"Gaza Conflict Toll Surpasses 25,000: Political Stalemate and International Concerns"

[Jeff the Chef]

14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Have you any concerns about the Palestinians being arrested , jailed, fined and brutalised by Hamas ?

 

 

"Hopes of change in Gaza are fading fast as the Hamas crackdown on a mass protest movement this week is already seeing dwindling numbers of people turning out.

A local Palestinian human rights watchdog has recorded over 1,000 arrests in the past week, 300 of those are still in detention.

Those released from Hamas custody were forced to pay a fine of around $280 and sign a document pledging not to participate in further demonstrations or face a fine of $2,800, the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) added. In the Hamas response, director ICHR Jamil Sarhan was hospitalised.

Many of those released said that they were beaten and tortured while in prison.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/mena/hamas-crackdown-on-protests-snuffs-out-a-push-for-change-in-gaza-1.839824

 

   Palestinians are getting brutalised in Gaza and you ignore that and focus of fals accusations made about Israel .

   Could it be that Hamas are pointing fingers at Israel, just so they can carry on attacking civilians without any criticism ?

 

 

Not their day is it, beaten up by Hamas and bombed by Israel, poor bastards.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Not their day is it, beaten up by Hamas and bombed by Israel, poor bastards.

 

 Once again , deflecting from my post and going on about Israel .

If anyone posts anything about Hamas behaving terribly, just reply mentioning Israel 

[placeholder]

 

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  What evidence was there ?

  (No,  I don't have the time to keep on opening links , I get about 10-15 links a day on here to open and read and I cannot open and read them all  ) 

What makes your comments so ridiculous is that you assume the default position should be that Israeli forces are not abusing prisoners or falsely imprisoning people who aren't members of Hamas. Given that Israel is denying the Red Cross access to prisoners and is not allowing outside reporters to enter Gaza, what is the factual basis for your belief? You asked me for evidence. Well, what proof do you have that Israel is treating prisoners humanely?

 

Here is some specific evidence:

Photographs taken by Gaza journalists have shown newly released detainees being treated in hospitals, the skin around their wrists worn down with deep cuts from the tight restraints Israeli forces kept on them, sometimes for weeks at a time....

“The presumption that military-aged males are combatants is troubling,” Mr. Finucane said.

Francesca Albanese, the United Nations special rapporteur for the occupied Palestinian territories, said in October that designating civilians who did not evacuate as accomplices to terrorism was not only a threat of collective punishment, but could constitute ethnic cleansing.

https://archive.ph/S6a4Y

 

“Getting to the bottom of numbers has been extremely difficult, but we have heard that it runs into the thousands,” said Sunghay.

“They described being beaten, humiliated, subjected to ill treatment and to what may amount to torture,” he added. “There are reports of men who were subsequently released — but only in diapers, without any adequate clothing in this cold weather.”

Sunghay also said the released detainees “reported being blindfolded for long periods — some of them for several consecutive days,” and that most said “they were taken at some time into Israel,” although they could not determine specifically where.

https://www.voanews.com/a/un-accuses-israel-of-detaining-mistreating-thousands-of-palestinians-/7447577.html

 

And you know for a fact that all the people being detained are Hamas members? This is the testimony of Mosab Abu Tosa, a Palestinian poet. Fortunately for him, he had enough friends in America that he ultimately got released.

"And the Israelis, by the way, accused me of being a Hamas member. You know, I mean, what a ridiculous accusation. I have been living in America for the past four years. And I’ve been hurt, you know, without — I asked them. I asked the Israeli captain if they have any photograph, if they have any satellite photo of me holding a weapon or being in any place that could cause any harm to you. And he slapped me in the face. He said, “You give me the proof!”"

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/12/7/mosab_leaving_gaza

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Have you any concerns about the Palestinians being arrested , jailed, fined and brutalised by Hamas ?

 

 

"Hopes of change in Gaza are fading fast as the Hamas crackdown on a mass protest movement this week is already seeing dwindling numbers of people turning out.

A local Palestinian human rights watchdog has recorded over 1,000 arrests in the past week, 300 of those are still in detention.

Those released from Hamas custody were forced to pay a fine of around $280 and sign a document pledging not to participate in further demonstrations or face a fine of $2,800, the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) added. In the Hamas response, director ICHR Jamil Sarhan was hospitalised.

