TM30 problem

[tee1eel]

I went to do my annual extension on Thursday. I rented a property last June. Paid for one year. So i took a copies of the lease agreement, the landlords id, his housebook and the housebook of the rented property. At immigration I was told (I hadn't noticed) I need to show them proof that the landlord owns the property I'm renting as the name in the tabien ban is not his. When I got home I messaged the landlord who said, years ago the land (in his father's name) was rented by someone, long term. They built the house. Then years later the land lease expired they moved out, left the house and the landlord has no contact for them. That all happened years ago. So then I come along rent the house, not thinking about if the name in the housebook is his or not.

And now what? The landlord said he'll go on Monday to see if he can change the housebook but isn't sure if it can be done. Meanwhile on Tuesday I'll be overstaying. Does anyone know what ,if anything I can do? Help!

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

The landlord said he'll go on Monday to see if he can change the housebook but isn't sure if it can be done. Meanwhile on Tuesday I'll be overstaying. Does anyone know what ,if anything I can do? Help!

If landlord cannot sort it out don't see lot of options. 

You could check into a hotel making sure that they can provide a TM30. 

You would still need to explain to immigration the situation.

Which immigration office? 

Hate to rub it in but why leave extension till last minute.

Some offices you can do it 30 days early and few 45.

If no success you need to exit Thailand asap

[proton]

why do they need TM 30 when they have TM47 every 90 days anyway?

[Liquorice]

Then you need the Father's house book and the Chanute as proof he owns the land the house occupies.

You could also have the landlord speak to Immigration concerning the problem.

Edited March 9 by Liquorice

[IvorBiggun2]

6 hours ago, proton said:

why do they need TM 30 when they have TM47 every 90 days anyway?

I agree. TM30 is not the OP's problem.

 

 

Quote

 

Who should do the notification?

Officially and practically, the responsibility to report the stay of a foreigner rests with the host: the landlord of a property, the hotel or the service apartment. 

 

 

[bunnydrops]

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Then you need the Father's house book and the Chanute as proof he owns the land the house occupies.

You could also have the landlord speak to Immigration concerning the problem.

I am with you on that one. If nothing else, Imm work have more than just your word about the problem and may be able to get a short extension to work out the problem.

[Skipalongcassidy]

6 hours ago, proton said:

why do they need TM 30 when they have TM47 every 90 days anyway?

Because it their country and they want to know where you are living... see how the bad actors make it harder on the law abiding.

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Because it their country and they want to know where you are living.

 

Yeah.. Every 90  days I have to report my address.

[IvorBiggun2]

57 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Yeah.. Every 90  days I have to report my address.

Exactly.

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Yeah.. Every 90  days I have to report my address.

TM47 you can write what you want. TM30 requires some supporting documentation.

For you and I, staying always at the same address, it seems the same. For immigration, which has to deal with all sorts of customers, it is not. But I agree that the whole thing could be streamlined.

[tee1eel]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

If landlord cannot sort it out don't see lot of options. 

You could check into a hotel making sure that they can provide a TM30. 

You would still need to explain to immigration the situation.

Which immigration office? 

Hate to rub it in but why leave extension till last minute.

Some offices you can do it 30 days early and few 45.

If no success you need to exit Thailand asap

Samui Immigration. And this the tenth year I've been going there. It was a new officer. I did the reason for extension as marriage for 5 years, then changed to guardian of a Thai child. So this is the 5th year doing that one. She also wants me to bring a witness next time, Thai person with id and housebook. No clue what for, I have every document (my daughter is 15 now). It's just so frustrating. 

I was late because my extension used to always be 24th April. But I got a new passport ( old one expired 10th March 24, today). I just had April 24th embedded in my brain. Stupid mistake.

I live in Koh Phangan (who last year wanted 10,000b to do the extension). Samui advised me to go there tomorrow. at least if there's anything else it will be easier. they do love their 'extra pocket money' at Phangan.....so .....

[tee1eel]

8 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Then you need the Father's house book and the Chanute as proof he owns the land the house occupies.

You could also have the landlord speak to Immigration concerning the problem.

Yes, I was thinking that might work. The landlord is willing to help. Would the landlord though not get into trouble for renting a house that he can't prove he owns....?

[tee1eel]

8 hours ago, proton said:

why do they need TM 30 when they have TM47 every 90 days anyway?

I question a lot of what they ask for, lol. But you know, i just smile and say ok. I've given up trying to understand the 'why'.

 

[tee1eel]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I agree. TM30 is not the OP's problem.

 

 

 

Personally, I feel the same. I've done everything by the book and have all the documents that I was asked for. I'm still married to my (Thai) husband, although we're separated and have been living here and doing the extensions for 10 years. Maybe I can ask if I can go back to using my husband's house for the TM30....But really, it's not my problem that I was rented a property that the landlord has no proof of ownership for.

 

[Liquorice]

19 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

Yes, I was thinking that might work. The landlord is willing to help. Would the landlord though not get into trouble for renting a house that he can't prove he owns....?

No.

There are many Thai who own several domestic properties, but they of course can only be registered in one house book, meaning the house books that they have for other residential properties do not have their name in them. However, they will be named on the Chanutes of the other properties.

 

If your landlord could explain the problem to Immigration, I'm sure they could inform him what form of documentation they'll accept.
If a TM30 has never been previously filed, expect a fine.

[mokwit]

15 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

But really, it's not my problem that I was rented a property that the landlord has no proof of ownership for.

