The "Exodus" of European Farangs, The Trap.

[Jonathan Swift]

54 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Please specify what is a FAT wallet, How much are you talking about otherwise you are just fearmongering.

Common sense from experience is fearmongering? Hardly. A little bit of fear in this case is appropriate. Do you ever read the stories here? He is advising caution and sensible financial planning. He  doesn't owe you an elaborate description. You have to figure that out for yourself. No one's going to babysit you or lead you by the hand.  If you don't get the point, you probably shouldn't be reading this publication. Maybe you shouldn't be living here. Here's what you didn't get: A fat wallet will differ for different people. It's a matter of personal choice to measure the calculated risks of living here against your financial situation. For me personally, I make a tiny $1600 US/month social security. But I keep a $10,000.00 US emergency fund in my US bank. Beyond that I have a mutual fund that I can tap into if need be. Worst comes to worst I can fly back to the US and be covered by medicare for anything serious. Which I may be doing. After a high PSA blood test and an MRI, I need a biopsy to screen for prostate cancer. I had money enough thus far, and if I need surgery and other treatment I will fly back to the US where I have Medicare. 

[noobexpat]

Just now, brianthainess said:

Did you miss some zeros out? 

 

To everybody else, its pretty obvious it was to demonstrate a principle ...rather than an arbitrary number.

 

Bit worrying you couldn’t see that.

 

[CDG931]

 

Life in Thailand is a blissful experience. It really is.

But if something bad happens, you are on your own. 

Gandhi said “A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”  This is so true

 

 

[brianthainess]

15 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

Bit worrying you couldn’t see that.

Bit worrying you couldn't answer the question but just want to flame me, as your OP is just BS.

 

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, CDG931 said:

Life in Thailand is a blissful experience. It really is.

But if something bad happens, you are on your own. 

Gandhi said “A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”  This is so true

This from a guy who's country still has a whole class of people (Dalits) called 'untouchables' 

 

As many as 200 million, and more than most country's whole population.

[Wrwest]

On 2/12/2024 at 2:09 AM, swissie said:

In Europe, an increasing number of pensioneers relocate to "third world countries" as the pension benefits will not allow for a "decent-living" in their home countries anymore. (Political discussions concerning this matter are in full swing in Europe).

THE TRAP: Those undercapitalised "pensioneer-fugitives" have not the financial means to cover lenghty hospital costs nor are they able to pay for any private health insurance.

Only conclusion: Unless you have a fat wallet, stay in your home country once you have qualified yourself as "an old men" with limited financial resources.

- There was once a movie "No country for old men". Unless one has a fat wallet, Thailand is also just a "No country for old men".

Hopes, of finding financial relief by the "Thai-Family" or the Embassy of the home country in case of financial emergency are usually dashed quickly.

A tropical Paradise without a fat wallet is not available. Nowhere. Have known a numer of undercapitalised Farangs, claiming that upon their demise, they will die in their bed in Thailand. But those were exactly the ones that have run up astronomical hospital bills in the end. Much to the disadvantage of the Thai Hospital and Thai Society.

Again: Unless well capitalised, "Thailand is no country for old men". No matter how young your Thai Wife is.

 

So, what constitutes, “well capitalized”? Just raising the question. I just turned 77 here in Chiang Mai use the 65K monthly minimum transfer as we spend that much generally every month. 12 1/2 years and counting, quite content living a working middle class retirement that I cannot afford in my home country.

