Thailand Faces Economic Question: China and EV Cars

[WDSmart]

13 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

17 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Also, all the Chinese EVs I've looked at (mini-EVs) only come in left-hand drive. A car like that can be registered and driven in Thailand, but right-hand drive is what is normal here. 

Seriously? Every single EV I have seen or been in has been RHD. Not sure if you live in a parrellel universe?

@josephbloggs or anyone else: The EV I am interested in is a very small "mini-EV." An example is the Wuling Nano EV made in China. Here is a link to it: Made in China 2023 EV Car Automotive New Energy Electric Car Wuling Nano Electric Vehicle - China New Energy Vehicle and Electric Mini Car (made-in-china.com). I've checked on it and a few others like it, and they only come in LHD.

 

If you have found any very small mini-EVs with RHD from any country that I could buy in Thailand, please provide a link. I'd appreciate that a lot.

[JTXR]

I've just glanced quickly through the posts here and see only EV and ICE. 

In the intermediate term, until there's some realistic number of public charging stations installed and operational, hybrids will be the most attractive alternative for most Thais.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 5/25/2024 at 8:51 AM, Tropicalevo said:

All of the rich and powerful ethnic Chinese Thais that have been pushing the 'China' agenda (behind the scenes) do not care about Thailand.

They only care about wealth, power and China.

They are called Thainese - and they started coming here less than 100 years ago. They have taken a large slice of the wealth in a lot of areas - particularly industry and politics and military.  They are IMO a cancer and should be removed/excised. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

The issue/story is about the economic recession that Thailand is enetering after 10 years of the Junta and the decline in overseas development. Thailand is no longer the only 'port of call' for manufacturers and big industries looking to setup a base (hub?) in SEAsia. Malaysia and Indonesia have been kicking their butts for many years, and Vietnam is making strong moves forward. Meanwehile Thailand has been pushing Chinese led growth though tourism and letting them take over as the their main overseas investment source.  Ad of course this has all been supported by the Thainese that have infested the wealthy and influential parts of Thailand.  Bad moves all around  - Chinese Toursim is not as good for the country as TAT claim - they spend most of their money with 'approved' Thainese businesses in Thailand - it is what they do. Likewise, they will never be good for Thailand like USA, Japan and Sth Korea have been over the last 2-3 decades. Their reign as the 'manufacturing tiger' of SEAsia is coming to an end - and there is SFA they can do about it now that will not take a long time to have impact.  Technically the Thailand economy has been in decline since 2017 - it was coivered up by the Junta and then the Pandemic gave them more 'cover'. But now they are desperately applying bandaids to a severe wound that has been bleeding badly for a long time.  Demanding lower interest rates to spur private borrowing and spending will only make the macro situation worse in the long run, and force more foreign wealth to leave the country in the short term.  I have been very negative about the Thai economy for a long time - and I cannot see it improving anytime soon with these numpties in charge.       

[DTL2014]

it must be hard trying to figure out why 300 % tax on cars is negatively affecting the economy. I would like to introduce mini EV's to my villa guests ,for safety reasons.all the poor fisherman who have taken up taxi driving- keep mowing down the tourists when they are not selling drugs.But the thai govt double the price of EV's so instead of being a manageable $5k...it is now $12k.And this is to protect the economy not the tourist???? i think thailand has its priorities all wrong.we have sunshine - we have access to cheap solar panels ....but you subsidise diesel? 

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The issue/story is about the economic recession that Thailand is enetering after 10 years of the Junta and the decline in overseas development. Thailand is no longer the only 'port of call' for manufacturers and big industries looking to setup a base (hub?) in SEAsia. Malaysia and Indonesia have been kicking their butts for many years, and Vietnam is making strong moves forward. Meanwehile Thailand has been pushing Chinese led growth though tourism and letting them take over as the their main overseas investment source.  Ad of course this has all been supported by the Thainese that have infested the wealthy and influential parts of Thailand.  Bad moves all around  - Chinese Toursim is not as good for the country as TAT claim - they spend most of their money with 'approved' Thainese businesses in Thailand - it is what they do. Likewise, they will never be good for Thailand like USA, Japan and Sth Korea have been over the last 2-3 decades. Their reign as the 'manufacturing tiger' of SEAsia is coming to an end - and there is SFA they can do about it now that will not take a long time to have impact.  Technically the Thailand economy has been in decline since 2017 - it was coivered up by the Junta and then the Pandemic gave them more 'cover'. But now they are desperately applying bandaids to a severe wound that has been bleeding badly for a long time.  Demanding lower interest rates to spur private borrowing and spending will only make the macro situation worse in the long run, and force more foreign wealth to leave the country in the short term.  I have been very negative about the Thai economy for a long time - and I cannot see it improving anytime soon with these numpties in charge.       

