Only one in four British Muslims believe Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel, report

[Nick Carter icp]

36 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Actually, Palestinians are legally allowed to resist their occupiers by force. 1200 innocents were not executed, for starters, there were around 700 civilians. The rest were perfectly legal targets.

 

   Gaza wasn't occupied on Oct 7 th .

Your reply with be .

The U.N says it was occupied because of the blockade 

[Brickleberry]

25 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Hamas bombed the electric producing power station in Israel causing power cuts to Gaza .

Hamas were using the food,  electric and water being sent into Gaza  and its not a war crime to cut off supplies to your enemy combatants  .

   Now, shall we move on to day 2 of the war?

 

No, Israel shut all of these thing off, and it is illegal to do this to a group of people. It is a war crime. The ICJ, UK, US and virtually all countries recognize this as a war crime. Try again. Hamas - 30,000 fighters according to the IDF. Gaza population; Over 2 million.

[Brickleberry]

29 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Provide reliable links to prove that cr@p or shut up!

Here you go:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/idf-sexual-abuse-palestine-gaza-b2498888.html

Quote

UN experts speak out about sexual assault and mistreatment of Palestinian women and girls by IDF

Experts expressed ‘shock’ and ‘distress’ at allegations that IDF officers had raped, assaulted, and strip-searched female prisoners

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

No, Israel shut all of these thing off, and it is illegal to do this to a group of people. It is a war crime. The ICJ, UK, US and virtually all countries recognize this as a war crime. Try again. Hamas - 30,000 fighters according to the IDF. Gaza population; Over 2 million.

 

   It isn't a war crime to cut of utilities to the enemy combatants ,  as Hamas were receiving the aid and utilities , then Israel isn't legally required to supply its enemy with anything .

   Could you post the war crime up , the one that you are referring to, so I can read what it says ?

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Here you go:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/idf-sexual-abuse-palestine-gaza-b2498888.html

 

 

  The small print says that

 

"Experts expressed ‘shock’ and ‘distress’ at allegations that IDF officers had raped, assaulted, and strip-searched female prisoners"

 

   They are just allegations and nothing proven , Palsedtians frequently make false allegations about Israelis /IDF .

   The U.N just called for an investigation into the allegations , the U.N doesn't claim that the allegations are true or correct 

[Brickleberry]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  The small print says that

 

"Experts expressed ‘shock’ and ‘distress’ at allegations that IDF officers had raped, assaulted, and strip-searched female prisoners"

 

   They are just allegations and nothing proven , Palsedtians frequently make false allegations about Israelis /IDF .

   The U.N just called for an investigation into the allegations , the U.N doesn't claim that the allegations are true or correct 

 

Exactly the same as the UN report on Israels mass rape claims.

[Brickleberry]

11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It isn't a war crime to cut of utilities to the enemy combatants ,  as Hamas were receiving the aid and utilities , then Israel isn't legally required to supply its enemy with anything .

   Could you post the war crime up , the one that you are referring to, so I can read what it says ?

Yes it is. Google it. Collective punishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

Quote

Collective punishment is prohibited by treaty in both international and non-international armed conflicts, more specifically Common Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and Article 4 of the Additional Protocol II.^[1][2]

 

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Yes it is. Google it. Collective punishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

 

 

   Israel are fighting against Hamas , an official war .

So Palsedtians are exempt from those rules , as they are fighting against Israel .

Israel can legally control own borders and Palestinians can get supplies from elsewhere 

[Brickleberry]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Israel are fighting against Hamas , an official war .

So Palsedtians are exempt from those rules , as they are fighting against Israel .

