Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[Presnock]

19 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  It isn't a "report" it's a Bangkok Post "Explainer" article that basically breaks down the proposal in simple terms.  

 

  The only thing "new" that I saw was that the CRS information that everyone around here seems so certain is the "game changer" only provides - according to the article - investment related information.  It does not encompass all financial related matters pertaining to individuals.  For example, it apparently doesn't provide information on individual wages or salary.  

There is included to comments to the BP on this ariticle so the comments are just like those here, so the government is well aware of the feelings of the expats and the possible exit of many.

[Ben Zioner]

50 minutes ago, Presnock said:

There is included to comments to the BP on this ariticle so the comments are just like those here, so the government is well aware of the feelings of the expats and the possible exit of many.

There are two interesting recent precedents of countries tightening the IT rules for foreign retirees: Portugal and Malaysia, both resorted to a mix of delay and gradual implementation as they understood that Brutality wasn't the answer. But TIT the LOB.

[Vulture82]

I am leaving today, infact I booked 1 month ago just for this mess... been a long lurker of this thread, clarity zero. Forget about buying a condo/house or even leasing land as most countries where they tax you based on residency, use exactly that as the proof your "interests" are in fact, in that country (hence they consider you resident there). Also... even if they now backpedal, the damage is done, do you trust Thai govt to never change idea about residency t&c... I think this is a country to come and be here for the smallest amount of time before they start to pluck you out of your money... This country is for tourists, not residents.

Prepare for a huge reprice of land/real estates as soon as, in 2025, people will get notified to pay 2024 taxes, around March... gg and gl.

Edited Thursday at 11:30 AM by Vulture82

[Tonyfarang]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

well for those who have read this morning's report on this, it seems to me to indicate that are are proposing an amendment to the existing tax laws.  That would seem to be easier than writing up a separate bill requiring probably different and more difficult wording for the govt to get it passed.   But, it sure seems like they are going to go the tax ALL income starting next year unless there is a different govt that doesn't want many expats to leave.  But the bottom line for all of the expats is - WHO HAS THAT CRYSTAL BALL TELLING US WHAT WILL BE NEXT AND WHEN?  Just have to wait for the next report.  Reading the comments from the two articles, expats have expressed some really harsh words and seem like many will be leaving unless that is just faked bravery in the face of the TRD.  Let's hope cooler heads prevail and they think twice before acting on the proposed amendment.

At present, the most pressing issue is yet another headache. I'm personally very weary from the constant stream of daily surprises and challenges. As a result, I am already selling my condos and prepare for an immediate move once this announcement is made official.

No, this change can't be implemented right now, as many of us are already here and haven't agreed to such a scenario. It's likely they will enforce it starting in 2025, leaving it up to each individual to decide whether to stay or move on.

Thailand has the potential to become an extraordinary destination for wealthy netizens, digital nomads, much like Costa Rica which is also in OECD but keeps the territorial taxation scheme, or even adopt programs like those in Malaysia (which announced very recently by the way); I believe that Phills too.

However, at this specific juncture, many people, including myself, are halting all plans and considering moving elsewhere, instead of bringing money into Thailand.

I was on the verge of buying a house and a new car. All those plans are now abandoned. I'm not proceeding with anything further. I'll prepare, wait, and when something announced I'm out.

It's truly heartbreaking that such a wonderful country, one that we deeply love, some of us talking the language (including myself), respect, and invest in, is making people who bring significant capital into the country consider leaving. Instead of finding ways to engage and attract more investment, we're being pushed away.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:42 AM by Tonyfarang

[paulikens]

N/A

Edited Thursday at 11:43 AM by paulikens

[Tonyfarang]

 

21 minutes ago, Vulture82 said:

I am leaving today, infact I booked 1 month ago just for this mess... been a long lurker of this thread, clarity zero. Forget about buying a condo/house or even leasing land as most countries where they tax you based on residency, use exactly that as the proof your "interests" are in fact, in that country (hence they consider you resident there). Also... even if they now backpedal, the damage is done, do you trust Thai govt to never change idea about residency t&c... I think this is a country to come and be here for the smallest amount of time before they start to pluck you out of your money... This country is for tourists, not residents.

Prepare for a huge reprice of land/real estates as soon as, in 2025, people will get notified to pay 2024 taxes, around March... gg and gl.

Unfortunattely, I really agree with you and is so sad... really sad... I'm feeling the same, while I had Thailand in my heart like no other country. Any suggestions where to move? I'm about to move to Malaysia or Phills, currently in contact with both, very easy processes to be honest, just open an account, desposit, done... Or buy a small house... Any suggestions please???

