5 year multiple entry DTV visa (Destination Thailand) from 2024-xx-xx

[save the frogs]

27 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

Why not? Remember why they are planning this visa. Exactly for that reason!

 

But I doubt it will be masses. The competition has increased while Thailand was sleeping. Also, not everybody can afford this lifestyle, the masses are definitely still bound to wageslaving it away in their passport country and just dreaming about it while watching youtubers.

 

 

 

 

 

I read about this visa on a blog that targets "digital nomads".

 

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/thailand-has-announced-a-new-easy-to-get-visa-for-digital-nomads/

 

Notice the language used in the article. 

 

the country decided to introduce the new “Destination Thailand Visa” (DTV) for those interested in a  “workcation.” 

 

The new visa targets digital nomads, remote workers, freelancers and others who want to live and work in Thailand for a period of up to 360 days. 

 

• The visa has a fee of 10,000 baht ($272) and allows you to stay for 180 days, which can be extended for a similar period after paying another 10,000 baht. 

 

I interpret up to 360 days as "up to 360 days total in 5 years". Otherwise, the only other way to interpret it is "up to 360 days per year".

But that's practically permanent residency, not a workcation. 

 

I interpret "can be extended for a similar period" means ONE extension in that 5 year period.

 

I could be wrong. Let's wait and see. 

 

 

 

Edited June 15 by save the frogs

[AreYouGerman]

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

I read about this visa on a blog that targets "digital nomads".

 

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/thailand-has-announced-a-new-easy-to-get-visa-for-digital-nomads/

 

Notice the language used in the article. 

 

the country decided to introduce the new “Destination Thailand Visa” (DTV) for those interested in a  “workcation.” 

 

The new visa targets digital nomads, remote workers, freelancers and others who want to live and work in Thailand for a period of up to 360 days. 

 

I interpret up to 360 days as "up to 360 days total in 5 years". Otherwise, the only other way to interpret it is "up to 360 days per year".

But that's practically permanent residency, not a workcation. 

 

 

 

 

You are interpreting a guy who was interpreting the official info very badly.

 

In Germany we call that 'Stille Post' ('Silent Mail'), the translation seems to be 'Chinese Whispers'. Very fun game, indeed!

 

 

Edited June 15 by AreYouGerman

[save the frogs]

38 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

You are interpreting a guy who was interpreting the official info very badly.

 

In Germany we call that 'Stille Post' ('Silent Mail'), the translation seems to be 'Chinese Whispers'. Very fun game, indeed!

 

 

 

Everyone interprets reality differently.

Try this psychology test.

What do you see in this photo?

 

[Upnotover]

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Everyone interprets reality differently.

Try this psychology test.

What do you see in this photo?

 

But.....there is no reality in this case.

[mokwit]

Just now, save the frogs said:

I dont think so because this would eliminate the retirement visa. 

 

My interpretation is you are only allowed ONE extension in FIVE years. 

You are only allowed 360 days TOTAL in FIVE years. (180 + 180)

So if you come Jan 1st, 2025, you stay 180 days and then extend another 180 days, you need to leave Thailand and you can not come back until 2030.

Not on this visa, anyway. 

 

Don't see why they would make it a 5 year valid visa if it was one entry and then one extension and that was it. We don't know if it is one extension per visa or one extension per entry (which would allow back to back with border runs).

 

As I said, I think the devil will be in the detail of the "registered company".

 

 

 

[mokwit]

Just now, dick turpin said:

 

 

Let you eat your words later

We will see, I have been dealing with Thai visas for 30 years and watched as they closed off all long stay options/strategies including Non Imm multiple entries. The fact is that the Thai authorities seem very uncomfortable with people, especially  young people with no obvious source of income staying here long term - yes we have the Govt recognising people legitimately earn money remotely now, but look how stringent the requirements are for that BOI visa (and all the others for that matter). I reiterate, the devil/disqualifier for many will be the "registered company" requirement plus maybe some others. My guess is that legitimate freelance remote workers may not qualify. Company employee or owner of company of a certain size.

 

If it is just 180 + 180 extension and that is it then I am sure all the budding cooks and Muay Thai fighters will be able too use it, but I am sure you will not be able to just put that in the application and get the visa without further proofs.

 

If you are so sure I will be eating my words then tell us what YOUR interpretation of this is. If you think Elephant Pants in Chaing Mai will be able to use this visa to hang out in Bob Marly themed bars in Chiang Mai for 5 years with extensions and border runs just by posting vids to youtube then I think you are wrong.

