Liberal residency (to citizenship) options for the first world country of Chile

[Jingthing]

Many North American expats or wannabe expats are interested in options other than Thailand.

Southeast Asia is quite poor for permanent residency to citizenship opportunities, but Latin America offers a lot.

 

Chile unlike what you might expect in South America is a first world country and has some options that I didn't know about before. I knew about the retirement one based on pension but check this out, there is also a residency option based on showing money, and an investment option to start a business.

 

How to Get Chile Residency: The Ultimate Guide (nomadcapitalist.com)

 

Even though the pension option says 1500 a month, I've heard they're flexible if you plan on living outside of Santiago. 

 

The show money retirement option of 125,000 is about half what Mexico requires for permanent residency show money and the money doesn't need to be imported into Chile, unlike the Thailand 800K baht system.

 

For younger people the 60K start a business option sounds quite low.

 

Based on my research Vina del Mar would be a top choice.

Valparaiso is too hilly. Santiago is too polluted.

Perhaps La Sirena.

 

On this topic, I just heard there is some bad news coming about the Colombia retirement visa, which has already been made more difficult in the last few years. I don't know the details yet but I'm guessing they might be raising the financial requirements because the current ones are very low (under 1000 a month).

 

[arithai12]

Do you really choose the country where you want to live based on such factors? I would first try and spend at least several months there to see how I like it. Personally, I spent a lot of time in Chile for my job and I could have easily relocated there with a very high salary. Not my cup of tea for many aspects that I don't want to go into for fear of offending chilean people on this forum. At the same time, I know others who did relocate and were satisfied overall. One big plus: if you are into outdoors and nature, Chile is fantastic - except the beaches which are super cold. One big minus: it is really far at least for Europeans. And very, very Catholic in the strictest, old-fashioned sense. Ok, two big minuses for me.

[kwonitoy]

Having worked in Chile, you must know how to speak Spanish.

I was the only English speaker in a camp of about 600 workers, and I don't speak enough Spanish to get by.

Made for a long job.

Down south is supposed to be nice, I was working in the Atacama desert which is brutal.

[bendejo]

  On 3/9/2024 at 2:26 AM, kwonitoy said:

Down south is supposed to be nice, I was working in the Atacama desert which is brutal.

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Is that the area where it never rains?

I made it as far as Iquique (sp?) once.  The smell of the barren landscape is quite unique, but for me was not inviting.

What sort of foreigners disappeared into the wilds of South America after 1945?  I wonder how their descendants feel about, let's see, people who celebrate sabbath on Saturdays?

 

[kwonitoy]

  On 3/9/2024 at 4:12 AM, bendejo said:

 

Is that the area where it never rains?

I made it as far as Iquique (sp?) once.  The smell of the barren landscape is quite unique, but for me was not inviting.

What sort of foreigners disappeared into the wilds of South America after 1945?  I wonder how their descendants feel about, let's see, people who celebrate sabbath on Saturdays?

 

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Driest place on earth, some places it hasn't rained in centuries.

I was about 4 hours drive north of Antofagasta in the copper belt

I've worked in Saudi, Egypt, Aus outback and thought I knew what a desert was, then I went to the Atacama desert,

No rain, no life, not a single little weed or grass growing, no insects, nothing.

The year I was there they were still running the Dahkar in south america, one stage came right by out camp, but they didn't show that on TV

Sometimes I would just walk out into the desert and it was completely silent, very eerie 

[bendejo]

  On 3/9/2024 at 5:23 PM, kwonitoy said:

Sometimes I would just walk out into the desert and it was completely silent, very eerie 

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Usually people who do that end up starting their own religions 

I hadn't appreciated the ultra-barreness until reading your post.  I took buses across the Cordillera from northern Arg, and in the high desert there would be the occasional fellow with his llama.  Just weeks before we saw the first pictures from Mars (2004) and damned if it didn't look like what I was seeing from the bus window.  The one thing I was amused by was, in Iquique at night there were written messages in the sky!  Turned out there were words spelled out in lights across the mountains, which themselves were not visible at night. 

