Road accident scenario, what would happen?

[NorthernRyland]

Today I was on my road bike and some guy on very tall motorbike passed me dangerously close with a young kid sitting on the back, maybe 8 or so years old. This happens all the time and it always gets me thinking. One of these days I'm going to swerve 1 or 2 feet to avoid something or raise my arm and we're going to collide. If it was today that kid would be fall off the bike and if he survived probably get ran over by a passing car. It would be horrible and I can't believe I don't see this type of accident more often since people so often pass within feet of each other.

 

What does Thai law say here? I'm sure there's some legal passing limit but obviously no one follows the laws here. I believe that they simply blame the person who caused the most damage which could be me. Would I possibly be on the line for killing some guys kids? Was it my fault for lifting my arm and hitting the poor guy just trying to home? In absence of laws anything seems possible to me.

 

Oh and if you ever got in one of these yourself please share your story. 🙏

[OneMoreFarang]

I also don't know. But I am also used to lots of crazy riders who ignore any safety margins. They just squeeze in any gap which they see.

 

What would happen? Would there be enough evidence to find out what happened? Would the police investigate? I have my doubts.

 

It seems what often happens is to look who has an insurance and/or more money. That's the one who will pay.

 

I also would like to know the experience of others. 

 

[NorthernRyland]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also don't know. But I am also used to lots of crazy riders who ignore any safety margins. They just squeeze in any gap which they see.

 

yeah I ignore them too but when your own a motorbike or road bike you can't always hold a perfect line. If they pass in that exact moment you adjust your position or whatever reason then you're in a for crash. If people can pass at any distance then the lane you're in is effectively only as wide as your body. Worst system possible for driving but that's what we have here.

[rattlesnake]

Potentially very dire situation, especially with an injured kid involved, the chances are high that it will be the farang's fault, period. The solution? To begin with, front and rear cameras (even on a bicycle) and an insurance such as AXA which are used to dealing with foreigners and have contractual clauses for bailing them out/defending them.

[NorthernRyland]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What would happen? Would there be enough evidence to find out what happened? Would the police investigate? I have my doubts.

 

It seems what often happens is to look who has an insurance and/or more money. That's the one who will pay.

 

Oh I forgot to mention, my wife thinks both drivers are ruled to be at fault. That actually makes sense because everyone is breaking the law here so it's easier to just assume both people are wrong. Then you're probably right, they just take as much as they can and the guy with more money loses. That would really piss me off! Killing some guys kid would be another matter. those are the kind of things that worry me.

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

Potentially very dire situation, especially with an injured kid involved, the chances are high that it will be the farang's fault, period. The solution? To begin with, front and rear cameras (even on a bicycle) and an insurance such as AXA which are used to dealing with foreigners and have contractual clauses for bailing them out/defending them.

that would be annoying to have keep one more device that needs to charged, maintained etc... Putting cameras on road bikes would be hard also. Not sure where to mount such a thing that wouldn't annoy me. Agreed though that's the smartest thing to do.

[rattlesnake]

3 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

that would be annoying to have keep one more device that needs to charged, maintained etc... Putting cameras on road bikes would be hard also. Not sure where to mount such a thing that wouldn't annoy me. Agreed though that's the smartest thing to do.

 

I recently saw a guy with a GoPro at the back of his bicycle, beneath the saddle, and one on his helmet. It didn't seem that cumbersome. I actually thought that I should do that on my motorbike. All the bike dashcams I see have cables running along the body of the bike, which puts me off, so despite my advice above I actually currently ride without a camera - if people on this thread know of a good brand, I would be interested.

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

I believe that they simply blame the person who caused the most damage which could be me.

No, they blame who has potentially the most money to pay for everything, i.e. the foreigner.

I remember a story of a foreigner in a hire car who got t-boned by an unlit & un-insured farm truck who came out of a side turn in the dark, it was determined by the BIB that as the farm truck driver had no money the hire company should pay for everything.

[mania]

3 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

This happens all the time and it always gets me thinking. One of these days I'm going to swerve 1 or 2 feet to avoid something or raise my arm and we're going to collide.

Recently read about a long time cyclist...I think he was originally from Austria? Lived in Prachuap Khiri Khan killed recently by a woman who said he swerved...This being a 30+ years road cyclist I doubt very much he randomly swerved or if so surely not into traffic unless she flat out hit him. Sadly his side of the story will not be heard

 

Same in your case I know your worried about the kid but truth is as I'm sure you know getting hit from behind by any kind o vehicle doing any speed over 5mph with weight is going to seriously damage or kill you. I had a friend in the early morning hours in Chiang Mai get hit from behind while stopped by a drunk on a full sized motorcycle. Luckily it was not a center hit but still his  injuries took months for him to recover.