Meh.. Malaysia and Indonesia get far more Chinese investment than Thailand and have large BRI projects.

 

IMO Thailand inability to move forward is due to lack of proper long term priorities like education. No country can have sustained high quality growth without large investments in education. Building an economy on low class tourists is not the way to go.

[steve187]

On 5/25/2024 at 7:50 AM, Robert Paulson said:

Everyone who is into ev acts like they are so concerned about the environment. Meanwhile their last car was a gas guzzling suv. Imo almost everyone should be driving super gas efficient cars. Of course commercial vehicles get a pass. I’ve said many times on this forum I get 70 miles per gallon on highway here in Thailand and I think those numbers could even be pumped up with all energy and design put on better fuel efficiency. But nobody cares everyone wants suvs and ev’s because it’s somehow cool. They’re not cool. Drive fuel efficient cars. Drive speeds conducive to fuel efficiency… which means driving much slower to the uninitiated (for not ev and gas). Everyone speeds though. It’s dangerous, it’s bad for the environment. Nobody actually cares about the environment it’s all virtue signaling trendy yuppie bs

is that proper gallons or us gallons

[vinny41]

18 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's not a case of Thailand makes ICE cars OR Thailand makes EV's.

 

Thailand has pushed hard to be a hub of auto manufacturing of ICE vehicles.  Nobody is suggesting those should close and Thailand instead switch to EV manufacturing.

 

Thailand has recognised that governments worldwide are moving away from ICE towards EV's and ultimately that ICE market will disappear. Thailand has said "We want some of that EV manufacturing, not only do we want some of that, we want ALL of that in Asia".  This is all happening alongside ICE manufacture.  Thailand has tied up the major Chinese EV brands to manufacture here.  It's too late for Vietnam, Cambodia et al to try and muscle in.

 

Do you not think that at some point, EV's will be taxed higher than they are currently?  I do.  And Thailand will have something to replace the disappearing ICE manufacturing.

 

 

 

The one thing about EV's is that they are most definitely not boring.  With 530 hp on tap and available instantaneously with 4WD and 0-100 acceleration of times under 4 seconds, they are tantalisingly exciting. 1.6M baht gets you a car that will show a BMW M5 or Benz C63s a clean pair of heels.  That 530 hp is there throughout the rev range, it's probably equivalent to a 650 hp petrol engine.

 

I do agree with you about the Tesla center screen.  Center screens are ok for infotainment but not for displaying speed and other important driver information. Indicators, wipers, lights etc should be in stalks as they are on every other mass produced car.

 

 

Absolutely spot on.  True all over the world, not just Thais.

There no chance of Thailand taking all of the EV Asia market as countries such as India, China, Indonesia ,Japan ,South Korea and Turkey are not going to hand over their automotive industry to Thailand of all of their automotive industries. A number of these countries already have FTA agreements with the Europe where they have to follow Rules of  origin and agree on  common rules on government subsidies

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Environment/Climate-Change/Japan-and-EU-to-unify-subsidy-rules-for-EVs-solar-panels

In this BOI  Opportunities and Support Measures for EV Activities it states No local content requirements

https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/20230706 EN BOI_.pdf

This year it was announced Thailand announces additional criteria for battery powered electric vehicles produced in Free Zones

Local content threshold: Goods produced must meet a minimum 40% local/ASEAN content threshold

https://globaltaxnews.ey.com/news/2024-0381-thailand-announces-additional-criteria-for-battery-powered-electric-vehicles-produced-in-free-zones

Yes Thailand will be a major player in  ev manufacturing within the ASEAN Member Countries but I think they will have to share the EV market with Indonesia since they have access to

The country is the world’s leading producer of nickel, a crucial ingredient in the production of lithium-ion batteries, which are the predominant choice for EV battery packs. Indonesia’s nickel reserves account for approximately 22-24 percent of the global total. Additionally, the country has access to cobalt, which extends the lifespan of EV batteries, and bauxite, used in aluminum production, a key element in EV manufacturing. This ready access to raw materials can potentially reduce production costs by a substantial margin

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/indonesia-market-prospects-for-electric-vehicles-sales-manufacturing-investments/

[TroubleandGrumpy]

44 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Meh.. Malaysia and Indonesia get far more Chinese investment than Thailand and have large BRI projects.

