Reform UK Overtakes Tories in Polls for the First Time

[DonniePeverley]

On 6/15/2024 at 4:25 AM, simple1 said:

Nationalism and associated divisive politics has never had a happy ending. Farage is yet another revolting sycophant of trump. This is the eight time Farage has tried to get elected as an MP - I sincerely wish he fails again.

 

In trying to appease the far right, once again the Tory's have just got themselves into trouble again. Nothing learnt from the Brexit <deleted> show. 

 

Firstly the immigration topic had gone of the news in the years prior to Rishi becoming PM. There was no mention of it around Boris Johnsons tenure, as we became pre occupied with covid and general malaise in the economy. Then Rishi comes along give it the large one about immigration. Perhaps trying to be a little too clever and as a election gimmick. 

 

However, if you are going to be hostile towards immigration, and showcase the negatives, then you better deliver on it. Instead they let in record numbers, whilst at the same time spewing horrific intent towards them. with the likes of Suella Braverman going off on one. 

 

This then brings immigration back to the front of the news, and allows Farage and co to come back on their one topic bandwagon - namely blame immigrants for everything, which is very easy to do when the government themselves are being hostile. And when you have a failing economy, as night is to day, people throughout history will always blame immigrants. 

 

 

Instead Rishi could have sold some of the positive of immigration, and kept a balanced approach. A few scholars have summed it up brilliant - if you ask a room full of people who disliked immigration if they were okay with foreign doctors coming into the country. Most of the biggots would be okay. Then ask them if they're okay with foreign nurses coming into the country to makeup for the shortfall we have in the nhs. Most racists would say 'oh go on then we will have them lot too'. Then you can ask them if they are okay with doing the field picking that British workers do not want to do, and most would say okay. Then carers to look after old people, would you be okay for foreign carers to help the staff shortages there? Most would say yes. What about students who pay massive fees to come, so we can then susbsidise British students to pay less. Oh go on then. Then what about humanitarian immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong, would they be okay? Again most would be okay.

 

If you sell it like that, clearly balanced in saying immigration can be negative also, then you have a more rational debate. 

 

Brexit was sold as controlling immigration, not just about reducing numbers. So when we needed more workers we could allow more people in, and when there was a need to control the numbers we could do that too. But we are back to Farage and co on their bandwagon. 

 

Terrible politics from Rishi. And i actually think he's done a decent job. 

 

What the racists in Thailand who are supporting reform don't realise is that when these lot go up in the polls the pound shrinks slightly. If they get anywhere near power the Pound would shrink. Didn't Brexit teach you anything? If the pound had remained at pre brexit levels, we'd be on around 60 baht to the pound today. 

Edited June 16 by DonniePeverley

[James105]

59 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

Unfortunately Farage will get elected this time. He's leading in most polls there. 

 

He then hopes the Tories get decimated. 

 

The old racist members of the Tory party clamour to make him leader. 

 

He winds up the Reform party and joins the Tory party. 

 

They make him leader. 

 

Depressing. 

 

Why are you worried about this?   You already have plenty of choices as a lefty.  You can choose Labour, Greens, Lib Dems, the Scottish and Welsh parties if you are in that area and the Conservatives.   All of these parties will offer you high taxation, high immigration, high energy bills to subsidise the green agenda and massive borrowing that future generations can deal with.  For those on the right of center that want a smaller state, lower taxes and less government interference there are slim pickings.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

In trying to appease the far right, once again the Tory's have just got themselves into trouble again. Nothing learnt from the Brexit <deleted> show. 

 

Firstly the immigration topic had gone of the news in the years prior to Rishi becoming PM. There was no mention of it around Boris Johnsons tenure, as we became pre occupied with covid and general malaise in the economy. Then Rishi comes along give it the large one about immigration. Perhaps trying to be a little too clever and as a election gimmick. 

 

However, if you are going to be hostile towards immigration, and showcase the negatives, then you better deliver on it. Instead they let in record numbers, whilst at the same time spewing horrific intent towards them. with the likes of Suella Braverman going off on one. 

 

This then brings immigration back to the front of the news, and allows Farage and co to come back on their one topic bandwagon - namely blame immigrants for everything, which is very easy to do when the government themselves are being hostile. And when you have a failing economy, as night is to day, people throughout history will always blame immigrants. 