[Wrwest]

20 hours ago, Presnock said:

Yes I too am an American retiree on a govt pension (lucky I got it when it was good and with govt health insurance (not cheap either) and I hear from friends in he US and family, yes the picture is not very good.  Added to the normal inflation and the COVID (over 500 pharma billionaires created during the pandemic) recovery, are the 300K illegal immigrants pouring in monthly over the southern borders which means that all the democratic controlled cities have to rapidly increase the public taxes to pay for housing, food, schooling, travel etc for the illegal migrants.  Citizens of states like California and NY are fleeing by the hundreds of thousands yearly because the taxes are so high and the average person cannot even afford to buy a house anymore.   For example in San Franscisco, Calf, there are no houses available under a million US dollars.  Also, the cost of living in the US causes over 600,000 US workers to live in Mexico, drive to the border and enter the US to go to their work place every morning and then back to Mexico as the work day is done!  I much prefer to live here in what I considered paradise in 2005 when I retired - yeah it isn't perfect but it is still paradise in comparison in my opinion.  Married to a Thai and we had plans to take our daughter to the US for college, got accepted, got scholarships but due to the backlog of immigrants in the US, it took over a year to get my wife's approval to take our daughter back for college...so instead she is now a student at the #1 university in Thailand - yeah Thailand, doing an arts degree so that sheet of paper will mean the same just about anywhere!  Wife and I are happy, daughter is super happy, doing well in college - a great life here if one considers some of the alternatives!

Agree with most but the addendum is that Democrat majority states are not alone in folks not affording to live there. My working life was spent in Kentucky and I found it would be a challenge to live a working middle class retirement on my sustainable $2400 usd per month ($1570 of that from SS). Quite comfortable on my 65K baht per month here in support of family of 3.

[Stevemercer]

I am married to a former government worker (retired teacher) and am covered by her social security. So I get free treatment at government hospitals which includes medications dispensed at the hospital and coverage for existing conditions. I have regular appointments with specialists at government hospitals for my depression, urological problems, glaucoma and cholesterol.

 

It certainly works out more convenient and cheaper for me than in Australia where I had to pay about $2,500 (50,000 Baht) after Medicare rebate/refunds per year, mainly for specialists and prescription medicines. I also don't have to worry about getting specialist referrals from my 'family doctor' like in Australia.

 

So I am saving 50,000 Baht per year. While I am thinking about returning to Australia, I am worried that I might be better off (medically speaking) staying in Thailand.

[OneMoreFarang]

On 2/12/2024 at 2:09 AM, swissie said:

Only conclusion: Unless you have a fat wallet, stay in your home country once you have qualified yourself as "an old men" with limited financial resources.

Really?

I thought they have the EU over there and pensionaries can relocate anywhere in the EU i.e. to a warmer place and still get their health cost covered.

At least I think it's like that. But I never looked at the details. 

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

Bit worrying you couldn't answer the question but just want to flame me, as your OP is just BS.

 

 

What the heck is your problem?

Why do you need someone else's opinion - you are allowed to have your own version of a fat wallet. 

 

Unless its too late of course. Then that would explain the attitude 😉

 

 

(I can tell you mine, but nobody wants to hear it)

[brianthainess]

3 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

What the heck is your problem?

Why do you need someone else's opinion - you are allowed to have your own version of a fat wallet. 

 

Unless its too late of course. Then that would explain the attitude 😉

 

 

(I can tell you mine, but nobody wants to hear it)

Flaming again, I am quite well funded thank you and have been here 20+ years, so again what is a fat wallet? You do seem to have a problem, are you jealous of others having enough to live here comfortably? There is no "exodus" of falangs  as such. 

[Harveyboy]

On 2/12/2024 at 3:25 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I gave that a laugh emoji as I assume it was supposed to be satire.

True..not virtually free but completely free my wife is a government official her pay is crap but the perks are good all of our family covered for all medical expenses..just as well as I e been hospitalised a few times ..

[Nemises]

25 minutes ago, Harveyboy said:

True..not virtually free but completely free my wife is a government official her pay is crap but the perks are good all of our family covered for all medical expenses..just as well as I e been hospitalised a few times ..

 

Good to hear! Wonder why so many on here don’t believe what you’re saying is true?

 

 

 

[noobexpat]

26 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Flaming again, I am quite well funded thank you and have been here 20+ years, so again what is a fat wallet? You do seem to have a problem, are you jealous of others having enough to live here comfortably? There is no "exodus" of falangs  as such. 

