House in wives / girlfriends name

[TigerCat]

If I understand it correctly - According to Thai law, if a foreigner inherits a house and land, they have to sell it within one year. 

 

I would think Thais know that the foreigner would be under pressure to sell, and would not get full value for it. 

 

I am wondering how foreigners that have houses with their wives / girlfriends feel about this?

 

Thoughts?  

 

A foreigner married to a Thai national is considered a statutory heir in Thai law. 

As per section 93 of the Land Code Act, the Ministry of Interior shall allow a foreign national who is a lawful heir to inherit the land. However, the foreigner cannot register land ownership with the Land Department.

Ater, the Thai national spouse, has passed away, the foreigner cannot register ownership of the land inherited from the deceased spouse. In such a situation, the foreigner is required to sell the land within one year from the acquisition of the land, as per section 94 of the Land Code Act.

[MangoKorat]

I doubt most Thai's have any knowledge of that law.  I also read somewhere that if the property proves difficult to sell and you can show that you are genuinely trying to sell the land, you can apply for further time.

 

I would expect that in that case, you would have to be asking a fair price - not just asking way over the odds in order to stay longer.

[IvorBiggun2]

18 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I also read somewhere that if the property proves difficult to sell and you can show that you are genuinely trying to sell the land, you can apply for further time.

No. I've never heard of that. And I doubt it to be true. But .....

 

Quote

When a statutory heir is a foreigner who inherits land (like a Thai spouse), they will have one year in which to dispose of the land they inherited. If the foreigner does not dispose of the land in time, the Land Department may do so on their behalf and retain 5% of the sales price as a fee.

 

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I also read somewhere that if the property proves difficult to sell and you can show that you are genuinely trying to sell the land, you can apply for further time.

I have heard the same thing 

[VinnieK]

The land is not automatically yours...there has to be some court process and such.

I don't know if the time wasted in the legal process will count in the one year time-limit.

[Peterw42]

OP, probate will probably take a year before the house/land is in your name. then a year to sell it, I believe an extension of time is possible, and its not like the land office has a compliance swat team who will raid you on day 364.

At the end of the day, you could always sell the house to a company you set up.

Most of the population would be unaware that the property needs to be sold, so no reason you couldn't ask and get a fair price.

[scubascuba3]

If desperate could put in company name 

[baansgr]

Considering over 90% of properties bought in Thai wives name are in the outbacks of Isaan ...it's highly unlikely you will find a buyer other than one of her family members

[Hummin]

My best guess, most foreigners who buy and build houses in their wives names, which is difficult to sell on the Thai marked, is becuse of the expectation of price, and maybe location. 

 

Also in many western mobans, alot for sale often for years before sold. All depending on price, location,,,,,,

[Hummin]

For the gf, never invest more than you can walk away from, rule nr one.

 

Everything you invest after marriage is in theory, 50/50 if divorce.

[Denim]

Everyone is different and my solution won't  work for most people but ...

 

I am approaching 67 years old.

After much consideration  I have decided that should my wife die before me I will leave Thailand and return to the UK to care for my elderly mother who owns her own 4 bedroom  house. I will give the house and land to my son in law and his wife. ( lovely couple with 2 daughters and own house already. ) For myself , I will just keep the car and wife's jewelry. Easy to sell and will give me about 500,000 baht. 

 

This solution will allow me to leave Thailand quickly or convert to retirement visa and live on here until my mother can no longer manage.

 

In reality,  it is more likely that I will die before my wife but an agreed on back up plan saves a headache should the opposite happen.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, TigerCat said:

I am wondering how foreigners that have houses with their wives / girlfriends feel about this?

Thoughts?  

Make some Thai children, then they can inherit.

[lopburi3]

3 hours ago, TigerCat said:

I am wondering how foreigners that have houses with their wives / girlfriends feel about this?

You have no rights to a girlfriends property.

[TigerCat]

My reply to lopburi3, "You have no rights to a girlfriends property."

 

I think I would, because she has me in her Will for it. 

 

[lopburi3]

25 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

My reply to lopburi3, "You have no rights to a girlfriends property."

 

I think I would, because she has me in her Will for it. 

 

You failed to say that.  Not sure it would be accepted per rules about property ownership so make sure it is legal - if it is will likely be the one year to sell provision.

