Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[johng]

1 hour ago, candide said:

China is only interested in taking advantage of Russia.

What an achievement for Putin! Putting his country in the hands of its most dangerous neighbour. 😃

China tries to influence with money/investment  "Uncle Sam" tries with sanctions, bullets and bombs.

[RayC]

On 9/5/2024 at 8:46 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

With the bridges blown I doubt the Ukrainians can break out and are now confined to that area. They can be dealt with once the larger objective is secured.

 

"Once the larger objective is secured .. (the Ukrainians) ... can dealt with"? 

 

I thought your fundamental concern was  to prevent even more loss of life, and save more poor Ukrainian women and children from becoming widows and orphans?

 

Or maybe I do you an injustice? Perhaps by "dealt with" you imagine Russian soldiers sitting around the campfire with their conquered Ukrainian counterparts, calmly explaining that they have now free and have been liberated from the tyranny of the Nazis in the Ukrainian government? (To avoid any doubt, this is sarcasm).

[Bkk Brian]

Hopefully will stay this way:

 

Ukraine war latest: Russian advance near Pokrovsk stalled; 60,000 troops pulled to counter Kusrk incursion, Kyiv claims

Ukrainian soldiers have managed to halt the advance of Russian troops in the Pokrovsk sector in Donetsk Oblast, Commander-in-Chief Oleksandr Syrskyi said in an interview with CNN aired on Sept. 5.

The eastern front near Pokrovsk has been the scene of fierce fighting for several months and a focal point of Russia's offensive in Donetsk Oblast. The city is an important logistical hub for Ukrainian forces.

"Over the last six days, the enemy hasn’t advanced a single meter in the Pokrovsk direction. In other words, our strategy is working," Syrskyi said.

https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-latest-russian-advance-near-pokrovsk-stalled-60-000-troops-pulled-to-counter-kusrk-incursion-kyiv-claims/

[tgw]

54 minutes ago, RayC said:

"Once the larger objective is secured .. (the Ukrainians) ... can dealt with"? 

 

I thought your fundamental concern was  to prevent even more loss of life, and save more poor Ukrainian women and children from becoming widows and orphans?

 

Or maybe I do you an injustice? Perhaps by "dealt with" you imagine Russian soldiers sitting around the campfire with their conquered Ukrainian counterparts, calmly explaining that they have now free and have been liberated from the tyranny of the Nazis in the Ukrainian government? (To avoid any doubt, this is sarcasm).

 

you know he's just a Ruzzian shill.

[candide]

2 hours ago, johng said:

China tries to influence with money/investment  "Uncle Sam" tries with sanctions, bullets and bombs.

China sides with the country which is bombing another country. 

[Bkk Brian]

Putin's best buddy shoots down some Russian drones.....

 

Belarus downing Russian drones over its airspace confirmed for first time

The Belarusian Air Force downed two Russian attack drones on Sept. 5 near the Belarusian city of Homel, the monitoring group Belarusian Hajun claimed.

If confirmed, this would be the first confirmation of a successful interception of Russian drones by Belarusian forces over the country's airspace.

Previously, a Belarusian fighter jet attempted to down a Russian Shahed-type drone that flew into the country's airspace on Aug. 29 - although there was no confirmation that Belarus was successful in downing the drone.

https://kyivindependent.com/belarus-allegedly-downs-russian-2-drones-over-countrys-airspace-for-first-time-monitoring-group-reports/

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

 

you know he's just a Ruzzian shill.

100 percent

[johng]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If confirmed, this would be the first confirmation of a successful interception of Russian drones by Belarusian forces over the country's airspace.

They will probably be confirmed to be Ukrainian drones.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, johng said:

They will probably be confirmed to be Ukrainian drones.

Not according to the Belarus monitoring group. 

[johng]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Not according to the Belarus monitoring group. 

Takes a few days, weeks,months,years for the real story to surface  remember the missile into Poland that should have invoked article 5 ?   ooops.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, johng said:

Takes a few days, weeks,months,years for the real story to surface  remember the missile into Poland that should have invoked article 5 ?   ooops.

What's that got to do with stray Russian drones going off target and into Belarus airspace, of course they will shoot them down..jeez

 

You didn't even bother to read the link

[Danderman123]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I remember him well, including how he attempted to escape with a load of gold at the end. Will Zelensky follow his example?

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/04/14/archives/thieu-said-to-try-to-send-out-gold.html

 

Seems that the game is almost up for Ukraine, with failed diversions in Kursk, and Trump by no means looking as if he is a dead duck in the coming elections.

