Just took my own good advice to buy new efficient AC. Tks TV!

[cleopatra2]

7 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

For whatever reason:

 

I REALLY like to see people saving money on electric power bills, for the life of the appliance, just through doing a few easy calculations.

 

If one's ACs are ALWAYS ON, as are mine, then these power-bill savings can be significant.

 

If one can increase efficiency by just 30 percent, then if one's normal power bill for cooling, including the refrigerator(s) and ACs, is Bt.3000 per month, one can save Bt.900 per month.  Also, the inverter-AC will provide a more stable room temperature, and will be less noisy, and will provide better dehumidification, as well.

 

YES, do your own research, because the PURPOSE of this Topic is solely to get someone to THINK about efficiency BEFORE buying an appliance.

 

 

What is cost effective for yourself does not equate that it is cost effective for everybody.

Consider if I was purchasing an AC unit for a bedroom that would only operate for 2 hours each night

 

Should I buy a unit with a lower efficiency rating for 16,000 baht or a more efficient unit costing 42,000 baht.

Let's say ( I have not done the actual maths) that the less efficient unit will cost an extra 2 baht in usage over the more efficient unit. How many nights of usage is required before the additional 26,000 baht purchase price pays for itself.

[GammaGlobulin]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

How is the AC going and what is the COP?

 

One more note about COP calculations for choosing consumer ACs....

 

a. Using the simplest way to compare various ACs for power efficiency in the retail store is the best way, and so using EER as a ratio for comparison is quickest and best.  

b. These days, most ACs in Thailand do show the SEER value, although, in some cases, one must first do a short search.

c. If you want to calculate the COP ratio, then please just refer to the calculations on Wikipedia or on many of the other sites devoted to AC and HeatPump efficiency.  (HeatPump becomes a STUPID term when anyone tries to use the term to differentiate a "heatpump" from an "AC", as we all know.  Why? An AC ...IS a heatpump, even though it might not provide heat to the room in the winter.  I chose AC (heat-pump) units with both cooling/heating settings in Taiwan because winters are fairly cool. It makes a lot of sense to have the same unit cool and heat the house.  Also, this is far more efficient than using electric heaters or "heat-strips" inside the AC.)

 

So, please refer to articles such as these to read more about COP calculations and Energy Efficiency quantification:

 

 

https://www.atlantissolar.com/cop_eer.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

 

If you, Joe Consumer, intend to design your own AC unit, and build it yourself, using off-the-shelf components, then by all means, please study thermodynamics, and please understand that, just like a combustion engine, increasing the engine temperature (measured in the combustion chamber), and decreasing ambient temperature where the combusted gasses are expelled, can improve efficiency. This is Physics 101, right?

 

But, the average consumer just needs to calculate EER in order to know which AC unit is comparatively more efficient.

 

The average consumer has no need to calculate efficiency using calculations used in the study of thermodynamics,....maybe....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

 

In Conclusion:

 

a. Use the calculated SEER or EER values shown on the AC unit, or in the sales literature, or calculate them yourself, or ask the manufacturer.

b. It's helpful to check the noise ratings and compare the dB values published by the manufacturer:

https://www.daikin-ce.com/en_us/daikin-blog/what-do-air-conditioner-noise-ratings-mean.html

 

Panasonic ACs that I buy are quieter than many others.

The dB rating is listed in the sales literature.

 

I hate noise.

BUT, you may LOVE noise, especially if you have chosen to live in Thailand.

Therefore, if you LOVE NOISE as much as many here, then choose the AC with the HIGHEST db(A) rating for both the indoor and outdoor units of your ACs.  This way, you can enjoy MORE NOISE, 24/7, the way you really like it!

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

(HeatPump becomes a STUPID term when anyone tries to use the term to differentiate a "heatpump" from an "AC", as we all know.  Why? An AC ...IS a heatpump, even though it might not provide heat to the room in the winter.  I chose AC (heat-pump) units with both cooling/heating settings in Taiwan because winters are fairly cool. It makes a lot of sense to have the same unit cool and heat the house.  Also, this is far more efficient than using electric heaters or "heat-strips" inside the AC.)

 

Why do some (fools) try to differentiate a "HEATPUMP" from an "AC"?

 

a.  This is a heat pump:

 

 

b.  This is a schematic of a Wall Air Conditioner:

 

 

c.  What is the difference?

Duh!

 

d. It disgusts me when I hear NITWITS using HEATPUMP to differentiate a Heat Pump FROM A Heat Pump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But I love it when I see people using heat pumps to both cool and heat their homes.  Heat Pumps deliver the highest efficiencies when using electric power to heat homes, and cool them.

https://protonsforbreakfast.wordpress.com/2021/05/15/air-conditioning-versus-air-source-heat-pump/

 

 

In Conclusion:

If one is really INTERESTED in how HeatPumps work, ...

Then, please apply at university and study a bit of thermodynamics.

 

Or, follow along with this course...?

 

OK...

Let's START!

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

53 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

What is cost effective for yourself does not equate that it is cost effective for everybody.

