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Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax


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1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

I suggest you use the word "avoid" and not "evade."  One is legal, the other is illegal, and can not be discussed. 

 

Currently, gifting is legal, and tax free, and a way to "avoid" paying this tax.  Yes, it's not in the spirit of the legislation, but that's the Thai government's problem, a problem I am sure they will address in 2025 when they see how gifting is being used as a tax avoidance strategy.

 

On that basis, I encourage members to have a Plan B strategy because I have a feeling you will be needing it in the future.  I can see a tweak in the policy whereby gifts will be taxed, or the money to the Thai missus will be deemed an income and she will be taxed on it. 

I agree - and in the future the Thai Govt will address the issue. But I think they will not remove the gifting rule, but they will probably reduce it. After all, 20 million baht is a ridiculous amount that onyl the wealthy would utilise - which is of course why it was introduced in the first place. 

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9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How do the frogs know that the money from yearly income was not savings from before 2024?

The frogs may ask for supporting documents. 

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9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Seems like an easy way to avoid taxes. 
There are many other but I don't know if I am allowed to talk about them. 

 

You aren't. 😉

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4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Seems like an easy way to avoid taxes. 
There are many other but I don't know if I am allowed to talk about them. 

 

That's why I suggested it months ago. 

 

Yes, there can be a fine line between tax evasion and tax avoidance. 

 

Wealthy individuals and companies have taken on government's in Courts all around the world for rulings on whether a practice is evasion or avoidance.

 

I just mentioned certain practices may not be in the spirit of the legislation, but that does not make them illegal, therefore, maybe we can discuss them here.    I would be interested in your other strategies.  I have a few of my own as well. 

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9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Seems like an easy way to avoid taxes. 
There are many other but I don't know if I am allowed to talk about them. 

 

You aren't. 😉

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26 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

it's not about will they monitor this or that it's not about the various workarounds, discussions about those will not be held here!

Why not? A discussion of possible workarounds is certainly germane to this subject. Yes, if the workaround would definitely be illegal -- then, yes, disallow. Possibly illegal? Allow discussion, with caveat of potential illegality. I guess the one workaround you will allow is: Leave the country.

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Some rich foreigners(and one Thai) I know in Phuket and Koh Pa Ngan only transfer BTC from abroad. 

 

BTC is now accepted in most countries and is even the national currency in El Salvador. 

 

Can the Thai government track BTC transactions? 

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1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Why not? A discussion of possible workarounds is certainly germane to this subject. Yes, if the workaround would definitely be illegal -- then, yes, disallow. Possibly illegal? Allow discussion, with caveat of potential illegality. I guess the one workaround you will allow is: Leave the country.

Were only eight pages in and already we've removed posts that described potential ways to evade tax and we've got a couple of members itching to talk around the subject, as close to the line as possible....it's NOT going to happen. 

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3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Some rich foreigners(and one Thai) I know in Phuket and Koh Pa Ngan only transfer BTC from abroad. 

 

BTC is now accepted in most countries and is even the national currency in El Salvador. 

 

Can the Thai government track BTC transactions? 

The following link describes the tax on digital assets that are imported.

 

https://sherrings.com/cryptocurrency-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

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6 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

The frogs may ask for supporting documents. 

 

Get real......99% of people will not have kept records of where savings money came from over decades....

 

Savings money sources cant be proven by anybody except by maybe the few who were compulsive record keeps....

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1 minute ago, redwood1 said:

 

Get real......99% of people will not have kept records of where savings money came from over decades....

 

Savings money sources cant be proven by anybody except by maybe the few who were compulsive record keeps....

They only need to prove the savings as at 1 January 2024 and that they existed prior to that date.

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Below is the notice I posted when the thread was first started, please read it again and follow the spirit and letter of what is intended:

 

Several members are itching to discuss ways of avoiding paying tax in Thailand and have been asked not to. This is because discussions about legal ways to mitigate/reduce/avoid tax, nearly always end up discussing illegal ways to evade tax, which must not be discussed here. Part of the problem is that these things are not always black and white and the area of grey that exists in the middle is often open to interpretation, which differs from person to person.