 

[Jingthing]

  On 3/9/2024 at 2:05 AM, arithai12 said:

Do you really choose the country where you want to live based on such factors? I would first try and spend at least several months there to see how I like it. Personally, I spent a lot of time in Chile for my job and I could have easily relocated there with a very high salary. Not my cup of tea for many aspects that I don't want to go into for fear of offending chilean people on this forum. At the same time, I know others who did relocate and were satisfied overall. One big plus: if you are into outdoors and nature, Chile is fantastic - except the beaches which are super cold. One big minus: it is really far at least for Europeans. And very, very Catholic in the strictest, old-fashioned sense. Ok, two big minuses for me.

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This isn't a black and white issue.

Personally, I most certainly DO choose countries among those countries that I can realistically move to visa-wise.

In my case, that is quite limited.

I advocate that others do the same, don't bother considering a country for expatriation before you've determined that YOU can actually live there.

When I moved to Thailand, I would have preferred Mexico but I didn't qualify for Mexico back then.

But then I started travelling to Thailand and had one of those cosmic feelings here. Like I was fated to move here.

I wasn't old enough then to qualify but I did find that at the time that I was old enough, Thailand was pretty much the only realistic option that I had, visa-wise.

The biggest downside of Thailand's retirement system is a total lack of any path whatsoever to a higher level of residence security beyond the year to year thing.

So because of that Plan B countries interest me and only Plan B countries that offer what Thailand does not as far as residence security.

So because of that this info from Chile interests me.

I haven't even been to Chile though I know of someone who moved there, loves it, and will never leave. In Latin America, I have been to Mexico of course, and also Costa Rica, Argentina, Uruguay, and Brazil. 

 

 

[arithai12]

  On 3/10/2024 at 5:56 AM, Jingthing said:

This isn't a black and white issue.

Personally, I most certainly DO choose countries among those countries that I can realistically move to visa-wise.

In my case, that is quite limited.

I advocate that others do the same, don't bother considering a country for expatriation before you've determined that YOU can actually live there.

When I moved to Thailand, I would have preferred Mexico but I didn't qualify for Mexico back then.

But then I started travelling to Thailand and had one of those cosmic feelings here. Like I was fated to move here.

I wasn't old enough then to qualify but I did find that at the time that I was old enough, Thailand was pretty much the only realistic option that I had, visa-wise.

The biggest downside of Thailand's retirement system is a total lack of any path whatsoever to a higher level of residence security beyond the year to year thing.

So because of that Plan B countries interest me and only Plan B countries that offer what Thailand does not as far as residence security.

So because of that this info from Chile interests me.

I haven't even been to Chile though I know of someone who moved there, loves it, and will never leave. In Latin America, I have been to Mexico of course, and also Costa Rica, Argentina, Uruguay, and Brazil. 

 

 

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I hear you about Thailand being difficult for long-term residency, let alone citizenship, on the other hand the year-to-year extensions are not too bad.

About Chile, I would prioritize La Serena which is a decent compromise in terms of climate, size, connections, facilities.

Good exploring.

[DrJoy]

  On 3/10/2024 at 11:13 AM, arithai12 said:

on the other hand the year-to-year extensions are not too bad.

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That is when you are not too old, when youre 90 years old it wont be too fun to sit at the immigration office whole day

[Jingthing]

  On 3/10/2024 at 3:05 PM, DrJoy said:

That is when you are not too old, when youre 90 years old it wont be too fun to sit at the immigration office whole day

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Or if Thailand changes the rules on a dime and you don't qualify anymore and you've been in Thailand for decades and you have nothing "back home" to go back home to.

That's why permanent residence and citizenship paths have so much value and should be a warning sign to all considering Thailand for retirement as Thailand does NOT offer that at all to retired expats.

[Celsius]

  On 3/9/2024 at 2:05 AM, arithai12 said:

Not my cup of tea for many aspects that I don't want to go into for fear of offending chilean people on this forum.

