Donald Trump hush money trial, explained

[jerrymahoney]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

As id Cohen is the only witness and all the evidence 

No -- but he's prime time. But while I'm here:

 

Though the crime of falsifying business records is nominally a misdemeanor, the Manhattan district attorney’s office almost always charges it as a felony. ... The Times could identify only two other felony cases in Manhattan over the past decade in which defendants were indicted on charges of falsifying business records but no other crime.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/magazine/alvin-bragg-donald-trump-trial.html

 

 

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Though the crime of falsifying business records is nominally a misdemeanor, the Manhattan district attorney’s office almost always charges it as a felony. ...

Which is why they always fail to attain felony convictions

" Simply, if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime."

https://www.new-york-lawyers.org/falsifying-business-records-ny-pl-175-10-and-175-15.html#:~:text=Simply%2C if you delete%2C alter,have committed the felony crime.

9 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

The Times could identify only two other felony cases in Manhattan over the past decade in which defendants were indicted on charges of falsifying business records but no other crime.

"he intent to further or conceal another criminal offense" is the operative phrase here, 

[jerrymahoney]

19 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Which is why they always fail to attain felony convictions

" Simply, if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime."

https://www.new-york-lawyers.org/falsifying-business-records-ny-pl-175-10-and-175-15.html#:~:text=Simply%2C if you delete%2C alter,have committed the felony crime.

"he intent to further or conceal another criminal offense" is the operative phrase here, 

Thanks for straightening the NY Times out. I'm sure they would appreciate it.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

April 14, 2024

 

The jurors will be assessing Mr. Cohen, too. If even one does not believe his testimony, the trial could end with a hung jury, a clear victory for the former president. Todd Blanche, the lawyer leading the case, has told Mr. Trump in recent weeks that he can win the trial, people with knowledge of the discussion said.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/14/nyregion/trump-trial-manhattan.html

Hope springs eternal.

 

Todd Blanche tells Trump what Trump wants to hear shocker!

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Todd Blanche, the lawyer leading the case, has told Mr. Trump in recent weeks that he can win the trial, people with knowledge of the discussion said.

I will guess that remark was made in the context of some suggesting Trump should go for the misdemeanor:

 

 Then there’s another, less explored route that Trump’s team could try: asking the judge to give the jury the option of convicting him on lesser, misdemeanor offenses instead of the felony counts that have actually been brought by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and his team of prosecutors.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/11/trump-alvin-bragg-trial-win-00151558

[Danderman123]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:25 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Now you are entering the realm of fairness of the indictment process... their is approximately half of the USA voters who believe the system is currently rigged by the democratic party machine... who are you to say that they are wrong... will the day of reckoning ever appear... we will have to wait and see... so far all that you have are indictments... no convictions. 

The people who think the 2020 election was stolen are clueless deadenders who are wrong all the time. They and their antecedents are the people who supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq - until they didn't. They loved Dick Cheney - until they didn't. They think that tax cuts for billionaires will make them rich. 

 

 

[Danderman123]

50 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I will guess that remark was made in the context of some suggesting Trump should go for the misdemeanor:

 

 Then there’s another, less explored route that Trump’s team could try: asking the judge to give the jury the option of convicting him on lesser, misdemeanor offenses instead of the felony counts that have actually been brought by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and his team of prosecutors.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/11/trump-alvin-bragg-trial-win-00151558

That approach would lead to a sure conviction.

 

Trump has a good chance of winning against felony charges, or if he loses, appealing until he is dead. The felony charges are shaky.

[jerrymahoney]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

That approach would lead to a sure conviction.

Oh. Maybe they never thought of that.

[Walker88]

There are two facts that will be difficult for trump's team to defend:

 

1) Stormy was paid $130,000 for 'some reason'

 

2) Karen McDougal was paid $120,000 (I think, may be slightly different) for 'some reason'.

 

The man who actually orchestrated the payments admitted he did so, and was subsequently prosecuted and served time for that, plus other things (Michael Cohen).

 

Unless Cohen just had some uber-altruistic tendencies and decided to give these two women a gift, there's a larger story behind all of it.

 

It all points to trump, his affairs, and his fear of public knowledge of the affairs affecting his election chances in 2016. Of course it will be up to the jury to decide if there is a link, and if the link represents felony or misdemeanor behavior.

 

Let trump have his day in court (finally) to either prove his innocence or pay the price for his alleged crimes. There have been more than enough delays, and the voters have a right to know if one of the Presidential candidates committed felonies or not. To delay all of trump's criminal trials to after the election is unfair to the voting public. If trump is innocent of all 91 felony charges, let's find that out. If he's guilty, best we know that before giving such a person the nuclear codes.

[Danderman123]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Oh. Maybe they never thought of that.

Invoking misdemeanor charges would result in a sure conviction - unless Trump's attorneys are going to argue the facts of the case, in which case, if successful, they could beat misdemeanor or felony charges. 