 

We also cycle 3 months a year in Thailand but further in the country where it is pretty good on the roads with vehicles often times moving too far over that I sometimes worry for the oncoming ....Take Care

Edited April 2 by mania

[scubascuba3]

Hopefully CCTV would see it, get a lawyer

[JBChiangRai]

I can see a couple of issues.

 

Firstly, the motorcyclist should be leaving a decent gap before he overtakes.  I think the advice in the UK is 1.2 or 1.5m.

 

Secondly, the bicycle's situational awareness.  Swerving out without checking behind is risky.  Most roadgoing vehicles have mirrors so you are always supposed to know what's behind you. It's part of the UK driving test, the examiner may ask you "without looking in your mirrors, what's behind you?"  I don't think that's possible on a bicycle and most riders are oblivious to what's going on behind them unless they want to turn right where they would check.

 

Why should swerving out be any different to turning right?

 

IMHO it's probably a case of 50/50 blame.

 

Cyclists often get a bad rap, some of it is deserved, we have probably all witnessed cyclists refusing to stop at a red traffic light.

[OneMoreFarang]

33 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think the advice in the UK is 1.2 or 1.5m.

And does this have any relationship with reality in Thailand? 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And does this have any relationship with reality in Thailand? 

 

Advice is advice, not the law.  It's either good advice or bad advice, which do you think it is?

 

Do you think good advice doesn't apply worldwide?

[impulse]

11 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Today I was on my road bike

 

Just to clarify, is your road bike of the pedal variety, or the powered type?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Advice is advice, not the law.  It's either good advice or bad advice, which do you think it is?

 

Do you think good advice doesn't apply worldwide?

Sure, good advice is good advice.

But is nobody cares, then it doesn't matter. And that is unfortunately mostly the situation in Thailand.

 

[FolkGuitar]

With all the road construction going on, and numerous 'bear traps' left in the road, trying to keep a motorbike's wheels on solid pavement becomes a real challenge. In heavy traffic, you can't see the road surface ahead so you tend to make quick, sudden movements to avoid the deeper potholes, but some Grab or Food Panda rider has decided that riding real close to you is his life's work, blocking you on the left, and a bike with 4 CMU students is hugging you on the right.

 

I never really thought I'd ever say this... but... Thailand could stand more police presence on the roads. 

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sure, good advice is good advice.

But is nobody cares, then it doesn't matter. And that is unfortunately mostly the situation in Thailand.

 

 

Unfortunately, you are right and nothing will improve.

 

Another way to look at this scenario is from (say) a GoPro on the motorbike behind, suddenly the bicycle he is overtaking swerves into his path.  Suppose it wasn't a bicycle that swerved but another motorbike? or another car?  Does it make a difference?

 

IMHO, it's down to the gap left by the motorbike and how far the bicycle actually swerved, it could be 50/50 blame or it could be 100% the cyclist.

[BangkokReady]

This is one of the things that makes me not want to ever ride, or even drive, in Thailand.  That and the chance of getting killed over my response to stupid or dangerous driving (beeping and shouting at someone who nearly killed me).

 

Sometimes it seems like it's a case of you being to blame for someone else's actions as you failed to get out of the way.  It really wouldn't surprise me if you got yourself in a situation where someone else hit you, then you ended up being responsible for the death of their child, simply because you're a foreigner, with the police being very much in on it.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

This is one of the things that makes me not want to ever ride, or even drive, in Thailand.  That and the chance of getting killed over my response to stupid or dangerous driving (beeping and shouting at someone who nearly killed me).

 

Sometimes it seems like it's a case of you being to blame for someone else's actions as you failed to get out of the way.  It really wouldn't surprise me if you got yourself in a situation where someone else hit you, then you ended up being responsible for the death of their child, simply because you're a foreigner, with the police being very much in on it.

 

Basically, you are right. But it seems in real life these accidents happen not as often as one would think they happen.

I rider motorcycle in Bangkok for 25 years. I had lots of idiots around me. But never an accident like that, not even a close call.

Obviously, that doesn't mean it couldn't happen today or tomorrow. But it seems it does not really happen that often. 