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you can say it, I'm from Chile

[Jingthing]

On this topic I've noticed that Paraguay of all places has increased in popularity for expatriation. They have a reasonable residency path as well. Personally my impression is that Paraguay is a very strange country though. 

[Jingthing]

OK there is very bad news on Colombia.

It's complicated but it's basically about access to the national private hybrid health care system for four or five years before bring eligible for residency or citizenship 

So you would need private or travel insurance as a requirement for visas until then.

This on top of previous onerous changes and Colombia which has been on top of my Plan B list is now off my list.

It's possible that they'll backtrack when the applications dry up though.

[save the frogs]

  On 3/10/2024 at 3:15 PM, Jingthing said:

and you have nothing "back home" to go back home to.

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you have a passport back home to go back to.

then, you can rent an apt just like anywhere else in the world.

why do people stubbornly hate their home countries so much to the point where they would prefer to move to a shady country?

 

[Jingthing]

  On 3/11/2024 at 12:33 AM, save the frogs said:

you have a passport back home to go back to.

then, you can rent an apt just like anywhere else in the world.

why do people stubbornly hate their home countries so much to the point where they would prefer to move to a shady country?

 

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Not a matter of hate.

A matter of economics 

I don’t consider destination countries shady.

A matter of choosing a better life.

A matter of having a decent quality of life and not worrying about every dollar.

A matter of not needing a car.

A matter of being able to afford to eat out daily vs almost never.

A matter of very affordable housing instead of constantly risking homelessness.

Yes if Trump wins avoiding living in a dystopian dictatorship.

I could go on but you get the idea.

I know you'll respond with a flame.

I'm not saying this is everyone's situation but it is many people's situation.

[JackGats]

Chile's package for retirees much like Peru's (and if I'm not mistaken Argentina's). No taxes on the foreign pension. Uruguay is even better re taxes: no taxes on our pensions and no taxes on capital held outside the country.

 

Quick access to citizenship in each case but beware: once you are a citizen your pension may not be considered tax-free any longer. I remember there being talk of the same issue regarding becoming a citizen of the Dominican Republic.

 

There are other issues, like an acquired citizenship being impossible to renounce. This is the case of Argentina. You become an Argentine, then Argentina adopts a tax system like the US where you get taxed even when living abroad. What then?

[Jingthing]

  On 3/11/2024 at 4:50 AM, JackGats said:

Chile's package for retirees much like Peru's (and if I'm not mistaken Argentina's). No taxes on the foreign pension. Uruguay is even better re taxes: no taxes on our pensions and no taxes on capital held outside the country.

 

Quick access to citizenship in each case but beware: once you are a citizen your pension may not be considered tax-free any longer. I remember there being talk of the same issue regarding becoming a citizen of the Dominican Republic.

 

There are other issues, like an acquired citizenship being impossible to renounce. This is the case of Argentina. You become an Argentine, then Argentina adopts a tax system like the US where you get taxed even when living abroad. What then?

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Yeah absolutely it's smart to look closely at taxation. 

When I was looking at Colombia I determined that at the very least I would be required to file tax returns there and that was a strike against them but the added visa hassles and expenses were the no go cherries on the cake.

I actually predict they will backtrack somewhat like Malaysia did but I doubt it will be enough. Either you want retired expats or you don't. If you make it too hard applications will dry up.

That's too bad because before they f-ed it up Colombia's retirement option was exceptionally excellent and at ridiculously low costs in the coffee region rather than Medellin.

[JackGats]

  On 3/11/2024 at 5:02 AM, Jingthing said:

Yeah absolutely it's smart to look closely at taxation. 

When I was looking at Colombia I determined that at the very least I would be required to file tax returns there and that was a strike against them but the added visa hassles and expenses were the no go cherries on the cake.

I actually predict they will backtrack somewhat like Malaysia did but I doubt it will be enough. Either you want retired expats or you don't. If you make it too hard applications will dry up.

That's too bad because before they f-ed it up Colombia's retirement option was exceptionally excellent and at ridiculously low costs in the coffee region rather than Medellin.