Edited Thursday at 11:51 AM by Tonyfarang

[Incorrigible1]

25 minutes ago, Vulture82 said:

I am leaving today, infact I booked 1 month ago just for this mess... been a long lurker of this thread, clarity zero. Forget about buying a condo/house or even leasing land as most countries where they tax you based on residency, use exactly that as the proof your "interests" are in fact, in that country (hence they consider you resident there). Also... even if they now backpedal, the damage is done, do you trust Thai govt to never change idea about residency t&c... I think this is a country to come and be here for the smallest amount of time before they start to pluck you out of your money... This country is for tourists, not residents.

Prepare for a huge reprice of land/real estates as soon as, in 2025, people will get notified to pay 2024 taxes, around March... gg and gl.

Your statement regarding how countries define residency is totally incorrect.  For tax purposes, residency is defined as residing in the country for more than 180 days in a calendar year. This has been stated countless times in this forum and simply Googling “residency for tax purposes” would  give you the correct information.  Further, what if I have a house in England, but live full time in Thailand?  According to you, England would consider me to be a resident?  Your prediction regarding property prices in 2025 is worth as much as your false definition of “resident”

[Yellowtail]

13 hours ago, Presnock said:

Well that is incorrect - my taxes for my US Pension based on the 1099R I get that is used for the 1040 goes from 1 Jan to 31 Dec each year.  As for tax resident that might be different as Thailand is any 180 days in country.  Thel US, I am a citizen so I am always a tax resident for the US.  The DTA is a treaty and can just be dropped immediately as countries are required to provide 6 months I believe notice that they will cancel the treaty - or maybe re-write it and also, the other taxation program from everything we hear has just begun the talking stage so those even talking about it might not be in the next government here that could change anytime.  Good luck though on tax situation.

How is it incorrect? You are agreeing with me. 

[DirtyHarry55]

I think the Thai government must be really desperate for cash to fund their corrupt schemes!
The revenue department even turned up at our door asking why my wife wasn't paying tax and summoned her to their offices to explain.

They were going from door to door as well.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Yea but from what I have heard the required Thai heath insurance was mostly trash..And the 2 farang I knew who tried to use it got a big fat DENIED....So sure the Thai insurance companies were quite pleased with the whole heath insurance Scam....

The insurance you pay $100 a year for is trash. The policies outline specifically what is and is not covered. If you have cancer and want to buy insurance for $100 a year, forget it. 

 

I have Thai Social Security medical and pay 432 baht a month, it's okay. Are you working? 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

I think the Thai government must be really desperate for cash to fund their corrupt schemes!
The revenue department even turned up at our door asking why my wife wasn't paying tax and summoned her to their offices to explain.

They were going from door to door as well.

So why wasn't she paying tax, if I might ask?

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

I think the Thai government must be really desperate for cash to fund their corrupt schemes!
The revenue department even turned up at our door asking why my wife wasn't paying tax and summoned her to their offices to explain.

They were going from door to door as well.

 

I was told of this approach by the accounting firm that did my Thai taxes back when I first started working in Thailand over thirty years ago. The RD would select a housing estate and make inquiries at some or all of the residences.

[TimBKK]

3 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I was told of this approach by the accounting firm that did my Thai taxes back when I first started working in Thailand over thirty years ago. The RD would select a housing estate and make inquiries at some or all of the residences.

The RD working on a whim and a prayer, then and now.  Some things never change…

[DirtyHarry55]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

So why wasn't she paying tax, if I might ask?

 

She married to Farang so need to work!

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, Incorrigible1 said:

Your statement regarding how countries define residency is totally incorrect.  For tax purposes, residency is defined as residing in the country for more than 180 days in a calendar year. This has been stated countless times in this forum and simply Googling “residency for tax purposes” would  give you the correct information.  Further, what if I have a house in England, but live full time in Thailand?  According to you, England would consider me to be a resident?  Your prediction regarding property prices in 2025 is worth as much as your false definition of “resident”

His statement regarding how countries define residency is not too bad.

In Thailand, it's defined as being in Thailand more than 179 (not 180) days in a calendar year.

Many other countries use 183 days.

Many countries use ways similar to what he said,  just ask @statabout Germany,  he has mentioned it many times. 

 

[beammeup]

THE RD is only looking at the feasibility of it. No where does it suggest anywhere that it will be implemented in 2025 or ever.

[monkfish]

Srettha is a Real Estate Tycoon he must know this is going to be bad for his bizzz !!

[NoDisplayName]

8 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Srettha is a Real Estate Tycoon he must know this is going to be bad for his bizzz !!

 

How so?  The ueber-rich will avoid this tax like they do all the others rules made for the little people.  Middle income types will stay if they have established families, or they will leave, with plenty of Chinese willing to purchase their properties. 

 

He might even be buying up all the cheaper condos to sell to former tax resident ex-pats as  175-day time-shares.