Consider if I was purchasing an AC unit for a bedroom that would only operate for 2 hours each night

 

Should I buy a unit with a lower efficiency rating for 16,000 baht or a more efficient unit costing 42,000 baht.

Let's say ( I have not done the actual maths) that the less efficient unit will cost an extra 2 baht in usage over the more efficient unit. How many nights of usage is required before the additional 26,000 baht purchase price pays for itself.

 

Of course.

If you intend to not use your AC, then...

Don't buy one.

You can save even MORE money, this way.

 

Also, consider the re-sale value of a machine with a high EER vs a low EER.

 

If you intend to use your AC for 2 hours each night...then...that would be utter stupidity....why?

Because, it might take almost one hour to get room to desired cooler temp.

Also, operating any AC in this way is less efficient.

 

Just get a fan, FanBoy!

 

 

[daveAustin]

I meant what is the cop of your unit not what is cop. 

[GammaGlobulin]

Why do we see some people buying cheap ACs, and then....

 

After a months or so....

 

They just stop using them.

They refuse to run their ACs.

The ACs sit installed in their rooms/homes, but are rarely used, no matter how hot it gets.

 

WHY, of WHY, is this?

 

The ACs sit so long that they just rust/corrode, and probably stop working after a few years of sitting idle.

 

What causes this misuse/underuse?

 

I think it is the case of power costs, power costs which AC users are reticent about paying.

 

This is why it is important to choose the highest EER rating that you can find.

 

When one chooses an AC that has a 90-percent higher efficiency rating than one with an EER of 13.5, then the AC is much more likely to be used during very hot days, and even routinely at night, or, in my case....I never turn off the ACs (or, I never have in over 10 years living in The Heat of Thailand).

 

Maybe they buy ACs as a matter of establishing FACE and Position-in-Society?

I have an AC:  Look at ME!

I never turn on my AC:  But, Look at ME!; I have an AC sitting in my window....rusting away....to scrap metal.

 

 

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

FALSE logic IF you maintain there are any contradictions in my comments, Sir.

 

Here is an example of why your claim is false:

 

a. I do not thank the people in ChengDu city, China, for spitting out huge green gobby-globs onto the public pavements of the city.

 

b. The reason I thank the people of ChengDu city is that they really know how to either prepare or enjoy the dish, Ants Climbing a Tree (Ants Climbing a Tree (ma yi shang shu – 蚂蚁上树) is a classic Sichuan dish consisting of glass noodles in a delicious sauce with ground pork.).

 

You see?

 

 

Your superior intellect goes far beyond mine. Have a nice day sir.

[GammaGlobulin]

10 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

I meant what is the cop of your unit not what is cop. 

 

OH....

Very sorry, Sir.

 

Basing upon the published SEER ratings for three Panasonic ACs:....approximate 23 to 24:

 

Average COP for all three ACs is approximately 6.8

Not sure if this might help you, though.

Because, here in Thailand, most ACs show SEER values, or, more infrequently, EER values.

Therefore, when shopping for a new AC, and making your shopping comparisons.....I think...it might be...MORE HELPFUL for you to....use....

SEER as your standard of unit-of-efficiency when doing AC unit comps....

Right?

 

 

[owl sees all]

TBH, I'm saddened at the amount of wimps there are here. Air-con?! Fans!?

 

Ever heard of trees? Get a decent book, a cool drink, and make yerself comfortable under it. Do what nature intended.

Edited April 27 by owl sees all

[GammaGlobulin]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

TBH, I'm saddened at the amount of wimps there are here. Sir-con?! Fans!?

 

Ever heard of trees? Get a decent book, a cool drink, and make yerself comfortable under it. Do what nature intended.

 

I am all for that!

100-percent agree with you, Sir.

 

A cool drink.

A decent chair.

Make yourself comfortable.

Even a decent book on Global Warming would be good for what Nature intended.

 

[Wrwest]

As air is the topic and my PEA Bill just arrived, I report in ... new house, I had 4 Daiken units installed. 3 about 13K units in the 3 bedrooms. About 17K for the living room. 551 consumption = 2,625.65 baht this month (March - April 24). About half a month now, 2 air conditioners on. At night, 2 bedrooms, after about 10:00am, Living room and my office. After 16:00 Living room only until bedtime. Bill this month as we enter the hot hot season, about 1200 baht higher than last month. On balance? Geez, less than $100.00 USD for electric ... Not going to break the budget ... any praying is not for lower bill but rather that the electric stays on ... and in my 13 years here, it rarely goes off and then usually for less that an hour.

[GammaGlobulin]

44 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

As air is the topic and my PEA Bill just arrived, I report in ... new house, I had 4 Daiken units installed. 3 about 13K units in the 3 bedrooms. About 17K for the living room. 551 consumption = 2,625.65 baht this month (March - April 24). About half a month now, 2 air conditioners on. At night, 2 bedrooms, after about 10:00am, Living room and my office. After 16:00 Living room only until bedtime. Bill this month as we enter the hot hot season, about 1200 baht higher than last month. On balance? Geez, less than $100.00 USD for electric ... Not going to break the budget ... any praying is not for lower bill but rather that the electric stays on ... and in my 13 years here, it rarely goes off and then usually for less that an hour.

