planning to buying a townhouse in girlfriend's name - usufruct or lease

[john donson]

yes, stupid idea, better rent...

 

but I have some money but no investments and need a new place to live long term

 

I will be paying for the townhouse but I need either a usufruct or lease added directly to the chanote in my name.

 

a lease will be an extra 1.1% of the value of the lease, but as I am already paying for the townhouse, would avoid that extra cost,

 

so is a usufruct a viable idea ?

 

A Thai usufruct is an agreement in which one party confers upon another, full enjoyment of a Thai property. The usufructuary has an obligation to take care of the property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of their own property.

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, john donson said:

yes, stupid idea

'nuff said

 

[Gottfrid]

First, you can not pay for the town house. Your girlfriend must do that.

After I think you wrote wrong, as you state the house will be in your name. You meant your GF´s name as in the headline, right?

The rest seems like it all will work.

[jvs]

Let her buy the property in her name,help her to get a mortgage if you have to.

Then you give her the money to pay the bank each month,look at it if rent.

If things go wrong you can just walk away from it.

Invest your money elsewhere.

[Henryford]

You think the usufruct will help when she moves in her boyfriend and changes the locks?

[stupidfarang]

The old saying here is to invest only what you can afford to lose. All is good until it goes bad and most people on here have experinced that.

[French mate]

I did buy a townhouse to my GF (now wife) using a usufruct (life) agreement 8 years ago.

My experience started at the land office where was with an expat lawer who have acompagny me to do the paperwork. The office (sri racha) was relutent to do it, specialy the for life version. At the end a few thousand bahts brown enveloppe and signing a paper all writte in thai saying that i have nothing to do with the money used to buy the home (no comment) make them accept it.

Later,  i find out that most thai havent ever heard about usufruct and have no idea of what its mean. Although from a legal point of view im the one who have autority on who can stay or not in the home (i can decide to rent it and get the money),  at immigration people dont wanted me to complete myself the paper for my TM30, they say its my GF (at that time) who is the home boss and have to do it and my usufruct was something who have to do only with land office (they didnt understand at all what its was, and wasnt interested to do).

Same story happen for get a yellow book, i couldnt get one without her approbal.

Im actually happy in marriage, but if thing would get sour, its likely that my wife could call police to kick me out of the home, while the law say its me only who have this power.
At the time after i was done with buying the home,  my lawyer say me that  one of his customer who did a ussufruct too got he police called by his wife  to kick him out, but on show of the land deed, they offered him to take away his wife :) 
I have no reason to think he make up the story, but in exterme situation i think its would be all up to luck or good relation one of the partie may have with the local police.

Off course if its turn wrong i could seek justice and utimatly after years an lots of bahts spend i may set foot again in the home, but that was never the idea of making an usufruct.
I hope some people will sharing experience with lease contract, is it any better when its come to administration stuff and familly conflit ? 
 

Edited January 19 by French mate

[BE88]

6 minutes ago, French mate said:

I did buy a townhouse to my GF (now wife) using a usufruct (life) agreement 8 years ago.

My experience started at the land office where was with an expat lawer who have acompagny me to do the paperwork. The office (sri racha) was relutent to do it, specialy the for life version. At the end a few thousand bahts brown enveloppe and signing a paper all writte in thai saying that i have nothing to do with the money used to buy the home (no comment) make them accept it.

Later,  i find out that most thai havent ever heard about usufruct and have no idea of what its mean. Although from a legal point of view im the one who have autority on who can stay or not in the home (i can decide to rent it and get the money),  at immigration people dont wanted me to complete myself the paper for my TM30, they say its my GF (at that time) who is the home boss and have to do it and my usufruct was something who have to do only with land office (they didnt understand at all what its was, and wasnt interested to do).

Same story happen for get a yellow book, i couldnt get one without her approbal.

Im actually happy in marriage, but if thing would get sour, its likely that my wife could call police to kick me out of the home, while the law say its me only who have this power.
At the time after i was done with buying the home,  my lawyer say me that  one of his customer who did a ussufruct too got he police called by his wife  to kick him out, but on show of the land deed, they offered him to take away his wife :) 
I have no reason to think he make up the story, but in exterme situation i think its would be all up to luck or good relation one of the partie may have with the local police.

Off course if its turn wrong i could seek justice and utimatly after years an lots of bahts spend i may set foot again in the home, but that was never the idea of making an usufruct.
I hope some people will sharing experience with lease contract, is it any better when its come to administration stuff and familly conflit ? 
 

 

Yes that's what I did too and I haven't been evicted yet so far

 

[john donson]

31 minutes ago, French mate said:

I did buy a townhouse to my GF (now wife) using a usufruct (life) agreement 8 years ago.

My experience started at the land office where was with an expat lawer who have acompagny me to do the paperwork. The office (sri racha) was relutent to do it, specialy the for life version. At the end a few thousand bahts brown enveloppe and signing a paper all writte in thai saying that i have nothing to do with the money used to buy the home (no comment) make them accept it.

Later,  i find out that most thai havent ever heard about usufruct and have no idea of what its mean. Although from a legal point of view im the one who have autority on who can stay or not in the home (i can decide to rent it and get the money),  at immigration people dont wanted me to complete myself the paper for my TM30, they say its my GF (at that time) who is the home boss and have to do it and my usufruct was something who have to do only with land office (they didnt understand at all what its was, and wasnt interested to do).

Same story happen for get a yellow book, i couldnt get one without her approbal.

Im actually happy in marriage, but if thing would get sour, its likely that my wife could call police to kick me out of the home, while the law say its me only who have this power.
At the time after i was done with buying the home,  my lawyer say me that  one of his customer who did a ussufruct too got he police called by his wife  to kick him out, but on show of the land deed, they offered him to take away his wife :) 
I have no reason to think he make up the story, but in exterme situation i think its would be all up to luck or good relation one of the partie may have with the local police.