 

IMO Thailand inability to move forward is due to lack of proper long term priorities like education. No country can have sustained high quality growth without large investments in education. Building an economy on low class tourists is not the way to go.

I agree the last bit about low 'quality' tourists, but IMO the main reason Indonesia and Malaysia get more international business from other countries (including China) is because they make it far more attractive for the businesses and the workers they will bring into the country by offering serious and real tax incentives. Thailand still operates like in the 1990s and thinks that offering 'special' Visas for foreign workers with huge amounts of money is all they need to do. Besides Hong Kong, most Chinese investments are in Singapore and that aint because they 'like' them.  An educated workforce is a bonus with regards to Singapore, but with most businesses that have invested in Thailand in the past are manufacturing and industrial - and lots of woke Uni degree workers are not their requirement.  Additionally, Thailand's major exports are agriculture and for far too long a high Baht has impeded their growth and allowed countries like Vietnam to take some of their share of the pie - same things across most agricultural products. 

   

[TroubleandGrumpy]

26 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There no chance of Thailand taking all of the EV Asia market as countries such as India, China, Indonesia ,Japan ,South Korea and Turkey are not going to hand over their automotive industry to Thailand of all of their automotive industries. A number of these countries already have FTA agreements with the Europe where they have to follow Rules of  origin and agree on  common rules on government subsidies

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Environment/Climate-Change/Japan-and-EU-to-unify-subsidy-rules-for-EVs-solar-panels

In this BOI  Opportunities and Support Measures for EV Activities it states No local content requirements

https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/20230706 EN BOI_.pdf

This year it was announced Thailand announces additional criteria for battery powered electric vehicles produced in Free Zones

Local content threshold: Goods produced must meet a minimum 40% local/ASEAN content threshold

https://globaltaxnews.ey.com/news/2024-0381-thailand-announces-additional-criteria-for-battery-powered-electric-vehicles-produced-in-free-zones

Yes Thailand will be a major player in  ev manufacturing within the ASEAN Member Countries but I think they will have to share the EV market with Indonesia since they have access to

The country is the world’s leading producer of nickel, a crucial ingredient in the production of lithium-ion batteries, which are the predominant choice for EV battery packs. Indonesia’s nickel reserves account for approximately 22-24 percent of the global total. Additionally, the country has access to cobalt, which extends the lifespan of EV batteries, and bauxite, used in aluminum production, a key element in EV manufacturing. This ready access to raw materials can potentially reduce production costs by a substantial margin

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/indonesia-market-prospects-for-electric-vehicles-sales-manufacturing-investments/

I think Thailand's situation was best summed up when Tesla chose Malaysia as its SEAsian manufacturing hub - just ahead of Indonesia - Thailand was not in the race.  

[ozz1]

I really can't see Thais taking up ev they are so impatient i can't see them waiting for their cars to be charged at our local service station they have charging stations but very rarely have i seen them used

[TimBKK]

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/05/24/disturbing-questions-over-thailands-reeling-economy-are-china-and-ev-cars/

[ExpatOilWorker]

55 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

India, China, Indonesia ,Japan ,South Korea and Turkey are not going to hand over their automotive industry to Thailand

Add Morocco 🇲🇦 to that list.

https://apnews.com/article/morocco-automobile-industry-electric-vehicles-2981a049578c411b95b525752d243f93

[DavisH]

17 hours ago, gearbox said:

Looks logical to close down...who is buying Suzuki cars? Toyota is the king here.

