Isaan Funerals

[Stevey]

 I remember my first funeral here. I'd met the woman 6months previous and she was really nice. A change from the usual Isaan know it all fishwives. She was 50 and it was mid 2022 and I heard about how she had suddenly been diagnosed with a cancer of sorts and saw a pic of her in hospital with swollen eyes. Within a week she was history. 

 

The girlfriend asked me along to the Ngarn Sop funeral but anticipating a lot of sadness I declined although I did make a good connection with her when we'd met before. 

 

I spotted my girlfriend on the map with her sharinoher iPhone positioned. I guess that the pre funeral was over and they were at the ' Tee Pow' burning place. I made my way up there. I was alone in the forest, everyone had gone back post the ceremony. I was surprised to find that the Tee Pow was in a clearing in a forest and didn't have the usual white structure for cremation but there was brick surrounded pit on the floor where a fire was burning. As I made my way closer I realised that she was on fire. This cremation was done publicly. A roaring fire had been created and she had been placed on top. I didn't get to close or look to hard but it was an eerie sight. 

 

I made my way back to the house in the village. Everyone was there laughing and joking like it was a wedding. I , as a Falang with an actual soul, was emotional inside but the family seemed quite jovial about it all. 

 

Next was the night time doo where I learned more about these people. She was one of 9 siblings. Her mother is the sister of  my girlfriend's Father. It seems having 8 kids back then was common. I sat amongst the family and visitors and detected an undertone of sadness. I sat near her mother in her mid 70's who sat alone. I think she was very upset. I heard  a man laughing on our table with one of the relatives that it's good for people to die so he can have a party, dark humour indeed. 

 

I heard that some of the men had to go back and retrieve some bone from the funeral pyre. And then it was all over.

 

I have always been of the thinking that burial is such opulence taking up valuable ground but after seeing so many people disappear which put a trace here I am in two minds. I’ve buried every cat and dog I’ve owned and feel they are still around but under the ground. There is just something so final about cremation that I can’t get my head around it. The last dog I buried a few weeks ago I dug a hole for out of respect. One final effort of sweat to counter the lack of effort the in vaccinating it against the distemper virus it had succumbed to. My Thai girlfriend would have thrown her in a refuse bin. Such is the divide in respect for a person and a dog who can similarly dream and feel pain and distress at being lost from its owner.  Although in my experience has no concept that some one is missing  from the group.

 

[mfd101]

From an historical point of view your sensitivity is anachronistic.

 

The matter-of-fact disposal of the body is and always has been the norm everywhere in the world where families are large. They used to be 100 years ago in The West too. My father was the eldest of 9 children, my mother one of the youngest of 7. Babies were born and died easily. The great change in life expectancy throughout The West over the last hundred years is mostly the product of the virtual elimination of childhood mortality.

 

That change has produced changes in how we process death. But not amongst the poor people of Thailand or anywhere else.

 

 

[Will B Good]

If we have one more "Isaan" funeral in our village over the coming weeks I am leaving my wife.......five effing days of non-stop deafening bass notes.

[OneMoreFarang]

I remember some time ago I visited with my gf a friend of her up country.

At the neighbor's house they had music playing all the time.

I almost asked if there is a party going on. Later someone told me someone died in that house and now they play that funeral music for some time. 

[grain]

12 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

If we have one more "Isaan" funeral in our village over the coming weeks I am leaving my wife.......five effing days of non-stop deafening bass notes.

Your village sounds like our village. It's a great at night unless someone dies, gets married, or becomes a monk. Then like you I'm looking at getting out for a week.

[The Fugitive]

A friend of my Mrs died locally. Her favourite temple was under construction, the crematorium not yet complete. As the lady had insisted no other temple would do, the monks built an open air bonfire with the timber and placed her casket ontop. Looked rather nice the way they had done it.

[Will B Good]

9 minutes ago, grain said:

Your village sounds like our village. It's a great at night unless someone dies, gets married, or becomes a monk. Then like you I'm looking at getting out for a week.

Yes...... it is incredibly quiet past 7pm....dead, unless, as you say, there's an event......then all hell breaks loose.....for days.

[riclag]

26 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

A friend of my Mrs died locally. Her favourite temple was under construction, the crematorium not yet complete. As the lady had insisted no other temple would do, the monks built an open air bonfire with the timber and placed her casket ontop. Looked rather nice the way they had done it.

