Special counsel blasts judge’s jury instruction request in Trump documents case

[Danderman123]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:05 AM, impulse said:

 

Trump claimed that the PRA allowed him to keep those documents.  Right or wrong, if this were any other former president, or if Trump wasn't a candidate, or this wasn't an election season, the issue would have been settled in a flurry of court battles with no charges being filed.

 

The willful retention of classified documents is what would normally require imprisonment.

[Chomper Higgot]

Move to recuse.

 

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick.

 

 

[candide]

13 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes,Trump did it to himself. Much like spoiled rich people or even season ticket holders do...Don't you know who I am?

At the beginning, it could have been because of ignorance or negligence. But after one year of being asked by the NARA to give documents back, and most of all after he hid some documents and lied about it, it leaves no doubt thattherevwas intent.

 

What motivated him? Vanity? Or was it a sign of his growing dementia?

[mogandave]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The willful retention of classified documents is what would normally require imprisonment.

Unless you’re a befuddled old man doing the left’s bidding, in which case you get a pass.

 

 

[mogandave]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Move to recuse.

 

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick.

 

 

Jack for the law gives not a whit. 

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

Unless you’re a befuddled old man doing the left’s bidding, in which case you get a pass.

 

 

You forget that when found they were returned and that individual did not lie about them or try to hide them.  Mixing apples and oranges I see. Try and look at the world through clear non rose colored glasses sir.

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

Unless you’re a befuddled old man doing the left’s bidding, in which case you get a pass.

 

 

Do you understand the difference between personal notes and official USG documents with classification markings? Apparently not.

 

Reagan, Biden and Pence took home personal notes, some of which had classified data. All cooperated with authorities when found, and a precedent was set under Reagan that no prosecution would take place.

 

trump stole a wide range of highly classified documents, not personal notes. He is not allowed to take nor possess them. When told to give back what he stole, he lied and said he had returned everything. When the DoJ was informed trump lied, they authorized the FBI search.

 

Perhaps you can explain why a wedding planner needs things such as war plans, identities of clandestine sources in hostile nations, the capabilities of hostile nations' militaries, etc.? Should all country club and wedding planner companies be given the same documents, as it must be an integral part of the business?

 

 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Do you understand the difference between personal notes and official USG documents with classification markings? Apparently not.

 

Reagan, Biden and Pence took home personal notes, some of which had classified data. All cooperated with authorities when found, and a precedent was set under Reagan that no prosecution would take place.

 

trump stole a wide range of highly classified documents, not personal notes. He is not allowed to take nor possess them. When told to give back what he stole, he lied and said he had returned everything. When the DoJ was informed trump lied, they authorized the FBI search.

 

Perhaps you can explain why a wedding planner needs things such as war plans, identities of clandestine sources in hostile nations, the capabilities of hostile nations' militaries, etc.? Should all country club and wedding planner companies be given the same documents, as it must be an integral part of the business?

 

 

Did Biden not have to turn all the classified documents he stole back in? 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

You forget that when found they were returned and that individual did not lie about them or try to hide them.  Mixing apples and oranges I see. Try and look at the world through clear non rose colored glasses sir.

Right

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 4/5/2024 at 12:41 AM, candide said:

Easy question. Trump refused to give some documents back, hid them, and lied about it. (to keep it simple). For more details, you can use Google.

But both cases were of the same "crime"... having the classified documents in the first place... trump claims a right to have them... joe claims forgetting about them... not withstanding that trump "refused" to return them and joe (when found out) apologized and returned them... the initial "crime" remains the same... but the prosecution is not equal.

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

But both cases were of the same "crime"... having the classified documents in the first place..

You are absolutely wrong,

Google "what was trump charged with un the classified documents case"

then use some of that by now famous critical thinking( ) and see if there are any evidence by which Biden could be charged of the same. 

 

[Danderman123]

13 hours ago, mogandave said:

Unless you’re a befuddled old man doing the left’s bidding, in which case you get a pass.

 

Biden did not willfully retain classified documents. His lawyers returned the documents as soon as they were found.

 

Which makes you befuddled.

[Danderman123]

45 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

But both cases were of the same "crime"... having the classified documents in the first place... 

Nope.

 

Trump refused to return the classified documents, whereas Biden returned them immediately.

 

[Danderman123]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Did Biden not have to turn all the classified documents he stole back in? 

 

Biden didn't steal any classified documents. There were a handful of classified documents mixed in with his boxes of personal papers.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/5/2024 at 4:51 PM, Danderman123 said:

Your inability to distinguish between the Biden and Trump cases is a cognitive issue on your part.

 

I would take you through the differences, but you would forget everything the next day.

 

Let me ask you a question: why did Trump try to hide the classified documents at Mar-A-Lago?

