Can owner refuse deposit after extending a 1 year contract

[karl2007]

I signed a 1 year contract in August 2022 to August 2023 . It was 10,000 in advance, and 20,000 deposit.

 

The rent I pay is 10,000 a month. As I have changed jobs I need to more to another location. August 2023 I told her I would extend but there was no talk about the deposit. And this was just a verbal agreement so no contract was signed to extend.

 

I have spoken to the owner to give her notice and she said that I will not get my 20,000 back as I would have to wait until August 2024. I explained that I have completed the contract for the first year.

 

Just a side question I paid 1 month in advance on the first day I moved in along with the 20,000.

 

i.e. 1st August 10,000 + 20,000. August 31 I paid my first months rent.

 

My final day would be 31 March. So I would not need to pay for this month as I paid 10,000 in advanced?

 

Thanks for any suggestions,

 

 

 

 

[Bill97]

1 hour ago, karl2007 said:

August 2023 I told her I would extend

How long did you agree to extend?

[karl2007]

17 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

How long did you agree to extend?

We agreed to extend another year.

[Upnotover]

6 minutes ago, karl2007 said:

We agreed to extend another year.

I think you have answered your own question.  You have broken the agreement you made, it seems reasonable she does not repay your deposit.  If you also want to try not paying the final month you want to stay good luck with that, you might find yourself locked out.

[JimTripper]

Technically you deserve the deposit back at the end as it says on the lease that you both signed. A verbal agreement does not override a signed lease.

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, karl2007 said:

Just a side question I paid 1 month in advance on the first day I moved in along with the 20,000.

 

i.e. 1st August 10,000 + 20,000. August 31 I paid my first months rent.

 

My final day would be 31 March. So I would not need to pay for this month as I paid 10,000 in advanced?

 

Thanks for any suggestions,

 

 

 

 

 

You paid in advance so you paid the first month's rent with 10,000 baht on 1st August and the second month's rent for September on August 31. You pay the rent for March on 1 March so if you're leaving on 31 March you shouldn't pay the rent for April. 

[scoutman360]

If I understand you correctly, you verbally told her you would extend another year, but after you told her that, you found out you needed to move. So now she is saying you can't get your deposit back because you verbally told her you will extend and you are now breaking the new agreement.

 

In her eyes, you are breaking the new verbal agreement. You need to find out if verbal agreements are legally binding in Thailand. That seems to be where you are at. 

[Drumbuie]

18 hours ago, karl2007 said:

I signed a 1 year contract in August 2022 to August 2023 . It was 10,000 in advance, and 20,000 deposit.

 

The rent I pay is 10,000 a month. As I have changed jobs I need to more to another location. August 2023 I told her I would extend but there was no talk about the deposit. And this was just a verbal agreement so no contract was signed to extend.

 

I have spoken to the owner to give her notice and she said that I will not get my 20,000 back as I would have to wait until August 2024. I explained that I have completed the contract for the first year.

 

Just a side question I paid 1 month in advance on the first day I moved in along with the 20,000.

 

i.e. 1st August 10,000 + 20,000. August 31 I paid my first months rent.

 

My final day would be 31 March. So I would not need to pay for this month as I paid 10,000 in advanced?

 

Thanks for any suggestions,

 

 

 

 

The short answer is "yes, she can refuse to return your deposit". The long answer is that you renewed your one year contract verbally and are now breaking that verbal contract,  so you have no way to force her to return your deposit.

 

If you don't pay the final month's rent you're unlikely to see any of the deposit back at all. The original written contract may well have had a clause prohbiting the use of deposit money in lieu of rental, in which case you've again broken the contract. 

 

If you were likely to have to move, it might have been worth negotiating a rolling month by month contract when the first one ended - but in any case a written and signed memorandum of agreement would have made things clear to both parties. That's what contracts are for. 

 

[keithkarmann]

I extended my one year lease to a five year written lease. I wanted to leave about three years into the five years and the owner refused to return my 30000 deposit. Technically  he was right but when you consider I had paid the owner about 720000 baht over a four year period I think he was a bit mean. So we left the place in a mess and did not pay the last month's rent.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, keithkarmann said:

I extended my one year lease to a five year written lease. I wanted to leave about three years into the five years and the owner refused to return my 30000 deposit. Technically  he was right but when you consider I had paid the owner about 720000 baht over a four year period I think he was a bit mean. So we left the place in a mess and did not pay the last month's rent.

I assume you registered your lease at the land Office.  All leases 3 years and over have to be registered and taxes paid on them or they are invalid.

[Straight8]

18 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

If I understand you correctly, you verbally told her you would extend another year, but after you told her that, you found out you needed to move. So now she is saying you can't get your deposit back because you verbally told her you will extend and you are now breaking the new agreement.