 

If everyone promises to behave and not cross the line or play word games, we can discuss ways to legally mitigate/reduce/avoid tax. If however the discussions start to go in the wrong direction, not even a portable defibrillator will save it. It is therefore in members best interests to ensure no lines are crossed and ensure the debate is self managed. 

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On 5/19/2024 at 5:53 AM, Lacessit said:

Yes they do. Does that get reported to the tax authorities, though?

 

I doubt it. It must be a huge amount of data for anyone to sift through. Thousands of foreign passport details, the vast majority of which are not tax residents and no way to distinguish them. I think the details are probably just kept for a while in case of money laundering or passing of forged currency.  Then trashed.  However, the RD must have the right to sift through it, if it feels the urge.

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7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The following link describes the tax on digital assets that are imported.

 

https://sherrings.com/cryptocurrency-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

Thanks Mike, although I am still confused. 

 

Say I have had 10 BTC since 5 years ago and have been 'Hodling' for 5 years and decide to transfer now, or next year.  

1 - would this be classed under 'savings' pre 2024?

2-  if I 'cash out' via a friend in Phuket who delivers cash to my house, is this an illegal transaction only if I don't volunteer the information to the RD? 

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1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks Mike, although I am still confused. 

 

Say I have had 10 BTC since 5 years ago and have been 'Hodling' for 5 years and decide to transfer now, or next year.  

1 - would this be classed under 'savings' pre 2024?

2-  if I 'cash out' via a friend in Phuket who delivers cash to my house, is this an illegal transaction only if I don't volunteer the information to the RD? 

1 - I think so, I don't know how you might prove that though, if asked.

 

2 - it would only be avasion if you didn't report it.

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2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks Mike, although I am still confused. 

 

Say I have had 10 BTC since 5 years ago and have been 'Hodling' for 5 years and decide to transfer now, or next year.  

1 - would this be classed under 'savings' pre 2024?

2-  if I 'cash out' via a friend in Phuket who delivers cash to my house, is this an illegal transaction only if I don't volunteer the information to the RD? 

 

I am in a similar situation.

 

What I should have done is bed & breakfast them at the end of December last year (sold them on an authorised Thai exchange and bought them back) thereby setting a purchase price for the future so that if I sold them later on a Thai exchange my tax liability would only be on the profit from 31/12/023.

 

Thai exchanges do report details to the TRD and I would be extremely surprised if they don't look at large sales and cumulatively large sales. It's easy pickings.

 

You are probably better selling them overseas and making a decision on what to do with the FIAT currency you get for them afterwards.

 

Alternatively, sell them early in the tax year and spend less than 180 days in Thailand during that tax year.

 

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Another thing about all these fabled records everyone keeps talking about for taxes....

Any Expat living in Thailand is not from Thailand and has most likely moved many times in Thailand....

 

They very likely have financial records spread out all over the world if they even remember where they are at all.....Old checking accounts, old credit card,old emails, old banks, old online banking bla bla bla  I think you get the idea....

 

I can see many people seriously lacking the records to pay a tax that was thrust on them out of the blue...

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2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I am in a similar situation.

 

What I should have done is bed & breakfast them at the end of December last year (sold them on an authorised Thai exchange and bought them back) thereby setting a purchase price for the future so that if I sold them later on a Thai exchange my tax liability would only be on the profit from 31/12/023.

 

Thai exchanges do report details to the TRD and I would be extremely surprised if they don't look at large sales and cumulatively large sales. It's easy pickings.

 

You are probably better selling them overseas and making a decision on what to do with the FIAT currency you get for them afterwards.

 

Alternatively, sell them early in the tax year and spend less than 180 days in Thailand during that tax year.

 

 

I should add, I favour a dual strategy.

 

I will sell them overseas and remit FIAT to Thailand in the same year I will be non-resident for Thai purposes.

