Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Jeff the Chef]

33 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well, you are not getting the desperation leading up to this final conflict, as well the pressure in the region to do something.

 

As UN chief Antony Guterres said.

 

"It is important to also recognise the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum. The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation," he said.

"But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas."

 

The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas, agreed.

 

This is the list of Israeli War Crimes according to Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

[johng]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

but I see you don't doubt the Hamas figures eh............

The casualty figures presented by Palestinian authorities have proven to be reliable in the past.

Isreal/IDF says 13,000 terrorists so we are just supposed take

their word for it ? how do they know who are terrorists, where they wearing t-shirts, carrying Hamas ID cards  perhaps they where tattooed with a terrorist mark... and what about the thousands of innocent men women and CHILDREN  murdered by the IDF ?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

 

The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas, agreed.

 

This is the list of Israeli War Crimes according to Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

This is not a competition but Hamas have committed far more war crimes, think we already discussed that in another topic

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, johng said:

The casualty figures presented by Palestinian authorities have proven to be reliable in the past.

Isreal/IDF says 13,000 terrorists so we are just supposed take

their word for it ? how do they know who are terrorists, where they wearing t-shirts, carrying Hamas ID cards  perhaps they where tattooed with a terrorist mark... and what about the thousands of innocent men women and CHILDREN  murdered by the IDF ?

The figures are by the Hamas run Gaza health Authority, yes Hamas. Again you have no problem believing their figures but you query figures by IDF

 

Perhaps go to this topic:

 

How the Gaza Ministry of Health Fakes Casualty Numbers

https://aseannow.com/topic/1321887-how-the-gaza-ministry-of-health-fakes-casualty-numbers/

 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Meantime in the day to day war which is what this topic is about.............................

Do you think it is possible to discuss this war day to day? Have a healthy constructive realistic debate on whats going on? In fact there is no realism in the debate at all, it is just banging the head going in circles. 

 

The day to day scenario is children, being bombed, killed, hurt physically and mentally creating new generations of hate. Thats the day to day when a eye to eye philosophy is used in 10 folds or 40. 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hummin said:

Do you think it is possible to discuss this war day to day? Have a healthy constructive realistic debate on whats going on? In fact there is no realism in the debate at all, it is just banging the head going in circles. 

 

The day to day scenario is children, being bombed, killed, hurt physically and mentally creating new generations of hate. Thats the day to day when a eye to eye philosophy is used in 10 folds or 40. 

 

 

Yes

[Jeff the Chef]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not a competition but Hamas have committed far more war crimes, think we already discussed that in another topic

 

So what, this is a humanitarian crisis brought about by a State that has committed War Crimes since its inception.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So what, this is a humanitarian crisis brought about by a State that has committed War Crimes since its inception.

No its a war started on Oct 7th between Hamas and Israel

[johng]

The war started long before October 7th

[Hummin]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're imagining what I think and that is sleazy. 

I do find people that use the colonialization word are the types that don't recognize that Jews are indigenous to Israel. 

I also stand by my assertion that Hamas cares NOTHING about the welfare of their own people, in THIS life anyway,

Well, this is it, when you cant discuss what is the real problem with humanity, and why the mechanisms works as they do, then it is a lost fight, and end of an healthy debate. What we see day to day is based on tolerance of unfair and long time supressing people, and take away their rights to be humans. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Well, this is it, when you cant discuss what is the real problem with humanity, and why the mechanisms works as they do, then it is a lost fight, and end of an healthy debate. What we see day to day is based on tolerance of unfair and long time supressing people, and take away their rights to be humans. 

 

 

Hamas is still on record as intending to repeat October 7s again and again and again until the Jews of Israel are no more.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, johng said:

The war started long before October 7th

No it didn't. The conflict is long lasting. This current war starting October 7.

[Jeff the Chef]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No its a war started on Oct 7th between Hamas and Israel

 

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No it didn't. The conflict is long lasting. This current war starting October 7.

 

You can repeat this mantra till you're both blue in the face, still doesn't wash as far as I'm concerned. 

There will be wars here till Israel accepts a 2 State solution.

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, johng said:

The war started long before October 7th

 

 

   Not another one !!!!!!

This war started on October 7th, but there were previous wars and skirmishes between the two

Hamas supporters  try to avoid being blamed for starting the Oct 7 th war, by claiming that the war started on a previous date , and blame Israel for starting the war .

   Typical dishonest terrorists behaviour

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hamas is still on record as intending to repeat October 7s again and again and again until the Jews of Israel are no more.

Which I state is a natural human response considering all the facts leading up to the last war.

 

I doubt you would had been any different growing up on the other side.

 

At least I admit I might had thought different if I was born in Israel, or was a jew growing up somewhere in Europe. You become a product of your environment.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

You can repeat this mantra till you're both blue in the face, still doesn't wash as far as I'm concerned. 