If Zelensky gets his wish for long range missiles and permission to use them, it's likely, IMO, that his departing gift to Ukraine is massive destruction in return. He is IMO lacking in air defense missiles given his desperation to get more and the ease with which Russian missiles are getting through.

It's surprising that, with the Tenet money gone, you're still here.

 

The upside of that is that you may be here when Russia loses the war.

[MicroB]

4 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

My point about Nguyễn Văn Thiệu which will rapidly be deleted is many foreign leaders have had years long friendships with the US and big puff pieces in the NYT and the like doubt as to how they are transforming their countries and advancing the cause of freedom in the world and how the US will support them to the end. And then they don't and the circus moves on leaving your country in ruins and yes he took 16 tonnes of gold with him when he took the ride.

“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”
― Henry Kissinger

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”
― Henry Kissinger

 

 

But your point is fallacious. Vietnam was a divided country, unless you are arguing that Russia has legitimate sovereignty over Ukraine. The Paris Peace Accords was not about America making peace with North Vietnam. It was about the political future of South Vietnam, and how the North and South would reconcile to create a single unitary state. South Vietnam had no future. As a result of the talks, the US would offer reconstruction aid to all of Vietnam.

 

You make claims what the US will do, while deliberately ignoring several examples. Western Europe; war ravaged, the US piled in aid, to friend and former foe alike. Similarly Japan.

 

Is the US particularly unreliable as an ally? No more than most other states, and a much better ally than many states.

 

The first quote attributed to Kissenger, which you misused to make a point, was Kissenger expressing a fear, in a call to William Buckley in 1968, about Nixon wanting to replace Thieu, and how would perceive that. Kissenger was passionate about America's allies.

 

As for the second quote, he never said that. He said

 

Quote

We have always made it clear that we have no permanent enemies and that we will judge other countries, including Communist countries, and specifically countries like Communist China, on the basis of their actions and not on the basis of their domestic ideology

 

You have mixed up Kissenger with Lord Palmerston

 

Quote

I say that it is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.

 

Kissenger paraphrased Palmerston when describing Stalin's relationship with the world.

 

The USSR was once a good friend of Afghanistan. Look how it left the country. Russia is a good friend to the Syrian government, look how its leaving the country.

 

Putin is supposedly a good friend to his own people. Check the Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@vasyainthehay. This is a country that considers itself a superpower. It had all the opportunity in the world to transform itself, but instead brought yachts and gold plated toilets.

 

Putin treats his enemies (Chechenya) better than the people most loyal to him (those far flung easter Republics where people live a life still largely untoughed by even the late 20th Century, and who form the core of his troops in Ukraine).

[beautifulthailand99]

Given the amount of missile attacks that have taken place at army mass gatherings it defies belief why at this stage in the war Ukraine would suffer such a significant hit. It points to military and command dysfunction.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/06/drones-russia-poltava-airstrikes

 

As of Friday morning, 55 people were reported dead in the attack, with more than 300 injured. It is not clear if any of the victims were civilians. The institute is a training facility that gives soldiers skills in electronics, cyber-warfare and battlefield communications; its graduates are “the intellectual elite of the Ukrainian armed forces”, according to a poster on an information stand outside. In the current conditions of all-out war, many soldiers are sent there for a month of training before going back to the front.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Given the amount of missile attacks that have taken place at army mass gatherings it defies belief why at this stage in the war Ukraine would suffer such a significant hit. It points to military and command dysfunction.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/06/drones-russia-poltava-airstrikes

 

As of Friday morning, 55 people were reported dead in the attack, with more than 300 injured. It is not clear if any of the victims were civilians. The institute is a training facility that gives soldiers skills in electronics, cyber-warfare and battlefield communications; its graduates are “the intellectual elite of the Ukrainian armed forces”, according to a poster on an information stand outside. In the current conditions of all-out war, many soldiers are sent there for a month of training before going back to the front.

Given the amount of missile attacks that have taken place at army mass gatherings

 

Really? How many? 

 

Nothing like blaming the victims eh.........

[beautifulthailand99]

20 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

 

But your point is fallacious. Vietnam was a divided country, unless you are arguing that Russia has legitimate sovereignty over Ukraine. The Paris Peace Accords was not about America making peace with North Vietnam. It was about the political future of South Vietnam, and how the North and South would reconcile to create a single unitary state. South Vietnam had no future. As a result of the talks, the US would offer reconstruction aid to all of Vietnam.