Many of those released said that they were beaten and tortured while in prison.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/mena/hamas-crackdown-on-protests-snuffs-out-a-push-for-change-in-gaza-1.839824

 

   Palestinians are getting brutalised in Gaza and you ignore that and focus of fals accusations made about Israel .

   Could it be that Hamas are pointing fingers at Israel, just so they can carry on attacking civilians without any criticism ?

 

The reports about Israeli brutality do not stems from  accusations by Hamas. And how does evidence of Hamas' brutality negate the evidence of Israeli brutality?

[coolcarer]

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  What evidence was there ?

  (No,  I don't have the time to keep on opening links , I get about 10-15 links a day on here to open and read and I cannot open and read them all  ) 

I read in full the VOA link, titled UN Accuses Israel of detaining mistreating thousands of Palestinians.

 

Very misleading headline. It was just one UN guy Ajith Sunghay who met with a number of released detainees who claimed they had been mistreated. 
 

But getting to the bottom of the numbers “we have head been extremely difficult, we have heard that it runs into thousands”

 

So yea they heard about it. 
 

Personally I don’t trust one word the UN in Gaza say. New topic here on that.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

Apparently Israel doesn't trust the Red Cross either.

Is it without reason?

 

How can we trust the International Red Cross when it comes to the hostages?

UN Watch, the Jerusalem Institute for Justice and hostage families have pointed to ICRC’s alarming social media posts in the aftermath of October 7th. UN Watch devastatingly unveiled that ICRC promoted the false Hamas story that Israel attacked and “destroyed” Al Ahli hospital, saying it was shocked and horrified that “hundreds were killed,” including “patients killed in a hospital bed,” and doctors were “losing their lives trying to save others.” We all know that ICRC’s comments were devoid of facts. Their accounts, in my estimation, served to instigate rage towards Jews and the State of Israel based on a lie.

The statements, passed as fact, were debunked terrorist propaganda. For those who like statistics, 77% of the tweets by ICRC related accounts on X (twitter) criticized Israel while only 7% criticized Hamas.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-can-we-trust-the-international-red-cross-when-it-comes-to-the-hostages/

 

Family of Israeli Captive: Red Cross Told Us to “Think about the Palestinian Side”

Israeli relatives of hostages kidnapped by the terrorist group Hamas on October 7th have complained that the Red Cross has refused to bring medication to their loved ones, with some even claiming Red Cross personnel told them to sympathise with the Palestinians. 

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/family-of-israeli-captive-red-cross-told-them-to-think-about-the-palestinian-side/

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Is it without reason?

 

How can we trust the International Red Cross when it comes to the hostages?

UN Watch, the Jerusalem Institute for Justice and hostage families have pointed to ICRC’s alarming social media posts in the aftermath of October 7th. UN Watch devastatingly unveiled that ICRC promoted the false Hamas story that Israel attacked and “destroyed” Al Ahli hospital, saying it was shocked and horrified that “hundreds were killed,” including “patients killed in a hospital bed,” and doctors were “losing their lives trying to save others.” We all know that ICRC’s comments were devoid of facts. Their accounts, in my estimation, served to instigate rage towards Jews and the State of Israel based on a lie.

The statements, passed as fact, were debunked terrorist propaganda. For those who like statistics, 77% of the tweets by ICRC related accounts on X (twitter) criticized Israel while only 7% criticized Hamas.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-can-we-trust-the-international-red-cross-when-it-comes-to-the-hostages/

 

Family of Israeli Captive: Red Cross Told Us to “Think about the Palestinian Side”

Israeli relatives of hostages kidnapped by the terrorist group Hamas on October 7th have complained that the Red Cross has refused to bring medication to their loved ones, with some even claiming Red Cross personnel told them to sympathise with the Palestinians. 

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/family-of-israeli-captive-red-cross-told-them-to-think-about-the-palestinian-side/

You think that the Red Cross is lying about being denied access to POW's? Really?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

You think that the Red Cross is lying about being denied access to POW's? Really?

So nothing but deflection from my question then and no despite that deflection I do not think they are lying about not having access to POW's. 

 

But that was nothing to do with my post which you ignored.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So nothing but deflection from my question then and no despite that deflection I do not think they are lying about not having access to POW's. 

 

But that was nothing to do with my post which you ignored.

The Red Cross did not launch the claim about the hospital attack. It was simply too credulous and believed it. That's quite different from the Red Cross reporting on its own experience with the Israeli authorities.