Unfortunately Immigration have made non compliance by landlords the extension applicants problem.

[tee1eel]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Unfortunately Immigration have made non compliance by landlords the extension applicants problem.

Yes, no suprise there. 

[Tropicalevo]

44 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

Samui Immigration. And this the tenth year I've been going there. It was a new officer. I did the reason for extension as marriage for 5 years, then changed to guardian of a Thai child. So this is the 5th year doing that one. She also wants me to bring a witness next time, Thai person with id and housebook. No clue what for, I have every document (my daughter is 15 now). It's just so frustrating. 

I was late because my extension used to always be 24th April. But I got a new passport ( old one expired 10th March 24, today). I just had April 24th embedded in my brain. Stupid mistake.

I live in Koh Phangan (who last year wanted 10,000b to do the extension). Samui advised me to go there tomorrow. at least if there's anything else it will be easier. they do love their 'extra pocket money' at Phangan.....so .....

Sadly, Samui immigration do seem to be pedantic when it comes to TM 30's. Is this your first TM 30 at this address since the new reporting system came in last year?

[Tropicalevo]

9 hours ago, proton said:

why do they need TM 30 when they have TM47 every 90 days anyway?

The TM 30 tells them where you are staying and it requires documentation/proof.

The TM 47 only tells them that you are still there.

[tee1eel]

1 minute ago, Tropicalevo said:

Sadly, Samui immigration do seem to be pedantic when it comes to TM 30's. Is this your first TM 30 at this address since the new reporting system came in last year?

Yes, I moved in last May, but did 90 day reports online, using my old address. Samui advised me to go to Phangan immigration tomorrow, because it's my last day before overstay and if I need to do anything, we'll at least I'm where I live and not on another island. Could Phangan immigration be more lenient, I wonder 🤔. I have everything else in order

[tee1eel]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I agree. TM30 is not the OP's problem.

 

 

 

Someone else said immigration have made it the person applying for the extensions problem. Twisted. 

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

Yes, I moved in last May, but did 90 day reports online, using my old address. Samui advised me to go to Phangan immigration tomorrow, because it's my last day before overstay and if I need to do anything, we'll at least I'm where I live and not on another island. Could Phangan immigration be more lenient, I wonder 🤔. I have everything else in order

 

You keep mentioning 'overstay'.......it is somewhat more serious in that your extension expires.

 

Can you not ask for a 30 day extension to allow you time to get the TM30 aspect sorted out?....................that will also take you to April so you won't forget next year.

[IvorBiggun2]

40 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Unfortunately Immigration have made non compliance by landlords the extension applicants problem.

Of course they have, because it's easier to get a farang to part with 500 Baht than it is to get Somchai to comply to the laws of the land. 

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I agree. TM30 is not the OP's problem.

 

15 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

Someone else said immigration have made it the person applying for the extensions problem. Twisted. 

 

Who is exactly responsible for filing the TM30, why foreigners have been fined for non-compliance, has been discussed many times on this forum.

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act states it's the responsibility of the Housemaster, Owner, or the Possessor of the property are responsible.

The 'Housemaster' is defined in section 4 as being;
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) ENG.pdf 

[Tropicalevo]

39 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

Could Phangan immigration be more lenient, I wonder 🤔. I have everything else in order

At the end of the day it is down to the individual officer.

Friends went to KPN immigration and I had warned them to take a TM 30 print out.

All went well until the officer noticed that the hotel had mistyped the passport number.

The officer said that she could not change it but told my friend to ring the hotel now to correct it and go back and get another TM 30 copy. She would wait for them to return.

All sorted, extension granted.

[Liquorice]

16 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Of course they have, because it's easier to get a farang to part with 500 Baht than it is to get Somchai to comply to the laws of the land. 

That's one way to look at it, the other way is that the farang either didn't know the law, and/or too lazy and left it to others, but ignorance is not an acceptable excuse.

[Tropicalevo]

7 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Who is exactly responsible for filing the TM30, why foreigners have been fined for non-compliance, has been discussed many times on this forum.

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act states it's the responsibility of the Housemaster, Owner, or the Possessor of the property are responsible.

The 'Housemaster' is defined in section 4 as being;
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

Yes, that is the law and the 'house master' whoever gets a fine.

Meanwhile it is the poor individual who wants a visa extension who becomes 'illegal'.

It is in our own interest to make sure that the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. Just like the OP is trying to do.

Otherwise, we lose out.

Saying 'but it is not my job' does not help when you are in a room being 'interviewed' by immigration.

[tee1eel]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Of course they have, because it's easier to get a farang to part with 500 Baht than it is to get Somchai to comply to the laws of the land. 

Exactly that. 

[IvorBiggun2]

A couple of years back I had to have the stamps in my old passport transferred into my new one. The officer said to me '500 Baht'. I told him I wasn't gonna pay.  And I didn't. Grow some before you enter an IO. They're not gonna shoot you.

[tee1eel]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

You keep mentioning 'overstay'.......it is somewhat more serious in that your extension expires.

 

Can you not ask for a 30 day extension to allow you time to get the TM30 aspect sorted out?....................that will also take you to April so you won't forget next year.

 I'm just quoting the immigration officer, but yes you're right.

I'm hoping they will do something like that, 15 or 30 day extension.To add to it, the night I got back from immigration (on Friday) the landlord messaged saying he wants to increase the rent by 25% for the next year contract. (even though he promised, lol, he would not increase the rent for 5 years and then only by 5%). So I will be moving back to my previous house anyway!!