New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[Srikcir]

7 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

not be taxed on money you’ve already been taxed on

So long as your foreign country has a Double Tax Treaty with Thailand. Easy to Google - there are many countries with a DTT with Thailand.

But I think there may be a "glitch." (note, I am not a foreign tax expert - suggest contact with a Thai expert).

 

The US has such a treaty with Thailand that allows Americans to deduct against their US tax obligation, the Thai tax obligation but limited to the total US tax obligation. But:

1. That may require filing a Thai tax return as proof of your Thai tax obligation as an offset to US tax obligation.

2. Your Thai tax cannot offset your US tax obligation more than 100%. US taxation has many tax allowances that may not match Thai taxation. For example, if your US tax bracket is 25% but your Thai tax bracket is 35%,  difference in tax brackets between US taxable income and Thai taxable income may leave you with net Thai taxable income.

[jwest10]

53 minutes ago, Kaopad999 said:

I anticipate that immigration will coordinate with the tax department, so each time you submit or extend your visa, you will also be required to provide your tax information

Who knows but the lawyers stated 2 different deoartments but any country in the world would not sniff of getting more taxes from the general public Thais and Foreigners in Thailand but many woll not be over the threasholds but whether the Authorities will chase up is anyones guess.

 

[StayinThailand2much]

8 hours ago, Metapod said:

this is going to have large ramifications to thailand. 

 

Thank god, I left Thailand, only planning to go there for a couple weeks a year in the future.

[ryandb]

14 minutes ago, Geir Rasch said:

I know your kind exist, but I’m very happy none of you are in political power. If you exclude all the road only used by the owner, it is simply not true that over 60% of roads in Sweden are privately funded.

 

So you add an incorrect caveat to the true fact that they are owned privately.... they are maintained and used by PRAs not just individuals and if they receive any government subsidies (many don't) they must allow everyone the right to use them.

 

To touch on my belief on the welfare state, I'm from the UK, where there's very little community left and most of it is destroyed due to people on welfare, why be a good neighbour or member of the community when it's the government that bails you out in tough times rather than family or friends, why take care of your elderly mother when you can stick them in a government old peoples home instead.

 

Communities would be much better without welfare in my opinion, I believe most people are good and we do not need bloated government bureaucracy to help people.

 

I don't know your taxes, but do you think you could do more good with it for people who deserve the help than the government does?

Edited May 30 by ryandb

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

By March 2025, foreign retirees and other expats in Thailand will be required to file income tax returns for the 2024 tax year

What if you determine you have no Thai taxable income through either a Double Tax Treaty or LTR visa?

Must you still file a Thai tax return showing zero tax due?

[redwood1]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Thailand had 11.9 million tax forms files for Jan 2023 to April 2024, it was an increase of 3.34% over the previous tax year.

 

So based on revenue departments always increasing revenues and beating expectations, with the new change in wording in the revenue code, the 2024/2025 tax year is going to be an exceptionally  bumper crop of rich pickings from tax residents.

 

A tax form filed and paying taxes are 2 very different things......I bet only 70% of those  11.9 million tax returns payed any taxes and bet a whole lot less than that paid any substantial taxes....

 

Point being Very  few Thais Rich or Poor pay any income tax in Thailand....And thats not going to change...

[StayinThailand2much]

32 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

So how many news articles have you read about Thais paying a new tax?...Zero

 

Yea thats what I thought......Me also.....I have read zero too...

 

I've read some last year, but, yes, if you see politicians with $ signs in their eyes, it's because they hope to milk those 'dirty foreigners'...

[Darksidedude]

8 hours ago, Metapod said:

this is going to have large ramifications to thailand. 

pretty sure this is happening in a lot of other country's as well

[placnx]

5 hours ago, WingFat said:

It occurs to me that there are only two countries that tax worldwide income; the USA and Eritrea of east Africa.

 

Americans get a foreign tax credit on their US taxes for taxes paid in a foreign country, so no change for them. I don't know about how it will work out for Eritreans.

 

For the expats that hail from countries that do not tax their citizens if they are out of the country for a specified time (usually it's 180 days or more) in a calendar year, they have been enjoying tax-free living while expatting in the LOS, in many cases, for decades.