Had a Brit acquaintance up here ,near Sakon die

in a car accident  ,they did the same!

Open air ,near not on temple grounds.

Someone said its more affordable.

 

 

[it is what it is]

 

backpacking in india i stayed at a hostel near the ghats in varanassi, it was a common site to see not only bodies being carried through the streets on the way to the ghats, but also see the bodies being burnt. and if the wind was blowing in a certain direction there was a particular smell at breakfast on the veranda.

 

regarding thai funerals, what struck me most was having a photographer present to record the event.

[The Fugitive]

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

Had a Brit acquaintance up here ,near Sakon die

in a car accident  ,they did the same!

Open air ,near not on temple grounds.

Someone said its more affordable.

This was what they did.

[kimamey]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

If we have one more "Isaan" funeral in our village over the coming weeks I am leaving my wife.......five effing days of non-stop deafening bass notes.

 

It's the same or worse when a  guy becomes a monk. I've driven past in my car and all the doors rattle, and even my stomach. I'm not sure why it has to be that loud as it can't be a centuries long tradition.

[kimamey]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I remember some time ago I visited with my gf a friend of her up country.

At the neighbor's house they had music playing all the time.

I almost asked if there is a party going on. Later someone told me someone died in that house and now they play that funeral music for some time. 

 

It seems to differ depending on the area. In some cases there seems to be 4 days of visits by monks, which is for the deceased according to my wife, and then 4 more after the funeral for those left behind. 

[kimamey]

2 hours ago, Stevey said:

 I remember my first funeral here. I'd met the woman 6months previous and she was really nice. A change from the usual Isaan know it all fishwives. She was 50 and it was mid 2022 and I heard about how she had suddenly been diagnosed with a cancer of sorts and saw a pic of her in hospital with swollen eyes. Within a week she was history. 

 

The girlfriend asked me along to the Ngarn Sop funeral but anticipating a lot of sadness I declined although I did make a good connection with her when we'd met before. 

 

I spotted my girlfriend on the map with her sharinoher iPhone positioned. I guess that the pre funeral was over and they were at the ' Tee Pow' burning place. I made my way up there. I was alone in the forest, everyone had gone back post the ceremony. I was surprised to find that the Tee Pow was in a clearing in a forest and didn't have the usual white structure for cremation but there was brick surrounded pit on the floor where a fire was burning. As I made my way closer I realised that she was on fire. This cremation was done publicly. A roaring fire had been created and she had been placed on top. I didn't get to close or look to hard but it was an eerie sight. 

 

I made my way back to the house in the village. Everyone was there laughing and joking like it was a wedding. I , as a Falang with an actual soul, was emotional inside but the family seemed quite jovial about it all. 

 

Next was the night time doo where I learned more about these people. She was one of 9 siblings. Her mother is the sister of  my girlfriend's Father. It seems having 8 kids back then was common. I sat amongst the family and visitors and detected an undertone of sadness. I sat near her mother in her mid 70's who sat alone. I think she was very upset. I heard  a man laughing on our table with one of the relatives that it's good for people to die so he can have a party, dark humour indeed. 

 

I heard that some of the men had to go back and retrieve some bone from the funeral pyre. And then it was all over.

 

I have always been of the thinking that burial is such opulence taking up valuable ground but after seeing so many people disappear which put a trace here I am in two minds. I’ve buried every cat and dog I’ve owned and feel they are still around but under the ground. There is just something so final about cremation that I can’t get my head around it. The last dog I buried a few weeks ago I dug a hole for out of respect. One final effort of sweat to counter the lack of effort the in vaccinating it against the distemper virus it had succumbed to. My Thai girlfriend would have thrown her in a refuse bin. Such is the divide in respect for a person and a dog who can similarly dream and feel pain and distress at being lost from its owner.  Although in my experience has no concept that some one is missing  from the group.

 

I've been to a few, in fact I went to one yesterday for a friend of my wife. He was 55 and died in his sleep. I'm not sure why but apparently he drank a lot. His wife seemed happy enough. Oddly we didn't go up to the coffin before the cremation which I've never seen before. That's normally the last thing before everyone except the family leave. There doesn't usually seem to be much grief but then even in the UK I think the funeral is a turning point when you leave it behind. In Thailand the flashpoint for grief seems to be when the coffin is removed from the house, often a precarious task down some stairs, and the opening of the coffin before the cremation.