Off course if its turn wrong i could seek justice and utimatly after years an lots of bahts spend i may set foot again in the home, but that was never the idea of making an usufruct.
I hope some people will sharing experience with lease contract, is it any better when its come to administration stuff and familly conflit ? 
 

 

thank you for your reply...

 

rest of comments, as usual, why even waste your time... do you think having thousands of snarky useless comments to become a paid mod here one day ?

 

make your gf buy...no she won't... if it goes pear shape... why do you think I ask about a legal registered lease or usufruct , not so dumb to pay a house and not a thing on paper, or better, on the chanote itself...

 

 

[gargamon]

Why consider setting yourself up for future complications? Avoid buying a property you cannot own. Find a nice pool villa and rent. If she's still your companion when you pass, take care of her in your will. 

[KhunLA]

Girlfriend ... 

... buy a condo in your name, or rent.

[steve187]

30 minutes ago, john donson said:

 

thank you for your reply...

 

rest of comments, as usual, why even waste your time... do you think having thousands of snarky useless comments to become a paid mod here one day ?

 

make your gf buy...no she won't... if it goes pear shape... why do you think I ask about a legal registered lease or usufruct , not so dumb to pay a house and not a thing on paper, or better, on the chanote itself...

 

 

some attitude, its an open forum if you want professional legally correct answers, then ask a professional

[French mate]

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Girlfriend ... 

... buy a condo in your name, or rent.

In my comment i forgot to say their was a legal point to make a usufruct with your GF before she become your wife :
When you maried any legal agreement make with your wife during the marriage peroid can be broke upon divorce, a life usufrut could be considered to be done in a state of weakness (love) and declared null.
This cant not happen with an agrrement done with your GF, and that why i did my usufruct before getting married.

So whatever the OP plan for futur, its safer to do it with a GF than with a wife.

[jvs]

1 hour ago, john donson said:

 

thank you for your reply...

 

rest of comments, as usual, why even waste your time... do you think having thousands of snarky useless comments to become a paid mod here one day ?

 

make your gf buy...no she won't... if it goes pear shape... why do you think I ask about a legal registered lease or usufruct , not so dumb to pay a house and not a thing on paper, or better, on the chanote itself...

 

 

Remember these things you wrote,you will learn in time.

Good luck.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, jvs said:

Let her buy the property in her name,help her to get a mortgage if you have to.

How does a foreigner help a Thai (guessing that she doesn't work) to get a mortgage in Thailand?

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

All is good until it goes bad and most people on here have experinced that.

Have they?   Most people?

[jaideedave]

2 hours ago, Henryford said:

You think the usufruct will help when she moves in her boyfriend and changes the locks?

Correct Mr Ford, Does he think Somchai will respect his usufruct contract? 555 this may happen sooner than later.

It sure happened to a retired RCMP acquaintance years ago.

He was away and when he came back her Somchai answered the door and not so politely told him to leave asap, which he had no option but comply.

Happens here quite often.

[timendres]

@French mate  points out a critical detail!

 

Quote

My experience started at the land office where was with an expat lawer who have acompagny me to do the paperwork. 

 

Make sure you have a proper attorney who is working for you!

[jvs]

42 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How does a foreigner help a Thai (guessing that she doesn't work) to get a mortgage in Thailand?

Ha can agree to pay her a wage,saying she is working for him.

[timendres]

11 minutes ago, jvs said:

Ha can agree to pay her a wage, saying she is working for him.

 

The bank will laugh at this.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

He was away and when he came back her Somchai answered the door and not so politely told him to leave asap, which he had no option but comply.

Happens here quite often.

"Happens here quite often".

 

Does it? You have stats?  

[DrJoy]

4 hours ago, French mate said:

its likely that my wife could call police to kick me out of the home

Sure can kick you out, but she cannot sell or mortgage this land till u cancel the usufruct.

 

 

[French mate]

2 hours ago, jaideedave said:

Correct Mr Ford, Does he think Somchai will respect his usufruct contract? 555 this may happen sooner than later.

It sure happened to a retired RCMP acquaintance years ago.

He was away and when he came back her Somchai answered the door and not so politely told him to leave asap, which he had no option but comply.

Happens here quite often.

That can happen, i have no doubt about it.

Now if your acqaintance did have an usufruct, and was not willing to lets that offence go he did have option to sue she and reclain the home. Its can be a long and costly process but at the end he will get the home back and she will be asked to pay compensation money. Also during this time when she will start understand the trouble awaiting her, i doubt his ex somchai will sleep well every night.

For the happen quite often, i think you misstake with the case where a farang buy a home for his lady out of love without making any prior legal arrangement. That a very classical story you often heard and im sure its have and will keep happen on a regular basis.

But the same "happing often" with people having an usufruct his very unlikely. The first reason being its uncomon to have an usufrut, even among Thai its uncomon to the point most gouvermenent officer have no clue of what is it.
When i did it in Sri Racha, i got told i was the first farang ever doing that at their office. That also why they was relutent to do it, they wasnt sure its was even legal to add a farang name on a land deed and wanted to check it out first with the upper (that where the brown envelope kicked in, as they wanted us to come back another day while they wait for the anwser).

I highly doubt its have become something that comon in the last 8 years.


 

[john donson]

it is in the thai property law, so... land department, at least the one in charge of the place should know about it or quit his job, lol

 

I do not intend to ever marry again, no need, I am on a retirement visa...

 

the rental prices around here went up at least 35% post covid and the only way is up, not down, and would really prefer living in a townhouse then a shoebox condo.