As for what some Red Cross employee told an Israeli family, what's that got to do with this report coming from the Red Cross?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

The Red Cross did not launch the claim about the hospital attack. It was simply too credulous and believed it. That's quite different from the Red Cross reporting on its own experience with the Israeli authorities.

As for what some Red Cross employee told an Israeli family, what's that got to do with this report coming from the Red Cross?

That was not my question

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

That was not my question

Your question is irrelevant to the fact that, with a few exceptions, Israel won't even confirm the names of the POWs. How would the Red Cross distort or misuse that data? 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Your question is irrelevant to the fact that, with a few exceptions, Israel won't even confirm the names of the POWs. How would the Red Cross distort or misuse that data? 

How can this question be irrelevant? You posted: "Apparently Israel doesn't trust the Red Cross either."

 

I returned with:

 

43 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Is it without reason?

 

How can we trust the International Red Cross when it comes to the hostages?

UN Watch, the Jerusalem Institute for Justice and hostage families have pointed to ICRC’s alarming social media posts in the aftermath of October 7th. UN Watch devastatingly unveiled that ICRC promoted the false Hamas story that Israel attacked and “destroyed” Al Ahli hospital, saying it was shocked and horrified that “hundreds were killed,” including “patients killed in a hospital bed,” and doctors were “losing their lives trying to save others.” We all know that ICRC’s comments were devoid of facts. Their accounts, in my estimation, served to instigate rage towards Jews and the State of Israel based on a lie.

The statements, passed as fact, were debunked terrorist propaganda. For those who like statistics, 77% of the tweets by ICRC related accounts on X (twitter) criticized Israel while only 7% criticized Hamas.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-can-we-trust-the-international-red-cross-when-it-comes-to-the-hostages/

 

Family of Israeli Captive: Red Cross Told Us to “Think about the Palestinian Side”

Israeli relatives of hostages kidnapped by the terrorist group Hamas on October 7th have complained that the Red Cross has refused to bring medication to their loved ones, with some even claiming Red Cross personnel told them to sympathise with the Palestinians. 

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/family-of-israeli-captive-red-cross-told-them-to-think-about-the-palestinian-side/

All you've got is deflection, even after I answered your deflective question. 

 

Forget it, cant be bothered to debate you you any longer, dishonest debating is not for me.

Edited January 25 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

How can this question be irrelevant? You posted: "Apparently Israel doesn't trust the Red Cross either."

 

I returned with:

 

All you've got is deflection, even after I answered your deflective question. 

 

Forget it, cant be bothered to debate you you any longer, dishonest debating is not for me.

So, you offer no justification for why Israel won't even release the names of POW's to the Red Cross. Instead you pull your usual moral indignation stunt.

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Forget it, cant be bothered to debate you you any longer, dishonest debating is not for me.

 

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So, you offer no justification for why Israel won't even release the names of POW's to the Red Cross. Instead you pull your usual moral indignation stunt.

Maybe they don't know their names. Why do you think they won't? 

[Bkk Brian]

The Red Cross has turned its back on Israel

Time and again, the organisation has pointed fingers at Israel while shrugging off the gross mistreatment of its citizens. Last month, it wrote a high-handed letter expressing potential concerns over the conditions in Israeli jails. Across the border, meanwhile, hundreds of innocent babies, women, disabled people and Holocaust survivors were being held in terrible conditions by captors who did not even bother with the pretence of upholding international law.
It felt like a symbolic moment. People began to ask questions about why the Red Cross, which had sent missions to the al-Shifa Hospital, was not doing more to confront Hamas. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/the-red-cross-has-turned-its-back-on-israel/

https://archive.ph/NlI4l

[ozimoron]

"Women and children will be the first to succumb [from starvation]".

 

"At every step of the way Israel has failed to provide even the most basic of humanitarian protections".

 

 

Edited January 25 by ozimoron

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

"Women and children will be the first to succumb [from starvation]".

 

"At every step of the way Israel has failed to provide even the most basic of humanitarian protections".

 

 

One of your heroes no doubt 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

You think that the Red Cross is lying about being denied access to POW's? Really?

Did he answer that?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Did he answer that?

You read my posts so why not ask me directly

[Morch]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

The reports about Israeli brutality do not stems from  accusations by Hamas. And how does evidence of Hamas' brutality negate the evidence of Israeli brutality?

