CBD products don't ease pain and are potentially harmful, study finds

[lopburi3]

There is no evidence that CBD products reduce chronic pain, and taking them is a waste of money and potentially harmful to health, according to recent research led by the University of Bath in the UK.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-03-cbd-products-dont-ease-pain.html

[stoner]

i have had decent success with thc balms for pain. does not work for all but when it does it relives pain in a few minutes. 

 

 

[eisfeld]

5 minutes ago, stoner said:

i have had decent success with thc balms for pain. does not work for all but when it does it relives pain in a few minutes. 

 

 

 

THC and CBD are completely different things. The only thing they have in common is that they can both be extracted from cannabis plants. THC is illegal in Thailand.

 

Edited March 26 by eisfeld

[Hummin]

shocked, tempted to say what did I say, but better not

 

CBD products sold directly to consumers may contain chemicals other than CBD, some of which may be harmful and some illegal in some jurisdictions. Such chemicals include THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), the main psychoactive component of the cannabis plant.

Of the 16 randomized controlled trials that have explored the link between pain and pharmaceutical-grade CBD, 15 have shown no positive results, with CBD being no better than placebo at relieving pain.

 

 

[stoner]

43 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

THC and CBD are completely different things. The only thing they have in common is that they can both be extracted from cannabis plants. THC is illegal in Thailand.

 

 

thank you so much for clearing that up. 

[george]

I use CBD for sleep and sometimes for pain. It’s been a life saver for me.

 

Only use certified CBD products to be safe!

[SamuiGrower]

The marketing (social media, YouTube, search engines, SEO, et al.) is way ahead of the science. Hypotheses of CBD as an analgesic (pain relief), sleep aid, anxiolytic (anti anxiety) and down regulator of THC remains just that - a hypothesis.

 

There has been no conclusive studies that shows reproducible results based on dose and purity across test groups that outperform placebo results. 
 

I have been in the CBD business since 2018 and have been consulting in the space since then. As a scientist, CBD (as well as the other cannabinoids) has been my focus. With that said, there is no conclusive medical or scientific data that’s supports the marketing claims across any cohort study.

 

Recent studies (it is important to gleen results from recent data.) show contrarian results: CBD is no more effective than placebo studies, CBD does not down regulate the effects of THC, is not an effective analgesic, does not promote sleep and in some cases, appears to do the opposite effect as an antagonist.

 

I have attached some posts below, I  have made previously, as well  some links (papers) relating to CBD in pain studies. I am a proponent of CBD in concert with the other cannabinoids (this, by the way, is the REAL entourage effect) and have realized efficacy is binary: it either works for YOU or it does not. It does not work for all. If it did, it would not be the subject of discussion, the headline would read: CBD is a conclusive sleep aid/pain reliever.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1298719-required-strength-cbd-oil-for-a-good-night-sleep/?do=findComment&comment=18161416

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1292013-importing-cbd-oil/?do=findComment&comment=18018941

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1298719-required-strength-cbd-oil-for-a-good-night-sleep/?do=findComment&comment=18344019

 

Two articles about CBD and pain

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34223660/

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799017

 

 

[eisfeld]

43 minutes ago, stoner said:

 

thank you so much for clearing that up. 

 

Just wanted to clearly state it because the article is about CBD products and THC has nothing to do with it. I'm sure a stoner like you knows this, others might not 🙂

[stoner]

10 minutes ago, SamuiGrower said:

The marketing (social media, YouTube, search engines, SEO, et al.) is way ahead of the science. Hypotheses of CBD as an analgesic (pain relief), sleep aid, anxiolytic (anti anxiety) and down regulator of THC remains just that - a hypothesis.

 

There has been no conclusive studies that shows reproducible results based on dose and purity across test groups that outperform placebo results. 
 

I have been in the CBD business since 2018 and have been consulting in the space since then. As a scientist, CBD (as well as the other cannabinoids) has been my focus. With that said, there is no conclusive medical or scientific data that’s supports the marketing claims across any cohort study.