 

While I sympathize with those who will find this a challenge to pay Thai taxes, the saying of "there's no free lunch" comes to mind. And the argument that these people contribute to the Thai economy in other ways, well, so does everyone else.

 

Whatever the case, nobody should have to be double-taxed on the same income. I surely hope that if this issue arises, it gets ironed out such there is no double taxation.

Americans cannot get a tax credit in the US if they have no foreign income. For them, the alternative would be to get a credit in Thailand for taxes paid in the US. Then Thailand may get nothing.

 

Credit on US taxes is complicated because the Thai-US tax treaty does not contain a provision for what is called re-sourcing, unlike other US treaties negotiated in the same time frame. Strange, since over the years there were model treaties containing these rules. It seems like it is time for overhaul of the Thai-US treaty.

 

Under many US tax treaties this re-sourcing means that for income tax paid to the foreign country under its rules, the income reported on that foreign tax return can be considered foreign income for the purposes of calculating the US foreign tax credit, even though in reality the US taxpayer did not have any income in that country or any other foreign country.

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

A tax form filed and paying taxes are 2 very different things......I bet only 70% of those  11.9 million tax returns payed any taxes and bet a whole lot less than that paid any substantial taxes....

 

Point being Very  few Thais Rich or Poor pay any income tax in Thailand....And thats not going to change...

6.5 % paid tax

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, placnx said:

Americans cannot get a tax credit in the US if they have no foreign income. For them, the alternative would be to get a credit in Thailand for taxes paid in the US. Then Thailand may get nothing.

 

Credit on US taxes is complicated because the Thai-US tax treaty does not contain a provision for what is called re-sourcing, unlike other US treaties negotiated in the same time frame. Strange, since over the years there were model treaties containing these rules. It seems like it is time for overhaul of the Thai-US treaty.

 

Under many US tax treaties this re-sourcing means that for income tax paid to the foreign country under its rules, the income reported on that foreign tax return can be considered foreign income for the purposes of calculating the US foreign tax credit, even though in reality the US taxpayer did not have any income in that country or any other foreign country.

Interesting and useful, thank you 

[JimboB4]

This doesn’t apply to everyone. You all should clarify exactly what income and visa or residency status this applies to which overall will be very few. 

[JimboB4]

This doesn’t apply to everyone. You all should clarify exactly what income and visa or residency status this applies to which overall will be very few. 

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

There won't be any ramifications whatsoever. You've got to get down from your imaginary high horse and face reality. Refusing to pay taxes will ultimately lead to your loss. Dare I say, your home country isn't much different - inequalities exist more or less everywhere.

Everyone has an opinion deserving of consideration.

 

Punctuating your opinions with personal insults offsets any value they may hold.

[Polaky]

Come march 2025' there will be a mass exodus of expats, all returning on tourist visas.

[JimboB4]

This doesn’t apply to everyone. You all should clarify exactly what income and visa or residency status this applies to which overall will be very few. 

[JimboB4]

2 minutes ago, Polaky said:

Come march 2025' there will be a mass exodus of expats, all returning on tourist visas.

Yeah yeah heard that bs before in 2018 more over exaggerated information from here again. 

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, Polaky said:

Come march 2025' there will be a mass exodus of expats, all returning on tourist visas.

Doubtful, only the most gullible actually believe any of this. But, it surely does increase post count. Good job.

[JimboB4]

Don’t worry read. 
 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/your-questions-answered/#:~:text=US specific%3A Are Social Security,accounts potentially liable for tax%3F&text=In the US DTA%2C it,are not taxable in Thailand.

[JimboB4]

This is what I thought but so misleading articles on this site about so many different subjects (typically cannabis these days) in this case misleading information trying to imply that this applies to everyone and all income even though it actually does not under the law. 

 

Edited May 30 by JimboB4

[JimboB4]

This is what I thought but so misleading articles on this site about so many different subjects (typically cannabis these days) in this case misleading information trying to imply that this applies to everyone and all income even though it actually does not under the law. 
 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/your-questions-answered/#:~:text=US specific%3A Are Social Security,accounts potentially liable for tax%3F&text=In the US DTA%2C it,are not taxable in Thailand.