 

Again tell us what YOUR interpretation is and thus why I will "eat mu words". if you think I am wrong you must have an idea of what is "right".

 

All the much anticipated longer stay visas announced have turned out to be implemented with onerous terms.

Edited June 16 by mokwit

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

The fact is that the Thai authorities seem very uncomfortable with people, especially  young people with no obvious source of income staying here long term - yes we have the Govt recognising people legitimately earn money remotely now, but look how stringent the requirements are for that BOI visa (and all the others for that matter).

Spot on IMHO, and one could expect that there is a similar concern about a population of underfunded, underinsured geezers. This is very likely to become clearer once the Non-O reform is revealed leter this year.

[dick turpin]

Just now, mokwit said:

We will see, I have been dealing with Thai visas for 30 years and watched as they closed off all long stay options/strategies including Non Imm multiple entries. The fact is that the Thai authorities seem very uncomfortable with people, especially  young people with no obvious source of income staying here long term - yes we have the Govt recognising people legitimately earn money remotely now, but look how stringent the requirements are for that BOI visa (and all the others for that matter). I reiterate, the devil/disqualifier for many will be the "registered company" requirement plus maybe some others. My guess is that legitimate freelance remote workers may not qualify. Company employee or owner of company of a certain size.

 

If it is just 180 + 180 extension and that is it then I am sure all the budding cooks and Muay Thai fighters will be able too use it, but I am sure you will not be able to just put that in the application and get the visa without further proofs.

 

If you are so sure I will be eating my words then tell us what YOUR interpretation of this is. If you think Elephant Pants in Chaing Mai will be able to use this visa to hang out in Bob Marly themed bars in Chiang Mai for 5 years with extensions and border runs just by posting vids to youtube then I think you are wrong.

 

Again tell us what YOUR interpretation is and thus why I will "eat mu words". if you think I am wrong you must have an idea of what is "right".

 

All the much anticipated longer stay visas announced have turned out to be implemented with onerous terms.

 

Thanks for your extended response which seems to wonder in various directions.

Simply see what it says on the tin 180+180 days over five years.

[mokwit]

Just now, dick turpin said:

 

Thanks for your extended response which seems to wonder in various directions.

Simply see what it says on the tin 180+180 days over five years.

Not sure it said that definitively on the Government official release tin, hence the confusion, but that is how it has been interpreted by some media sources. Yes, my answer did wAnder a bit, but no wOnder, as that is because the visa as described is seemingly contradictory or not really realistic - 5 years to study Thai cuisine? I'll believe that when I see it. Likely there will be terms like prepaying your course and accomodation in advance - "just rock up" long stay visas have not been a thing for quite some time - check out the requirements for 6 month tourist visa from some Consuls.

 

In a way this replaces/allows alternative to the 6 month tourist visa and Ed visa with a new visa, but likely more terms and control.

 

Edited June 16 by mokwit

[mokwit]

Just now, Ben Zioner said:

Spot on IMHO, and one could expect that there is a similar concern about a population of underfunded, underinsured geezers. This is very likely to become clearer once the Non-O reform is revealed leter this year.

Yep. Collectively retirees and marrieds with 800k/400k requirements are not viewed as contributing enough by the authorities to warrant any kind of appreciation/consideration, so why would 500k nomads get anything special?

 

My take is new retirees will be offered the LTR visa only with its greater terms and control, rather than the current "too easy" extension, it also solves the new law tax issue for retirees - they become exempted. IMO the requirements will actually be REDUCED from the current $80k or /40k/250k - remember they said they were  going to make changes - probably more requirements - I think already has home country criminal record check but probably AMLO type proof of source of funds. No doubt there will be some curve ball requirement like a letter from your countries Ambassador stating that you are a stout fellow and the Embassy guarantees your good conduct in Thailand.

 

So where does that leave Non O extensions? IMO grandfathered because it would be too calamatous not to, but also with no shield from the new tax law interpretation/changes, thus incentivising them to switch to the LTR visa. Howls from old geezers being asked to pay tax are not going to meet with sympathy from the Western media so it will be de facto "Grow (into LTR) or go". Rich retirees move to LTR, unwanted poor retirees move to another country.

 

I might make the above a new thread so all see it.

Edited June 16 by mokwit

[mokwit]

Just now, dick turpin said:

180+180 days over five years.