 

My wife's sister died in September one year and her husband on the 2nd of January, roughly 3 months later. Their son hadn't even grown his hair fully back before he has to shave it again. They lived in Phayao a few metres from the temple, but it had no cremation building onsite so we had to go about a kilometre to where the cremations were done. They had a normal cremation building but the coffin had an ornate canopy over it which made it too big for the oven. I'm not sure I can remember the name for it, but it might be something like 'bassard' The point at the top was hinged so it could be lowered to pass under overhead wires, but there were still a couple of guys with long bamboo poles to raise the lower ones. There were two raised platforms to support the coffin and canopy, between which the logs could be piled. In this case we had to leave it for 3 days and then go back to collect the small pieces of bones. I'd never done this before so I wasn't really sure what to look for. The bones were laid out in the shape of a human  body and prayed over. My wife's uncle who was a monk was there and he died a few years later. HIs funeral was obviously a lot bigger and on this occasion the bones were collected the next day whilst the ashes were still hot so tweezers made out of bamboo were handed round to pick out the bones. 

 

In the case of my wife's sister and husband, his bones stayed there as that's where he was born but hers were split and we bought some back to Mahasarakham where they were thrown in the river and I think some were put in the temple wall. With the monk I got a strange video of a couple of trays of bones with members of the family picking out which ones they wanted.

[KannikaP]

I vividly remember my first boat trip around the klongs of Bangkok, back in 2002, and at one point smelled a 'lovely barbecue' until we turned a corner and there was a funeral pyre. Mmmmm.

[riclag]

3 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

This was what they did.

Yes exactly .

[lungbing]

the first thing we knew about a neighbour dying was when a pickup laden with huge speakers turned up and began to play sad music all day, full volume.

[arick]

Are you sure you weren't in the north of the Border ?

[The Old Bull]

17 hours ago, Will B Good said:

If we have one more "Isaan" funeral in our village over the coming weeks I am leaving my wife.......five effing days of non-stop deafening bass notes.

It's all about the insurance. There wouldn't be anyone making life insurance on a young person as they may not live long enough to collect. Same with someone real old unless there is already insurance in place. My brother in law was a real wild man so there were lots of policies out on him. People collected B200,000 or B300,000 and kicked in 20 or 30 thousand for the party. It went on for five days and they killed two beef and licked up many gallons of booze.

[cracker1]

18 hours ago, Stevey said:

 I remember my first funeral here. I'd met the woman 6months previous and she was really nice. A change from the usual Isaan know it all fishwives. She was 50 and it was mid 2022 and I heard about how she had suddenly been diagnosed with a cancer of sorts and saw a pic of her in hospital with swollen eyes. Within a week she was history. 

 

The girlfriend asked me along to the Ngarn Sop funeral but anticipating a lot of sadness I declined although I did make a good connection with her when we'd met before. 

 

I spotted my girlfriend on the map with her sharinoher iPhone positioned. I guess that the pre funeral was over and they were at the ' Tee Pow' burning place. I made my way up there. I was alone in the forest, everyone had gone back post the ceremony. I was surprised to find that the Tee Pow was in a clearing in a forest and didn't have the usual white structure for cremation but there was brick surrounded pit on the floor where a fire was burning. As I made my way closer I realised that she was on fire. This cremation was done publicly. A roaring fire had been created and she had been placed on top. I didn't get to close or look to hard but it was an eerie sight. 

 

I made my way back to the house in the village. Everyone was there laughing and joking like it was a wedding. I , as a Falang with an actual soul, was emotional inside but the family seemed quite jovial about it all. 

 

Next was the night time doo where I learned more about these people. She was one of 9 siblings. Her mother is the sister of  my girlfriend's Father. It seems having 8 kids back then was common. I sat amongst the family and visitors and detected an undertone of sadness. I sat near her mother in her mid 70's who sat alone. I think she was very upset. I heard  a man laughing on our table with one of the relatives that it's good for people to die so he can have a party, dark humour indeed. 

 

I heard that some of the men had to go back and retrieve some bone from the funeral pyre. And then it was all over.

