Who said you bank/s aren't passing on your information to governments. Expats be advised !

[EVENKEEL]

When I call my bank from overseas and if they ask, I tell them I'm on vacation.

[KhunHeineken]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

He looks like someone nearby farted.

I'm sure he was real happy to be there. 

[KhunHeineken]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

When I call my bank from overseas and if they ask, I tell them I'm on vacation.

Why?  They don't know where you are calling from.  Why would they ask anyway? 

 

Now, an official form, either in paper, or inside your internet banking, with fine print saying it's an offense to make a false statement, that's a different thing. 

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Why?  They don't know where you are calling from.  Why would they ask anyway? 

 

Now, an official form, either in paper, or inside your internet banking, with fine print saying it's an offense to make a false statement, that's a different thing. 

I use my Thai number for overseas calls. I'm not hip on the other alternatives. My US number phone is pricey.

[DrPhibes]

18 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I found this.

 

DrPhibes and DrPhelps is similar.  Are we among youtube greatness on this thread? 

 

 

Please do not think that tax rate is the same as tax amount paid.  His tax rate is lower but his tax amount paid is much higher due to his higher income.  Amazing how the average man these days has no clue on even the most basic math concepts I learned in 3rd grade.  I have been doing US income tax preparation as a business for the last 30 years after leaving a successful aerospace engineering position due to wanting more time to do other things.  Time is the ultimate coinage.

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:50 AM, EVENKEEL said:

I use my Thai number for overseas calls. I'm not hip on the other alternatives. My US number phone is pricey.

Check out a VOIP provider.  Don't have to be "hip" to use it on a PC or app on phone.  Cheap calls to anywhere in the world, and you can also get call ID and local numbers for your home country. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/15/2024 at 6:23 AM, DrPhibes said:

Please do not think that tax rate is the same as tax amount paid.

I never did. 

 

On 6/15/2024 at 6:23 AM, DrPhibes said:

His tax rate is lower but his tax amount paid is much higher due to his higher income. 

Sounds like a great system. 

 

How about mentioning how much he lobbies government.   You know, that great word, "lobbying" which is a legal word to describe "donations" because in the west we can't call them "bribes." 

 

No way would the rich, like him, ever "lobby" government to further their own interests.

 

On 6/15/2024 at 6:23 AM, DrPhibes said:

Amazing how the average man these days has no clue on even the most basic math concepts I learned in 3rd grade.

Example please? 

 

I'm  sure the "average man" would appreciate a less from an "above average man." 

 

On 6/15/2024 at 6:23 AM, DrPhibes said:

I have been doing US income tax preparation as a business for the last 30 years after leaving a successful aerospace engineering position due to wanting more time to do other things. 

Should I be impressed?

 

On 6/15/2024 at 6:23 AM, DrPhibes said:

Time is the ultimate coinage.

Well, in a capitalist society, some see "money" as the ultimate. 

[4MyEgo]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:15 PM, Sheryl said:

 

This is incorrect.You ARE a tax resident in Thailand if you are here 180 days a year or more.

 

There is a difference between being tax resident, having assessable income, and owing taxes.

 

From what you describe of your situation, you are a tax resident in Thailand with no assessable income. Thus owing no tax/not required to file a tax return in Thailand.

 

Strongly suggest you change your answer re tax residency as it may lead your bank to conclude you are tax resident in your home country which could have tax implications there.

 

 

Update:

 

I did exactly what you suggested Sheryl, i.e. changed my answer to tax residency, I said I lived here for over 180 days a year, however as I do not derive an income I consider myself as a resident of Thailand, if you wish to put me down as a tax resident by definition, that is up to you, however as I do not derive an income and never will, I consider myself a resident of Thailand.

 

Their reply which took a while is below, hopefully they stop pestering me now.

 

 

Thank you, the XXX Tax Team has successfully verified your details.

 

Please ignore any further correspondence regarding your foreign tax residency details within the next 2 weeks.

 

You don’t need to do anything further at this stage

We’ll continue our review to make sure the information we hold is up to date. We’ll be in touch if we require any further information. If any of your details change in the future, please let us know so we can update our records.

 

 

Edited June 29 by 4MyEgo

[Chivas]

On 6/5/2024 at 4:39 AM, Doctor Tom said:

Absolutely right.  There is a great deal of false and misleading information floating around social media.  Relax expats, especially the ones on retirement extensions. 

 

When the Thais tie in the TIN status to Retirement extensions (and they obviously will) the shight is going to hit the fan for many....

[ukrules]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:11 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I volunteered to stay UK Tax Resident, before all this mullarkey with Thai taxation cropped up.