I'm afraid you will have to clarify what you mean, do you mean someone has 5 years in which to do two entries or one entry followed by an extension, or are you saying over 5 years you can exit extend exit extend continuously until the 5 years is up, or perhaps only once per calendar year? You post is really not clear.

Edited June 16 by mokwit

[dick turpin]

Just now, mokwit said:

I'm afraid you will have to clarify what you mean, do you mean someone has 5 years in which to do two entries or one entry followed by an extension, or are you saying over 5 years you can exit extend exit extend continuously until the 5 years is up, or perhaps only once per calendar year? You post is really not clear.

 

360 days total over five years, cut it how you want with multi-entry visa.

Let's end the converation there.

Edited June 16 by dick turpin

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Yep. Collectively retirees and marrieds with 800k/400k requirements are not viewed as contributing enough by the authorities to warrant any kind of appreciation/consideration, so why would 500k nomads get anything special?

 

My take is new retirees will be offered the LTR visa only with its greater terms and control, rather than the current "too easy" extension, it also solves the new law tax issue for retirees - they become exempted. IMO the requirements will actually be REDUCED from the current $80k or /40k/250k - remember they said they were  going to make changes - probably more requirements - I think already has home country criminal record check but probably AMLO type proof of source of funds. No doubt there will be some curve ball requirement like a letter from your countries Ambassador stating that you are a stout fellow and the Embassy guarantees your good conduct in Thailand.

 

So where does that leave Non O extensions? IMO grandfathered because it would be too calamatous not to, but also with no shield from the new tax law interpretation/changes, thus incentivising them to switch to the LTR visa. Howls from old geezers being asked to pay tax are not going to meet with sympathy from the Western media so it will be de facto "Grow (into LTR) or go". Rich retirees move to LTR, unwanted poor retirees move to another country.

 

I might make the above a new thread so all see it.

 

Thai Immigration considers the Non-IMM OA Visa to be a "Long Term" Visa but considers the Non-IMM O Visa to be a "Short Term" visa, probably because (as a Visa & not on the Extension to the Visa) you get 1 year's permission to stay when you enter on the Non-IMM OA & only 90 days stay when you enter on the Non-IMM O so it's very possible (I'd say likely) that the announcement of "Changes to the Long Term Visa" are what have already been declared (i.e. the reduction in Health Insurance requirements). 

 

The introduction of Health Insurance requirements for Non-IMM O's (or even forcing people who would apply for one to get an LTR) would significantly impact the number of people who could retire to Thailand. 

 

[mokwit]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

 

Thai Immigration considers the Non-IMM OA Visa to be a "Long Term" Visa but considers the Non-IMM O Visa to be a "Short Term" visa, probably because (as a Visa & not on the Extension to the Visa) you get 1 year's permission to stay when you enter on the Non-IMM OA & only 90 days stay when you enter on the Non-IMM O so it's very possible (I'd say likely) that the announcement of "Changes to the Long Term Visa" are what have already been declared (i.e. the reduction in Health Insurance requirements). 

 

The introduction of Health Insurance requirements for Non-IMM O's (or even forcing people who would apply for one to get an LTR) would significantly impact the number of people who could retire to Thailand. 

 

Wasn't it specifically the BOI LTR "Wealthy Retiree" visas they said they were going to make changes to?

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, dick turpin said:

 

360 days total over five years, cut it how you want with multi-entry visa.

I don't believe it will be a total of 360 days over 5 years as this would be an average of 72 days per year & you'd be better off using Visa Exempts, especially given the plan of allowing 60 days visa exempt entry which there has been no evidence to suggest are not extendable OR limited to one per year.

 

Using the current 2 x land boarder entries per year rules you could get approx. 270 days... 60+30 day extension, land boarder run 1 another 60+30 day extension, land boarder run 2 another 60+30 day extension, even if they made land boarder entries only 30 days you'd still get your 1st 60+30 day extension entry & then 2 x 30+30 day extensions so 210 days.  

 

 

I think that if they make the Visa very easy to get, it will be 180 days in any one year with an option to do an extra 180 days at the end of the Visa but if they enforce the "Proof of Employment" requirement anything like they did with the "Smart Visas" you could see 180 days extendable by another 180 days every year for 5 years. 

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Wasn't it specifically the BOI LTR "Wealthy Retiree" visas they said they were going to make changes to?