Israel can legally control own borders and Palestinians can get supplies from elsewhere 

 

So you read the Wikipedia article, or read the Geneva conventions? If you had, you would know what you wrote is false. Here it is in black and white:

https://opiniojuris.org/2014/07/26/can-israel-cut-water-power-gaza/

Quote

For the purpose of answering the question posed, the question whether the Gaza Strip constitutes territory occupied by Israel is decisive…. It should be taken into account that the withdrawal was not as complete as it should have been in order to terminate Israel’s position as an occupying power. Israel continue to control access to Gaza from land (except for a relatively short border line with Egypt, which however was closed pursuant to an understanding between Israel and Egypt), from the sea and from the air. Israel, thus, remained in full control of the lifelines of the Gaza Strip. It is submitted that this is at least equivalent to a de facto control which, according to Art. 42 of the Hague Regulations, is constitutive for an occupation. If this argument is accepted, the cut of electricity and water supply would be a violation of Israel’s duty to provide for the welfare of the population.

Second, like the group of experts, Bothe believes that Israel does not have to formally occupy Gaza in order to have a positive obligation to provide it with water and power. The argument is dense; here is a key paragraph (p. 3):

The situation of the Gaza Strip is special. At least on the basis of a first search, there are indeed no cases concerning the duty of a party to a conflict to provide water and electricity to the other side. In such a case, the argument that everything is permitted in the absence of a specific practice is incorrect. The solution has to be found in applying general principles which form part of customary law. The principle underlying the customary rules concerning relief is to ensure that the basic needs of a population continue to be met under the conditions of an armed conflict. The supply cuts discussed here would… infringe that basic principle.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

So you read the Wikipedia article, or read the Geneva conventions? If you had, you would know what you wrote is false. Here it is in black and white:

https://opiniojuris.org/2014/07/26/can-israel-cut-water-power-gaza/

 

 

   That is an article from 10 years ago .which says 

 

"the bottom line is that Bell rejects the idea that Gaza is still occupied and believes it is thus impossible to find a positive obligation on Israel to continue to provide water and power"

 

 

I am bored with this issue now and I have lost interest , so I will move on 

[Nick Carter icp]

41 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Exactly the same as the UN report on Israels mass rape claims.

 

   Oh I see now .

Israel stated that there had been numerous sexual assaults on Oct 7 th by Hamas

Hamas  retaliated by making the same accusations about the IDF .

Seems that is rather common with Hamas , Deny everything and make the same accusations against Israel 

[Bkk Brian]

52 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Exactly the same as the UN report on Israels mass rape claims.

But nobody claimed there was mass rape, there was plenty though, including gang rape. The UN report has very credible claims of rapes and ongoing sexual abuses of hostages, more than allegations which is all that is in your links, including autopsy, witnesses, photographic. You should also note that since the report, released hostages have also "confirmed" the sexual abuse the were victims to in Gaza.

 

Of course Hamas denied all this much the same as you. But the UN also investigated the claims made by the Palestinians. 

 

"The UN report also said there had been allegations of sexual violence against Palestinians in Israeli custody, including "unwanted touching of intimate areas" and "prolonged forced nudity" in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints after 7 October.

The report said that while no instances of rape against Palestinians were reported, conservative cultural norms could have impeded reporting of sexual assault."

 

[Nick Carter icp]

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

 

"The UN report also said there had been allegations of sexual violence against Palestinians in Israeli custody, including "unwanted touching of intimate areas" and "prolonged forced nudity" in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints after 7 October.

The report said that while no instances of rape against Palestinians were reported, conservative cultural norms could have impeded reporting of sexual assault."

 

 

   "unwanted touching of intimate areas" is necessary for a full body search  , everywhere on th body needs to be searched to locate any weapons .

   

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   "unwanted touching of intimate areas" is necessary for a full body search  , everywhere on th body needs to be searched to locate any weapons .

   

Sure, but our apologists here will ignore that little fact.

[Brickleberry]

49 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That is an article from 10 years ago .which says 

 

"the bottom line is that Bell rejects the idea that Gaza is still occupied and believes it is thus impossible to find a positive obligation on Israel to continue to provide water and power"

 

 

I am bored with this issue now and I have lost interest , so I will move on 

 

Wrong article, and wrong author. What is it with pro Israelis not being able to read properly?