 

At the time I told them I was still tax resident because I needed to research what the implications of electing to be non Tax Resident would be, that would be a change rather than continuing my status and I wondered what my banks motive was in asking me.

 

My view now is that nothing has changed, we are not the ones the Thai tax authorities are after and the only change I will be undertaking is making gifts from the UK to my daughters to fund their university education rather than bringing it here first.  And I will not be selling any crypto on a Thai exchange as that is now very closely monitored.

 

In 2013 they introduced something called the 'Statutory Residence Test' in the UK so if you're not there for at least a certain number of days every year for 3 years in a row then you are automatically a non resident for tax - there is no choice involved.

Do you have enough days per year over 3 years - if you don't then you're out of the system automatically - it's been this way for more than 10 years now?

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

In 2013 they introduced something called the 'Statutory Residence Test' in the UK so if you're not there for at least a certain number of days every year for 3 years in a row then you are automatically a non resident for tax - there is no choice involved.

Do you have enough days per year over 3 years - if you don't then you're out of the system automatically - it's been this way for more than 10 years now?

 

I think what you mean is you have to notify them if your status changes as per the above.

[Mike Teavee]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think what you mean is you have to notify them if your status changes as per the above.

It's "Automatic" as far as HMRC is concerned https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/01/statutory-residence-test-flowchart.pdf

 

but your Bank cannot know that you're Non-Tax Resident as they don't know where you're spending your time so they rely on you to tell them or will sometimes look at the activity on your account & ask questions. 

 

Couple of weeks back Barclays flagged a transfer to Wise & tried to contact me on my UK number & when they couldn't contact me on it, they froze my mobile banking.  Called the contact centre from my Thai mobile explained that I was travelling around Asia for a few months so didn't have my UK SIM in my phone & they unfroze things. 

 

[ukrules]

46 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think what you mean is you have to notify them if your status changes as per the above.

No, the opposite, they will know and you automatically become a non resident - it's not a choice - they decide when, there is no paperwork to file - if you don't meet the test then you're out.

 

You bank doesn't know <deleted> unless you tell them.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

No, the opposite, they will know and you automatically become a non resident - it's not a choice - they decide when, there is no paperwork to file - if you don't meet the test then you're out.

 

You bank doesn't know <deleted> unless you tell them.

 

They are still deducting tax on all my pensions, including state pension.  I don't think they know about me.

[Mike Teavee]

27 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

They are still deducting tax on all my pensions, including state pension.  I don't think they know about me.

Even if you're Non-Tax Resident (Which I am) They will still deduct tax on any income you earn in the UK (Which they do to me).  

 

You can avoid Withheld tax by registering as Non-Tax Resident with your Bank & HMRC (E.g. NRL - Non-Resident Landlord for rental income) BUT your pensions will always be taxed in the UK unless you apply for an "NT" Tax Code which are very difficult to get when your country of residency is Thailand. 

 

Edit: I'm guessing you don't complete a UK Self Assessment Tax Return each year as one of the questions on there is something like "Number of Days spent in the UK" & if this is less than 16 you are automatically a Non-Tax Resident. 

 

Edited September 4 by Mike Teavee

[sandyf]

On 6/9/2024 at 6:12 AM, John49 said:

If we are talking about exchange of such information between say Singapore and Australia, then all information available can, or will be exchanged in the near future.

You are wrong to say "all".

I have seen it somewhere but not going looking again. The sharing of personal financial information is confined to unearned income. There is no international sharing of information on earned income.

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Even if you're Non-Tax Resident (Which I am) They will still deduct tax on any income you earn in the UK (Which they do to me).  

 

You can avoid Withheld tax by registering as Non-Tax Resident with your Bank & HMRC (E.g. NRL - Non-Resident Landlord for rental income) BUT your pensions will always be taxed in the UK unless you apply for an "NT" Tax Code which are very difficult to get when your country of residency is Thailand. 

 

Edit: I'm guessing you don't complete a UK Self Assessment Tax Return each year as one of the questions on there is something like "Number of Days spent in the UK" & if this is less than 16 you are automatically a Non-Tax Resident. 

 

 

You're right, I don't complete any tax returns since I moved here.  I did get fined (200 pounds I think) some years ago for not filing a tax return for the first year I was here.  My accountant advised me to pay the fine and not to file a return.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/29/2024 at 9:38 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

 

Update:

 

I did exactly what you suggested Sheryl, i.e. changed my answer to tax residency, I said I lived here for over 180 days a year, however as I do not derive an income I consider myself as a resident of Thailand, if you wish to put me down as a tax resident by definition, that is up to you, however as I do not derive an income and never will, I consider myself a resident of Thailand.

 

Their reply which took a while is below, hopefully they stop pestering me now.