I seem to recall they just said "Long Term Visa" in the same paragraph as changes to Non-Immigrant Visas & although the LTR is technically a Non-Immigrant Visa (It doesn't make you an Immigrant to Thailand), it isn't classified as one in the Thailand list of Non-Immigrant Visas. 

 

Hope I'm wrong as I would welcome a "Softening" of the rules for the "Wealthy Retiree", currently I have to wait until my pensions kick in (2026) to be able to apply for one. 

Edited June 16 by Mike Teavee

[Rob Browder]

22 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

Examples?

 

Do visitors use roads, street lights, refuse collection etc? Do they pay for those services?

Examples: people who I met through my wife, who lost their jobs, which were related to the tourism sector - from hotel/restaurant to real-estate.  Some entire streets of tourist areas were literally boarded-up after past "crackdowns" (this was long before covid).  All that money = businesses and jobs simply went to other destinations, so immigration could feel smug and satisfied.

As to paying for services - VAT tax, businesses-taxes where foreigners shop, income-taxes of employees of those businesses, VAT paid by those employees when they spend their salaries.  In short, income down-stream of anyone spending foreign-sourced funds into Thailand benefits Thais and Thailand.   .

 

At the same time, I do recognize that the "Tour" type of tourism is the least beneficial.  Their buses make the roads un-drive-able, and tear up the pavement.  The tourists in those groups shop only where the bus takes them, to businesses with the lowest employees-per-tourist ratio.  Ask Thais who work in the sector which tourists they prefer - who tips well, is polite, etc.  They will not name those tourists.

 

Adding a tourist fee ~300 baht per-entry has been suggested in the past, and would cover any additional expenses incurred - from the moto-wrecked tourist w/o health-ins, to road-repairs.  If tourist-caused expenses are really a problem, that would be the way to solve it - not rejecting repeat-customers.

[AreYouGerman]

9 hours ago, mokwit said:

Not sure it said that definitively on the Government official release tin, hence the confusion, but that is how it has been interpreted by some media sources. Yes, my answer did wAnder a bit, but no wOnder, as that is because the visa as described is seemingly contradictory or not really realistic - 5 years to study Thai cuisine? I'll believe that when I see it. Likely there will be terms like prepaying your course and accomodation in advance - "just rock up" long stay visas have not been a thing for quite some time - check out the requirements for 6 month tourist visa from some Consuls.

 

In a way this replaces/allows alternative to the 6 month tourist visa and Ed visa with a new visa, but likely more terms and control.

 

 

Indeed, but the DTV could be a 180 turn. Remember why they want that in the first place. They want to maximize tourists coming to Thailand and stay there and spend their income in Thailand and not all the other Asian and South American countries. It's a smart approach as tapping into that money pot of 20-40 yo's who can afford to live anywhere they want shouldn't be left to other countries.

[AreYouGerman]

9 hours ago, mokwit said:

unwanted poor retirees move to another country.

 

They can't. It's not easy to leave your home after 10, 20 years.

 

Side note: Only 4500 pensions have been transferred to Thailand for German retirees in 2022 (excluding retirees who are still registered in Germany or just German citizens living there without a pension). And 1300 to the Philippines. I thought these numbers are much, much higher, but avg. German pension is only $1500/m.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16 by AreYouGerman

[mokwit]

Just now, AreYouGerman said:

 

They can't. It's not easy to leave your home after 10, 20 years.

The Thai authorities see it as just a one year extension and think we can just "go back your country". As far as I can tell they just don't care if someone has been here 20 years and now can't meet some new requirement, as evidenced by Hapkarns 400k year 'round/transfer 65k non grandfathered new rule.

[mokwit]

Just now, AreYouGerman said:

 

Indeed, but the DTV could be a 180 turn. Remember why they want that in the first place. They want to maximize tourists coming to Thailand and stay there and spend their income in Thailand and not all the other Asian and South American countries. It's a smart approach as tapping into that money pot of 20-40 yo's who can afford to live anywhere they want shouldn't be left to other countries.

I think they want to maximise property developers condo sales. Direct buys from foreigners who will be prepared to buy a condo, and from Thais buying to ST let (IMO ST letting rules will be relaxed not tightened). I am sure the Russians didn't really get 3 month x2 because it gets cold in winter in Russia as stated.

[AreYouGerman]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

I think they want to maximise property developers condo sales. Direct buys from foreigners who will be prepared to buy a condo, and from Thais buying to ST let (IMO ST letting rules will be relaxed not tightened). I am sure the Russians didn't really get 3 month x2 because it gets cold in winter in Russia as stated.