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I looked at Colombia too. Compared to Thailand better climate, better food, better language, better ... girls. However they tax you on your world-wide capital gains AND there's a wealth tax (if you own more than 800k USD world-wide). What deterred me for good though was the banks in Colombia. No use living somewhere tax-free where I cannot come at my money without losing 15-20% of it to the banks. Of course being like I am from the euro-zone doesn't make things any easier or cheaper in that respect (conversion from Euro to USD, then from USD to Peso).

 

Of late crime targeting foreign mongers in Medellin has been a further deterrent. There's lots of crime eg in Brazil or Peru too, but it doesn't seem to be targeted at foreigners dating local women like it seems to be in Colombia. I can live with crime within reason but not with crime disproportionately affecting my hobby.

[save the frogs]

  On 3/11/2024 at 4:26 AM, Jingthing said:

Not a matter of hate.

A matter of economics 

I don’t consider destination countries shady.

A matter of choosing a better life.

A matter of having a decent quality of life and not worrying about every dollar.

A matter of not needing a car.

A matter of being able to afford to eat out daily vs almost never.

A matter of very affordable housing instead of constantly risking homelessness.

Yes if Trump wins avoiding living in a dystopian dictatorship.

I could go on but you get the idea.

I know you'll respond with a flame.

I'm not saying this is everyone's situation but it is many people's situation.

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FYI, just found a new channel on Youtube.

She is a big fan of South America.

Here she mentions that she likes Colombia, Uruguay, Argentina, but doesn't mention Chile.

And one of her favorites is Peru / Lima. 1000 USD per month requirements and only 2 years to obtain citizenship. 

Actually, I am rather ignorant of South America. Never been.

I didn't even know that Lima was a coastal city, but if it's relatively cheap, safe, and has good weather and close to the sea and not polluted and has citizenship options, it seems like an interesting option to consider for retirement.

If you're sick of Thailand BS. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

  On 3/11/2024 at 1:16 PM, save the frogs said:

 

FYI, just found a new channel on Youtube.

She is a big fan of South America.

Here she mentions that she likes Colombia, Uruguay, Argentina, but doesn't mention Chile.

And one of her favorites is Peru / Lima. 1000 USD per month requirements and only 2 years to obtain citizenship. 

Actually, I am rather ignorant of South America. Never been.

I didn't even know that Lima was a coastal city, but if it's relatively cheap, safe, and has good weather and close to the sea and not polluted and has citizenship options, it seems like an interesting option to consider for retirement.

If you're sick of Thailand BS. 

 

 

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Yeah thanks. 

I forgot to mention Peru.

I've been to Lima.

Incredible food a global foodie destination but a weird climate and filthy beaches. There are some cool districts though.

I've heard great things about Arequipa. 

But very dry, high altitude, and quite isolated compared to Lima.

[Jingthing]

  On 3/11/2024 at 6:31 AM, JackGats said:

I looked at Colombia too. Compared to Thailand better climate, better food, better language, better ... girls. However they tax you on your world-wide capital gains AND there's a wealth tax (if you own more than 800k USD world-wide). What deterred me for good though was the banks in Colombia. No use living somewhere tax-free where I cannot come at my money without losing 15-20% of it to the banks. Of course being like I am from the euro-zone doesn't make things any easier or cheaper in that respect (conversion from Euro to USD, then from USD to Peso).

 

Of late crime targeting foreign mongers in Medellin has been a further deterrent. There's lots of crime eg in Brazil or Peru too, but it doesn't seem to be targeted at foreigners dating local women like it seems to be in Colombia. I can live with crime within reason but not with crime disproportionately affecting my hobby.

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Yes serious crime has spiked in Medellin but mostly targeting sex tourists.

Anyway I suggest Armenia and Manizales.

Same great weather, Manizales in particular is an amazing city, and much less crime. Another region option is Bucaramonga.

Colombian food is too bland though.

Retirement pensions are not taxed.

Wealth tax yeah but most people aren't wealthy enough for that to kick in.

I've also heard Colombian banks are a pain but I have no idea what you're talking about losing 15 to 20 percent.

