Thailand in talks with China to swap submarine for naval vessels

[webfact]

 

Defence Minister Sutin Klungsang is near finalising discussions with China to acquire alternative naval vessels instead of a submarine, aiming to conclude the talks by the end of this month. The negotiations began following Klungsang’s recent trip to China, where he introduced the proposal.

 

China has shown openness to Thailand’s request to purchase two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) or a frigate in place of the S26T Yuan-class submarine. The change in plans was prompted by China’s inability to meet a specific engine requirement for the submarine.

 

The initial intent of the Royal Thai Navy (RTN) was to equip the submarine with a German-manufactured engine. However, Germany declined to integrate its engines with Chinese military equipment. China suggested a domestically-produced engine as a replacement but this never came to fruition.

Sutin, who is known to favour suspending the submarine project in favour of procuring another frigate, confirmed that the first discussions took place over a video call after his last week’s trip. He expressed his belief that while a final agreement is unlikely to be reached through a single conversation, the talks should conclude within this month. Following this, the revised deal will be presented to the cabinet for approval.

 

During his meeting in China, Sutin presented several proposals, keeping three factors in mind: the navy’s necessities, Thailand’s interests, and ensuring the over 7 billion baht spent on the submarine was not wasted.

 

The Thai delegation also expressed the Thai public’s worries about the quality of the Chinese-made engine, since it had never been used before. Nevertheless, they also conveyed understanding towards China, as the submarine construction was reported to be halfway complete.

 

While China is open to the proposed swap, the exact prices and models of the frigate and OPVs are yet to be agreed upon. Sutin reassured that this issue would not negatively affect bilateral relations, as long as the proposal is reasonable.

 

Klungsang expressed no worries about potential investigations by the National Anti-Corruption Commission regarding the changes to the submarine deal. He assured that the decision would be approved by the cabinet, ensuring its legality and alignment with the nation’s best interests.

 

Source: The Thaiger 2024-04-02

 

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[Geoffggi]

Makes more sense .......

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) or a frigate in place of the S26T Yuan-class submarine.

Only a guess but I reckon 2 patrol boats or a frigate would come in at substantially less cost. A big load of money down the crapper which of course the initial purchase itself was.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Nevertheless, they also conveyed understanding towards China, as the submarine construction was reported to be halfway complete.

Unless China finds a substitute buyer for that sub, Thailand is going to have to make major concessions to retract its sub purchase without loss of its massive payments.

Meanwhile: "In 2012 the RTN bought the SCTT (Submarine Command Team Trainer) simulator from Rheinmetall. Delivered in 2014 and now operating at Sattahip Naval Base, it simulates generic systems and capabilities of diesel-electric submarines." https://www.shephardmefia.com

So a whole submarine command operating for nine years, submarine downpayment and annual installnents made, only to get frigates instead? RTN competence and waste of Treasury funds need review (hint: MFP next House session). 

 

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Defence Minister Sutin Klungsang is near finalising discussions with China to acquire alternative naval vessels instead of a submarine, aiming to conclude the talks by the end of this month. The negotiations began following Klungsang’s recent trip to China, where he introduced the proposal.

It's been going on for months

[John Drake]

Whatever happens will require the permanent basing of Chinese "technicians" in Thai naval ports.

[edwinchester]

44 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

It's been going on for months

Years.... agreement was first signed 6 years ago.

[d4dang]

Why not trade for traditional Chinese Junks? Tourists would love them and they are green.

[Cake Monster]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

During his meeting in China, Sutin presented several proposals, keeping three factors in mind: the navy’s necessities, Thailand’s interests, and ensuring the over 7 billion baht spent on the submarine was not wasted.

Why would they have paid 7 Billion Baht for the Sub ? as a down payment.

Any procurement of this kind should have had a due diligence taken out upon it, which would have flagged up the fact that under EU Law, no parts or equipment manufactured in the EU are allowed to be used in anything manufactured in China for any kind of Military use

Gross incompetence

 

[worgeordie]

5 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Why would they have paid 7 Billion Baht for the Sub ? as a down payment.

Any procurement of this kind should have had a due diligence taken out upon it, which would have flagged up the fact that under EU Law, no parts or equipment manufactured in the EU are allowed to be used in anything manufactured in China for any kind of Military use

Gross incompetence

 

They were only thinking about the commissions they would get , have got

 

regards worgeordie

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Years.... agreement was first signed 6 years ago.

Agreed,the contract was signed in 2017, however both Thailand and China overlooked something very important.

Germany is bound by a European Union arms embargo imposed on China in 1989 after the Tienanmen Square massacre, when Chinese security forces opened fire on unarmed protesters in Beijing demanding greater political freedom.

The engines would never be sold/sent to China.

[cowellandrew]

as the submarine construction was reported to be halfway complete.

 

why doesn't china just deliver the half a submarine for the 7 billion baht, 

theres a good chance it would dive without any engine!

😂

[Peabody]

I would think that Thailand would have the upper hand in any negotiations. German engine in the original contract. Can't get engine = contract void? Return any downpayments.

Unless there was something dodgy from the get-go.

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, Peabody said:

I would think that Thailand would have the upper hand in any negotiations. German engine in the original contract. Can't get engine = contract void? Return any downpayments.

Unless there was something dodgy from the get-go.

Sorry, are you suggesting that the Chinese will return them any money?

 

Honestly?