800.000 Baht account after I die - can the partner access the account

[brianthainess]

12 hours ago, kickstart said:

Good point, mine is in a fixed deposit, trying to do something to make the money work, no ATM card, no internet access.

Looks if will have go to probate, with what I have read, Thai solicitor costs are not cheap.  

In most cases it goes to the province Thai family court, you do not need a solicitor, TTBOMK

[Lancelot01]

On 1/19/2024 at 9:24 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

It will cover that situation and then the court can authorise distribution of the assets (administration/'probate').  A bank cannot decide the authenticity of a will and then give away the assets of the deceased account holder.

Also on the basis there may be third party creditors who need to be repaid.

[schultzlivgthai]

Wouldn’t it be do simple for a bank to allow a foreigner to list a beneficiary on their account? 

[Liverpool Lou]

22 hours ago, newnative said:

    My spouse and I have several bank accounts that are in our individual names but we can each access the funds in the other's account should one of us die or be incapacitated.  The banks have our signatures on file for these accounts.

After the death of either of you it does not matter whether the bank has your signatures.   Transacting from the account of a deceased account holder is illegal until administration/'probate' has been processed.  It is called fraud regardless of the relationships or whether the bank permits transactions that it is not authorised to permit.  

[Liverpool Lou]

22 hours ago, Furioso said:

Honestly has NOBODY ever heard of a Will? 

I don't understand, isn't it very common for assets of the deceased to be distributed via a will or trust? 

Yes, as far as wills are concerned (Thailand does not recognize trusts set up by individuals), but only after 'probate'/administration has been granted by a court, same as in your own country.  Legally, you cannot just walk into a bank with the will of a deceased account holder and plunder that account.

Edited January 21 by Liverpool Lou

[Mike Lister]

An inappropriate post that was a slur against bank employee s has been removed

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, mancub said:

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Very helpful of them to assist with fraud after your death.  I bet that they wouldn't put that in writing.

Probably not, but then again, they probably wouldn't instigate a case for fraud either, given the scenario

The bank, obviously, wouldn't as they'd have been party to the illegal transaction but a third party with an interest in the estate could.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

22 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

You can but not legally.

     I don't mean to be facetious but why is this illegal?  The bank seems to have a whole process in place for this and it didn't seem like they were doing anythng special or unusual for us to have access to the other's account.  We also have a joint savings account with SCB that has both of our names on the account's bank book, my Thai partner's in Thai and mine in English.  With that account we actually have 3 bank books, the one I just mentioned and one each with only our individual names.  Although I said 'spouse' in my first post we are a gay couple and only legally married in the US, if that makes any difference. 

He was referencing sole accounts being accessed by third parties, which is illegal without 'probate'/administration, not joint accounts that the surviving account holder does have access to.

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, brianthainess said:

20 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Maybe, possibly, dunno.

Coming from a Moderator I find that very rude.

That's your issue, not his, for a comment that was not "very rude"!

Edited January 21 by Liverpool Lou

[giddyup]

18 hours ago, kickstart said:

Good point, mine is in a fixed deposit, trying to do something to make the money work, no ATM card, no internet access.

Looks if will have go to probate, with what I have read, Thai solicitor costs are not cheap.  

Never understood why solicitors are so expensive in Thailand. Even the making of a will is twice what I would pay in Australia.

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, Graham8888 said:

I would imagine that in my experience in the uk of this process with santander , which is a worldwide problem is that the bank does everything it can to hang on to the money for as long as possible in the hope that you may give up trying- took me 2 years with santander

Banks have no input to the probate court's processes in the UK and once probate has been granted the banks cannot do anything to delay transactions on the deceased's account, unless there is evidence of something untoward going on that they are contesting through the legal system.

Edited January 21 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, Tmoney said:

I went to the bank a couple of years ago and filled in forms together with my wife which according to the bank allows my wife to withdraw funds (without needing my signature) both before and after ones death.

Your bank gave you incorrect information regarding transactions on your sole account after your death and you should ask them to put that in writing (they won't).  No one can legally take funds from the account of a deceased person without a court appointing an administrator ('probate') and banks cannot carry out that process nor can they decide who is entitled to the estate's funds.  Some may do it in their ignorance of the law, or arrogance, but they are leaving themselves open to legal action if the wrong people get the funds.

[Liverpool Lou]

18 hours ago, DrJoy said:

On 1/19/2024 at 8:24 PM, kickstart said:

 I have a will in the UK.

Its not valid in Thailand,

It is, under certain circumstances.

"Under what circumstances a foreigner is not required to make a separate last will and testament in Thailand?
Foreigners are not required to make a separate last will in Thailand if they are residents in Thailand, own real estate, or are married to someone in Thailand who is a national".

https://www.thaiembassy.com/property/foreigner-making-a-will-in-thailand

[Liverpool Lou]

16 hours ago, stevenl said:

22 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Cmon I was being a wise ass. Point being, just let the kids or old lady have bank pins and simply transfer money out. All I hear here is, it's not legal.

