Crypto Trading/Investing 2024 - Zero Taxes if Resident in Thailand ?

[freedomnow]

It looks like no taxes for trading permanent if you trade on approved Thai platforms ?

Of course a member may jump in and say I'm wrong...am here to learn from the wise men on this thread....👍

 

https://www.techopedia.com/thailand-offers-crypto-tax-breaks

Am not sure these approved platforms can be easily joined by foreigners ?

 

Just looking to follow the rules vs trying to game anything and it catching up with me in future if resident long-term back in Thailand (currently away overseas but looking to relocate back if this is the case)...zero tax for traders or long-term investors ?

 

 

[freedomnow]

So from the article it states :-

 

<<This makes it permanent for transactions conducted through Thailand’s licensed digital asset exchange operators, including trades done by licensed brokers and dealers.>>

 

So just have to check an exchange is licensed operator within the border to qualify for zero tax.

I think the UK is 10% or 20% depending on your income tax bracket.

[timendres]

Quote

The decision exempts traders from the 7% value-added tax (VAT) on earnings derived from trading cryptocurrencies and digital tokens, as reported by local news outlets.

 

If I read this correctly, the exemption applies only to VAT, not income or capital gains taxes.

In other words, brokers will not have to pay 7% VAT on transactions they perform trading.

However, I believe that if you realize a gain on your trading, you will still likely be liable for

income and/or capital gains taxes.

[ukrules]

9 minutes ago, timendres said:

 

If I read this correctly, the exemption applies only to VAT, not income or capital gains taxes.

In other words, brokers will not have to pay 7% VAT on transactions they perform trading.

However, I believe that if you realize a gain on your trading, you will still likely be liable for

income and/or capital gains taxes.

 

Correct which means personal income tax rates apply, that they wanted 7% on top of this was an industry killer.

 

What Thailand needs is a bunch of crypto ETFs which are treated the same as all other stock exchange funds - which means you are not taxed on profits, only dividends - of which there would be none in an ETF holding only crypto.

 

So - when will Thailand get a Bitcoin ETF which makes it tax efficient to invest?

 

[freedomnow]

Is it a fixed rate of 15% for CGT on crypto ?

[freedomnow]

Oh well, I had a couple hours of joy thinking Thailand had joined the ranks of Malaysia and Singapore with zero CGT on crypto....

Even worth living in Malaysia enough of the year for tax purposes if not a trader but investor under their rules.

 

https://coinledger.io/blog/crypto-tax-free-countries

[save the frogs]

Just heard there are 19 million bitcoins in existence.

And the highest it will go is 21 million?

Not even sure what that means though. 

 

[stoner]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Just heard there are 19 million bitcoins in existence.

And the highest it will go is 21 million?

Not even sure what that means though. 

 

 

there was only 21 million created by *satoshi*

 

mining and solving the blockchain equation (or whatever) is how the remaining ones come to the public. then traded etc.

 

worth noting..... it is said approx 4 to 5 million btc have been lost for good. destroyed computers. lost ledgers. lockout passwords. and so on.

 

whoever satoshi is has 1 million on a ledger. so there is really only approx 15 or 16 million. 

[freedomnow]

This just means people won't be double taxed right ?

 

Basically its an income tax exemption but not a CGT exemption so the 15%

still stands....

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/thailand-tax-exemption-token-earnings

[Conno]

Typical clear as mud statement. What's an investment token first off?  I'm sure it isn't Bitcoin and the main Alts so don't get too excited. You will still be taxed as personal income on all crypto sales regardless what the implications of this policy announcement really means. 

 

From the link to the main story from the publication that can not be relinked here.

 

The exclusion is limited to 100,000 baht per tax year and is valid until Dec 31st 2026 

 

555555 that's going to attract millions of crypto millionaires then. Digital Hub my backside, clueless as usual. The powers that be hate crypto it's obvious. It's a threat to the old legacy traditional system which is crumbling before our very eyes. They can't stop crypto so they will carry on kicking and screaming to the very end. Then they will have no choice. 

 

Who was it that said 'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win' Gandi maybe? 

[JBChiangRai]

If you are tax resident and sell crypto the following applies...