 

100m baht by mid to late 50's. Thats my fat wallet.

20 years after that it should quadruple using about 7.3% pa.

Hence my time-value point above.

 

Why you think i care about you is a mystery to me.

I'm guessing we are decades apart on the timelines.

You comparing to me is silly unless you discount your capital by the age difference.

 

 

I didn't say anything about an exodus??

 

[CygnusX1]

2 hours ago, noobexpat said:

Not quite that simple.

50 year old with 100 baht.

70 year old with 400 baht.

Can be argued they both have the same (to demonstrate the time-value of money).

I’d argue that it’s the other way around. If you’re retired, the older you are, the less savings you need, as there won’t be as many years in which to spend it all.

[habuspasha]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you don't even know your own name, why would it matter where you were or what you were wearing?

Dementia does not decrease or eliminate the need for creature comforts.  It might create a level of anxiety that makes basic comforts more important.  We do not know the inner life of a dementia sufferer, but we shouldn't assume it is pleasant oblivion.

[noobexpat]

31 minutes ago, CygnusX1 said:

I’d argue that it’s the other way around. If you’re retired, the older you are, the less savings you need, as there won’t be as many years in which to spend it all.

 

I agree but health costs can negate that argument IMO.

 

But the principal is for when grumpy old brian feels the need to compete. I actually think he's mistaken me for the guy who write the original post. If so 🙄

 

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, CDG931 said:

 

Life in Thailand is a blissful experience. It really is.

But if something bad happens, you are on your own. 

Gandhi said “A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.”  This is so true

 

 

 

I've seen expats who survived only by relying on their Thai wives, or, in one case, Thai neighbors. Thais often help drivers who've had accidents. Thai SS helps many expats, who've worked at Thai companies, with medical expenses.

 

But long-term free support & medical services--you got no right to expect that. What budget there is should be spent for Thais themselves. 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you don't even know your own name, why would it matter where you were or what you were wearing?

 

Long as nobody put a pair of elephant pants on you. That's the real worry around here.

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Flaming again, I am quite well funded thank you and have been here 20+ years, so again what is a fat wallet? You do seem to have a problem, are you jealous of others having enough to live here comfortably? There is no "exodus" of falangs  as such. 

 

It's terribly worrisome that some expats can easily afford to buy condos while he's trying to build his nut and sweating rent. Yet another ANF Financial Expert dazzling all the simpletons. 🙂 

[noobexpat]

5 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

. Another ANF financial expert.

 

Under 50's gbp millionaire from my finance business. 

So not doing too bad.

 

There is generally a lot of public saltiness when it comes to finance knowledge. Its peculiar. 

 

[BigStar]

33 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

Under 50's gbp millionaire from my finance business. 

So not doing too bad.

 

There is generally a lot of public saltiness when it comes to finance knowledge. Its peculiar. 

 

 

LOL. BS is extremely common on the 'net, "its" [sic] not in the least peculiar. 🙂 So we got lots of posters here proclaiming their expertise on every conceivable subject. Many are, of course, quite wealthy and regularly appear on the Sunday Times Rich List. High percentage of renters, by some coincidence, worried about people who own condos. Now, can you afford aircon in your rented room, or are you saving by just using the fan?

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

This from a guy who's country still has a whole class of people (Dalits) called 'untouchables' 

 

As many as 200 million, and more than most country's whole population.

 

Ghandi wasn't saying that India was "great" ... you seem to have missed the point?

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

100m baht by mid to late 50's. Thats my fat wallet.

20 years after that it should quadruple using about 7.3% pa.

Hence my time-value point above.

 

 

My 'retirement target' is a kind of moving thing, but a few years ago I reckoned I could pretty much do anything for the rest of my life on about $2m, but more would be welcome and 100-150m Baht seems very reasonable for a worry free life in a nice house or two with plenty of room for more investment income than most people dream about earning during their working life.