 

I have always been of the thinking that burial is such opulence taking up valuable ground but after seeing so many people disappear which put a trace here I am in two minds. I’ve buried every cat and dog I’ve owned and feel they are still around but under the ground. There is just something so final about cremation that I can’t get my head around it. The last dog I buried a few weeks ago I dug a hole for out of respect. One final effort of sweat to counter the lack of effort the in vaccinating it against the distemper virus it had succumbed to. My Thai girlfriend would have thrown her in a refuse bin. Such is the divide in respect for a person and a dog who can similarly dream and feel pain and distress at being lost from its owner.  Although in my experience has no concept that some one is missing  from the group.

 

Thanks for your sensitive story.

[udontomi]

We "farang" are visitors/guests in Thailand (Isaan) and should remember that as such we should either accept our hosts' culture or leave!

Edited February 6 by udontomi
misspelling

[jimn]

Thank goodness I don't live in a Thai village. I love my gated community 7km outside Pattaya. Easy access to everywhere and no funeral or temple noise polluting the air.

[grain]

14 hours ago, lungbing said:

the first thing we knew about a neighbour dying was when a pickup laden with huge speakers turned up and began to play sad music all day, full volume.

That's the first thing they think of, I reckon before they even notify the local authorities of the death they have phoned the sound system company to come around and erect the scaffolding and set up like a rock concert. 

[grain]

18 hours ago, kimamey said:

 

It's the same or worse when a  guy becomes a monk. I've driven past in my car and all the doors rattle, and even my stomach. I'm not sure why it has to be that loud as it can't be a centuries long tradition.

It's a face thing, the louder the noise, the bigger the sound system, the more money you have and the bigger your face. It's often to the point of absurdity. Right bang smack in the middle of the covid pandemic in Thailand a lady up the road from us had her son become a monk and she went the whole 9-yards with the massive sound system blocking the road. My wife went to the party, she told me everyone wore masks, but due to the deafening volume everyone had to lean in close together to hear what each other was saying, and of course this was at a time when everyone was supposed to be social distancing.

[giddyup]

20 hours ago, Stevey said:

 I remember my first funeral here. I'd met the woman 6months previous and she was really nice. A change from the usual Isaan know it all fishwives. She was 50 and it was mid 2022 and I heard about how she had suddenly been diagnosed with a cancer of sorts and saw a pic of her in hospital with swollen eyes. Within a week she was history. 

 

The girlfriend asked me along to the Ngarn Sop funeral but anticipating a lot of sadness I declined although I did make a good connection with her when we'd met before. 

 

I spotted my girlfriend on the map with her sharinoher iPhone positioned. I guess that the pre funeral was over and they were at the ' Tee Pow' burning place. I made my way up there. I was alone in the forest, everyone had gone back post the ceremony. I was surprised to find that the Tee Pow was in a clearing in a forest and didn't have the usual white structure for cremation but there was brick surrounded pit on the floor where a fire was burning. As I made my way closer I realised that she was on fire. This cremation was done publicly. A roaring fire had been created and she had been placed on top. I didn't get to close or look to hard but it was an eerie sight. 

 

I made my way back to the house in the village. Everyone was there laughing and joking like it was a wedding. I , as a Falang with an actual soul, was emotional inside but the family seemed quite jovial about it all. 

 

Next was the night time doo where I learned more about these people. She was one of 9 siblings. Her mother is the sister of  my girlfriend's Father. It seems having 8 kids back then was common. I sat amongst the family and visitors and detected an undertone of sadness. I sat near her mother in her mid 70's who sat alone. I think she was very upset. I heard  a man laughing on our table with one of the relatives that it's good for people to die so he can have a party, dark humour indeed. 

 

I heard that some of the men had to go back and retrieve some bone from the funeral pyre. And then it was all over.

 

I have always been of the thinking that burial is such opulence taking up valuable ground but after seeing so many people disappear which put a trace here I am in two minds. I’ve buried every cat and dog I’ve owned and feel they are still around but under the ground. There is just something so final about cremation that I can’t get my head around it. The last dog I buried a few weeks ago I dug a hole for out of respect. One final effort of sweat to counter the lack of effort the in vaccinating it against the distemper virus it had succumbed to. My Thai girlfriend would have thrown her in a refuse bin. Such is the divide in respect for a person and a dog who can similarly dream and feel pain and distress at being lost from its owner.  Although in my experience has no concept that some one is missing  from the group.