I wouldn't even bother reading them.

 

Did he try and hide them? Isn't that part of what the court case has to determine. Neither you nor I were in Mar a Lago at the time to know.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Biden didn't steal any classified documents. There were a handful of classified documents mixed in with his boxes of personal papers.

but we'll never know for sure because he wasn't charged with a court case to determine the "facts".

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Nope.

 

Trump refused to return the classified documents, whereas Biden returned them immediately.

 

Nope.

 

They wanted to get Trump so they conflated a minor administrative case into a major legal case. The entire situation has been very badly done political theatre IMO.

The court case has not yet concluded, so you are unable to say for sure that he refused, or just wanted to have a discussion about them before handing them over or not.

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Biden did not willfully retain classified documents. His lawyers returned the documents as soon as they were found.

 

Which makes you befuddled.

Just retaining them was the crime. Can a criminal just hand back the proceeds of a burglary and face no charges?

 

He wasn't let off because he is innocent, but apparently because the investigator concluded he was too pathetic to be convicted by a jury. Yet that same too pathetic to convict man is POTUS.

Strange world we live in.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The willful retention of classified documents is what would normally require imprisonment.

LOL. Is it your understanding those classified documents in Bidens garage just snuck themselves into a pile of old notes all by themselves?

[Skipalongcassidy]

39 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Biden didn't steal any classified documents. There were a handful of classified documents mixed in with his boxes of personal papers.

First of all... trump is not being charged with "stealing" classified documents... so which is worse... having documents in one's possession that you are not only permitted to have and are aware that you have them... or having "forgotten" or "misplaced" documents that you took an oath to protect when you received your security clearance as vice-president?

[Skipalongcassidy]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

The court case has not yet concluded, so you are unable to say for sure that he refused, or just wanted to have a discussion about them before handing them over or not.

6 things to know about Trump's classified documents case : NPR

[Danderman123]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't even bother reading them.

 

Did he try and hide them? Isn't that part of what the court case has to determine. Neither you nor I were in Mar a Lago at the time to know.

 

 

You really don't know that Trump hid classified documents at Mar-A-Lago? Wow. That's astounding ignorance of the facts of this case.

 

Of course, everything is alleged until proven in court, but you are simply saying you don't know the basics of the case.

[Danderman123]

16 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

First of all... trump is not being charged with "stealing" classified documents... so which is worse... having documents in one's possession that you are not only permitted to have and are aware that you have them... or having "forgotten" or "misplaced" documents that you took an oath to protect when you received your security clearance as vice-president?

Trump is not permitted to retain classified documents after leaving office.

 

In fact, any Presidential records should have been turned over to the National Archives.

[Danderman123]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just retaining them was the crime. Can a criminal just hand back the proceeds of a burglary and face no charges?

 

He wasn't let off because he is innocent, but apparently because the investigator concluded he was too pathetic to be convicted by a jury. Yet that same too pathetic to convict man is POTUS.

Strange world we live in.

Nope. Biden returned the classified documents upon their discovery.

 

Trump tried to keep them, even after receiving a subpeona.

 

Your inability to distinguish between the two cases is a cognitive issue.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Nope. Biden returned the clasdified documents upon their discovery.

 

Trump tried to keep them, even after receiving a subpeona.

 

Your inability to distinguish between the two cases is a cognitive issue.

You are just regurgitating the same thing over and over. Get back to us when you have something new to contribute.

[Danderman123]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are just regurgitating the same thing over and over. Get back to us when you have something new to contribute.

I am just repeating the facts of the case.

 

Facts are stubborn things.

[Skipalongcassidy]

36 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump is not permitted to retain classified documents after leaving office.

 

In fact, any Presidential records should have been turned over to the National Archives.

That is what will be decided... he is saying that they are personal records that were declassified and he was permitted to have them... two sides to every story... 6 things to know about Trump's classified documents case : NPR

[Danderman123]

45 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

That is what will be decided... he is saying that they are personal records that were declassified and he was permitted to have them... two sides to every story... 6 things to know about Trump's classified documents case : NPR

The law is very clear on a former President having to hand over all Presidential records to NARA. Trump knew the law, which is why he tried to hide presidential records.

 

More to the point, a jury cannot determine the law, only whether someone broke the law. If Judge Cannon is unclear on basics of the law, the 11th Circuit court will educate her, or take her off the case.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

I am just repeating the facts of the case.

 

Facts are stubborn things.

Yes you are repeating them ad nauseam.

Carry on without me.

[Danderman123]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes you are repeating them ad nauseam.

Carry on without me.

You are misrepresenting the facts of this case and law, every day.

 

Okay, I will let you count your profits from your investment in Truth Social.