 

I'll do it as well. Settling for 7.3% pa is very conservative - there's plenty of room for a little more risk with some percentage of your funds - all depends on how you invest it of course.

 

I know a guy with about $10m and it's all in US treasuries 🙄

 

[JackGats]

On 2/12/2024 at 8:08 AM, BE88 said:

 

...

what happened during Covid is proof that governments in Europe want to eliminate elderly people by all means, some countries such as France and Italy have systematically eliminated elderly people in hospitals by giving medicines to make them die quickly .

 

What Thailand has not done is that their culture still respects elderly people, while in Europe an elderly person is the main license plate to be eliminated with low pensions at the limit of physical food survival, hoping that they will die soon.

 

...

Those who have no choice and a sad end is destined for them, pushed by their own children, depositing them in infamous retirement homes in Europe.

 

Not true that elderly people in France were euthanized against their will. Quite the opposite, successive French governments have torpedoed any reasonable euthanasia bills.

 

Infamous retirement homes are a reality. But selfish old people who don't want to die are also a problem. Bring children into this world who never asked to be born, then expect the latter to sacrifice their lives caring for the old who live to be a hundred thanks to alzheimer's. There are 2 sides of the coin. Parents are entitled to have a life, but so are the children they selfishly catapulted into this world.

[noobexpat]

20 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

My 'retirement target' is a kind of moving thing, but a few years ago I reckoned I could pretty much do anything for the rest of my life on about $2m, but more would be welcome and 100-150m Baht seems very reasonable for a worry free life in a nice house or two with plenty of room for more investment income than most people dream about earning during their working life.

 

I'll do it as well. Settling for 7.3% pa is very conservative - there's plenty of room for a little more risk with some percentage of your funds - all depends on how you invest it of course.

 

I know a guy with about $10m and it's all in US treasuries 🙄

 

 

Great that you have a plan and on track. 

The 7.3% is basically 4^(1/20) calculation. Its the 20 year quadrupling percentage, with compounding. 

 

I'm 80:20 ...global equity trackers to equity managed funds. Obviously excluding cash.

 

I never intend to sell, only drawdown but it will be a long time before that starts. I guess when you get to 10m usd why bother investing!

 

[ukrules]

9 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

I guess when you get to 10m usd why bother investing!

 

Yes I guess, also he spent his life in finance, I think he'd had enough of it by the time he retired to tell the truth.

 

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

 

LOL. BS is extremely common on the 'net, "its" [sic] not in the least peculiar. 🙂 So we got lots of posters here proclaiming their expertise on every conceivable subject. Many are, of course, quite wealthy and regularly appear on the Sunday Times Rich List. High percentage of renters, by some coincidence, worried about people who own condos. Now, can you afford aircon in your rented room, or are you saving by just using the fan?

 

You're a broken record.

I have no interest in buying a condo right now.

Its a simple decision 😃

[BE88]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

Not true that elderly people in France were euthanized against their will. Quite the opposite, successive French governments have torpedoed any reasonable euthanasia bills.

 

Infamous retirement homes are a reality. But selfish old people who don't want to die are also a problem. Bring children into this world who never asked to be born, then expect the latter to sacrifice their lives caring for the old who live to be a hundred thanks to alzheimer's. There are 2 sides of the coin. Parents are entitled to have a life, but so are the children they selfishly catapulted into this world.

 

Thousands of nurses and doctors in hospitals have resigned because they had sworn the sacrament of Hippocrates for the denial of care to the elderly and the administration of medicines that shortened their lives, it was a real euthanasia on a large scale in addition doctors and nurses to refusing the Covid vaccination .

 

About your second statement.  Then I hope to live in a parallel world, because in your selfish world,  I refuse to live.

 

[biggles45]

"It’s rather unfair for expats to foist care costs on to the Thai taxpayer. " 

 

Heard this often but everyone I know, lived here for 10+ years and still visit, has always been asked to prove their ability to pay before admission.