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

This is one of the things that makes me not want to ever ride, or even drive, in Thailand.  That and the chance of getting killed over my response to stupid or dangerous driving (beeping and shouting at someone who nearly killed me).

 

Sometimes it seems like it's a case of you being to blame for someone else's actions as you failed to get out of the way.  It really wouldn't surprise me if you got yourself in a situation where someone else hit you, then you ended up being responsible for the death of their child, simply because you're a foreigner, with the police being very much in on it.

 

Been driving cars and riding bikes here for near on 20yrs.

I have no issue honking  the horn/verbally abuse/give the bird to drivers/riders that deserve it.

Not dead yet.

But have had some awesome road rage incidents !

[Guderian]

Thai traffic rules say that motorbikes should keep to the left-hand side of the road, an dthat would make things safer if it was enforced. But hey, this is Thailand, just do whatever the heck you feel like doing, lol.

[Confuscious]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also don't know. But I am also used to lots of crazy riders who ignore any safety margins. They just squeeze in any gap which they see.

 

What would happen? Would there be enough evidence to find out what happened? Would the police investigate? I have my doubts.

 

It seems what often happens is to look who has an insurance and/or more money. That's the one who will pay.

 

I also would like to know the experience of others. 

 

Yes, I was "asked nicely" by the police after an accident where the other party was clearly in fault to foot the bill as I had the 1st Class Insurance and the other party had only the state insurance.
I was assured by the police that there would be absolutely no implication for me I would accept the fault.

On another accident, I hit a pedestrian and he was severely hurt, I called my lawyer and let him handle everything.
Finallly, the pedestrian was declared in fault but, avoiding to putting him in more difficulties, I accepted to 50/50 fault and my insurance would pay his medical bills.

My advice: if you have an accident, CALL YOUR LAWYER AND LET HIM HANDLE EVERYTHING!!!!

[alanrchase]

15 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

that would be annoying to have keep one more device that needs to charged, maintained etc... Putting cameras on road bikes would be hard also. Not sure where to mount such a thing that wouldn't annoy me. Agreed though that's the smartest thing to do.

Get a 360° camera, can be mounted on a pole behind you.

[paddyfield7]

I once was driving as number 3 car behind a very slow leading car, driving about 35 km/h. When we had free visibility after a curve, with 4 km straight road with no opposite traffic in sight, I expected car nr. 2 to take over, and after that, I would take over too. I gave the nr. 2 car about 20 seconds to overtake, but as he didn't make any such attempt, I started blinking, gave light signals and hooted shortly. I started overtaking nr. 2, but as we were astride, he came out without blinking or looking over his shoulder, or into his side mirror (if he had one at all). His old Toyota Soluna looked very bad, whilst my much heavier Toyota Hilux hat minor damages at both doors. I asked my (Thai) wife to call the police, but she said they wouldn't come, and it would be a matter between the insurance companies. By coincidence, we both had the same insurance company, and we called their representative. After listening to what happened, the insurance man said that his company would pay for our damage, but not for the other driver's much heavier damage, as it was clearly his fault. His witch-style wife got furious and insisted we meet at the local police station - it turned out that her father was the former but retired chief police officer at that station, and she knew he was just doing some garden work there. We sat there for 3 hours until a subordinated officer had written 5 pages about this minor incident in his diary, and we got both fined THB 300. I asked the young officer why I had to pay, because the accident was clearly caused by the other driver, but the answer was that the fine was risen because our two cars touched each other. TiT at it's best.....

[OneMoreFarang]

54 minutes ago, Guderian said:

Thai traffic rules say that motorbikes should keep to the left-hand side of the road, an dthat would make things safer if it was enforced. But hey, this is Thailand, just do whatever the heck you feel like doing, lol.

Would it make the roads safer?

With some slow bikes, probably.

 

But on some streets with 3 lanes people often park in the left lane. If motorcycles would ride in the left lane, then they would have to change all the time to the middle lane and back again because all of those parked cars. Is such situations I opt for staying in a lane which is not full of parked cars.

 

[Dan O]

16 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also don't know. But I am also used to lots of crazy riders who ignore any safety margins. They just squeeze in any gap which they see.

 

What would happen? Would there be enough evidence to find out what happened? Would the police investigate? I have my doubts.

 

It seems what often happens is to look who has an insurance and/or more money. That's the one who will pay.

 

I also would like to know the experience of others. 