[donmuang37]

6 hours ago, nickmondo said:

this article is nothing but scaremongering

there is no new information here.

everyone knows that the truth is...............nobody knows 

disgraceful article, and very annoying.

Full agree with Nick!  Very poor journalism.  There are no details available yet.  Nobody knows the actual implications!

[JimboB4]

1 minute ago, donmuang37 said:

Full agree with Nick!  Very poor journalism.  There are no details available yet.  Nobody knows the actual implications!

All of their articles are misleading have been for years. Essentially regarding weed. 

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Folks I thought this tax was for EVERYONE in Thailand including Thais.....Not a word has been said about a new income tax for Thais....

 

It was also quite kind of them to come out with the LTR visa the  LTR excludes the richest expats from paying any tax..Which pores cold water on  saying the income tax is needed to raise money...When the most well-off expats are excluded from paying any tax.....

This half baked mess of a tax has more holes in it than Swiss cheese....Savings excluded,Gifts excluded, Treaties excluded, ATMs pretty much excluded etc etc etc

 

The whole thing is pretty much a hopeless mess.....

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but you are completely wrong about that. In the Thai Enquirer on the 18th Sep 2023 you can read:

 

According to legal experts, the policy appears to have three specific targets: residents trading in foreign stock markets through foreign brokerages, cryptocurrency traders, and Thais who have been exploiting a loophole that allowed them to bring foreign earnings into the country tax-free after keeping it in an offshore account for more than a calendar year.

 

There's no mention of expats and their pensions in this particular article.

 

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, Muhendis said:

This is what this post is all about.

If you can do your own tax for in your home country, you can also do the Thai tax form yourself.

It's in English.

The numbers to search for on google are PND 90 for personal tax and PND 91 for employment tax.

I have attached the forms below.

There may be others and/or updated versions so before you complete your form it would be a good idea to do a search.

PND90.pdf 154.06 kB · 4 downloads PND91.pdf 65.06 kB · 2 downloads

How would you deal with the tax treaties with foreign countries?

[baansgr]

Hold on, if you haven't paid tax on your incomom abroad in your own country, it's only fair you pay tax on it here. I don't know anybody that doesn't.pay income tax in their own country if it's required. I wonder how many uneducated have  contacted and paid a lawyer for advice, cos that is all this article is about.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

34 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Everyone has an opinion deserving of consideration.

 

Punctuating your opinions with personal insults offsets any value they may hold.

My comment wasn't intended to be insulting; instead, it was meant to convey a sense of ignorance and perhaps a touch of arrogance.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

IMO, eventually it may be, but definitely not in the short and improbable in the medium term. 

 

Your comment above regarding the speculation about Thai tax compliance potentially being linked at some point to the visa/extension process...

 

The above speculation also doesn't reflect the fact, as previously noted here, that not ALL resident expats will in fact have a legal obligation to file a Thai tax return...or even register for a Thai tax ID.

 

Because their foreign incomes sources may be exempt / non-assessible under the various tax rules (such as exempt by double taxation treaty provisions and/or being pre-Jan.1 savings accrued abroad, etc.)

 

Edited May 30 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

Am I understanding you correctly? Did you just say that Americans like me can deduct any taxes paid to Thailand from their US taxes? If I bring in a million baht from the US and pay Thai taxes on that, the Thai taxes will be deductible from my US taxes? If so, that effectively means I'll continue to pay no Thai taxes. Am I getting it right? That would be a relief. 

Well, you'll continue to pay Thai taxes -- on those remitted incomes the DTA says are primarily taxable by Thailand. But, yes, those Thai taxes, in the form of a tax credit, can be deducted from the US tax bill on the same income. Assuming US taxes on this income are higher than you paid in Thailand, your total tax bill, between the two countries, would be the same as if you didn't have to pay taxes to Thailand. But, now, Thailand gets to keep all the taxes -- and the US takes a hit equal to the credit. Fair is fair.

[jayboy]

8 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Expats here are in denial plain and simple. In Thailand you have to do a yearly extension

 

Not everybody has to do it.