[Danderman123]

Just now, Walker88 said:

There are two facts that will be difficult for trump's team to defend:

 

1) Stormy was paid $130,000 for 'some reason'

 

2) Karen McDougal was paid $120,000 (I think, may be slightly different) for 'some reason'.

 

The man who actually orchestrated the payments admitted he did so, and was subsequently prosecuted and served time for that, plus other things (Michael Cohen).

 

Unless Cohen just had some uber-altruistic tendencies and decided to give these two women a gift, there's a larger story behind all of it.

 

It all points to trump, his affairs, and his fear of public knowledge of the affairs affecting his election chances in 2016. Of course it will be up to the jury to decide if there is a link, and if the link represents felony or misdemeanor behavior.

 

Let trump have his day in court (finally) to either prove his innocence or pay the price for his alleged crimes. There have been more than enough delays, and the voters have a right to know if one of the Presidential candidates committed felonies or not. To delay all of trump's criminal trials to after the election is unfair to the voting public. If trump is innocent of all 91 felony charges, let's find that out. If he's guilty, best we know that before giving such a person the nuclear codes.

Trump could argue that Michael Cohen paid off the ladies without Trump's knowledge, to help win the 2016 election.

[Walker88]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump could argue that Michael Cohen paid off the ladies without Trump's knowledge, to help win the 2016 election.

While theoretically true, Cohen is rather pedantic about keeping documents and recordings of phone calls.

 

Also, if trump's defense takes that route, the prosecution will pull out all the stops to prove trump's (alleged) affairs, which means Stormy and McDougal on the stand and asked very 'delicate' questions where their descriptions would corroborate each other. While trump's team could still argue Cohen took it upon himself, the fact his account was made whole by "somebody" can be traced to specific bank accounts and authorizations. Besides, I really don't think trump wants the case to include detailed descriptions by the women who allege affairs. Remember how upset he got in the first Repub debate in 2016 when Marco Rubio commented about trump's 'tiny hands'.

[jerrymahoney]

18 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Invoking misdemeanor charges would result in a sure conviction - unless Trump's attorneys are going to argue the facts of the case, in which case, if successful, they could beat misdemeanor or felony charges. 

I don't know what you are going on about. I only posted that Politico misdemeanor story to suggest that is what maybe irked Blanche into saying 'We Can Win'.

[TorquayFan]

Danderman - "Trump could argue that Michael Cohen paid off the ladies without Trump's knowledge, to help win the 2016 election" . . . . except that Trump repaid Cohen with a series of CQ's bearing his signature.

 

Trump is due in Court this morning so that'll be interesting - unless he can contain his naturally abusive nature, he might be spending tonight behind bars.

 

Trump is in for a hard time - I understand there are many witnesses for the prosecution including some from Trump's own camp !

 

 

[Presto]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:19 AM, impulse said:

So, it happened before the 2016 election, but they waited until the 2024 election to drag him into court.  Like the 199? sexual assault trials...  Decades later, and just in time for an election year.

 

Election interference much?

 

Do you mean that anyone who has supposedly committed crimes should best run for office so that law enforcement will let it go?

I agree with your comments about the very slow speed of law enforcement here, and I'd like to add the one and a half year that Garland wasted to investigate Trump.

The rest is of course the endless delays by Trump and his lawyers to avoid a trial, while in the meantime crowing that he's completely innocent. Funny.

[scorecard]

On 4/14/2024 at 7:12 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Steady on.

 

Nobody is arguing there shouldn’t be a trial.

 

There are those arguing Trump should be above the law. 
 

Pick a side on that.

Easy. Nobody is above the law regardless of any circumstances / previous titles or anything else. No discussion needed / no discussion allowed. Case closed. How can it be anything else.

[metisdead]

A post using ALL CAPS has been removed,  please turn off your Caps Lock when posting. 

 

A post with a trolling meme has been removed.

[PETERTHEEATER]

Stormy Daniels has no idea what came over her.

[Danderman123]

13 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A Grand Jury reviews the evidence and testimony to determine if the indictments are warranted, the Grand Jury also has the right to conduct investigations and subpoena witnesses and evidence.

 

Welcome to team ‘Convictions are sometimes wrong’ 

 

I expect that’s going to be your argument if Trump is convicted.

 

Unless it's a case where a minority or illegal immigrant is the alleged killer. 

[thaipo7]

Tug - You are always on the wrong side of what is really happening, just like your Dear Leader Biden has been on the wrong side of history for over 40 years.  He has made the world much more unsafe that what it was 3 years ago.  Trump signed non-disclosure agreements with these women.  This is done every day in America by individuals and companies.  The name Non-disclosure agreement was not sounding sinister enough that 3 or 4 other DAs and other people who looked at this and walked away from it.  Then Alvin Bragg decided who would try a different approach on this.  He decided to call this "hush money" payments.  This made this sound more sinister and ran with it.  So now we have a hole change of Democrat hacks from DA Bragg up to the corrupt AG Garland.  Trump can not receive a fair trail in NY.  Just like Climate Change.  Global cooling did not catch on.  Global warming did not catch on as terms, but Climate Change was the term that worked and now is used exclusively.  Non-disclosure agreements are not illegal.  But ill informed people like you get a kick out of everything that is against Trump.  But you fail to see the weakness, ineptness, lying in jack wagon Biden.  A good term for this is "useful Idiot."  To me, I don't care that Trump is the person caught up in this.  It is the Dictatorial BS used here for the sole purpose of election interference so this empty suit of a man gets another 4 years make it really Obama's 4th term in the Transformation of America.  I know none of this will make a difference to you but their are others that will get the point.