 

Please provide the SEER ratings for all ACs that you mention.

When you say 13K units, do you mean AC units having a cooling capacity of 13,000 BTU at maximum cooling?

This is the only way to draw any conclusions from your testimonial.

 

Also, does your house have sufficient insulation installed?

What about shading from trees and shrubs, etc?

 

If you mean that your savings have been Bt.1200 per month in electric costs, then this would amount to savings which might be significant to some on a budget.

 

Moreover:  If we multiply your energy savings by ONE MILLION, then...this energy saving is SIGNIFICANT for our planet.  Or, should we just kiss the planet GOODBYE, at this point? 

 

Yes, and I do agree with you that the Gaia Hypothesis is still alive and well, and even more valid today than ever before:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/gaia-hypothesis

 

Tim Lenton, out of Exeter, is definitely one of my personal heroes. I like this guy's taste in wooden antique furniture, as well.

 

https://www.man.com/maninstitute/ri-podcast-tom-lenton

Underlying Science of Climate Change, etc., for dummies....

 

Tim is always a great interview....IMHO....

 

 

 

Edited April 27 by GammaGlobulin

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, Wrwest said:

As air is the topic and my PEA Bill just arrived, I report in ... new house, I had 4 Daiken units installed. 3 about 13K units in the 3 bedrooms. About 17K for the living room. 551 consumption = 2,625.65 baht this month (March - April 24). About half a month now, 2 air conditioners on. At night, 2 bedrooms, after about 10:00am, Living room and my office. After 16:00 Living room only until bedtime. Bill this month as we enter the hot hot season, about 1200 baht higher than last month. On balance? Geez, less than $100.00 USD for electric ... Not going to break the budget ... any praying is not for lower bill but rather that the electric stays on ... and in my 13 years here, it rarely goes off and then usually for less that an hour.

 

a. If you are saying that Bt.1200, give or take, makes no difference to you, and will not break your budget, then you are speaking more abut your financial resources, and your uncaring about energy use issues.

 

b. If you wish to contribute usable data in order to draw conclusions concerning potential savings from increased AC efficiency, then this comment fails, miserably.  

 

c.  You need to present data which helps to make a comparison between a house (A) which uses machines having SEER ratings of 13.5, and a house (B) which uses machines having SEER ratings of 23.  You need to run the ACs in both houses for the same number of hours during the same times of day.  

 

d.  Basically, your comment implies that you are conducting some sort of informative experiment which can yield meaningful data, and lead to valid conclusions.

 

If you wish to conduct such an experiment, then please be more careful with your variables:

 

I hope this info will be helpful when you design your next AC-efficiency experiment.

 

 

 

[john donson]

that seems extreme expensive

[GammaGlobulin]

6 hours ago, john donson said:

that seems extreme expensive

 

The Panasonic AC, the one shown on the Panasonic website, with the present promotion at the major retailer, sold for Bt.42000, yesterday.

The last unit at that retailer, and no more in Thailand.

Bt.42000 for that machine is quite a decent price, compared to what else is on offer for that cooling capacity, and for that efficiency performance, and for the Brand.

Hitachi equivalent is more, by quite a lot.

The only issue may still occur if the machine is defective in some way, such as due to manufacturing QC problem, because, being the last unit in Thailand, the retailer will be unable to replace a defective AC with its identical equivalent.

And, if that happens, the only option will be to notify Panasonic service and see what they do in response.

 

These Panasonic ACs, the machines of this cooling capacity, and the ones with SEER of 23, are quite good, if there are no QC issues from the manufacturer in Malaysia.

 

The indoor evaporator is quite a bit larger than less efficient models.

 

I am not sure what model, if any, Samsung will introduce to maintain an offering having efficiency this high, or higher.

Maybe they will just offer the model being stocked now, which seems to have an SEEER of 20.

 

Also, the discontinued model I purchased yesterday has a 10-year compressor warranty.

Not a bad price, perhaps,.... considering....

 

(I have not checked, but it might be true that this Panasonic model is still available from other retailers or Panasonic.  However, this is not what the sales person told me yesterday.)

 

 

Edited April 27 by GammaGlobulin

[tweedledee2]

23 hours ago, charleskerins said:

Yes and one of his attackers is on another thread accusing of others of being nasty.    Hypocrite  I find Gammas posts quite informative. In fact I was just going to purchase an aC and now Im going to do a little more research.

Here's the IP address on HomePro for the same AC unit at a lower price.

https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1190587

[GammaGlobulin]

50 minutes ago, tweedledee2 said:

Here's the IP address on HomePro for the same AC unit at a lower price.

https://www.homepro.co.th/p/1190587

 

Yes.

Correct.

Thank you.

Also, I did show this HomePro listing, previously.

This model is no longer in stock.

I purchased the AC unit, two days ago, for the price shown in your link.

Good price.

Decent machine, too!

 

PLEASE NOTE: Out of Stock, just as I stated

 

Edited April 28 by GammaGlobulin