 

 

Thank you, the XXX Tax Team has successfully verified your details.

 

Please ignore any further correspondence regarding your foreign tax residency details within the next 2 weeks.

 

You don’t need to do anything further at this stage

We’ll continue our review to make sure the information we hold is up to date. We’ll be in touch if we require any further information. If any of your details change in the future, please let us know so we can update our records.

 

 

This is so strange, because you posted in the Australia Forum that you will not need to pay any tax due to the Australia / Thailand DTA.

 

I remember you posting that we should all forget about Article 19 in the DTA because the relevant article is Article 18.   

 

What's changed? 

[KhunHeineken]

14 hours ago, sandyf said:

You are wrong to say "all".

I have seen it somewhere but not going looking again. The sharing of personal financial information is confined to unearned income. There is no international sharing of information on earned income.

Somewhat interesting for Australian's, don't you think?  I doubt it's much different for many other other western countries. 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/commitments-and-reporting/information-and-privacy/your-privacy/when-we-collect-information-from-others

 

 

Treaty partners

Just as we disclose information to treaty partners overseas, authorities in other countries share information with us under international tax agreements.

 

 

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Somewhat interesting for Australian's, don't you think?  I doubt it's much different for many other other western countries. 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/commitments-and-reporting/information-and-privacy/your-privacy/when-we-collect-information-from-others

 

 

Treaty partners

Just as we disclose information to treaty partners overseas, authorities in other countries share information with us under international tax agreements.

 

 

Indeed. There is a certain amount of international sharing, as opposed to domestic, but I do do not see anything in what you have posted that specifically states the international sharing of earned income.

The overseas section of your link only lists your obligations.

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

This is so strange, because you posted in the Australia Forum that you will not need to pay any tax due to the Australia / Thailand DTA.

 

I remember you posting that we should all forget about Article 19 in the DTA because the relevant article is Article 18.   

 

What's changed? 

 

You never seem to go away, like a stalker.

 

Nothing has changed, and what you are referring to, as you well know, was the Old Age Pension in the Australian Forum, whereas I stated that under Article 18 if you are on the Old Age Pension, you will NOT pay tax in Thailand.

 

Do wake me up when you have some evidence that contradicts what I have said, e.g. the fact that news is circulating that money remitted into Thailand after 1 January 2025 is deemed taxable, but will they tax the Old Age Pensioners, I doubt it very much, same as the Oz government doesn't tax Old Age Pensioners, if that is their only income.

 

Please don't waste my time, as I recall, you NEVER have been able to produce one piece of evidence to anything I provided, you just want to win at all costs, even making a fool of yourself over and over and over.

 

So unless you do actual come up with some actual evidence, which I doubt because you are not capable in my opinion based on your past actions, I won't be responding.

 

Edit: Just because some amendments have been made, doesn't mean that they will enforce it, like the DTA which you know has been around since 1989, yet nothing has been enforced, welcome to the land of paper shufflers. 

Edited September 5 by 4MyEgo

[spidermike007]

Your bank sounds absolutely horrific and they sound like a righteous pain in the butt, if I were in your position I would change banks immediately. 

[Presnock]

On 6/5/2024 at 1:31 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Hey Sheryl, so if I remit, for example a million baht per annum from my overseas account, which is from savings, so to speak, I don't have to pay tax as this is not income, is that what you are saying ?

 

 

Ok, so tell them that I don't have a Thai Tax ID and have no remittances into Thailand that are assessable under Thai tax law and that I do not owe any taxes to the government.

 

As for the threshold, not sure what that is, although I did read something like is it 60k for me, 60k for the Mrs and 60k per child (not adopted), plus 50k for goods and services, so the threshold could be 410k if you have 4 kids, i.e. if you have an income ?

 

 

They know I am a non resident in my tax country on the basis of living abroad, hence them breaking my b...s, so to speak.

 

 

My bad, I read the bottom of the email again, they report it to the Taxation Department in my country and they forward it to the Thai Taxation Department.

 

Might be getting my nickers in a knot over nothing, but I did read an article here on Asean Now not long ago about the TIN for May this year.

You cn go to the Thai Revenue Dept about the TIN - it hasn't changed so if you do not have any assessable income you don't HAVE to OBTAIN a  TIN by law YET!

[ujayujay]

On 6/5/2024 at 3:01 PM, MalcolmB said:

Who said you bank/s aren't passing on your information to governments.
 

 

 

 

I dunno. Who said it?

I dont think, banking secrecy exist in Thailand, I am not naiv enough

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

I dont think, banking secrecy exist in Thailand, I am not naiv enough

 

I can tell you banking secrecy does not exist in Thailand, and how I know.