[thaipo7]

’No easy task’ - The hunt for an impartial Trump jury in Manhattan.  This explains the trial in NY.  Applies to DC, GA, and other places in the US.  Yet this is were to corrupt justice system hauls Trump to.

[candide]

3 hours ago, thaipo7 said:

Tug - You are always on the wrong side of what is really happening, just like your Dear Leader Biden has been on the wrong side of history for over 40 years.  He has made the world much more unsafe that what it was 3 years ago.  Trump signed non-disclosure agreements with these women.  This is done every day in America by individuals and companies.  The name Non-disclosure agreement was not sounding sinister enough that 3 or 4 other DAs and other people who looked at this and walked away from it.  Then Alvin Bragg decided who would try a different approach on this.  He decided to call this "hush money" payments.  This made this sound more sinister and ran with it.  So now we have a hole change of Democrat hacks from DA Bragg up to the corrupt AG Garland.  Trump can not receive a fair trail in NY.  Just like Climate Change.  Global cooling did not catch on.  Global warming did not catch on as terms, but Climate Change was the term that worked and now is used exclusively.  Non-disclosure agreements are not illegal.  But ill informed people like you get a kick out of everything that is against Trump.  But you fail to see the weakness, ineptness, lying in jack wagon Biden.  A good term for this is "useful Idiot."  To me, I don't care that Trump is the person caught up in this.  It is the Dictatorial BS used here for the sole purpose of election interference so this empty suit of a man gets another 4 years make it really Obama's 4th term in the Transformation of America.  I know none of this will make a difference to you but their are others that will get the point.

Do you also believe the 2020 election has been stolen because of massive fraud?

Edited April 15 by candide

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 hours ago, Walker88 said:

There are two facts that will be difficult for trump's team to defend:

 

1) Stormy was paid $130,000 for 'some reason'

 

2) Karen McDougal was paid $120,000 (I think, may be slightly different) for 'some reason'.

 

The man who actually orchestrated the payments admitted he did so, and was subsequently prosecuted and served time for that, plus other things (Michael Cohen).

 

Unless Cohen just had some uber-altruistic tendencies and decided to give these two women a gift, there's a larger story behind all of it.

 

It all points to trump, his affairs, and his fear of public knowledge of the affairs affecting his election chances in 2016. Of course it will be up to the jury to decide if there is a link, and if the link represents felony or misdemeanor behavior.

 

Let trump have his day in court (finally) to either prove his innocence or pay the price for his alleged crimes. There have been more than enough delays, and the voters have a right to know if one of the Presidential candidates committed felonies or not. To delay all of trump's criminal trials to after the election is unfair to the voting public. If trump is innocent of all 91 felony charges, let's find that out. If he's guilty, best we know that before giving such a person the nuclear codes.

When Merchan asked the group if they could be fair and impartial, over half said no. At least 50 were let go from the jury pool for that reason.

[JJGittes]

On 4/14/2024 at 9:53 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Again with all the bull<deleted>... where are the convictions???

 

Stay tuned...

[Skipalongcassidy]

2 minutes ago, JJGittes said:

 

Stay tuned...

It's not a rhetorical question... 

[Tug]

10 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

When Merchan asked the group if they could be fair and impartial, over half said no. At least 50 were let go from the jury pool for that reason.

Yup trump ain’t a popular guy,extrapolate that to the election and it bodes ill for Mr trump’s chances + were are the throngs of trump supporters demonstrating for him?keeping in mind this is the least serious of trumps cases………he’s in deep deep trouble 

[Skipalongcassidy]

19 minutes ago, Tug said:

Yup trump ain’t a popular guy,extrapolate that to the election and it bodes ill for Mr trump’s chances + were are the throngs of trump supporters demonstrating for him?keeping in mind this is the least serious of trumps cases………he’s in deep deep trouble 

[Danderman123]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:25 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Now you are entering the realm of fairness of the indictment process... their is approximately half of the USA voters who believe the system is currently rigged by the democratic party machine... who are you to say that they are wrong... will the day of reckoning ever appear... we will have to wait and see... so far all that you have are indictments... no convictions. 

Many of these same people claim that the 2020 election was stolen via voter fraud.

 

Although they have no idea how or where or when.

[Danderman123]

52 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

That's called "jury tampering".

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

When Merchan asked the group if they could be fair and impartial, over half said no. At least 50 were let go from the jury pool for that reason.

What's your point? Trump is infamous. And some people just want to get out of serving on a long trial.