 

If you bought them on a registered Thai exchange you pay income tax on the profit

 

Or

 

If you bought them overseas or cannot prove you bought them here, you pay 15% tax on the full sales value when you submit a tax return

 

 

[khunphil]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:46 AM, JBChiangRai said:

If you are tax resident and sell crypto the following applies...

 

If you bought them on a registered Thai exchange you pay income tax on the profit

 

Or

 

If you bought them overseas or cannot prove you bought them here, you pay 15% tax on the full sales value when you submit a tax return

 

 

Hi ... and by selling, you mean ... selling to USD or THB, and./or money transfer to your Thai Bank account ... but not exchanging to stablecoins (or other cryptos) on exchange ...

[JBChiangRai]

3 hours ago, khunphil said:

Hi ... and by selling, you mean ... selling to USD or THB, and./or money transfer to your Thai Bank account ... but not exchanging to stablecoins (or other cryptos) on exchange ...

 

Stablecoins bought elsewhere you still incur 15% tax on sale, they have thought about that!

[freedomnow]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Stablecoins bought elsewhere you still incur 15% tax on sale, they have thought about that!

Well there should no profit on them pegged, but that is just daft.

From what I read on the main crypto platform they are no complied to reveal customer data. I'm guessing here that most are not giving a ***** on profit reporting that are based in Thailand and this has something to do with OTC cash-outs.

 

All the UK platforms have to share retroactive customer trading data from Jan 2025 I believe.

[khunphil]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Stablecoins bought elsewhere you still incur 15% tax on sale, they have thought about that!

 

Sorry, English is not my native language but, to be sure to understand ... what do you mean by "stablecoins bought somewhere" ... you have bitcoins, you exchange to stablecoins ... you don't "buy" it ... Now if you sold your USDT to USD or even THB ... maybe you occur the tax ... am I right ? Or do you need to transfer to your Thai bank account ?

[Mike Lister]

Thailand’s cabinet on Tuesday approved a tax exemption for crypto earnings to encourage fundraising via investment tokens, multiple local news outlets reported.

Under the exemption, holders of investment tokens that have had the 15% capital gains tax withheld don’t need to include the profits when calculating their income tax, essentially ending a scenario of double taxation, according to one report.

 

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/03/13/thailand-greenlights-income-tax-exemption-for-investment-token-earnings-report/

[JBChiangRai]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Thailand’s cabinet on Tuesday approved a tax exemption for crypto earnings to encourage fundraising via investment tokens, multiple local news outlets reported.

Under the exemption, holders of investment tokens that have had the 15% capital gains tax withheld don’t need to include the profits when calculating their income tax, essentially ending a scenario of double taxation, according to one report.

 

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/03/13/thailand-greenlights-income-tax-exemption-for-investment-token-earnings-report/

 

If you read it carefully, you pay CGT 15% but because you've paid that you don't pay Income tax. In other words one or the other but not double taxation.

 

If you sell any kind of crypto (stablecoins or other) in Thailand, you pay either 15% CGT or Income tax on the profit, to claim just the profit you have to have bought them in Thailand.

 

 

5 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Well there should no profit on them pegged, but that is just daft.

From what I read on the main crypto platform they are no complied to reveal customer data. I'm guessing here that most are not giving a ***** on profit reporting that are based in Thailand and this has something to do with OTC cash-outs.

 

All the UK platforms have to share retroactive customer trading data from Jan 2025 I believe.

 

You are right, it's the same for banks too, they are not compelled to release date to the government, you can opt out on either. If you opt out on your bank, every deposit will have 15% withholding tax deducted by your bank, I am fairly sure you will find the same on crypto exchanges.

[Conno]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

If you read it carefully, you pay CGT 15% but because you've paid that you don't pay Income tax. In other words one or the other but not double taxation.

 

If you sell any kind of crypto (stablecoins or other) in Thailand, you pay either 15% CGT or Income tax on the profit, to claim just the profit you have to have bought them in Thailand.

 

 

 

You are right, it's the same for banks too, they are not compelled to release date to the government, you can opt out on either. If you opt out on your bank, every deposit will have 15% withholding tax deducted by your bank, I am fairly sure you will find the same on crypto exchanges.