 

It doesn't, but maybe goes a ways to explain things. More of this since 7/10, for sure.

Other thing that's rather obvious is that you're obsessed with one side's faults, while not really commenting much on the other's.

 

[Morch]

13 hours ago, ozimoron said:

More war crimes

 

 

 

@ozimoron

 

More you declaring 'war crimes'.

Actual war crimes are things decided not by you, but by relevant legal offices - which you are not a member of.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

Apparently Israel doesn't trust the Red Cross either.

 

Very surprising. Not.

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

"At every step of the way Israel has failed to provide even the most basic of humanitarian protections".

The consistent failure of Israel to uphold even the most fundamental humanitarian protections at every juncture is unbelievable. The international community's reluctance to take decisive action, such as imposing embargos or sanctions, raises  questions about the enforcement of justice and accountability on the global stage. Despite mounting evidence of human rights abuses, the persistent expansion of settlements, and the use of force in conflict zones, there seems to be a lack of unified condemnation and consequences for Israel's actions. The ongoing plight of the Palestinian people calls for a critical examination of the international community's response, as it prompts concerns about the efficacy of existing diplomatic mechanisms and the enforcement of human rights standards. The apparent inertia in addressing these issues fuels frustration among those advocating for a more robust international response to hold Israel accountable for its actions and to ensure the protection of basic human rights for all parties involved.

 

[Morch]

Just now, Neeranam said:

The consistent failure of Israel to uphold even the most fundamental humanitarian protections at every juncture is unbelievable. The international community's reluctance to take decisive action, such as imposing embargos or sanctions, raises  questions about the enforcement of justice and accountability on the global stage. Despite mounting evidence of human rights abuses, the persistent expansion of settlements, and the use of force in conflict zones, there seems to be a lack of unified condemnation and consequences for Israel's actions. The ongoing plight of the Palestinian people calls for a critical examination of the international community's response, as it prompts concerns about the efficacy of existing diplomatic mechanisms and the enforcement of human rights standards. The apparent inertia in addressing these issues fuels frustration among those advocating for a more robust international response to hold Israel accountable for its actions and to ensure the protection of basic human rights for all parties involved.

 

 

Source please.

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Red Cross has turned its back on Israel

Time and again, the organisation has pointed fingers at Israel while shrugging off the gross mistreatment of its citizens. Last month, it wrote a high-handed letter expressing potential concerns over the conditions in Israeli jails. Across the border, meanwhile, hundreds of innocent babies, women, disabled people and Holocaust survivors were being held in terrible conditions by captors who did not even bother with the pretence of upholding international law.
It felt like a symbolic moment. People began to ask questions about why the Red Cross, which had sent missions to the al-Shifa Hospital, was not doing more to confront Hamas. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/the-red-cross-has-turned-its-back-on-israel/

https://archive.ph/NlI4l

 

Talk about laying it on a bit thick,

 

"Across the border, meanwhile, hundreds of innocent babies, women, disabled people and Holocaust survivors were being held in terrible conditions by captors who did not even bother with the pretence of upholding international law."

 

Hundreds, 132 is not hundreds, compared to the thousands of Palestinians held without trial in Israel in probably worse conditions and having the excrement kicked out of them at every opportunity.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Stop trolling. This is my opinion.

 

Your opinion yes, your words - methinks not.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Talk about laying it on a bit thick,

 

"Across the border, meanwhile, hundreds of innocent babies, women, disabled people and Holocaust survivors were being held in terrible conditions by captors who did not even bother with the pretence of upholding international law."

 

Hundreds, 132 is not hundreds, compared to the thousands of Palestinians held without trial in Israel in probably worse conditions and having the excrement kicked out of them at every opportunity.

 

There were more hostages held initially - guess you 'forgot' that.

As for Palestinians held in 'worse' conditions, you're making things up.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Your opinion yes, your words - methinks not.

This is becoming a common occurrence, you don't like/agree with what I write then accuse me of copying it and can't back up your ridiculous claim. Again, stop trolling. 

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

This is becoming a common occurrence, you don't like/agree with what I write then accuse me of copying it and can't back up your ridiculous claim. Again, stop trolling. 

 

 

When someone routinely cannot articulate a coherent view on the topic start putting forth a different sort of dish, it's reasonable to have doubts. Given that it wouldn't be a first for you, all the more so.

Edited January 25 by Morch