 

Respect would have been to get the dog vaccinated.

[connda]

Once you are dead, your body is nothing more than a rotting organic object.  Cremation is quick and clean. 

Also - Westerners have a morbid and perverse fear of death as well as the aftermath of death.
Funeral are morbid affairs in the West, well except in places like Louisiana where the Creole speakers have "Wakes." 

We live on the road to the crematorium in our village.  I've probably seen 100 bodies pulled by travailing from our Buddhist temple to the crematorium grounds over the last 17 years.  I've also participated in the three day Ngaan Sop¹ (festival for the dead-body) of friends and relatives.  Yeah, you see some teary-eyed people, why not, you'll miss those people.  But overall the Ngaan Sop funerals and the cremations are not the same morbid affairs you see in the West.  And afterwards there is almost always a wake.  I attended my first probably 14 years ago in Isaan.  The family had a stage erected with a band and dancing gals.  It was one hell of a party.  So, unless you've lived here and integrated into Thai society and are a Buddhist, you're probably going to have a problem grasping the cultural and religious differences and significances. 

By the way - I highly recommend attending a Ngaan Sop if one has the chance.  It's an interesting view into how Thai cultural approaches the topic of death in the heart of Theravada Buddhism.  And it ain't morbid in the least.

¹ Ngaan (festival), Sop (dead body)

 

Edited February 6 by connda

[connda]

21 hours ago, Stevey said:

As I made my way closer I realised that she was on fire. This cremation was done publicly. A roaring fire had been created and she had been placed on top. I didn't get to close or look to hard but it was an eerie sight. 

As I said.  Westerners have a perverse and illogical fear of dead-bodies and death in general.  Look at a body as nothing more than a rotting log.  It's "light's out, there is nobody home."  Reflect on that and you can see that open air cremation in a different light. The modern gas crematoriums are repetitively new devices.  Open-air cremations were the norm historically in the past.

Really.  I find the aversion farangs have to this as amusing.  TIT.  As the old saying goes: "When in Rome..."

 

Edited February 6 by connda

[dick turpin]

Just returned from the home village in Isaan

where there has been a spate of passings,

so the red shirts are out in force on the

gate post to ward off the evil spirits.

 

Used to think they were all Liverpool

supporters.

Edited February 6 by dick turpin

[connda]

20 hours ago, it is what it is said:

 

backpacking in india i stayed at a hostel near the ghats in varanassi, it was a common site to see not only bodies being carried through the streets on the way to the ghats, but also see the bodies being burnt. and if the wind was blowing in a certain direction there was a particular smell at breakfast on the veranda.

 

regarding thai funerals, what struck me most was having a photographer present to record the event.

Of course.  It is a major cultural event.  Having photographer is not unusual at all. Especially during the time that the Buddhist laity present the Chanting Monks with gifts like robes.  It is part and parcel of Thai cultural and Buddhist tradition.

[connda]

19 hours ago, kimamey said:

 

It seems to differ depending on the area. In some cases there seems to be 4 days of visits by monks, which is for the deceased according to my wife, and then 4 more after the funeral for those left behind. 

Up to 100 days.  Jing!

[connda]

19 hours ago, kimamey said:

They had a normal cremation building but the coffin had an ornate canopy over it which made it too big for the oven.

This is a typical Thai funeral.  Most villages have "funeral funds" that the villagers pay into every time someone dies.  Over a life-time, that can amount to a significant amount of money.  The pay-out to the families of the dead in our village is 200K THB.  Most families blow the entire amount on ornate caskets and canopies as well as the three day Ngaan Sop (festival for the dead). 

At the funeral grounds, if there is a gas crematorium, after the casket is placed in the oven, the canopy is placed on a cement structure which looks like a foundation for a building.  It is then burnt as well.  I've got pictures somewhere.
Watching these events really give you insight into one key aspect of Thai Buddhist culture.  "Life is not certain; only death is certain."  So here in the Land of Different Cultural Practices Than The West, well, it's just different. 

So embrace it.  It is sure a healthier perspective than the morbidity of Western funerals.