 

You make claims what the US will do, while deliberately ignoring several examples. Western Europe; war ravaged, the US piled in aid, to friend and former foe alike. Similarly Japan.

 

Is the US particularly unreliable as an ally? No more than most other states, and a much better ally than many states.

 

The first quote attributed to Kissenger, which you misused to make a point, was Kissenger expressing a fear, in a call to William Buckley in 1968, about Nixon wanting to replace Thieu, and how would perceive that. Kissenger was passionate about America's allies.

 

As for the second quote, he never said that. He said

 

 

You have mixed up Kissenger with Lord Palmerston

 

 

Kissenger paraphrased Palmerston when describing Stalin's relationship with the world.

 

The USSR was once a good friend of Afghanistan. Look how it left the country. Russia is a good friend to the Syrian government, look how its leaving the country.

 

Putin is supposedly a good friend to his own people. Check the Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@vasyainthehay. This is a country that considers itself a superpower. It had all the opportunity in the world to transform itself, but instead brought yachts and gold plated toilets.

 

Putin treats his enemies (Chechenya) better than the people most loyal to him (those far flung easter Republics where people live a life still largely untoughed by even the late 20th Century, and who form the core of his troops in Ukraine).

You make good points well argued and sourced and thanks for the schooling, but at the risk of going off topic any further, which I hinted at in my post I shall accept your arguements in this instance and move on.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Given the amount of missile attacks that have taken place at army mass gatherings

 

Really? How many? 

 

Nothing like blaming the victims eh.........

 

Two off the top of my head.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv_military_base_attack

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/ukraine-orders-investigation-after-russian-attack-on-brigade-ceremony

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Two off the top of my head.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv_military_base_attack

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/ukraine-orders-investigation-after-russian-attack-on-brigade-ceremony

 

 

So two, one over a year ago and the other 10 months ago = Given the amount of missile attacks that have taken place at army mass gatherings

 

With the missiles only in the air for 3 mins it was impossible for people to save themselves.

 

Nothing like blaming the victims eh.........

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So two, one over a year ago and the other 10 months ago = Given the amount of missile attacks that have taken place at army mass gatherings

 

With the missiles only in the air for 3 mins it was impossible for people to save themselves.

 

Nothing like blaming the victims eh.........

It is well known that Ukraine is riddled with Russian spies and citizens that are being turned with honeypots, money and the like. The point remains that a key army resource has been hit when common sense says you don't concentrate large numbers of important personel in a place that can be easily hit.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It is well known that Ukraine is riddled with Russian spies and citizens that are being turned with honeypots, money and the like. The point remains that a key army resource has been hit when common sense says you don't concentrate large numbers of important personel in a place that can be easily hit.

Deflection from your shameful victim blaming

[MicroB]

6 hours ago, johng said:

China tries to influence with money/investment  "Uncle Sam" tries with sanctions, bullets and bombs.

 

If you look at China's money/investment, its more akin to a loan shark, eg Sri Lanka, Tanzania.

 

Loan sharks often portray themselves as a salt of the earth pillar of the community, providing a necessary service, but its always with dark strongs attached,

[MicroB]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Two off the top of my head.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv_military_base_attack

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/ukraine-orders-investigation-after-russian-attack-on-brigade-ceremony

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/05/02/hundreds-of-russian-troops-gathered-out-in-the-open-they-didnt-know-the-ukrainians-had-aimed-four-atacms-rockets-at-them/

 

I think the major difference is the Ukraine will take an honest look at intelligence failures and OpSec. In Russia, there is blame and people tossed out of windows, whether or not it was their fault.

 

You have to remember, the whole of Ukraine is within range of Russian cruelty and barbarism.

[MicroB]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You make good points well argued and sourced and thanks for the schooling, but at the risk of going off topic any further, which I hinted at in my post I shall accept your arguements in this instance and move on.

 

Probably a good idea not to try and hijack a thread again with your own prejudices then.

[candide]

5 hours ago, candide said:

China sides with the country which is bombing another country. 

It's a thread about Ukraine, not Vietnam.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/05/02/hundreds-of-russian-troops-gathered-out-in-the-open-they-didnt-know-the-ukrainians-had-aimed-four-atacms-rockets-at-them/

 

I think the major difference is the Ukraine will take an honest look at intelligence failures and OpSec. In Russia, there is blame and people tossed out of windows, whether or not it was their fault.

 

You have to remember, the whole of Ukraine is within range of Russian cruelty and barbarism.

All the more reason then not to repeat the same mistakes of the Russians. Someone in command has made a major mistake here in allowing  Russia a tactical win in a critical area.