 

Recent studies (it is important to gleen results from recent data.) show contrarian results: CBD is no more effective than placebo studies, CBD does not down regulate the effects of THC, is not an effective analgesic, does not promote sleep and in some cases, appears to do the opposite effect as an antagonist.

 

I have attached some posts below, I  have made previously, as well  some links (papers) relating to CBD in pain studies. I am a proponent of CBD in concert with the other cannabinoids (this, by the way, is the REAL entourage effect) and have realized efficacy is binary: it either works for YOU or it does not. It does not work for all. If it did, it would not be the subject of discussion, the headline would read: CBD is a conclusive sleep aid/pain reliever.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1298719-required-strength-cbd-oil-for-a-good-night-sleep/?do=findComment&comment=18161416

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1292013-importing-cbd-oil/?do=findComment&comment=18018941

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1298719-required-strength-cbd-oil-for-a-good-night-sleep/?do=findComment&comment=18344019

 

Two articles about CBD and pain

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34223660/

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799017

 

 

 

was waiting for this. thank you. 

[stoner]

10 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

Just wanted to clearly state it because the article is about CBD products and THC has nothing to do with it. I'm sure a stoner like you knows this, others might not 🙂

 

 

i have tried both and for myself only thc (full spectrum extract - so potentially had minimal amounts of cbd and others) worked. cbd balm did nothing for pain.

 

 

Edited March 26 by stoner

[LOWERCASEGUY]

Kind of a crap story.  You can tell by the writing style that either the author started with a conclusion or the researcher he's talking to has more to gain from phrama than natural remedies (or both).  

 

Quote

CBD (short for cannabidiol) is one of many chemicals found naturally in the cannabis plant. It's a popular alternative medicine to treat pain 

 

So, right off the bat, this isn't worded well.  

 

It is written in a way that seems as if CBD is used exclusively for pain mangement.  That is not the case.  

 

Pain is one of several things CBD is used for.  And it is known to treat certain types of pain more effectively than others.  For instance, many people report reduced neuropathic pain for certain specific conditions.  You can't just rub some CBD on a broken bone and feel better.  

 

What CBD is more popularly used for is anxiety and depression.  This is why CBD is often marketed for helping calm people and reduce stress.  

 

It has also shown promise in helping people undergoing chemo to keep food down and increase appetite.  Other evidence seems to indicate that it can reduce seizures and other neurological conditions (due to the way it buffers nerve cells from damage).  

 

Quote

"It's touted as a cure for all pain, but there's a complete lack of quality evidence that it has any positive effects."

 

But it's not touted as a cure all for pain.  The researchers created a strawman argument.  

 

Quote

"It's almost as if chronic pain patients don't matter and that we're happy for people to trade on hope and despair."

 

He's either being a tad dramatic or he has a financial interest in CBD not being a good pain alternative.  

 

Wait, took a moment to look this guy up and . . . 

 

Quote

Orion developed the software in close collaboration with Professor Christopher Eccleston, a pain specialist from the University of Bath, and technology group Healthware.

 

So, he's working on VR pain relief.  

 

Let's look at his findings with this in mind.  

 

Quote

CBD products sold directly to consumers contain varying amounts of CBD, from none to much more than advertised.

 

Well known fact that could be handled by regulating that what's on the outside of the bottle has to be on the inside of the bottle. 

 

Quote

CBD products sold directly to consumers may contain chemicals other than CBD, some of which may be harmful and some illegal in some jurisdictions. Such chemicals include THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), the main psychoactive component of the cannabis plant.

 

I can assure you that every CBD product sold commercially today contins chemicals other than CBD since nearly all CBD products are suspended in another substance like coconut oil.  

 

This is like saying, my research indicates that cars are not made entirely of metal.  

 

And buying CBD that doesn't have THC usually means that the CBD is synthetic or that the CBD has been lab produced (isolate) which eliminates the terpenes and other cannabinoids that provide the entourage effect.  

 

Bottom line is that the best CBD products are full spectrum, meaning they're extracted from a cannabis plant without leaving out the trace amounts of THC and other cannabinoids.  That's why most CBD has warnings on it that it contains less than 0.2% THC.  