There will be wars here till Israel accepts a 2 State solution.

Its a fact, whether it washes with you or not. Before Oct 7th there was a ceasefire. 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

You can repeat this mantra till you're both blue in the face, still doesn't wash as far as I'm concerned. 

There will be wars here till Israel accepts a 2 State solution.

I believe that you believe that.

What makes you think that the wars will stop IF there is ever a two state solution?

Anyway, the majority on both sides don't even want a two state solution but I guess for some it's their "white man's burden" to try to force that or at least give lip service to it.

[Jeff the Chef]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its a fact, whether it washes with you or not. Before Oct 7th there was a ceasefire. 

 

Some ceasefire:

 

It depends on when you start the clock. Gaza was created by Israel in 1948, as a refugee camp to contain Palestinians displaced in the Nakba. Since 2007, Israel has kept Gaza under an illegal military siege, counting calories allowed in and permitting the water in Gaza to become undrinkable, creating a humanitarian crises widely condemned by the international community. 

In November 2022, the most right-wing government in Israeli history came to power, led by Benjamin Netanyahu and including far-right extremist politicians in its coalition. 

Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has always been Israeli policy. Over the past year, under the leadership of the most right-wing government in Israeli history, the Israeli military and settlers have led an escalated campaign of displacement, dispossession, and violent repression against Palestinians across Israel and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/#:~:text=Over 12%2C000 Palestinians have been,military's genocidal war on Gaza.

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Which I state is a natural human response considering all the facts leading up to the last war.

 

I doubt you would had been any different growing up on the other side.

 

At least I admit I might had thought different if I was born in Israel, or was a jew growing up somewhere in Europe. You become a product of your environment.

Israel should just leave the doors open for the terrorists?

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I believe that you believe that.

What makes you think that the wars will stop IF there is ever a two state solution?

Anyway, the majority on both sides don't even want a two state solution but I guess for some it's their "white man's burden" to try to force that or at least give lip service to it.

 

So we keep going at it hammer and tong, the Palestinians keep getting abused by Israel, and occasionally have a go back, no one wins here.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Some ceasefire:

 

It depends on when you start the clock. Gaza was created by Israel in 1948, as a refugee camp to contain Palestinians displaced in the Nakba. Since 2007, Israel has kept Gaza under an illegal military siege, counting calories allowed in and permitting the water in Gaza to become undrinkable, creating a humanitarian crises widely condemned by the international community. 

In November 2022, the most right-wing government in Israeli history came to power, led by Benjamin Netanyahu and including far-right extremist politicians in its coalition. 

Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has always been Israeli policy. Over the past year, under the leadership of the most right-wing government in Israeli history, the Israeli military and settlers have led an escalated campaign of displacement, dispossession, and violent repression against Palestinians across Israel and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/#:~:text=Over 12%2C000 Palestinians have been,military's genocidal war on Gaza.

Yes a ceasefire.

 

This is the fifth war that Hamas has provoked since it seized power in Gaza in 2007. Do some basic research and stick to the facts, I know you have a lot of difficulty with that.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So we keep going at it hammer and tong, the Palestinians keep getting abused by Israel, and occasionally have a go back, no one wins here.

Tragic indeed but pie in the sky naivety isn't going to be a winning answer either. The Palestinians are not Canadians.

[Jeff the Chef]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes a ceasefire.

 

This is the fifth war that Hamas has provoked since it seized power in Gaza in 2007. Do some basic research and stick to the facts, I know you have a lot of difficulty with that.

 

Pick a fact, any fact and get some reality:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Pick a fact, any fact and get some reality:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

 

   Those are war crimes that Israel has been accused of committing , they are not actual war crimes .

Just Hamas making accusations and you know what they are like for honesty  

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Pick a fact, any fact and get some reality:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

Deflection from the facts that the war started on Oct 7th 

[Jeff the Chef]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Deflection from the facts that the war started on Oct 7th 

Deflection from the fact that the war started when Israel was created.

[Hummin]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Israel should just leave the doors open for the terrorists?

Free speach comes with responsibility when choosing side, and when not able to have free speach and using comon sense there is mechanisms in humans to fight against to suppressing powers even it comes with consequences.

 

No Israel should not open the doors, but the excessively violence we are witnessing doesnt help jews around the world, or israels case looking at the major world view at the Jews. 

[Nick Carter icp]

17 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So we keep going at it hammer and tong, the Palestinians keep getting abused by Israel, and occasionally have a go back, no one wins here.

 

   Palestians could stop attacking Israel and Israel wouldn't respond to the attacks 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Deflection from the fact that the war started when Israel was created.

The veil slipped again

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Deflection from the fact that the war started when Israel was created.

 

   That was a different war , that was the 1948 Arab-Israeli war 

The current war is the 2nd Yom Kippur war