[beautifulthailand99]

It really is starting to look to the last Ukrainian and Putin won't fall anytime soon. That boat has long since sailed.

 

Putin thinks he can still win a war of attrition in Ukraine - Fighting will drag on while the prospects for diplomacy remain slim FT

 

https://archive.is/qS6MH#selection-1671.0-1675.67

 

Moreover, in the regions along the border that have witnessed Ukrainian retaliation, support for the Russian war effort is 10-15 per cent higher than the national average of roughly 60 per cent. These are the same regions where, before the war, thousands of people used to visit their Ukrainian relatives and friends across the border. The growth of pro-war sentiment isn’t necessarily resulting in more army recruits, but it makes the government’s job of persuading the Russian people to tolerate an open-ended fight with their neighbours easier.

[beautifulthailand99]

IMO the west has sold to Ukraine a serious miscalculation with regard to Putin; we the public, like Ukraine, seem to be under the impression Putin will stop if the war becomes too costly- I think this is wrong. It’s not, as some would argue, a war motivated by Putin’s ideology. It’s not, as others would argue, a war motivated by resources or money.The Kremlin has made a strategic decision to fight the war until it wins, at any cost. They view the war as a national security necessity. Putin is and has always been a national security hawk. He sees things through the eyes of a KGB agent- he is incredibly calculating - an evil genous as it were.

 

And, the west actually understands this. There is no miscalculation in western capitals; they know what Putin is doing and why he is doing it. And so we are successfully exploiting Russia’s national security concerns by using dripfed equipment to batter the Russian armed forces.

If the Russian army wins (which I suspect it will), it will be at far lesser strength than before the war. This weakens Russia and allows the US in particular to focus all of its efforts on the real threat to a free society which is of course the sleeping giant - China. My Kissinger point as it were explained in context.

 

Ukraine’s gamble against Russia risks becoming a blunder

 

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4862260-ukraine-advance-kursk-scrutiny/

 

George Beebe, director of grand strategy at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, said the Kursk operation was still in its early stages but “looks like it’s heading toward a failure.”

“The Russians have not diverted significant numbers of forces from the front lines in Ukraine. If anything, they’ve stepped on the accelerator pedal,” he said. “There seems to be a great deal of skepticism about what this incursion is going to accomplish, and I think growing concerns that it was a blunder.”

Russia appears to have accepted the reality of Ukrainian troops in Kursk for now. The Institute for the Study of War assessed this week that “Putin is attempting to preserve the Russian drive on Pokrovsk at the expense of delaying the clearing of Kursk.”

Edited September 6 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

It's a tragic stuck record but as I point out above  "we are successfully exploiting Russia’s national security concerns by using dripfeed equipment to batter the Russian armed forces."  and besides which the cupboards are bare.You cannot give what you don't have or wish to keep for yourself.

Speaking at a Nato weapons talk, the Ukrainian president said western allies had begun to show a shortage of weapons and cooperation

 

https://archive.is/Dxsy1#selection-2493.4-2497.139

 

Volodymyr Zelensky accused Britain of slowing down deliveries of long-range missiles during key Nato weapons talks.
The Ukrainian president said Britain and other allies were showing a “shortage of missiles and cooperation” with fresh shipments of Storm Shadows and other ammunition.
He pleaded with London and Washington to loosen restrictions on the weapons to strike deep inside Russia as he seeks to turn the tide of Moscow’s invasion in Kyiv’s favour.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It's a tragic stuck record but as I point out above  "we are successfully exploiting Russia’s national security concerns by using dripfeed equipment to batter the Russian armed forces."  and besides which the cupboards are bare.You cannot give what you don't have or wish to keep for yourself.

Speaking at a Nato weapons talk, the Ukrainian president said western allies had begun to show a shortage of weapons and cooperation

 

https://archive.is/Dxsy1#selection-2493.4-2497.139

 

Volodymyr Zelensky accused Britain of slowing down deliveries of long-range missiles during key Nato weapons talks.
The Ukrainian president said Britain and other allies were showing a “shortage of missiles and cooperation” with fresh shipments of Storm Shadows and other ammunition.
He pleaded with London and Washington to loosen restrictions on the weapons to strike deep inside Russia as he seeks to turn the tide of Moscow’s invasion in Kyiv’s favour.

This.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68273449.amp

 

Europe will need 10 years before it is fully ready to defend itself, the boss of Germany's biggest defence firm, Rheinmetall, told the BBC.

Armin Papperger said that ammunition stocks are currently "empty".

[Social Media]

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