U.S. D list towns & cities revisited as low budget repatriation options (rent under 1000)

[Jingthing]

As many people know, I'm always interested in learning about backup retirement destination options to living in Thailand if for any reason Thailand isn't viable anymore (such as visa changes, etc.). 

 

My current list includes Mexico, Portugal, Panama, Cambodia, Philippines, and maybe Albania.

 

Probably if there was a rush to leave, Cambodia would be the first place to go, probably Siem Reap. 

 

But I've noticed some changes over the years both in the costs of some of these expat options and also my own financial situation.

 

To live in a desirable central place in Mexico, Portugal, and Panama the rents could easily be higher even much higher than an American "s"-hole town or city.

 

Housing of course is the biggest expense but health care can be even bigger.

 

Getting older being able to use Medicare back in the US is looking more and more attractive.

 

So "just for fun" I'm having an online look at U.S. D list towns and cities where you could rent a livable place for 1000 dollars a month or less for a basic OK one bedroom apartment.  Obviously almost always a car would be needed but junkers are cheap in the US so maybe OK.

 

Talking about people living on lower social security checks plus hopefully savings that would add up to poverty living, but still with a roof. 

 

D list towns and cities would not have very good dining and entertainment scenes but that would be OK because at poverty level you're eating at home anyway.

 

So it's basically trading that being able to eat out every day expat lifestyle for a depressing poverty level American cook and eat at home deal but trading for using Medicare and security of not worrying about visas anymore. Oh boy!

 

So let's get started.

 

What are your favorite American D list "s" holes?

 

If you say places like Cincinatti or Pittsburgh you're going above D list.

 

I'm thinking more like Alexandria, Louisiana or Idaho Falls, Idaho.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

How about senior living in beautiful Odessa, Texas!

One bedroom starting at $539.

https://www.apartments.com/magnolia-living-odessa-tx/gm6zvsz/

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

How about senior living in beautiful Odessa, Texas!

One bedroom starting at $539.

https://www.apartments.com/magnolia-living-odessa-tx/gm6zvsz/

I'm aware of Odessa. Yeah that kind of place. It sounds appropriately awful. Alexandria LA interested me because at least they have good Louisiana food that I couldn't afford. Moving there would probably feel like moving to a foreign country anyway.

[NoDisplayName]

So visit some apartment hunting sites, enter random cities with the filter set at maximum rent of $1000.

 

Phoenix, Arizona has 902 properties.

https://www.apartments.com/phoenix-az/under-1000/?bb=3k5tug84tM8q1i-9wJ&so=2

[EVENKEEL]

Personally I'd rather buy an old trailer in an RV park in Florida with monthly rent of approximately $500./mo.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Personally I'd rather buy an old trailer in an RV park in Florida with monthly rent of approximately $500./mo.

I don't believe it's that low.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I don't believe it's that low.

From what I've seen online I believe it's doable. Closer to beach areas rent goes up.

[Harsh Jones]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Personally I'd rather buy an old trailer in an RV park in Florida with monthly rent of approximately $500./mo.

Yeah and most of those places are overrun with homeless and drifters. You'd have to pay for a premium spot to get away from them and you'll be way past 500

[Jingthing]

Not thrilled with Florida especially in a trailer -- hurricanes.

Mobile parks are captive rental audiences so many horror stories.

Phoenix -- so incredibly hot.

Tucson -- seems more my style but also very hot and above D list.

 

I like the idea of an unpopular cool real estate market smaller city or big town.

Less traffic. 

A person on low social security plus savings generally isn't going to have a chance with a rental application for a 1000 a month unit through a corporate apartment building.

But in an area with soft demand, I assume deals can be made with private owners where you can make your case, negotiate long prepayment, large deposit, etc.

Also I think you'd get a better quality place for the same money in D list town vs. a popular city like Tucson. 

 

I'd like this topic to try to focus on D LIST TOWNS AND CITIES.

 

I just checked Odessa TX. It doesn't seem cheap enough. 

Neither does Idaho Falls ID previously mentioned!

 

OK, a downside of D list towns and cities is that there won't be a big supply of rentals. That could be a major problem compared to big cities.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Here are some more possibly D list towns and cities with maybe one bedrooms under 1000 to consider:

 

Johnson City TN

Brownsville TX

South Bend IN (I've been interested in Fort Wayne but it's over D list)

Huntington, WV

Ames IA

Toledo OH

[EVENKEEL]

20 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Yeah and most of those places are overrun with homeless and drifters. You'd have to pay for a premium spot to get away from them and you'll be way past 500

You've lived there before?