 

I am referring to the study that was commissioned this year by the Swiss NGO - this is the same section I previously sent you. The author's name has been underlined and put in bold for you:

Quote

Second, like the group of experts, Bothe believes that Israel does not have to formally occupy Gaza in order to have a positive obligation to provide it with water and power. The argument is dense; here is a key paragraph (p. 3):

 

[Brickleberry]

30 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

But nobody claimed there was mass rape, there was plenty though, including gang rape. The UN report has very credible claims of rapes and ongoing sexual abuses of hostages, more than allegations which is all that is in your links, including autopsy, witnesses, photographic. You should also note that since the report, released hostages have also "confirmed" the sexual abuse the were victims to in Gaza.

 

Of course Hamas denied all this much the same as you. But the UN also investigated the claims made by the Palestinians. 

 

"The UN report also said there had been allegations of sexual violence against Palestinians in Israeli custody, including "unwanted touching of intimate areas" and "prolonged forced nudity" in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints after 7 October.

The report said that while no instances of rape against Palestinians were reported, conservative cultural norms could have impeded reporting of sexual assault."

 

 

No, the UN did not 'investigate' anything. In fact, Israel has refused repeated UN requests to verify and investigate their claims of mass rape, and they have been denied access to investigate Palestinians claims. The UN repeatedly said in their report that this was NOT an investigation, and there was ZERO evidence for any claims on both sides.

 

Why no investigations if you are convinced it happened? Only guilty people don't want investigations. 

Why is there zero evidence from any of the body cams that Hamas wore? 

 

[Brickleberry]

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   "unwanted touching of intimate areas" is necessary for a full body search  , everywhere on th body needs to be searched to locate any weapons .

   

 

You're assuming that what this guy said as true... it is not.

Edited April 13 by Brickleberry

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Wrong article, and wrong author. What is it with pro Israelis not being able to read properly?

 

I am referring to the study that was commissioned this year by the Swiss NGO - this is the same section I previously sent you. The author's name has been underlined and put in bold for you:

 

 

    Israel faced war crime  charges at the ICJ and didn't get found to be guilty .

Hamas commit war crimes on a daily basis and you just want to make false claims about Israel committing war crimes .

   Seems to be a Hamas tactic , deny everything and make the same allegations against Israel 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

No, the UN did not 'investigate' anything. In fact, Israel has refused repeated UN requests to verify and investigate their claims of mass rape, and they have been denied access to investigate Palestinians claims. The UN repeatedly said in their report that this was NOT an investigation, and there was ZERO evidence for any claims on both sides.

 

Why no investigations if you are convinced it happened? Only guilty people don't want investigations. 

Why is there zero evidence from any of the body cams that Hamas wore? 

 

No, the UN did not 'investigate' anything. In fact, Israel has refused repeated UN requests to verify and investigate their claims of mass rape,

 

More lies.

 

Ms. Patten. The UN:

 

“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim.  It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers.  It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks.

“It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,” including sexual violence, she stated.  The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity. 

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

 

 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    Israel faced war crime  charges at the ICJ and didn't get found to be guilty .

Hamas commit war crimes on a daily basis and you just want to make false claims about Israel committing war crimes .

   Seems to be a Hamas tactic , deny everything and make the same allegations against Israel 

"Israel faced war crime  charges at the ICJ and didn't get found to be guilty ."

 

Not true. Israel faced genocide charges at the ICJ and 'didn't get found to be guilty'.

[Nick Carter icp]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"Israel faced war crime  charges at the ICJ and didn't get found to be guilty ."

 

Not true. Israel faced genocide charges at the ICJ and 'didn't get found to be guilty'.

 

   Its all the same thing, just different words .

Not allowing food in would be genocide, which is a war crime 

[Brickleberry]

48 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No, the UN did not 'investigate' anything. In fact, Israel has refused repeated UN requests to verify and investigate their claims of mass rape,

 

More lies.

 

Ms. Patten. The UN:

 

“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim.  It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers.  It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks.

“It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,” including sexual violence, she stated.  The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity. 