 

 

Instead Rishi could have sold some of the positive of immigration, and kept a balanced approach. A few scholars have summed it up brilliant - if you ask a room full of people who disliked immigration if they were okay with foreign doctors coming into the country. Most of the biggots would be okay. Then ask them if they're okay with foreign nurses coming into the country to makeup for the shortfall we have in the nhs. Most racists would say 'oh go on then we will have them lot too'. Then you can ask them if they are okay with doing the field picking that British workers do not want to do, and most would say okay. Then carers to look after old people, would you be okay for foreign carers to help the staff shortages there? Most would say yes. What about students who pay massive fees to come, so we can then susbsidise British students to pay less. Oh go on then. Then what about humanitarian immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong, would they be okay? Again most would be okay.

 

If you sell it like that, clearly balanced in saying immigration can be negative also, then you have a more rational debate. 

 

Brexit was sold as controlling immigration, not just about reducing numbers. So when we needed more workers we could allow more people in, and when there was a need to control the numbers we could do that too. But we are back to Farage and co on their bandwagon. 

 

Terrible politics from Rishi. And i actually think he's done a decent job. 

 

What the racists in Thailand who are supporting reform don't realise is that when these lot go up in the polls the pound shrinks slightly. If they get anywhere near power the Pound would shrink. Didn't Brexit teach you anything? If the pound had remained at pre brexit levels, we'd be on around 60 baht to the pound today. 

What a shame you missed out the 2 most important words. Legal and illegal.

 

I suspect that most people, at least according to your posts are acceptable to legal immigration, but what they don't like and don't want are the illegal immigrants, coming across the channel in rubber boats and helped on their way by the RNLI, HMCR and any other Tom, Dick or Harry.

 

Then the government spends the taxpayers money to support the illegal immigrants, rather that using that money to support the local population, who it should quite rightly be spent on.

 

 

Edited June 16 by billd766

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

In trying to appease the far right, once again the Tory's have just got themselves into trouble again. Nothing learnt from the Brexit <deleted> show. 

 

Firstly the immigration topic had gone of the news in the years prior to Rishi becoming PM. There was no mention of it around Boris Johnsons tenure, as we became pre occupied with covid and general malaise in the economy. Then Rishi comes along give it the large one about immigration. Perhaps trying to be a little too clever and as a election gimmick. 

 

However, if you are going to be hostile towards immigration, and showcase the negatives, then you better deliver on it. Instead they let in record numbers, whilst at the same time spewing horrific intent towards them. with the likes of Suella Braverman going off on one. 

 

This then brings immigration back to the front of the news, and allows Farage and co to come back on their one topic bandwagon - namely blame immigrants for everything, which is very easy to do when the government themselves are being hostile. And when you have a failing economy, as night is to day, people throughout history will always blame immigrants. 

 

 

Instead Rishi could have sold some of the positive of immigration, and kept a balanced approach. A few scholars have summed it up brilliant - if you ask a room full of people who disliked immigration if they were okay with foreign doctors coming into the country. Most of the biggots would be okay. Then ask them if they're okay with foreign nurses coming into the country to makeup for the shortfall we have in the nhs. Most racists would say 'oh go on then we will have them lot too'. Then you can ask them if they are okay with doing the field picking that British workers do not want to do, and most would say okay. Then carers to look after old people, would you be okay for foreign carers to help the staff shortages there? Most would say yes. What about students who pay massive fees to come, so we can then susbsidise British students to pay less. Oh go on then. Then what about humanitarian immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong, would they be okay? Again most would be okay.

 

If you sell it like that, clearly balanced in saying immigration can be negative also, then you have a more rational debate. 

 

Brexit was sold as controlling immigration, not just about reducing numbers. So when we needed more workers we could allow more people in, and when there was a need to control the numbers we could do that too. But we are back to Farage and co on their bandwagon. 

 

Terrible politics from Rishi. And i actually think he's done a decent job. 

 

What the racists in Thailand who are supporting reform don't realise is that when these lot go up in the polls the pound shrinks slightly. If they get anywhere near power the Pound would shrink. Didn't Brexit teach you anything? If the pound had remained at pre brexit levels, we'd be on around 60 baht to the pound today. 