 

Some of these parks have old trailers permanently parked for sale for as little as 10k use. If someone is forced to repatriate due to health or other concerns then this is a viable alternative to living in a car.

 

Homeless people are everywhere. I'd  classifify many expats as drifters.

[pomchop]

21 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Yeah and most of those places are overrun with homeless and drifters. You'd have to pay for a premium spot to get away from them and you'll be way past 500

and so you buy an old rundown trailer and pay $500 a month in lease rent until the owner of the land decides to double or triple the rent or more likely sell the entire property to a developer for condos and you are given a few months notice to get your mobile off the lot which is not cheap and often mobile so old can't be moved safely and even then where u gonna move it and who pays for that?....not a lot of long term leases offered at those prices..

[impulse]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:29 AM, Jingthing said:

Obviously almost always a car would be needed but junkers are cheap in the US so maybe OK.

 

Junkers are cheap, but I was paying $160 a month for liability insurance.  High limits, but just liability.  That's 5-10x what I was paying in Thailand for similar limits.  I bought a junker, thinking I'd only be in the US for a few months, then Covid hit.  Had I known I'd be a Covid refugee, I'd have spent more for a better car.  Oh well.

 

 

[impulse]

5 hours ago, pomchop said:

and so you buy an old rundown trailer and pay $500 a month in lease rent until the owner of the land decides to double or triple the rent or more likely sell the entire property to a developer for condos and you are given a few months notice to get your mobile off the lot which is not cheap and often mobile so old can't be moved safely and even then where u gonna move it and who pays for that?....not a lot of long term leases offered at those prices..

 

I paid $300 on EBay for a lot in a lakeside Texas community where I can build a shack (no RV's or Mobiles allowed).  Mine's about a block from the lake, with homes on both sides of mine.

 

You can still buy an RV permissive lot for a few thousand bucks.  Or a lot that allows small and even tiny homes.   It won't be in a prime location, but that's not a huge issue if you don't have to commute to work.  Some of the neighborhoods I watched for years really took off during Covid (and the mad rush of Californians and New Yorkers fleeing to Texas).  Lots that were in the $2,000- $3,000 range are now in the $20,000+ range, and it happened pretty much overnight.  But you can still find cheap ones.  Just watch the restrictive covenants to make sure you can build what you want, and avoid the kind of neighbors that you want.

 

Edit:  I'd add that it's probably going to cost $5,000 or so to get my $300 lot connected to water and sewer (or septic).  And a few hundred $$$ to get connected to power (already on the lot).  But still, amortize that over 5 years and it's peanuts per month.  It's a plan C for me, or I can probably sell the lot to one of my neighbors who would expand their back yard.

 

[pomchop]

23 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I paid $300 on EBay for a lot in a lakeside Texas community where I can build a shack (no RV's or Mobiles allowed).  Mine's about a block from the lake, with homes on both sides of mine.

 

You can still buy an RV permissive lot for a few thousand bucks.  Or a lot that allows small and even tiny homes.   It won't be in a prime location, but that's not a huge issue if you don't have to commute to work.  Some of the neighborhoods I watched for years really took off during Covid (and the mad rush of Californians and New Yorkers fleeing to Texas).  Lots that were in the $2,000- $3,000 range are now in the $20,000+ range, and it happened pretty much overnight.  But you can still find cheap ones.  Just watch the restrictive covenants to make sure you can build what you want, and avoid the kind of neighbors that you want.

 

Edit:  I'd add that it's probably going to cost $5,000 or so to get my $300 lot connected to water and sewer (or septic).  And a few hundred $$$ to get connected to power (already on the lot).  But still, amortize that over 5 years and it's peanuts per month.  It's a plan C for me, or I can probably sell the lot to one of my neighbors who would expand their back yard.

 

to each his own but i have zero desire to live in texas...but that sounds like a good deal to own the lot and not lease it.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I paid $300 on EBay for a lot in a lakeside Texas community where I can build a shack (no RV's or Mobiles allowed).  Mine's about a block from the lake, with homes on both sides of mine.

 

You can still buy an RV permissive lot for a few thousand bucks.  Or a lot that allows small and even tiny homes.   It won't be in a prime location, but that's not a huge issue if you don't have to commute to work.  Some of the neighborhoods I watched for years really took off during Covid (and the mad rush of Californians and New Yorkers fleeing to Texas).  Lots that were in the $2,000- $3,000 range are now in the $20,000+ range, and it happened pretty much overnight.  But you can still find cheap ones.  Just watch the restrictive covenants to make sure you can build what you want, and avoid the kind of neighbors that you want.