You sure about this? Are Investment tokens really 'any kind of crypto'? This announcement appears to me to be related to a very specific type of local digital asset i.e. investment tokens. So who is the 'issuer' of Bitcoin and ETH for example? Satoshi and Vitalik ;-) If what you are saying is correct then why would anyone sell crypto and pay up to 35% under PIT rather than just decide on the 15% CGT route? That's a huge saving in tax if true? Can't see it somehow? I have never sold anything and am a 100% HODLer so can't say from personal experience. 

 

As I said I believe this policy change is related to a very specific type of Thai digital token, something used to encourage fund raising within Thailand as the linked report mentions. I really don't believe this has anything to do with regular crypto coins. Willing to be corrected if you can enlighten me more. I suppose what needs clarifying here is the definition of an investment token from a Thailand perspective. 

 

Apart from individuals, the Thai government also introduced tax breaks for investment token issuers. On March 7, the government announced that corporate income tax and value-added tax (VAT) for investment token issuers had been waived.

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/thailand-tax-exemption-token-earnings

 

According to this link there is no option of choosing between up to 35% PIT and 15% CGT. Everything sold in Thailand is subject to the tiered PIT calculations. Again willing to be corrected if you can provide the info. Cheers

 

https://support.bitkub.com/en/support/solutions/articles/151000033321-cryptocurrency-tax-and-frequently-asked-questions

[Conno]

OK so here's a very hypothetical 'WEN LAMBO' scenario in an attempt to help clarify things.

 

Mr Lambo many moons ago bought a whole Bitcoin when it was $1000 [36,000 Baht] per coin.

 

Being the HODLer type and firm in his belief that BTC was one day going to hit $1m [36,000,000 Baht] per coin, he declared his devotion and became a Bitcoin Maxi refusing to sell a single SAT.

 

In 2030 Mr Lambos dream became a reality and the Bitcoin he bought all those years ago was now sitting at an amazing $1m [36,000,000 Baht]

 

What would his options be? [Apart from moving to Dubai]

 

A/ Sell his BTC for $1m - 36,000,000 Baht with a net gain of $999,000 - 35,964,000 Baht and file a tax return under the 35% PIT system [paying roughly 12,000,000 Baht in tax according to my back of a fag packet calculation] or

 

B/ Move to Dubai.....sorry or

 

B/ Go for the 15% CGT route in which case the tax would only be around 5,394,600 Baht. [See my point that's why the option to choose one or the other can't be correct. I think it is the tiered PIT calculation and no other.]

 

All hypothetical of course, sort of.

 

PS. Yes I am waiting for $1m+ Bitcoin so just need to live long enough.

Smart or delusional? Thrilling ride into 'LAMBO HEAVEN' or a disappointing reality check that it was all an unrealistic dream.

Not asking for advice or comment on the plan by the way, but I'll get some for sure knowing how Asiannow no-coiners love to have a dig.

Just trying to understand what the best options would be? [Move to Dubai]

I've already hoisted my colours to the mast. Glory or Death.  

[Conno]

JBChaingRai - Did a bit of digging for myself. Are these not the 'Investment Tokens' they are referring to? Nothing to do with regular crypto.

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/thailand-eases-restrictions-infrastructure-backed-digital-tokens

 

https://www.legal500.com/developments/thought-leadership/thailands-exemption-of-cit-and-vat-on-transfer-of-digital-investment-token/

[Mike Lister]

8 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

If you read it carefully, you pay CGT 15% but because you've paid that you don't pay Income tax. In other words one or the other but not double taxation.

 

If you sell any kind of crypto (stablecoins or other) in Thailand, you pay either 15% CGT or Income tax on the profit, to claim just the profit you have to have bought them in Thailand.

 

 

 

You are right, it's the same for banks too, they are not compelled to release date to the government, you can opt out on either. If you opt out on your bank, every deposit will have 15% withholding tax deducted by your bank, I am fairly sure you will find the same on crypto exchanges.

"it's the same for banks too, they are not compelled to release date to the government, you can opt out on either".

 

Allowing the Revenue to keep the 15% that was with held does not imply that no data was released to the Revenue. On the contrary, the banks return the same tax data to the Revenue about all customers, across all their holdings and products, regardless. When I file my Thai tax return, I enter my name, Thai Tax Number and the account number of one of my bank accounts and that connects to the interest received and tax that has been with held on all my accounts, at all my Thai banks.