 

But he does have a point that most of the stuff you see advertised online is junk.  That's because it's cheaper to fill a bottle with coconut oil and tell people it's CBD than actually put CBD in the bottle, and there's nobody from the government checking.  

 

Quote

Of the 16 randomized controlled trials that have explored the link between pain and pharmaceutical-grade CBD, 15 have shown no positive results, with CBD being no better than placebo at relieving pain.

 

Too much to dig into but I've skimmed the paper they submitted to the Journal of Pain and I would say this is anything but conclusive.  

 

For instance, they claimed they couldn't find any studies that supported the claim that CBD is effective against pain.  It took me all of 3 seconds to find this paper.

 

Efficacy, Safety, and Regulation of Cannabidiol on Chronic Pain: A Systematic Review

 

It shows quite the opposite of what the OP study shows and used a very similar methodology except they considered a broader universe of research papers (OP's study only used two sources).  

 

They conclude:

 

Quote

Some observational and clinical studies lead to CBD’s effectiveness and safety in chronic pain; however, the evidence is not strong enough to obtain a proper recommendation. It is essential to know that pure CBD extract is a strong candidate as an alternative to opioid medication since it is nonintoxicating and dependence is less. 

 

The OP study's last finding sort of really gets at their agenda.  

 

Quote

A meta-analysis (which combines data from multiple studies and plays a fundamental role in evidence-based health care) links CBD to increased rates of serious adverse events, including liver toxicity.

 

LiverTox: Clinical and Research Information on Drug-Induced Liver Injury

 

Quote

High daily doses of cannabidiol are associated with frequent serum enzyme elevations during therapy, but has not been linked to cases of clinically apparent liver injury with jaundice. The lower doses of cannabidiol found typically in over-the-counter CBD products are generally well tolerated without evidence of liver injury.

 

I found the last OP point a little head scratching when I read it because everything I've ever read about CBD has said that while it can increase liver function, that is easily managed by seeking the advice of a physician to do liver function tests.  

 

But in the OP findings they list all of this scarey info about over the counter CBD, like the purity, and make it sound like over the counter CBD can cause liver damage.  But their conclusion is based on pharmaceutical grade CBD which is many times stronger than over the counter products.  

 

Quote

However, CBD products sold on the retail market are not covered by trade standards, meaning there is no requirement for them to be consistent in content or quality.

 

This has nothing to do with the effecy of CBD.  It's a public policy and public health issue that the government doesn't better regulate these products.  

 

Quote

Dr. Andrew Moore, study co-author and former senior pain researcher in the Nuffield Division of Anaesthetics at the University of Oxford, said, "For too many people with chronic pain, there's no medicine that manages their pain. Chronic pain can be awful, so people are very motivated to find pain relief by any means. This makes them vulnerable to the wild promises made about CBD."

 

Or guys selling VR pain mangement headsets.  

 

Quote

He added that health care regulators appear reluctant to act against the spurious claims made by some manufacturers of CBD products, possibly because they don't want to interfere in a booming market

 

Again, this has nothing to do with their study.  This is all FUD they spew out because, like he said, people are desperate to relieve chronic pain and the more people that try CBD, the less people will spend money on more expensive treatments.  

 

In fact, that's probably the biggest hole in their research.  The fact that many people seek out CBD while they're being prescribed opioids.  People want to get off the hard pharmaceuticals and try something that won't leave them whacked out like opioids do.  

 

If chronic pain is as bad as he claims, wouldn't they stick with the opioids?  

 

If you take someone and you offer them opioids or CBD and they try both for a month and they come back and say they'll stick with the CBD, wouldn't that indicate that CBD is in some way offering them a better quality of life over opioids?

 

If we are to believe this study, CBD must be the only drug in the world where people voluntarily forego stronger and better pain management medications to take one that is completely ineffective.  

 

Somehow I have a hard time accepting the fact that in a world where people doctor shop, get multiple prescriptions, take illegal drugs, etc, that there's a significant number of people who are like, "Oxycotin?  Nah, I prefer CBD" if CBD is completely ineffective at pain management.  