[TigerCat]

Lopburi3 "Not sure it would be accepted per rules about property ownership so make sure it is legal - if it is will likely be the one year to sell provision."

 

It was done with a lawfirm, so I hope it's legal. But sometimes lawyers make mistakes. 

I also researched online.

I think it is one year to sell provision, that is my concern. Got some good replies that can probably get an extension if have a problem selling. Thank you everybody for the replies. 

[retsdon]

"My house/ apartment/ car is in my wife's/girlfriend's name"

 

Correction: Your wife's/ girlfriend's house/apartment/car is in her own name. 

[NoDisplayName]

What is the procedure when there is a 30-year or lifetime usufruct on the chanote?

[MangoKorat]

13 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

No. I've never heard of that. And I doubt it to be true. But .....

 

 

As you've seen in the post immediately after yours, I'm not the only one that's heard that more time may be given.

 

Can you supply a link to the 'rule' you've posted please?

[IvorBiggun2]

32 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Can you supply a link to the 'rule' you've posted please?

What 'rule' did I post ? Can you be more specific?

[MangoKorat]

14 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Quote

When a statutory heir is a foreigner who inherits land (like a Thai spouse), they will have one year in which to dispose of the land they inherited. If the foreigner does not dispose of the land in time, the Land Department may do so on their behalf and retain 5% of the sales price as a fee.

Sorry, a quote not necessariy a rule. Where is it from?

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

What is the procedure when there is a 30-year or lifetime usufruct on the chanote?

If the Usufruct is correctly constructed and registered on the title, any new owner has to accept the rights granted by it.  A change of ownership does not affect the rights of the Usufructuary.  A Usufruct ends on the death of the Usufructuary or when they wish to end it, I have never seen one that has any stated duration - 30 years or otherwise.

[NoDisplayName]

39 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

If the Usufruct is correctly constructed and registered on the title, any new owner has to accept the rights granted by it.  A change of ownership does not affect the rights of the Usufructuary.  A Usufruct ends on the death of the Usufructuary or when they wish to end it, I have never seen one that has any stated duration - 30 years or otherwise.

 

Understood, but does the property still have to be sold within a year?

 

If not, does the chanote remain in the name of the deceased spouse..........

[TigerCat]

Denim. That is very touching.  I've thought similar, leave something to my girlfriends family. 

[MangoKorat]

18 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Understood, but does the property still have to be sold within a year?

 

If not, does the chanote remain in the name of the deceased spouse..........

Yes, the rules are quite clear on that.  Although a foreigner can inherit a property through the death of their spouse, it cannot be registered in their name.  There may be some form of legal status for that but I would expect its just left in limbo until sold.

 

Technically a new owner would have to accept any Usufruct that was in place on that property but that would almost certainly render the property unsaleable.  I have no idea if a law is in place to deal with that situation but I would think that in practice, the foreign spouse would probably allow the property to be transferred to a member of his former spouse's family. If the couple have kids that are too young to own land, there may be the possibility of it being held in trust until they are old enough. However, I have no idea if trusts even exist in Thailand.

 

This illustrates the absurd nature of the Thai land laws.  When thinking of death and inheritance, we normally think it involves people of advanced age.  Consider the position of say a 40 year old man married to a Thai woman and living in Thailand with their 2 children in a house on land registered to his wife.  The wife dies, let's say in a car crash and the husband inherits the property.  Having already gone through the trauma of losing his wife, he now has to find a way to house his family because under the law, he has to sell the house.

 

My suggestion is that any foreigner who currently lives in a property registered in their spouses name that they may inherit - sees a lawyer and deals with the matter now rather than trying to do so after the death of the Thai partner.

 

As far as I know, and I'm not 100% on this - if a Thai citizen who is married to a foreigner dies intestate, any land is automatically left to their spouse along with any other property under matrimonial law, regardless of that spouse's nationality. I don't think there has to be an actual will.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

Yes, the rules are quite clear on that.  Although a foreigner can inherit a property through the death of their spouse, it cannot be registered in their name.  There may be some form of legal status for that but I would expect its just left in limbo until sold.

 

Technically a new owner would have to accept any Usufruct that was in place on that property but that would almost certainly render the property unsaleable.  I have no idea if a law is in place to deal with that situation but I would think that in practice, the foreign spouse would probably allow the property to be transferred to a member of his former spouse's family. If the couple have kids that are too young to own land, there may be the possibility of it being held in trust until they are old enough. However, I have no idea if trusts even exist in Thailand.