[JBChiangRai]

Apologies, I misread the post, in fact you pay Personal Income Tax (PIT) on the entire amount of crypto if you acquired it overseas and PIT on the profit only if you transacted on a Thai exchange.  The source is Thailand Cryptocurrency Income Personal Tax - SHERRINGS

 

If I have read this wrong, please let me know.

[Dogmatix]

It seemed to me that what they were trying to do was give some limited tax concessions to Thai companies issuing tokens as an alternative to issuing shares. In addition to VAT exemption they offered a flat rate of 15% on distributions made to token holders which would be like dividends which are taxed at a 10% flat rate. 
 

Interest is also subjected to a withholding tax of 15% but it is not a flat rate tax in as much as you have to declare interest earned over 20k and it will taxed at your top marginal tax rate, if this is more than 15% with the withholding tax used as a tax credit. There is a different treatment for dividends in respect of which you can choose to accept the 10% withholding tax and leave it at that without having to pay any more than that but you may claim tax back on the basis of getting a tax credit for the withholding tax and the corporate income tax paid by the company using a slightly complicated formula. The idea for distributions of income to holders of company tokens seems to be that they can accept the 15% withholding tax and don’t have declare it and pay more, if their top tax rate is over 15% but can’t claim a credit for tax paid by the company issuer of the token.
 

in the case of onshore crypto traded there is withholding tax of 15% on gains from a 2016 Royal Decree that has never been implemented because the coup government issued the decree without thinking how this law could be implemented. But anyway the idea was that you had to pay more tax, if your top tax rate was over 15%. That means that you have to declare your gains on a PND 91 tax returns and pay tax on them. If it is a gain on crypto overseas, you pay tax on the gain earned after 1 Jan 2024, if you remit it to Thailand but not otherwise. Thailand has no specific capital gains tax. So you have to lump it in with your income and pay tax at up to 35%.

[stix40]

Guys am I better selling crypto in 

Thailand or 

UK 

Who has the better tax regime 

Thanks 

[how241]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:18 PM, save the frogs said:

Just heard there are 19 million bitcoins in existence.

And the highest it will go is 21 million?

Not even sure what that means though. 

 

Everyone always talks about the 21 million and this is a fixed-limited supply  BUT being the whole bitcoin game is a man-made invention I don't see anything that would actually prevent a consensus from raising the 21 million BTC  to 50 BTC. 

I don't really think this would happen as it might crash the market prices but it's certainly possible .  Any I wrong and this is impossible  ???

[CrossBones]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:46 AM, JBChiangRai said:

If you are tax resident and sell crypto the following applies...

 

If you bought them on a registered Thai exchange you pay income tax on the profit

 

Or

 

If you bought them overseas or cannot prove you bought them here, you pay 15% tax on the full sales value when you submit a tax return

 

 

... if/when you bring the fiat money into thailand ( i think)

[JackGats]

On 3/16/2024 at 1:21 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Apologies, I misread the post, in fact you pay Personal Income Tax (PIT) on the entire amount of crypto if you acquired it overseas and PIT on the profit only if you transacted on a Thai exchange.  The source is Thailand Cryptocurrency Income Personal Tax - SHERRINGS

 

If I have read this wrong, please let me know.

Sherrings seem to have changed the last bit on the lower right. The part that says "that is brought into Thailand is deleted). This means worldwide taxation on BC sales for Thai residents.

 

 

[Gottfrid]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:18 PM, save the frogs said:

Just heard there are 19 million bitcoins in existence.

And the highest it will go is 21 million?

Not even sure what that means though. 

 

It means the difference of existing coins and the ones available is about 2 mill. Does that make it better for you, or was this you way to show you missed the train and are envious of the ones who didn´t?

 

[wimpy]

1 hour ago, Gottfrid said:

It means the difference of existing coins and the ones available is about 2 mill. Does that make it better for you, or was this you way to show you missed the train and are envious of the ones who didn´t?

 

Actually, it means there are 19 million BTC currently in existence and the remaining two million BTC will be mined between now and the year 2140.

[save the frogs]

8 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

It means the difference of existing coins and the ones available is about 2 mill. Does that make it better for you, or was this you way to show you missed the train and are envious of the ones who didn´t?

 

if you got so rich on bitcoin, why are you wasting your time on this forum?

shouldn't you be on a yacht in monaco or sth?