 

Yet, nearly everywhere that cannabis is legal, there are reports of reduced opioid use as patients opt for CBD.  

 

Quote

"Untreated chronic pain is known to seriously damage quality of life, and many people live with pain every day and for the rest of their lives," said Professor Eccleston. "Pain deserves investment in serious science to find serious solutions."

 

Wow, a doctor that has developed a VR headset thinks the government should shovel more money into his area of study?  Amazing.  I didn't see that one coming.  LOL.  

[LOWERCASEGUY]

54 minutes ago, george said:

I use CBD for sleep and sometimes for pain. It’s been a life saver for me.

 

Only use certified CBD products to be safe!

 

Full spectrum products are the best.  You get the full entourage effect.  

 

But yes, only buy quality products regardless of what you buy.  

[SamuiGrower]

9 minutes ago, LOWERCASEGUY said:

Kind of a crap story.  You can tell by the writing style

A lovely review of writing style.

 

Perhaps you should read the white paper and not the journalists synopsis. 

 

More information: Andrew Moore et al, Cannabidiol (CBD) Products for Pain: Ineffective, Expensive, and With Potential Harms, The Journal of Pain (2023). DOI: 10.1016/j.jpain.2023.10.009

Journal information: Journal of Pain 

 

[LOWERCASEGUY]

21 minutes ago, SamuiGrower said:

I have attached some posts below, I  have made previously, as well  some links (papers) relating to CBD in pain studies. I am a proponent of CBD in concert with the other cannabinoids (this, by the way, is the REAL entourage effect) and have realized efficacy is binary: it either works for YOU or it does not. It does not work for all. If it did, it would not be the subject of discussion, the headline would read: CBD is a conclusive sleep aid/pain reliever.

 

I think part of the problem is that way too many people make promises about cannabis that just aren't realistic.  Too many stoner-types who only want to hear good things about weed and if you mention any negatives, they call it drug war propaganda.  

 

It's that old pendulum swinging to the extremes.  We had 70 or so years of governments lying to us about the harms of cannabis and now we have dudes with ponytails and tiedyed t-shirts saying weed cures cancer.  

 

I take CBD fairly regularly.  It doesn't have any profounds effects but I do feel a little less stressed out when I take it.  Then again, I feel the same if I'm regularly smoking weed.  Even when I'm not high, things just feel less stressful.  

 

 

[LOWERCASEGUY]

7 minutes ago, SamuiGrower said:

A lovely review of writing style.

 

Perhaps you should read the white paper and not the journalists synopsis. 

 

More information: Andrew Moore et al, Cannabidiol (CBD) Products for Pain: Ineffective, Expensive, and With Potential Harms, The Journal of Pain (2023). DOI: 10.1016/j.jpain.2023.10.009

Journal information: Journal of Pain 

 

 

I did.  But my point still stands on the article.  🙂

[george]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

There is no evidence that CBD products reduce chronic pain, and taking them is a waste of money and potentially harmful to health, according to recent research led by the University of Bath in the UK.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-03-cbd-products-dont-ease-pain.html

The article you posted are wrong. CBD has helped me a lot. Insomnia and pain after a traffic accident 6 months ago.

 

@lopburi3 Have you tried CBD? Or are you just believing in what you read?

[stoner]

26 minutes ago, LOWERCASEGUY said:

And it is known to treat certain types of pain more effectively than others.  For instance, many people report reduced neuropathic pain for certain specific conditions.  You can't just rub some CBD on a broken bone and feel better.  

 

can you show the known studies for this please. 

[lopburi3]

11 hours ago, george said:

The article you posted are wrong. CBD has helped me a lot. Insomnia and pain after a traffic accident 6 months ago.

 

@lopburi3 Have you tried CBD? Or are you just believing in what you read?

But that is your experience - and I am sure many users of placebo drugs have the same feelings.  Does not mean you are wrong but does not mean a published article reporting on controlled tests is wrong either.  And no I have not tried CBD but had hope that a new option for pain was going to become available as go down the cancer trail.  