 

Edit:  I'd add that it's probably going to cost $5,000 or so to get my $300 lot connected to water and sewer (or septic).  And a few hundred $$$ to get connected to power (already on the lot).  But still, amortize that over 5 years and it's peanuts per month.  It's a plan C for me, or I can probably sell the lot to one of my neighbors who would expand their back yard.

Yes, plenty of land to buy, that you could have a bore hole for water and been perc tested.   I bought one decades ago in the Poconos (Appalachian Mts/east coast USA), and was already to build when the land survey came back and closest neighbor's septic tank and one wall was found to be on our property    Made things easy and just sold our lot to him.   Could have just gave him an easement to use, but the lots weren't that big.

 

That would be the way to go, for me, or simple buy or rent something away from the main, at reasonable prices.   Anywhere without employment/job opportunities and or good school districts would be inexpensive.   Things you don't need in retirement.  Easily affordable 

[impulse]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That would be the way to go, for me, or simple buy or rent something away from the main, at reasonable prices.   Anywhere without employment/job opportunities and or good school districts would be inexpensive.   Things you don't need in retirement.  Easily affordable

 

I think that's the key, retirees can easily live in areas that have little or no appeal to families who have to concern themselves with jobs, commuting, schools, etc.  That opens up a lot of cheap real estate options.  (And not just in Texas, pomchop) 

 

Expecting I'll get ripped for saying this, all I need is a Walmart within 10 miles and a PO box to receive Amazon/Ebay packages.  With Medicare (Advantage Plan), I need to drive an hour anyway and wait months for routine appointments, so that's not much of a differential.

 

I chose to buy a lot so I don't have to worry about maintenance or property taxes.  (And, I couldn't resist a $300 EBay deal.)  But if I needed a place to live tomorrow, there's similar deals on houses, as long as the boondocks are okay.

 

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

Expecting I'll get ripped for saying this, all I need is a Walmart within 10 miles and a PO box to receive Amazon/Ebay packages.  With Medicare (Advantage Plan), I need to drive an hour anyway and wait months for routine appointments, so that's not much of a differential.

 

I chose to buy a lot so I don't have to worry about maintenance or property taxes.  (And, I couldn't resist a $300 EBay deal.)  But if I needed a place to live tomorrow, there's similar deals on houses, as long as the boondocks are okay.

Agree, and in TH, all we needed was a Makro.  We bought the land here at PKK, a few years before moving here, (too cheap to pass up) and didn't decide to build until Makro arrived.  Having Global House & HomePro built about the same time was just a plus, and nice having competitive builder suppliers.   Didn't have that when building 1st house at Udon Thani 24 yrs ago.

 

No Uni here, no private schools, that I know of, no real jobs, except the Dole processing plant, and not near us.  Bay is beautiful, but you can't swim in it.   Other job opportunities are simply restaurants and guesthouses for weekenders, and local with a bit of extra pocket change.

 

Actually surprised how good the govt hospital here is.  Must be some influential politician living in the area, since Amphur Muang.

 

Don't need or want nightlife, or big expat community to socialize with, and tourism provided isn't even geared to foreigners, except maybe Chinese.

[Rampant Rabbit]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

We bought the land here at PKK, a few years before moving here, (too cheap to pass up

It was  even cheaper before you bought, got 15 rai 3km from main road Phetkasem for 800k baht for all of it not per  rai in 2011, Fort Thanarat down the road No global then, think theres a  private school almost opposite Thanarat fort just past the traffic lights heading  towards Pranburi   got a big ad outside it saying how good they are.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Yes, plenty of land to buy, that you could have a bore hole for water and been perc tested.   I bought one decades ago in the Poconos (Appalachian Mts/east coast USA), and was already to build when the land survey came back and closest neighbor's septic tank and one wall was found to be on our property    Made things easy and just sold our lot to him.   Could have just gave him an easement to use, but the lots weren't that big.

 

That would be the way to go, for me, or simple buy or rent something away from the main, at reasonable prices.   Anywhere without employment/job opportunities and or good school districts would be inexpensive.   Things you don't need in retirement.  Easily affordable 

That's a good point about D list options. Crappy job markets and bad schools but if retired who cares. But there are also downsides like high crime and crumbling infrastructure, etc.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Junkers are cheap, but I was paying $160 a month for liability insurance.  High limits, but just liability.  That's 5-10x what I was paying in Thailand for similar limits.  I bought a junker, thinking I'd only be in the US for a few months, then Covid hit.  Had I known I'd be a Covid refugee, I'd have spent more for a better car.  Oh well.