Legal is all one very loud poster here seems to care about.

Accuracy is not a bad idea on such an important subject and, if push comes to shove on administering an estate, legality could be very important.

[Liverpool Lou]

16 hours ago, stevenl said:

Exactly, another poster said he experienced that didn't happen. Conveniently ignored by all claiming 'bank will not release funds'.

Banks should not, they do not have that authority, that is the point. If they release funds from a deceased person's account to the wrong person, they would be liable, as would whoever received those funds.

Edited January 21 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, Andycoops said:

In the case I know of the Thai wife had to produce the death certificate at the bank branch to obtain access to the account.

To comply with the law the bank (also) has to have evidence of 'probate' from the administrator of the deceased estate. What does a death certificate do apart from confirm a death?   Banks need probate and cannot decide, unilaterally, who is entitled to the account proceeds.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, schultzlivgthai said:

Wouldn’t it be do simple for a bank to allow a foreigner to list a beneficiary on their account? 

The facility already exists in the form of a will.  Banks cannot decide who gets the funds or whether a nominated beneficiary is legitimately entitled to the account proceeds, that's why administration has to be processed.  Whether that process is illegally bypassed is a different matter.

[Liverpool Lou]

All those posters who are not concerned about the legal aspects of passing on their fortunes to their intended beneficiaries should bear in mind that if their wife can bypass the system and persuade the bank to go along with her by dishing out the cash without the authority to do so (only 'probate'/administration gives it that authority) then other third  parties (who were not supposed to be beneficiaries) could also do that and get money that they intended to go to their wives.  It's a two-way street.

[topt]

55 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He was referencing sole accounts being accessed by third parties, which is illegal without 'probate'/administration, not joint accounts that the surviving account holder does have access to.

So to be clear are you saying that where there is a joint account or, as in @newnative case where they have an account with a "hidden" (for want of a better word) signatory that can access the account, this is legal and acceptable?

I query because this latter arrangement is what I think the original OP was trying to get to but I could of course be wrong......

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, topt said:

So to be clear are you saying that where there is a joint account or, as in @newnative case where they have an account with a "hidden" (for want of a better word) signatory that can access the account, this is legal and acceptable?

No, that is not what I was saying, what you describe above is not a joint account it is a sole account (eg. John Smith) with funds held under that one name but with an additional signatory, either of whom can sign for transactions. 

A joint account has both names specified on the account, eg. John and Joan Smith and funds are held under both names with equal access allowed to either name.

[topt]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

either of whom can sign for transactions. 

 

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

with equal access allowed to either name.

Ok thanks but isn't this the same thing in practice?

 

Also do you have any supporting link with regards to your statements on these accounts? 

[trainman34014]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:20 PM, MickTurator said:

This is a subject of great interest to me.

 

I asked at the bank (ayudhya) last week and they said my wife would not be able to access the 800k baht.

A death certificate would not be enough and the matter would have to go to court.

Maybe the bank is talking rubbish so does anyone have an answer and know what form the OP has mentioned?

 

I signed a form at Bangkok Bank several years ago authorising my Wife (my surname) to draw the fundsupon my death and the production of a Death Certificate.  Bank has one copy and we have the other.    Problem solved.

 

Of course; it will no doubt vary from Bank to Bank !

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Strange!!! What do you suggest we do Steven, recommend to member's that they break the law? How about tax, should we advocate tax evasion also? 

You really see that as the only option?

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

All those posters who are not concerned about the legal aspects of passing on their fortunes to their intended beneficiaries should bear in mind that if their wife can bypass the system and persuade the bank to go along with her by dishing out the cash without the authority to do so (only 'probate'/administration gives it that authority) then other third  parties (who were not supposed to be beneficiaries) could also do that and get money that they intended to go to their wives.  It's a two-way street.

So my wife having the pincode, thereby being able to access the account without probate, allows other third parties to do the same?

[Mike Lister]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You really see that as the only option?

We are obliged to not advocate anything that is illegal.

[brianthainess]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:52 PM, Mike Lister said:

there have been instances where amphurs will not issue yellow tabien bahns to foreigners, mine for example.

Some Amphurs may not, but mine did no problem at all.

[The Fugitive]

6 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Some Amphurs may not, but mine did no problem at all.

Mine resisted for four year's by demanding more and more documents. Mrs spoke to their Customer Service Manager informally at a social event and he told them to 'give over' and I then got my Yellow Book and Pink ID Card. 

[ChipButty]

Having read most of the post here it seems like there is many different cases and different rules, what might be right for you is not right for me in my area, 

 

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

We are obliged to not advocate anything that is illegal.

Which is a far cry from my point.

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Which is a far cry from my point.

Whatever your point is, please make it so that we can move on