 

Yes! Exactly, the money pot must be tapped in before they all spend their money in any other country. Including me. I am on the edge of re-considering staying in Thailand again if the DTV is the solution for 5 year stay.

[mokwit]

Just now, AreYouGerman said:

Yes! Exactly, the money pot must be tapped in before they all spend their money in any other country. Including me. I am on the edge of re-considering staying in Thailand again if the DTV is the solution for 5 year stay.

It won't be (a 5 year stay). See my posts above. people buy a condo to use it 6 months per year though. Thailand only acts for the benefit of Thailand/the elite. The fact that lots of people want to stay in Thailand only interests them if they tangibly benefit, they are not doing anybody any favours.

[AreYouGerman]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

It won't be (a 5 year stay). See my posts above.

 

Nah, just another interpretation. I am sticking with my as it seems to be most likely ☺️

 

It will be either 180 days per visit or per year + 180 days extension per visit or per year.

[cjinchiangrai]

Has it been published in the Gazette? If not it isn't real.

[JayClay]

On 6/15/2024 at 10:14 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Holders of the DTV may stay in Thailand for up to 180 days per visit and can extend the visa once per visit for a further 180 days. Which suggests you can use it to live/work in Thailand for almost 5.5 years by doing an extension every 180 days & a Border Bounce every 360 days... 

 

6 years

[bigt3116]

13 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Examples: people who I met through my wife, who lost their jobs, which were related to the tourism sector - from hotel/restaurant to real-estate.  Some entire streets of tourist areas were literally boarded-up after past "crackdowns" (this was long before covid). 

 

Sorry, still don't know what "crackdowns" you are on about. Maybe you could let me know a time period and what the crackdown was?

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, JayClay said:

 

6 years

5.5, you can't extend the final extension 🙂 

 

[Rob Browder]

11 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

Sorry, still don't know what "crackdowns" you are on about. Maybe you could let me know a time period and what the crackdown was?

Look at the changes to visa-exempt entries.  Remember the 15-day land-border-entry change?  Then, denying-entry at airports + Aranyaprathet .  First, "Show us 20K Cash," which was in the written rules - so folks prepared for this.  The response by Immigration was to switch to just lying about the reason for denial of entry - say one thing, stamp refused for something else. 

 

That 15-day policy was  substituted with the "2 land border crossings per year" rule - excepting the illegal-workers willing to work at low wages from neighboring countries, which make Thais poorer.   Westerners living on long-term visas in Laos and Cambodia could no longer make regular weekend-trips to Thailand to shop (spend money).

 

Concurrent with all this was the "ed-visa crackdowns," to stop folks staying/spending here with that method. 

 

What had been standard operating policy for decades began being labeled "abusing the system," when the rules were being followed to the letter - both as written, and established in those decades of practice.

 

Meanwhile, Laos has made new remote-worker and other easier visas available.  Cambodia has remained easy to live/stay.  Like Thailand, one cannot live in those countries w/o money for survival - so why not let them stay and spend?  Hopefully, the DTV will be a reversal of policy, but, I'm not holding my breath.

[mokwit]

Just now, Rob Browder said:

Look at the changes to visa-exempt entries.  Remember the 15-day land-border-entry change?  Then, denying-entry at airports + Aranyaprathet .  First, "Show us 20K Cash," which was in the written rules - so folks prepared for this.  The response by Immigration was to switch to just lying about the reason for denial of entry - say one thing, stamp refused for something else. 

 

That 15-day policy was  substituted with the "2 land border crossings per year" rule - excepting the illegal-workers willing to work at low wages from neighboring countries, which make Thais poorer.   Westerners living on long-term visas in Laos and Cambodia could no longer make regular weekend-trips to Thailand to shop (spend money).

 

Concurrent with all this was the "ed-visa crackdowns," to stop folks staying/spending here with that method. 

 

What had been standard operating policy for decades began being labeled "abusing the system," when the rules were being followed to the letter - both as written, and established in those decades of practice.

 

Meanwhile, Laos has made new remote-worker and other easier visas available.  Cambodia has remained easy to live/stay.  Like Thailand, one cannot live in those countries w/o money for survival - so why not let them stay and spend?  Hopefully, the DTV will be a reversal of policy, but, I'm not holding my breath.

Also stopping multi one year O/B from Hull/Birmingham that allowed one year stay with 4 border runs, before that.