 

When I applied for the Elite visa through an agent, he came back and asked me why there were so many withdrawals in Australia in one month on a bank account I hadn't disclosed.

 

I only gave details of one bank account, not the one they questioned because I don't use it day to day and only use it for a specific purpose (which I'm not going into here).

[koolkarl]

I have written about this before and received comments like I was insane.  Thailand has signed CRS with 144 countries to date. If they have your address here, they would have reported by May 31,2024, your total assets and annual income outside Thailand and will do so automatically every year, pensions, etc., everything. If you live here more than 180 days a year you are done like Xmas turkey.  Taxing incoming remittances is a stepping stone.  It doesn't matter how many visas you have as long as you live here more than 180 days (unless your visa specifically excludes you filing).  All thanks to Obama, that commy, who started this nightmare.

[topt]

2 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Thailand has signed CRS with 144 countries to date.

Where did you get 144 countries from please as at best I can only find 126 signed up to data sharing? (not that it makes much difference......)

https://auresnotes.com/non-crs-countries/

https://web-archive.oecd.org/tax/transparency/documents/aeoi-commitments.pdf

 

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, sandyf said:

Indeed. There is a certain amount of international sharing, as opposed to domestic, but I do do not see anything in what you have posted that specifically states the international sharing of earned income.

The overseas section of your link only lists your obligations.

You can not see what you chose to not see, however, it's pretty obvious what the information exchange is, and will be, going forward, between countries. 

 

Good luck to you with ignoring it. 

 

Do be sure to let us all know how it works out for you. 

[KhunHeineken]

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

You never seem to go away, like a stalker.

It's not that I never go away, it's just that the information that you post is, well, in your own words, your "interpretation" which is very misleading to readers.  

 

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Nothing has changed, and what you are referring to, as you well know, was the Old Age Pension in the Australian Forum, whereas I stated that under Article 18 if you are on the Old Age Pension, you will NOT pay tax in Thailand.

Can you tell readers why you come to this conclusion? 

 

 

If you watch between 16 minutes and 20 minutes, you will see the aged pension IS NOT exempt under the Australia / Thailand DTA. 

 

Are they wrong?  If they are wrong, can you post why they are wrong, and not your "interpretation" but some links, quotes, youtube, anything, other than your "interpretation?" 

 

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Do wake me up when you have some evidence that contradicts what I have said, e.g. the fact that news is circulating that money remitted into Thailand after 1 January 2025 is deemed taxable, but will they tax the Old Age Pensioners, I doubt it very much, same as the Oz government doesn't tax Old Age Pensioners, if that is their only income.

See above youtube video. 

 

Are you awake now? 

 

I note you did not comment on this video in the Australia Forum.  Perhaps something to do with what you said was "tail between the legs." 

 

Now, you have changed forums and spreading your misinformation.  

 

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Please don't waste my time, as I recall, you NEVER have been able to produce one piece of evidence to anything I provided, you just want to win at all costs, even making a fool of yourself over and over and over.

I have produce many quotes, links, youtube videos etc etc.  All you have posted is your "interpretation."  

 

I seek the facts and the truth, not to win.  There are no winners when you have to pay tax.  Only the government/s win.

 

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

So unless you do actual come up with some actual evidence, which I doubt because you are not capable in my opinion based on your past actions, I won't be responding.

Please comment on the posted youtube video.

 

Are they wrong????

 

I have posted the educational and experience credentials of the people involved.  Can you post yours?  Or, should members just believe your "interpretation?"  

 

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Edit: Just because some amendments have been made, doesn't mean that they will enforce it, like the DTA which you know has been around since 1989, yet nothing has been enforced, welcome to the land of paper shufflers. 

  Interesting.

 

What happens if they do enforce it? 

 

Is it your "interpretation" that they will not enforce it? 

 

Go on the record with some links, quotes, youtube, anything, because your "interpretation" is worth as much on this forum as they are on the Australian Forum without them, and that is ZERO. 

 

 

[retarius]

I have bank accounts in 3 countries including Thailand. The addresses on the bank accounts in the two other countries are local and I pay the pittance in tax on the interest earned to the respective governments.  I've never had any query from my banks abroad although I have never kept it a secret that I live abroad.

This year, I will not be resident in Thailand for tax purposes and will choose one of the other countries, where I have the most taxable income as my tax home. This is a pre-emptive move on my part as I do not want to file a Thai tax return for 2024 year and I will spend less than 179 or fewer days here. Also the proposal in 2025 for Thailand to tax world wide income of tax residents is anathema to me. 

Filing your first return drags you into the tax system and allows the tax department to question you about anything they can dream up....no thanks.