANK and will be exchanged at BBK rate in Thailand. 

[PumpkinEater]

Hey thanks you’all for the replies.

As I do not think it is an averaging method of exchange since I receive LESS every month rather than more once in a while.

It does add up to around $600 per year loss…with at this time I have no explanation from SS…

 

As I do have a Wise, BKK bank accounts, I think the best thing to do is to change my method of transfer (As I think Citi Bank is skimming).

 

I have a Bangkok Bank account here in TH…how do I set it up in the USA for the transfer?

Will Bangkok Bank open the account in the US for me while I am here in TH?

 

WISE BTY will cost $23/ mo vs. the $50-60 I am now being nicked.

 

Cheers!

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Deleted

 

Edited January 5 by Etaoin Shrdlu

[Kinglizard]

I have considered this option, but currently use WISE to transfer from my US credit union. The fees are reasonable and the transfer takes only a few seconds.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, PumpkinEater said:

Hey thanks you’all for the replies.

As I do not think it is an averaging method of exchange since I receive LESS every month rather than more once in a while.

It does add up to around $600 per year loss…with at this time I have no explanation from SS…

 

 

Do you know the exact "net" amount (i.e.., after all deductions, taxes, etc) which SSA sends you?  That's the first thing you need to be sure of....it you starting point before further calculations can be made.   Say you think you are getting $1600.50 net but actually it's 1590.50, well, you are starting off with an error already making you think some other fees are being charged somewhere.

 

And what specific exchange rate reference/source are you using?  You using some interbank rate, a Wise rate, a Bangkok Bank rate, etc?  You just can't pick any rate....you need to know which specific rate is used for the method you are using to receive the pension.

 

And yes, over the last few months you probably have been receiving slightly less and less each month simply because the USD/THB exchange rate has been slowly going down (i.e., getting worst).

 

 

 

 

[The Theory]

6 hours ago, PumpkinEater said:

I have a Bangkok Bank account here in TH…how do I set it up in the USA for the transfer?

Will Bangkok Bank open the account in the US for me while I am here in TH?

You need to go to a branch (pick one that deals with retirees) and open a direct deposit account (there will be a form to fill). That account will be only for your direct deposit from SS. 
I don't use this method. I use my US bank account.

[thesetat]

I send mine to Bank of America and then do a one day wire transfer which is free. The bank changes the currency to Thai baht automatically and sends that. I never lose more than a few baht to the current exchange rates online. Then when the money arrives to Thailand my local bank only takes out about 1 or 2% as fee. 

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, The Theory said:

You need to go to a branch (pick one that deals with retirees) and open a direct deposit account (there will be a form to fill). That account will be only for your direct deposit from SS. 
I don't use this method. I use my US bank account.

Ummm, sort of! SSc has its own form that must be used and signed by the bank and then returned to Manilla, the bank will keep a copy for its records. When you say a DDA account in Thailand you seem to be talking in terms of US style accounts. Accounts here are mostly passbook savings which are easy enough to open, there aren't banks that deal with retirees but there are good and bad branches. I suggest opening an account at a business branch and definitely not a branch in a shopping mall. 

[retarius]

On the new taxing of international transfers, I was told by two US accountants over here that the US has an agreement signed in 1998 that prevents Thailand from taxing US SS payments. Does anyone know if this is correct?

[riclag]

I have my SS sent to BofA then I have

Charles Schwab withdraw The amount 

I designate . When the funds arrive in my Schwab acct((usually 3-4 days)

I go to the ATM and pull 30k baht at a time .

All fees are free, curtesy of Schwab. 

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, retarius said:

On the new taxing of international transfers, I was told by two US accountants over here that the US has an agreement signed in 1998 that prevents Thailand from taxing US SS payments. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Correct

[The Theory]

There are many BBK branches that are not quite sure what the process is. Ask if they know how it works or find a branch that deals with some farang retirees and ask for US pension direct deposit account. They will guide you. 

[replicant]

16 hours ago, PeterA said:

I have my SS put into a US bank. Then I use Wise to transfer to me here to a Thai bank. Only fees are via Wise.

I've been doing the same thing for many months. Best choice I think. 

[dave s]

It used to be that you had to prove you were a U.S.A. resident to get a "My SSA" account, which was obnoxious as they started deleting pages from their web site because you could just use My SSA (but not if you lived in Thailand!!!!!). There are now 2 ways to set up My SSA from overseas, one of which is tedious but actually works, and their staff were friendly and helpful. Then at any time you can check your exact SSA and Medicare amounts; note that both of these typically get adjusted in January. You may also be able to switch direct deposit of your SSA yourself from here in Thailand.

 

When I retired a while ago, and set up SSA through the Manila service bureau, the best way to get monthly SSA into Thailand appeared to be through Bangkok Bank NYC. I needed to go downtown to their main branch to set up that account and a regular savings account. I prove I am still alive by going to the nearby shopping mall branch and showing my passport and passbooks to the manager whenever I want to transfer some amount from NYC to the savings account (which then has no restrictions). It takes a few minutes. On usually the fourth of the month I get an SMS

 

   Thursday, January 4 15:42 SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTR has transferred THB<amount> (USD<amount> @ 34.31 - THB<amount>) into <account>

 

But Jul 3 probably because of Independence Day, Sep 1 probably because Monday the 4th was Labor Day, and Dec 1 probably because of the long Thai holiday for King Rama IX. Usual arrival between 13:00 and 17:00. The first amount in the SMS should reconcile with the pair of dollar amounts that My SSA tells you, the second amount is BBL converting to baht (XE web site was saying 34.4 on that day), and the third amount is a percentage transfer fee (but THB200 minimum, THB500 maximum). Thai baht exchange rate has been a yo-yo for quite a while.

 

What is best may radically change this year because of the government's new tax on all money brought into Thailand, but still no details on that, so either they are not able to get their act together, or it will be such bad news that they are hiding the facts as long as possible.

 

Edited January 5 by dave s

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 hours ago, PumpkinEater said:

WISE BTY will cost $23/ mo vs. the $50-60 I am now being nicked.

 

If you connect your USA bank to Wise for transfer the fee will be about $8 to $9 

[thailand49]

It isnt SSA, it is the Thai banks.

My brother use to do the same pre planning we set up Wise account to transfer his SS from his US bank to bangkok bank.

If the rate is 34 he gets 34 minus the small ACH fee which still comes out ahead.

Does the income method for years no problems.

[farangkinok]

If you need help from Manila (Philippines), you can write to them using the FBU Inquiry Form at

https://ph.usembassy.gov/services/fbu-inquiry-form/

[Sheryl]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:38 PM, retarius said:

On the new taxing of international transfers, I was told by two US accountants over here that the US has an agreement signed in 1998 that prevents Thailand from taxing US SS payments. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Yes. Correct. 

[scoutman360]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:41 AM, PumpkinEater said:

I have a Bangkok Bank account here in TH…how do I set it up in the USA for the transfer?

Will Bangkok Bank open the account in the US for me while I am here in TH?

 

 

I am surprised there haven't been many responses. I did this about 10 years ago just to see if it would work. Unfortunately I forgot exactly what I did, but it was simple. No need to setup special accounts, etc. I think I just sent an ACH transfer to the NYC branch (using their branch code), but used my Thailand Bangkok Bank account number (the first 3 digits are the branch code, the rest is your acct #). It was that simple. Please don't try it without more conformation. As I said, I can't remember exactly. 

Edited February 14 by scoutman360
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