 

https://www.focus2move.com/thailand-vehicles-market/

We bought a suzuki swift in 2013..in 11 years i just had to fix the air conditioner evaporator. Most services are 1000-2000 baht. Its MUCH cheaper to maintain that than our honda city or crv. Fuel economy is 19-20 km/l even after remapping and modifications. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

There no chance of Thailand taking all of the EV Asia market as countries such as India, China, Indonesia ,Japan ,South Korea and Turkey are not going to hand over their automotive industry to Thailand of all of their automotive industries. A number of these countries already have FTA agreements with the Europe where they have to follow Rules of  origin and agree on  common rules on government subsidies

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Environment/Climate-Change/Japan-and-EU-to-unify-subsidy-rules-for-EVs-solar-panels

In this BOI  Opportunities and Support Measures for EV Activities it states No local content requirements

https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/20230706 EN BOI_.pdf

This year it was announced Thailand announces additional criteria for battery powered electric vehicles produced in Free Zones

Local content threshold: Goods produced must meet a minimum 40% local/ASEAN content threshold

https://globaltaxnews.ey.com/news/2024-0381-thailand-announces-additional-criteria-for-battery-powered-electric-vehicles-produced-in-free-zones

Yes Thailand will be a major player in  ev manufacturing within the ASEAN Member Countries but I think they will have to share the EV market with Indonesia since they have access to

The country is the world’s leading producer of nickel, a crucial ingredient in the production of lithium-ion batteries, which are the predominant choice for EV battery packs. Indonesia’s nickel reserves account for approximately 22-24 percent of the global total. Additionally, the country has access to cobalt, which extends the lifespan of EV batteries, and bauxite, used in aluminum production, a key element in EV manufacturing. This ready access to raw materials can potentially reduce production costs by a substantial margin

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/indonesia-market-prospects-for-electric-vehicles-sales-manufacturing-investments/

My point stands that It is not an either or situation for ICE versus EV, Thailand can do both which was not what you appeared to be saying.

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Add Morocco 🇲🇦 to that list.

https://apnews.com/article/morocco-automobile-industry-electric-vehicles-2981a049578c411b95b525752d243f93

Thailand has done an excellent job of signing up Chinese EV makers, for both domestic consumption and export.

[vinny41]

On 5/25/2024 at 3:30 AM, vinny41 said:

From The Thai economics point of view ICE vehicles made in Thailand  provide more jobs and generated more revenue than an EV made in Thailand as the local content i.e made in Thailand for a Toyota Hilux is 90% compared to an EV made in Thailand where local content is 30% majority of parts for EV's are imported in from China

The domestic value added (domestic value add) that Thailand will receive from the production of 1 EV car is much lower than the production of ICE cars due to having to rely on importing key parts from abroad. Meanwhile, in the original product group that Thailand can produce, it is likely that prices will have to be reduced in order to compete with Chinese entrepreneurs. Because Chinese companies can import directly from China at a much lower cost than Thailand. As a result, even if an EV car factory is established in Thailand, the benefits that Thailand will receive from car production will be less than in the past.

https://brandinside.asia/car24-layoff-2024/

 

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

My point stands that It is not an either or situation for ICE versus EV, Thailand can do both which was not what you appeared to be saying.

My original post never stated that

what I posted was

From The Thai economics point of view ICE vehicles made in Thailand  provide more jobs and generated more revenue than an EV made in Thailand as the local content i.e made in Thailand for a Toyota Hilux is 90% compared to an EV made in Thailand where local content is 30% majority of parts for EV's are imported in from China

Currently 30% local content for EV vs 90% local content for ICE vehicles Its simply the domestic value added in the form of value and jobs is greater for ICE vehicles than of EV's

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

My original post never stated that

what I posted was

From The Thai economics point of view ICE vehicles made in Thailand  provide more jobs and generated more revenue than an EV made in Thailand as the local content i.e made in Thailand for a Toyota Hilux is 90% compared to an EV made in Thailand where local content is 30% majority of parts for EV's are imported in from China

Currently 30% local content for EV vs 90% local content for ICE vehicles Its simply the domestic value added in the form of value and jobs is greater for ICE vehicles than of EV's

I read that you implied producing EV‘s in Thailand was detrimental to the economy by comparing it poorly to production of ICE cars, whereas in fact it boosts the economy.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Thailand has done an excellent job of signing up Chinese EV makers, for both domestic consumption and export.

For the export market Indonesian seems to be ahead of the game regarding 40% local content

In August this year, Indonesia announced a two-year extension for automakers to meet eligibility requirements for electric vehicle incentives. With the newly introduced, more lenient investment regulations, automakers can pledge the production of a minimum of 40 percent EV components in Indonesia by 2026 to be eligible for incentives.