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

 

 

 

 

You are the only one lying. Why not read what the report says:

 

https://www.ungeneva.org/en/news-media/news/2024/03/91404/civilians-israel-and-palestine-cannot-be-abandoned-says-top-un#:~:text=their eyes'%3A Patten-,UN Secretary-General's Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict,on conflict-related sexual violence.

Quote

UN Secretary-General’s Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict, Pramila Patten, provided an overview of her mission to Israel and the West Bank, which was not investigative in nature, but aimed at gathering, analysing and verifying reports on conflict-related sexual violence.

 

 

Furthermore, her conclusions were based thusly, and they also debunked quite a few of Israel's lies too:

 

Quote

Conclusions were based on the credibility and reliability of sources and assessing whether or not there was information sufficient to determine a finding of fact, she said, noting that in a number of cases, the team assessed that certain allegations were unfounded

 

[Brickleberry]

51 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    Israel faced war crime  charges at the ICJ and didn't get found to be guilty .

Hamas commit war crimes on a daily basis and you just want to make false claims about Israel committing war crimes .

   Seems to be a Hamas tactic , deny everything and make the same allegations against Israel 

 

Lies.

 

The ICJ was not asked to rule on genocide. They were asked if it was plausible.

 

The judges agreed that it was plausible, and now Israel has to fight in the ICJ to prove that it is not a genocidal pariah state. Even the Israeli judge on the panel voted with the other judges on some measures:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/26/icj-ruling-israel-western-backers

Quote

The international court of justice’s (ICJ) ruling in South Africa’s genocide case was a powerful repudiation of Israel’s denialism. By an overwhelming majority, the court found a “plausible” case that provisional measures were needed to avoid “irreparable prejudice” from further Israeli acts in Gaza that could jeopardize Palestinian rights under the genocide convention.

The public posture of various Israeli officials was, in essence: how dare anyone accuse us of genocide. After all, they pointed out, Israel was founded after the Holocaust to protect the Jewish people from genocide, Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October, and many of Hamas’s statements seem genocidal in intent.

Yet none of that is a defense to the charge of genocide. Regardless of Israel’s history, regardless of its claim of self-defense, the means chosen to fight Hamas can still be genocidal. The court found enough merit in that claim to recognize that Palestinian civilians need the court’s protection.

The court’s ruling was also a repudiation of Israel’s western backers. The Biden administration had called the suit “meritless”. The British government said it was “nonsense”. By a vote of 15 to 2, the ICJ judges found otherwise.

On the need to allow humanitarian aid to a starving population in Gaza and to prevent and punish the incitement of genocide, even the respected Israeli judge, Aharon Barak, joined the majority, making the vote 16 to 1 – a powerful repudiation of those who try to chalk up challenges to Israel’s conduct in Gaza as an unfair double standard or antisemitism.

 

 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Its all the same thing, just different words .

Not allowing food in would be genocide, which is a war crime 

Time and time again your claims are shown to be not true.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

 

You are the only one lying. Why not read what the report says:

 

https://www.ungeneva.org/en/news-media/news/2024/03/91404/civilians-israel-and-palestine-cannot-be-abandoned-says-top-un#:~:text=their eyes'%3A Patten-,UN Secretary-General's Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict,on conflict-related sexual violence.

 

 

Furthermore, her conclusions were based thusly, and they also debunked quite a few of Israel's lies too:

 

 

You are lying, this is your claim:

 

No, the UN did not 'investigate' anything. In fact, Israel has refused repeated UN requests to verify and investigate their claims of mass rape,

 

I provided a link to the report of the investigation.

[Brickleberry]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You are lying, this is your claim:

 

No, the UN did not 'investigate' anything. In fact, Israel has refused repeated UN requests to verify and investigate their claims of mass rape,

 

I provided a link to the report of the investigation.

 

How can it be an investigation, if the author of the report specifically says: This was not an investigation. Here is more proof that you are lying through your teeth:

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1235824305/israel-sexual-assault-rape-hamas-attack-un-report#:~:text=The long-awaited report is,for sexual violence in conflict.