 

In her eyes, you are breaking the new verbal agreement. You need to find out if verbal agreements are legally binding in Thailand. That seems to be where you are at. 

 

Since he is a falang, most likely it would be binding (or a way will be found for it to be), so lets say if he went to the Police and asked but I'd bet it may have been a bit different if he were a Thai National.

 

yeah, TiT.

[Srikcir]

18 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

You need to find out if verbal agreements are legally binding in Thailand.

Having witnesses to an oral agreement is particularly validating. But I don't understand the issue as it's minor to write a new lease or a witnessed lease update page to supercede the original lease for another year term.

[Iron Tongue]

Verbal agreements are legally binding, especially since you don't have anything written.

And since you are breaking this agreement, the landlord can keep your deposit as Liquidated Damages.  This is kept in lieu of other legal mechanisms such as using the courts to force you to comply with your one-year verbal contract.

Just walk away.  You broke an agreement and expect the Landlord to be happy about it.

[thenewgoo]

I had a similar experience. In the end, we agreed that if we weren't going to make a new lease, 3 months notice from either party was fair. That went on for years no problem, then she jacked the rent up in a new lease. We decided to leave, within 3 months, it was all good and amicable.  We found another house. Her newly inflated rental went empty for 18 months and she ended up trying to sell it. 

Anyway, not sure what my point was but I hoped you liked my story.

Oh yes, talk to her and work something out - she is within her rights and holds all the cards (and your deposit).

[The Theory]

23 hours ago, karl2007 said:

August 2023 I told her I would extend but there was no talk about the deposit.

Why not month to month after a year contract?!!! 🤔 this is usually the way, isn't it ? 

[john donson]

seems simple, verbal agreement to extend, pay till august or lose 2 months...

[LukKrueng]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:17 PM, JimTripper said:

Technically you deserve the deposit back at the end as it says on the lease that you both signed. A verbal agreement does not override a signed lease.

The verbal agreement was for a second year, not the first. In Thailand a verbal agreement is regarded as a contact.

[LukKrueng]

9 hours ago, Straight8 said:

 

Since he is a falang, most likely it would be binding (or a way will be found for it to be), so lets say if he went to the Police and asked but I'd bet it may have been a bit different if he were a Thai National.

 

yeah, TiT.

You're wrong. Verbal agreements are legally binding for all, Thai or non Thai

[JimTripper]

7 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

The verbal agreement was for a second year, not the first. In Thailand a verbal agreement is regarded as a contact.

They still deserve the deposit back for the first year written contract. They would need to pay another deposit for the new verbal contract.

 

A written contract would need to be extended in writing. You can't flip flop between written and verbal.

[Straight8]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:31 AM, LukKrueng said:

You're wrong. Verbal agreements are legally binding for all, Thai or non Thai

Really, how will it be proven?

 

It will be a case of he said, she said.

 

 

[Iron Tongue]

15 hours ago, Straight8 said:

Really, how will it be proven?

 

It will be a case of he said, she said.

 

 

If you weren't aware that verbal agreements are enforceable, you should speak to an attorney.

As for this situation, since the renter continued to pay rent and live in the rental after the original expiration of the lease, it is entirely reasonable that both parties had verbally agreed to extend the lease by another year.

If the renter breaks this agreement, then the deposit will be kept by the landlord as Liquidated Damages.

[mrwebb8825]

On 2/11/2024 at 6:36 AM, karl2007 said:

I signed a 1 year contract in August 2022 to August 2023 . It was 10,000 in advance, and 20,000 deposit.

 

The rent I pay is 10,000 a month. As I have changed jobs I need to more to another location. August 2023 I told her I would extend but there was no talk about the deposit. And this was just a verbal agreement so no contract was signed to extend.

 

I have spoken to the owner to give her notice and she said that I will not get my 20,000 back as I would have to wait until August 2024. I explained that I have completed the contract for the first year.

 

Just a side question I paid 1 month in advance on the first day I moved in along with the 20,000.

 

i.e. 1st August 10,000 + 20,000. August 31 I paid my first months rent.

 

My final day would be 31 March. So I would not need to pay for this month as I paid 10,000 in advanced?

 

Thanks for any suggestions,

 

 

 

 

If you move the end of March you'd still owe 5 months rent to complete the contract anyway which would be an automatic forfeiture of the deposit.

By staying past the end of August '23 you basically renewed the contract until August '24. IF she pursues you in court you would end up paying the remaining 50k plus lose the deposit and MAY have to pay legal costs and court fees.

Best case scenario, she doesn't want the hassle and you run away like a thief in the night OR you put up with the new commute for 5 more months giving 30 days notice at the end of July '24.

[Upnotover]

On 2/14/2024 at 8:00 AM, Straight8 said:

It will be a case of he said, she said.

I think you're right.  He said "I want to extend the contract 1 year".  She said "OK".