 

The reason being, transferring millions of baht here by bank transfer is likely to be looked at than selling millions in Crypto.  I would rather not even be looked at, even if I am non-resident that year.

 

Tax people can feel that once they start looking, they need to find things and just don't stop.

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3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I am in a similar situation.

 

What I should have done is bed & breakfast them at the end of December last year (sold them on an authorised Thai exchange and bought them back) thereby setting a purchase price for the future so that if I sold them later on a Thai exchange my tax liability would only be on the profit from 31/12/023.

 

Thai exchanges do report details to the TRD and I would be extremely surprised if they don't look at large sales and cumulatively large sales. It's easy pickings.

 

You are probably better selling them overseas and making a decision on what to do with the FIAT currency you get for them afterwards.

 

Alternatively, sell them early in the tax year and spend less than 180 days in Thailand during that tax year.

 

I believe Bitkub send information to the TRD. 

I have a Crypto.com debit card which means I can use in BigC or Tesco. I even bought gold with it. The gold shop asked for 3% commission but that equals the cashback I get. I pay  for my family's phone bills, university/school fees, etc. 

It's almost impossible to keep track of the actual BTC I spent and when I bought those exact ones. I bought BTC at 78,000 baht and also 1.5 million baht and in between. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Another thing about all these fabled records everyone keeps talking about for taxes....

Any Expat living in Thailand is not from Thailand and has most likely moved many times in Thailand....

 

They very likely have financial records spread out all over the world if they even remember where they are at all.....Old checking accounts, old credit card,old emails, old banks, old online banking bla bla bla  I think you get the idea....

 

I can see many people seriously lacking the records to pay a tax that was thrust on them out of the blue...

How difficult can it be to obtain a statement as at 1 January 2024?

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3 minutes ago, BangkokHank said:

Here's what I did/plan to do: At the end of last year, I transferred into Thailand enough money to last me for a few years. Over the next few years, I will transfer into Thailand the maximum amount that I can transfer without incurring any tax obligation.

 

In the meantime, I will just let the rest of my money accumulate offshore for a few years. Then, during the year that I want to transfer into Thailand enough money to live off of for the following few years, I'll make it a point to spend just over six months out of the country, say in a cheap country like Vietnam - where I have many friends and generally enjoy being.

 

So instead of having to spend six months out of the country every year to eliminate my tax obligations in Thailand, I can do it once every three or so years. Sound like a good plan?

 

 

It's a brilliant plan, it will work well, kudos for devising something other than moving countries.

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1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I believe Bitkub send information to the TRD. 

I have a Crypto.com debit card which means I can use in BigC or Tesco. I even bought gold with it. The gold shop asked for 3% commission but that equals the cashback I get. I pay  for my family's phone bills, university/school fees, etc. 

It's almost impossible to keep track of the actual BTC I spent and when I bought those exact ones. I bought BTC at 78,000 baht and also 1.5 million baht and in between. 

 

There is legislation that requires crypto exchanges to withhold tax on crypto gains at the rate of 15% but the last time I looked there was a notice on the Bitkub website saying that the RD has yet to make any moves to require enforcement of that by exchanges and that Bitkub has not yet been ordered to give the RD information about client accounts. No doubt this will all happen at some point but the the tax on gains, like many things here was not thought through and is difficult to implement. A reclaimable withholding tax on gross sales would have been a lot easier.

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8 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

It would stand to reason that they tighten this loophole and start taxing the Thai spouses on the gift amount as if it was earnings.  That policy is for 2025.  :smile:

There is no loophole, it's in law as 20 million for wife 10 million for another. When has anyone suggested it's a loophole that will be stopped?

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13 minutes ago, proton said:

There is no loophole, it's in law as 20 million for wife 10 million for another. When has anyone suggested it's a loophole that will be stopped?

I'm suggesting that if a high percentage of foreigners start using gifting as a tax avoidance measure, they will not make it illegal, but may then bring in a gift tax.  Why wouldn't they?  

 

That's all I'll say. 

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