Quote

 

A report by the United Nations has found "reasonable grounds to believe" that the Oct. 7 Hamas-led attacks on Israel included sexual violence — including rape and gang rape — and that some Israeli hostages experienced such violence while in captivity in Gaza.

The long-awaited report is not a full-fledged U.N. investigation, according to its author, the U.N. special representative for sexual violence in conflict. Israel has blocked such an investigation by the U.N.'s human rights office over what the country's leaders allege is anti-Israel bias.

Still, it represents the most extensive report yet on the subject of sexual violence on Oct. 7 conducted by an independent body based outside of Israel.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Brickleberry said:

 

How can it be an investigation, if the author of the report specifically says: This was not an investigation. Here is more proof that you are lying through your teeth:

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1235824305/israel-sexual-assault-rape-hamas-attack-un-report#:~:text=The long-awaited report is,for sexual violence in conflict.

 

Read the report, not your links, the link to the actual report:

 

“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim.  It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers.  It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks.

“It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,” including sexual violence, she stated.  The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity. 

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

 

If you cant be bothered to read it then listen for 5 mins to the summary from Ms Batten herself rather than your constant misinformation

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Time and time again your claims are shown to be not true.

 

   OK, lets put that to the test .

State some of my claims that have been shown not to be true 

[Brickleberry]

10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Read the report, not your links, the link to the actual report:

 

“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim.  It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers.  It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks.

“It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,” including sexual violence, she stated.  The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity. 

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

 

If you cant be bothered to read it then listen for 5 mins to the summary from Ms Batten herself rather than your constant misinformation

 

 

Are you moronic? You have literally read it in black and white. Everyone with a brain cell or two can read multiple sources, and can hear from the woman herself when she says it was not an investigation.

 

I have honestly had enough of your lies. You should be ashamed of yourself because you are not fooling anyone.

 

Everyone with a brain cell can hear her say Israel has refused multiple investigations. You can lie and lie and lie all you like, but the facts remain: This was 10 days of walking around Israel and talking to a few people. How can they investigate and prove all of these allegations in such a short space of time, yet none of us have seen the evidence? I haven't even seen anyone from the UN say that they had found evidence. They found clear and convincing information - IE, someone told them about it, but they haven't seen anything that can prove it.

 

UNRWA allegations were leaked how long ago? 5 months? And we still have not had a full investigation because these things TAKE TIME.

 

Just in case you are too lazy to read it, here is a video:

 

And here is the actual report you have been lying about:

 

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

10 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Are you moronic? You have literally read it in black and white. Everyone with a brain cell or two can read multiple sources, and can hear from the woman herself when she says it was not an investigation.

 

I have honestly had enough of your lies. You should be ashamed of yourself because you are not fooling anyone.

 

Everyone with a brain cell can hear her say Israel has refused multiple investigations. You can lie and lie and lie all you like, but the facts remain: This was 10 days of walking around Israel and talking to a few people. How can they investigate and prove all of these allegations in such a short space of time, yet none of us have seen the evidence? I haven't even seen anyone from the UN say that they had found evidence. They found clear and convincing information - IE, someone told them about it, but they haven't seen anything that can prove it.

 

UNRWA allegations were leaked how long ago? 5 months? And we still have not had a full investigation because these things TAKE TIME.

 

Just in case you are too lazy to read it, here is a video:

 

And here is the actual report you have been lying about:

 

 

 

wait for it... the proof is coming... 

An eight-minute video of the interrogation of Tariq Salami Otha Abu Shlouf, a spokesperson for PIJ’s political bureau, was published by the Israeli army on Monday. In the clip, Shlouf can be heard detailing how the U.S.-designated terror group uses both Arabic and international media to create a false narrative about what is happening in the Gaza Strip. 

He also spoke about how terrorists have widely used all of Gaza’s hospitals and many of its ambulances while battling Israeli forces during the six-month war.