[save the frogs]

  On 3/11/2024 at 1:42 PM, Jingthing said:

Yeah thanks. 

I forgot to mention Peru.

I've been to Lima.

Incredible food a global foodie destination but a weird climate and filthy beaches. There are some cool districts though.

I've heard great things about Arequipa. 

But very dry, high altitude, and quite isolated compared to Lima.

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Just been reading another blog.

This guy seems to have been to every Latin American country.

He doesn't like Lima that much. 

He says Mexico is the best country in Latin America and Colombia 2nd. 

 

https://mylatinlife.com/2018/02/18/mexico-best-country-to-live-in-latin-america/

 

 

[GypsyT]

Lima is primitive and women not very pretty.

However, they do love sex and are very good at it. Anal and oral action between men and women were most popular among "Moche culture". They were smart - no babies!

 

When I was there in late '80s I saw Moche Art exhibition at Mira Flores Sheraton. It was 90% of Erotic Art and lady curator was very willing to tell all about Moche sex habits. Very enjoyable and interesting education!

Peruvian food is best!

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=1d77d30c05e3b912&q=peruvian+moche+sex+habits&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQwMiqie2EAxX4PUQIHVtWDU0Q0pQJegQIChAB&biw=1263&bih=581&dpr=1.5

 

PS. Chile in other hand can be attractive if you got EU health insurance. It is honored in Chile!

 

 

[heybruce]

My impression of Central American countries is that they have an extreme patriarchal culture that keeps women under the thumbs of their fathers until they are married, then they are kept under the thumbs of their husbands.  It makes it difficult to meet any of the local women unless they are prostitutes.

 

Is South America different?

[heybruce]

  On 3/12/2024 at 8:17 AM, heybruce said:

My impression of Central American countries is that they have an extreme patriarchal culture that keeps women under the thumbs of their fathers until they are married, then they are kept under the thumbs of their husbands.  It makes it difficult to meet any of the local women unless they are prostitutes.

 

Is South America different?

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It's too late to edit my post, but I should have lead with "When I was in Central America twenty years ago..."

 

A lot can change in twenty years, so my observations may no longer be relevant.  But the question remains; how illiberal is South American culture in those places expats might be tempted to live?  I like hanging out with good-natured locals, especially local women.

[Jingthing]

It's worth noting that currently there is a very severe drought in Mexico and Mexico City has been hit especially hard. Pray for rain.

[save the frogs]

  On 3/11/2024 at 1:42 PM, Jingthing said:

Yeah thanks. 

I forgot to mention Peru.

I've been to Lima.

Incredible food a global foodie destination but a weird climate and filthy beaches. There are some cool districts though.

I've heard great things about Arequipa. 

But very dry, high altitude, and quite isolated compared to Lima.

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residencies.io web site has a lot of information

 

Costa Rica Pensionada Visa for retirees allows you to start a business or work.

After 7 years living legally with a temporary or permanent residency visa, a foreigner may apply for citizenship by naturalization. 

You will be required to contribute to La Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (C.C.S.S.) (Social Security Fund), acquiring a seguro voluntario (voluntary insurance).

 

They require you to put money in a Social Security Fund because it's designed for foreigners to stay for life. That's how it should be in every country. 

 

[Jingthing]

  On 3/14/2024 at 12:27 PM, save the frogs said:

residencies.io web site has a lot of information

 

Costa Rica Pensionada Visa for retirees allows you to start a business or work.

After 7 years living legally with a temporary or permanent residency visa, a foreigner may apply for citizenship by naturalization. 

You will be required to contribute to La Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (C.C.S.S.) (Social Security Fund), acquiring a seguro voluntario (voluntary insurance).

 

They require you to put money in a Social Security Fund because it's designed for foreigners to stay for life. That's how it should be in every country. 

 

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I've been to Costa Rica. 

It's relatively expensive now.

I've heard crime is up.

It has good PR but I think its over-rated.

San Jose is not a good place to live.

No other place in that small country rings my bell either.

You move to a country but really you move to a specific place in that country.

I think Panama is better.