 

I had an accident a couple months ago. I was driving my truck at posted speed limit in the left lane and a thai girl on a scooter was behind me about 50 to 70 meters in the lane not on the shoulder. About 100 feet before my soi I put on my turn signal and started to slow down. Check to the right and looked behind me as I was reaching the turn.  She was closer, about 25 meters but still in the lane behind me. I slowed more to make the turn which was a sharp left and at the last second she decided to try to pass me on the shoulder on the left side where I was turning. She hit me in the back fender and slide down the whole side of the truck falling in the street in front of me. Several of the locals came over and where yacking at me that it was my fault although no one was outside when it occured. I picked the bike up off the girl who had 2 cuts on her foot and a little road rash on her elbow. Then the locals pushed me away and wouldnt let me near her. Ambulance came and took her away and police showed up a few minutes later. all the locals claimed she was beside me when I hit her, well partially true she did hit me in the side. No CCTV anywhere. Cop talked to me and the locals and draw a picture showing exactly what I just described. We went to the police station and my insurance guy showed up, she had none. Cop showed the insurance guy the pic he had drawn which was accurate and they spoke in thai to each other. The insurance guy then says to me that I am at fault as I was turning and she was going straight so she had right of way ??????? and I was suppose to stop and let her pass me before I turned. I said no and explained again what happened and showed the pic the cop had drawn and said she tried to pass me on the shoulder knowing I was turning. He just kept smiling and said ok wait here and went back to talk to the cop. Cop comes back with the insurance guy and with a straight face says Im at fault because I cant prove my story and the locals all claimed they saw it. He then says the damage to the truck looks like you described though BUT if I agree to just say I did not see her when she was passing me as I was turning no charges would be filed and the insurance guy would agree to pay for her bike and medical damages and lost wages. The cop said if I dont agree the girls family already want to press charges against me and he doesnt want that as it can be solved easily and he promised that no charges or court and fees to me. SO the insurance guys writes up the report just as I described but inserts a line that said "as I was making my turn I did not see the girl start to pass me on the shoulder and we collided. Insurance agrees to accept responsibility for the damages and medical and no charges are filed." I read it over a couple times and was not happy about it and told the insurance guy and cop that.  The cop, who was actually a pretty decent guy, says to me, look your a foreigner and I have nothing I can put into the report and no cctv to back up your explanation. They have the locals that claim they saw it and if it goes to court who do you think will win? So I say ok and he took the insurance report and on his official police accident report just made a note saying see accident diagram and insurance report. I signed the insurance report, no charges or fees and the cop kept his word and actually told the family at one point they needed to be thankful everything was paid for and she wasnt killed for being stupid and hoped she will remember this.

[NorthernRyland]

16 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

I remember a story of a foreigner in a hire car who got t-boned by an unlit & un-insured farm truck who came out of a side turn in the dark, it was determined by the BIB that as the farm truck driver had no money the hire company should pay for everything.

Worst possible laws ever. Makes murder legal for the poor.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Guderian said:

Thai traffic rules say that motorbikes should keep to the left-hand side of the road, an dthat would make things safer if it was enforced. But hey, this is Thailand, just do whatever the heck you feel like doing, lol.

In some cases you have to get out on the farside lane if you want to do a  right or U turn ahead. Depending on traffic conditions, you may have to get out there in plenty of time as no matter how much you indicate to move from the left lane, no car or truck is going to let you out.

[NorthernRyland]

7 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Why should swerving out be any different to turning right?

 

IMHO it's probably a case of 50/50 blame.

The idea is that you have an imaginary lane of ~1 meters on both sides with a margin of error to work in, avoid objects, dogs, pot holes etc.. and general error if you move a little because your vehicle has 2 wheels and it's not 100% stable. 

 

The problem with Thailand is your 1 meter lane can collapse to zero by dangerous passing. 

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Confuscious said:

Yes, I was "asked nicely" by the police after an accident where the other party was clearly in fault to foot the bill as I had the 1st Class Insurance and the other party had only the state insurance.
I was assured by the police that there would be absolutely no implication for me I would accept the fault.

On another accident, I hit a pedestrian and he was severely hurt, I called my lawyer and let him handle everything.
Finallly, the pedestrian was declared in fault but, avoiding to putting him in more difficulties, I accepted to 50/50 fault and my insurance would pay his medical bills.

My advice: if you have an accident, CALL YOUR LAWYER AND LET HIM HANDLE EVERYTHING!!!!

But just how much is that going to cost you if you are 100% innocent.