[Felton Jarvis]

In my experience, CBD is worthless both for sleep and pain relief. An unforgivable waste of money.

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, eisfeld said:

 

Just wanted to clearly state it because the article is about CBD products and THC has nothing to do with it. I'm sure a stoner like you knows this, others might not 🙂

Would point out smoking high THC cannabis (0.5g/night) has reduced my arthritis pain (finger joints damaged by cold) to nothing, and even the swelling has reduced to normal. Also sends me straight to sleep for 8hrs every night.

 

Can't beat High THC hybrid for medical use.

(100% Sativa does nothing for me, has to be 50% or more Indica)

Edited March 27 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

In my experience, CBD is worthless both for sleep and pain relief. An unforgivable waste of money.

Agree.

[ABCDBKK]

4 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

In my experience, CBD is worthless both for sleep and pain relief. An unforgivable waste of money.

Fully agree. I spent a lot of money on a bottle of CBD oil last year. I took 30 mg doses on five different occasions. I felt absolutely nothing. No pain relief. It didn't make me sleepy. Zero. Complete waste of time and money. End of story. 
 

A few hits off the vape though and I'm right as rain 👍🏼

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, george said:

The article you posted are wrong. CBD has helped me a lot. Insomnia and pain after a traffic accident 6 months ago.

 

@lopburi3 Have you tried CBD? Or are you just believing in what you read?

An alternative question,

Have you tried high THC Indica hybrid?

I have absolutely no intention to change from a product I've found so effective.

Especially as it's on sale for 30bht/gm.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

An alternative question,

Have you tried high THC Indica hybrid?

I have absolutely no intention to change from a product I've found so effective.

Especially as it's on sale for 30bht/gm.

THC is not for everyone, and in most cases mask up the real problem. 

 

Some people higher tolerance than others, so for those, go ahead, but for others, not healthy, not for themselves and those around. 

[BritManToo]

Just now, Hummin said:

THC is not for everyone, and in most cases mask up the real problem. 

Some people higher tolerance than others, so for those, go ahead, but for others, not healthy, not for themselves and those around. 

 

Had to take my wedding ring off 4 years back as my finger joints were too swollen.

3 months after smoking high THC hybrid, I could put it back on.

No swelling for 3+ years now.

 

Is that what you consider 'masking the real problem'?

If so, I'm OK with that.

[notrub]

I get DTAM GANJA OIL from a government hospital in Buriram.  It costs about 200 baht for 10mg.  It seems to work but is so mild it is hard to really tell.  As in; I was stressed b4 3 drops under the tongue and now I don't feel stressed.  the oil?  passage of time?  comments? 

 

I use 5-8 drops with a small pipe of gelato b4 sleep and I go to sleep.  I also had purchased some full spectrum CBD that seems stronger and certainly smells stronger; it cost 650 baht for 10 mg.  

 

What is the difference between full spectrum CBD oil and DTAM Ganja oil, if any, please.

 

Comments on price of CBD oil please.

 

I have read that using CBD oil b4 smoking weed can enhance the high.  Any comments?

 

Thanks very much in advance.🙏🙂

 

 

[george]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

An alternative question,

Have you tried high THC Indica hybrid?

I have absolutely no intention to change from a product I've found so effective.

Especially as it's on sale for 30bht/gm.

 

No, I don't use THC.

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, george said:

No, I don't use THC.

As far as I can see, there's no way to know if you're buying or using CBD, but I can see what I'm buying with unprocessed cannabis.

Like everything in Thailand, CBD extracts appear mostly fake

Edited March 27 by BritManToo

[LOWERCASEGUY]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

As far as I can see, there's no way to know if you're buying or using CBD, but I can see what I'm buying with unprocessed cannabis.

Like everything in Thailand, CBD extracts appear mostly fake

 

You can buy CBD flower and flower can be tested in those same Purpl and Gemmacert testers for CBD content.  

 

Agree that most CBD extracts are fake.  Then again, about a year ago, most THC extracts you could find in Thailand were fake too.  You had to be really selective who you purchased from because there was zero consistency out in the marketplace.  

[buriram39]

Works well for for my arthritis.