 

 

Yeah and that's but one example of the price shocks awaiting repatriating long term expats.

[Trippy]

If I had to move back Vegas would be my first choice. A little higher prices than you desire, but can rent a good 1 bedroom condo for about 1200/month. 

But there's just so many things to do there, many are free. Unless you just want to stay home everyday?

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Trippy said:

If I had to move back Vegas would be my first choice. A little higher prices than you desire, but can rent a good 1 bedroom condo for about 1200/month. 

But there's just so many things to do there, many are free. Unless you just want to stay home everyday?

Ideally the goal would actually be well under 1000 like 800 or even less because rents always go up and social security COLAS never make up for price rises.

So yeah this topic is really only about D list places.

Some D list places do offer more than others as far as possible activities.

Like Huntington WV.

 

As people are always getting older, there is a morbid consideration in choosing price levels that is kind of similar to choices made for when to take Social Security.

If based on your current age and your current educated guess about life expectancy, one might choose to take a higher risk on a higher cost area which would mean spending down nest eggs faster. Of course for people with only a low social security check and no nest egg, choices like that are much more limited.

 

[Jingthing]

I've become Louisiana curious.

Why?

Well I've been there of course to New Orleans but it's much more than that.

Most of the state if very poor.

So if you move there poor, heck, join the crowd, maybe less depressing.

Also the culture is so different. It could be like moving to a foreign country moving there. As expats we're used to that kind of culture shock. On the other hand moving to a fictional Middle American place like "Normal" Ohio wouldn't have that going on. 

 

 

For example, how about Lafayette, LA? Home of the Rajun' Cajuns!

[Trippy]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Ideally the goal would actually be well under 1000 like 800 or even less because rents always go up and social security COLAS never make up for price rises.

So yeah this topic is really only about D list places.

Some D list places do offer more than others as far as possible activities.

Like Huntington WV.

 

Everybody has their own preferences. Personally I would rather live where I want, and if I'm short of cash get a part time job, or even 2 days a week driving Uber. 

But that's cool, I won't comment on this topic further.

[Jingthing]

There is something else to consider as far as long term strategic planning.

The topic here is for potential lower income returning retired expats.

A possibly great option for such people is Senior HUD subsidized housing.

This is not Section 8. These are specific buildings often affiliated with religious groups and some of them are quite decent.

If approved your rent is 1/3 of your income. Assets are irrelevant to the rent. 

So a fantastic option for low income retired people. 

But as you might expect the supply of these units is much less than the demand.

There are multi year waiting lists and specific rigid application processes.

For example if you've ever been evicted, you are disqualified.

So long term returning expats would not be in a position to realistically apply for such housing before building a local profile to support their application.

I have no idea how HUD would view long term expats where they really can't track your record over those years. It might be a big problem, or not. I don't know. 

What I'm getting at is that for people that would benefit from HUD senior housing, it's worth researching whether a location has any or not and if it has any, is it any good?

I assume rural areas and small towns probably wouldn't have any.

So that's an argument for higher population places which generally will have some senior HUD housing.

Of course no guarantees even if it exists, but worth adding to criteria. 

Realistically when you add building a local record and waiting lists, I guess this is not something that could happen before four or five years back in the U.S.

[John Drake]

Just did a quick look at house rentals in Goliad, Texas, because I happened to have Goliad on my mind. Several houses around $1000 or less listed on rental dot com. Goliad strikes me as a pretty good place. South Texas, warm, picturesque in places. https://www.goliadtx.net/

[BKKKevin]

I have my eye on Tucson AZ as plan B... A nice liberal city with good infrastructure and health care... a number of 55+ communities... The only drawback I see is the summers are brutal hot... But that can be a nice time to travel off season to Mexico (I've lived in Aijijicon Lake Chapala)....

 

Check out 

https://www.mhvillage.com

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, BKKKevin said:

I have my eye on Tucson AZ as plan B... A nice liberal city with good infrastructure and health care... a number of 55+ communities... The only drawback I see is the summers are brutal hot... But that can be a nice time to travel off season to Mexico (I've lived in Aijijicon Lake Chapala)....

 

Check out 

https://www.mhvillage.com

Tucson seems like a great place to retire to me as well but it's above D list.

 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Just did a quick look at house rentals in Goliad, Texas, because I happened to have Goliad on my mind. Several houses around $1000 or less listed on rental dot com. Goliad strikes me as a pretty good place. South Texas, warm, picturesque in places. https://www.goliadtx.net/

Tiny place but a bigger city in the vicinity is Victoria TX and that's well within D list  boundaries.