 

This illustrates the absurd nature of the Thai land laws.  When thinking of death and inheritance, we normally think it involves people of advanced age.  Consider the position of say a 40 year old man married to a Thai woman and living in Thailand with their 2 children in a house on land registered to his wife.  The wife dies, let's say in a car crash and the husband inherits the property.  Having already gone through the trauma of losing his wife, he now has to find a way to house his family because under the law, he has to sell the house.

 

My suggestion is that any foreigner who currently lives in a property registered in their spouses name that they may inherit - sees a lawyer and deals with the matter now rather than trying to do so after the death of the Thai partner.

 

As far as I know, and I'm not 100% on this - if a Thai citizen who is married to a foreigner dies intestate, any land is automatically left to their spouse along with any other property under matrimonial law, regardless of that spouse's nationality. I don't think there has to be an actual will.

 

 

 

Chanote is in wife's name.  I have a lifetime usufruct, and she leaves me the property in her will.

 

I wouldn't plan to stay here, rather would sell the property ASAP.  The law would give me one year, with perhaps the possibility of requesting additional time. 

 

Kind of almost makes a usufruct pointless.

[mogandave]

I think it silly to believe one would expect to get less if you only have a year to sell something, unless you only have one customer. 

 

Meat expires in a week, everyone knows they have to sell it, but it does not drive the price down until the last day of at all.

 

 

[MangoKorat]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Chanote is in wife's name.  I have a lifetime usufruct, and she leaves me the property in her will.

 

I wouldn't plan to stay here, rather would sell the property ASAP.  The law would give me one year, with perhaps the possibility of requesting additional time. 

 

Kind of almost makes a usufruct pointless.

Well no, most people obtain a Usufruct to protect them from being evicted in the event of a marriage breakdown.

 

I've had a Usufruct on my property for over 9 years. The house is registered to a trusted Thai friend and my name is registered on the rear of the chanotte in the entry recording the Usufruct.  I was single when I took control of the house then married - now divorced.  The one (and only) good point about the Thai Land Law is that in the event of a divorce, if your wife is not the registered owner, she has no claim whatsoever on the house........................................house? What house? I don't own any house.

 

The Usufruct has no value to anyone else except the Usufructuary.

[MangoKorat]

11 minutes ago, mogandave said:

think it silly to believe one would expect to get less if you only have a year to sell something, unless you only have one customer. 

Houses/land in Thailand can literally take years to sell - its nothing like the European market.  Much of that is because Thai's often have big ideas on how much their land is worth and also because they have an aversion to buying secondhand houses.

 

A single plot next to me has been on the market @ 2 million baht (totally unrealistic) for almost a year. A similar sized plot opposite was sold quickly for 900,000 - I expected that to bring 1.2 to 1.4 million but the owner clearly didn't want to mess around.

 

Land/houses can sell quickly but it is not uncommon for it to take years. Therefore, a realistic price is most likely to enable a fast sale - just as it is anywhere else.

[mogandave]

17 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Houses/land in Thailand can literally take years to sell - it’s nothing like the European market.  Much of that is because Thai's often have big ideas on how much their land is worth and also because they have an aversion to buying secondhand houses.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

 

Properties in Europe that are priced significantly over market value will take years to sell as well, so it’s not really that different.

17 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

A single plot next to me has been on the market @ 2 million baht (totally unrealistic) for almost a year. A similar sized plot opposite was sold quickly for 900,000 - I expected that to bring 1.2 to 1.4 million but the owner clearly didn't want to mess around.

Which just shows that if the property is priced right, it will sell. 

17 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Land/houses can sell quickly but it is not uncommon for it to take years. Therefore, a realistic price is most likely to enable a fast sale - just as it is anywhere else.

So apparently we agree, in that a foreigner (or anyone) selling a property at an attractive price should have no difficulty unloading it in a year, yes?

 

That said, if one buys a piece of farm land for 500k in the middle of nowhere and builds a 10M home on it, the home is not going to sell for 10M. But this has nothing to do with the fact that the seller is a foreigner with only a year to sell it, it’s just that no one wants it at 10M.