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/indonesia-market-prospects-for-electric-vehicles-sales-manufacturing-investments/

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Thailand has done an excellent job of signing up Chinese EV makers, for both domestic consumption and export.

Not sure what that has to do with the price of dates in Morocco, but I actually agree with ur previous post on Thailand EV + ICE strategy.  The "invasion" of Chinese EV manufacturers is just a natural next step of Thailand's PHEV strategy.

Compared to Malaysia,  Thailand has done more than an excellent job. Proton will have a hard time competing against BYD.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I read that you implied producing EV‘s in Thailand was detrimental to the economy by comparing it poorly to production of ICE cars, whereas in fact it boosts the economy.

Both the production of EV's and ICE vehicles are good for the economy but as it stands at the moment ICE vehicles with 90% local content are better than EV's with 30% local content

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Both the production of EV's and ICE vehicles are good for the economy but as it stands at the moment ICE vehicles with 90% local content are better than EV's with 30% local content

 

Hopefully that will change.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Not sure what that has to do with the price of dates in Morocco, but I actually agree with ur previous post on Thailand EV + ICE strategy.  The "invasion" of Chinese EV manufacturers is just a natural next step of Thailand's PHEV strategy.

Compared to Malaysia,  Thailand has done more than an excellent job. Proton will have a hard time competing against BYD.

It’s a well known fact that the fluctuations in Morrocan dates is linked to the uptake of EV’s worldwide. It’s the butterfly effect.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

It’s a well known fact that the fluctuations in Morrocan dates is linked to the uptake of EV’s worldwide. It’s the butterfly effect.

All I know is that dates increase flatulence'ion... 🤔 

[josephbloggs]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Both the production of EV's and ICE vehicles are good for the economy but as it stands at the moment ICE vehicles with 90% local content are better than EV's with 30% local content

 

But having ICEV factories with 90% local content AND EV factories with 30% local content is even better, no?  It's going back to the either /  or thing.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

But having ICEV factories with 90% local content AND EV factories with 30% local content is even better, no?  It's going back to the either /  or thing.

This article explains it very well

If the "40% local content" requirement cannot be met, the majority of BEVs produced in Thailand will remain in the domestic market. If there is an oversupply, the entire market will be affected if discount sales become rampant, similar to what happened in China.

If a Chinese car meets the 40% local content requirement and is certified as originating from Thailand, it will be exported within and outside the ASEAN region through the ASEAN FTA network. This will lead to direct competition between automobile companies in destination countries and Chinese cars originating in Thailand. In any case, the Asian automotive industry is undergoing a major transition.

https://www.thinkchina.sg/economy/made-thailand-chinese-evs-could-fill-auto-market

30% local content = limited export markets 40% local content = greater export markets

[retarius]

Thailand desperately needs a strategy. They need to analyse the data, forecast global demand in. various categories over the next few years and build a strategy and competences to take advantage of large and growing markets. Thailand cannot keep going on Mr Thaksin's successful growth strategies of old which are now 20 years out of date. 

[rvaviator]

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Both the production of EV's and ICE vehicles are good for the economy but as it stands at the moment ICE vehicles with 90% local content are better than EV's with 30% local content

 

And that is the problem 90% vs 30% ….. No duty import from China in free zone for export or no duty for domestic sales. Local Thai can not compete on price when compared with parts suppliers from China. All Thais are left with is turning wrenches ….

[Flummoxed]

Thais don't give a hoot about ICE vs EV. They're more cost driven than any populace I've ever encountered. Give them the right discount and a nice flashy advert they'll buy it, to hell with maintenance issues 5 years down the line, those things don't matter today and you get to pretend you care about the environment.

The only people that care about product quality or vehicular brands are wealthy Thais and foreigners.

 

 

 

Edited May 26 by Flummoxed

[ExpatOilWorker]

16 hours ago, vinny41 said:

30% local content = limited export markets 40% local content = greater export markets

Have you seen an update as to when the BYD factory will open in Thailand?

Earlier reports suggested Q2 this year, but with only June left that is highly unlikely to happen.

BYD's sales locally has dropped significantly so if they want to produce 150,000 cars annually they will have to achieve the 40% really fast to export their way out.