[lordgrinz]

2 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

Your statement regarding how countries define residency is totally incorrect.  For tax purposes, residency is defined as residing in the country for more than 180 days in a calendar year. This has been stated countless times in this forum and simply Googling “residency for tax purposes” would  give you the correct information.  Further, what if I have a house in England, but live full time in Thailand?  According to you, England would consider me to be a resident?  Your prediction regarding property prices in 2025 is worth as much as your false definition of “resident”

 

It's not only countries, I ran into the same issue with the state of Massachusetts (USA) when working remotely as a digital nomad with a home address in Massachusetts.

[monkfish]

10 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

How so?  The ueber-rich will avoid this tax like they do all the others rules made for the little people.  Middle income types will stay if they have established families, or they will leave, with plenty of Chinese willing to purchase their properties. 

 

He might even be buying up all the cheaper condos to sell to former tax resident ex-pats as  175-day time-shares.

 

Oh yea I think you sussed out Srhetta's plan !

[MartinBangkok]

5 hours ago, Presnock said:

There is included to comments to the BP on this ariticle so the comments are just like those here, so the government is well aware of the feelings of the expats and the possible exit of many.

Possible exit?, It's in full blow, mate. Exodus is the best word for what is happening right now.

[Incorrigible1]

3 hours ago, Lorry said:

His statement regarding how countries define residency is not too bad.

In Thailand, it's defined as being in Thailand more than 179 (not 180) days in a calendar year.

Please read his post.  He defined residency as simply owning property.  I defined residency as being based upon days spent in a country

[Incorrigible1]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

It's not only countries, I ran into the same issue with the state of Massachusetts (USA) when working remotely as a digital nomad with a home address in Massachusetts.

I grew up in a small town in western Mass.  i have read a few of your posts regarding living in Thailand and can commiserate with you.  I am much older than you, so do not want the hassle of doing another (would be #6) international move.  Also, we plan to only spend 6 months a year in Thailand.  As I am sure you are aware, fishing, hiking, camping are either not to be had or not worth bothering to try.  Please do not think that I am meddling in your personal life, but I do not see how you can remain in Thailand and be happy

[Tonyfarang]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

How so?  The ueber-rich will avoid this tax like they do all the others rules made for the little people.  Middle income types will stay if they have established families, or they will leave, with plenty of Chinese willing to purchase their properties. 

 

He might even be buying up all the cheaper condos to sell to former tax resident ex-pats as  175-day time-shares.

Where are those Chinese? I'm looking for them also as due to this situation I've decide to leave too. I can't find to easily sale my condos even 20% less than what I bought them or what they were "booming" last year. As for the few agents I use, no Chinese in the horizon..

Mostly Russians which are still not aware yet of these news I assume 🙂and who awares says "We're moving back to Bali" 🙂🙂🙂

Edited Thursday at 04:50 PM by Tonyfarang

[jerrymahoney]

11 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

So why wasn't she paying tax, if I might ask?

(Just replying to the general topic)

 

US Ambassador to Thailand Robert Frank Godec (a very pleasant gent) held a meet & greet  in Ubon Ratchathani yesterday. He had these 2 comments among others:

 

He and his staff are having discussions with Thai Revenue about the impact of any possible revisions regarding taxes on Thai resident US citizen remittances to Thailand but there is nothing conclusive that he could report at this time.

 

The Thai government is also in discussions with with Ambassador Godec and his staff as to how to provide incentives for wealthier-type individuals to retire in Thailand.

 

Go figure.

[Presnock]

9 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Possible exit?, It's in full blow, mate. Exodus is the best word for what is happening right now.

I haven't seen anything yet that is an exodus but believe expats of many nations are doing that exit now or maybe in the near future as things settle a bit.  Good luck on your travels.

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

How is it incorrect? You are agreeing with me. 

Yeah, later as I re-read the initial comment and your reply, I realized that I mistook the comment - you of course were correct.  Sorry about that, I am sure it wasn't my first mistake and most likely will not be the last.  good luck!  have a good day

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

(Just replying to the general topic)

 

US Ambassador to Thailand Robert Frank Godec (a very pleasant gent) held a meet & greet  in Ubon Ratchathani yesterday. He had these 2 comments among others:

 

He and his staff are having discussions with Thai Revenue about the impact of any possible revisions regarding taxes on Thai resident US citizen remittances to Thailand but there is nothing conclusive that he could report at this time.

 

The Thai government is also in discussions with with Ambassador Godec and his staff as to how to provide incentives for wealthier-type individuals to retire in Thailand.

 

Go figure.

 

If I were "wealthier", the last place I would ever want to live is in this cesspool......I think the Thai government is delusional!

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

If I were "wealthier", the last place I would ever want to live is in this cesspool......I think the Thai government is delusional!

So if you were 'wealthier' but not ultra-wealthy, what would be your top 3 places you would want to live?

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

So if you were 'wealthier' but not ultra-wealthy, what would be your top 3 places you would want to live?

 

I'd just bring my family back home to rural USA where I loved my life, where its safe, clean, and beautiful. I've seen nothing in Thailand that would make me want to live here more than anywhere else, my list of negatives for Thailand is a mile long.