Superb post.

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, James105 said:

All of these parties will offer you high taxation, high immigration, high energy bills to subsidise the green agenda and massive borrowing that future generations can deal with

All of which has already been delivered by the Tories.

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What a shame you missed out the 2 most important words. Legal and illegal.

 

I suspect that most people, at least according to your posts are acceptable to legal immigration, but what they don't like and don't want are the illegal immigrants, coming across the channel in rubber boats and helped on their way by the RNLI, HMCR and any other Tom, Dick or Harry.

 

Then the government spends the taxpayers money to support the illegal immigrants, rather that using that money to support the local population, who it should quite rightly be spent on.

 

 

A government with an unassailable majority in parliament failed to deal any and all immigration.

 

And then set about scapegoating immigrants with the outcome described by DonniePeverly.

[James105]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

All of which has already been delivered by the Tories.

 

Which is why I included the Tories in the list.  Here is a reminder of what I said as you chopped off the part that covered this in your quote:

 

"Why are you worried about this?   You already have plenty of choices as a lefty.  You can choose Labour, Greens, Lib Dems, the Scottish and Welsh parties if you are in that area and the Conservatives. "

 

Not sure if you are aware but "Conservatives" is the name of the party that people refer to as the "Tories".   So as a lefty if you crave high taxes, high immigration, high energy bills to subsidise the green agenda and you want to leave future generations with massive debts where the costs of servicing the debt is higher than the cost of the NHS then either Conservative or Labour will satisfy this craving.   There is just so much choice nowadays as a lefty.   

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

So as a lefty if you crave high taxes, high immigration, high energy bills to subsidise the green agenda and you want to leave future generations with massive debts where the costs of servicing the debt is higher than the cost of the NHS then either Conservative or Labour will satisfy this craving.

A ‘craving’ you imagined for me on my behalf.

AKA a strawman.

[transam]

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A government with an unassailable majority in parliament failed to deal any and all immigration.

 

And then set about scapegoating immigrants with the outcome described by DonniePeverly.

Not your lot putting the spanner in the works then.....?  

 

It will be a very funny future for the UK if Starmer or Farage get in control, even funnier if Rayner has to take the reins.......😂

But, you won't care, wherever you come from......🤔

[superal]

2 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

In trying to appease the far right, once again the Tory's have just got themselves into trouble again. Nothing learnt from the Brexit <deleted> show. 

 

Firstly the immigration topic had gone of the news in the years prior to Rishi becoming PM. There was no mention of it around Boris Johnsons tenure, as we became pre occupied with covid and general malaise in the economy. Then Rishi comes along give it the large one about immigration. Perhaps trying to be a little too clever and as a election gimmick. 

 

However, if you are going to be hostile towards immigration, and showcase the negatives, then you better deliver on it. Instead they let in record numbers, whilst at the same time spewing horrific intent towards them. with the likes of Suella Braverman going off on one. 

 

This then brings immigration back to the front of the news, and allows Farage and co to come back on their one topic bandwagon - namely blame immigrants for everything, which is very easy to do when the government themselves are being hostile. And when you have a failing economy, as night is to day, people throughout history will always blame immigrants. 

 

 

Instead Rishi could have sold some of the positive of immigration, and kept a balanced approach. A few scholars have summed it up brilliant - if you ask a room full of people who disliked immigration if they were okay with foreign doctors coming into the country. Most of the biggots would be okay. Then ask them if they're okay with foreign nurses coming into the country to makeup for the shortfall we have in the nhs. Most racists would say 'oh go on then we will have them lot too'. Then you can ask them if they are okay with doing the field picking that British workers do not want to do, and most would say okay. Then carers to look after old people, would you be okay for foreign carers to help the staff shortages there? Most would say yes. What about students who pay massive fees to come, so we can then susbsidise British students to pay less. Oh go on then. Then what about humanitarian immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong, would they be okay? Again most would be okay.

 

If you sell it like that, clearly balanced in saying immigration can be negative also, then you have a more rational debate. 

 

Brexit was sold as controlling immigration, not just about reducing numbers. So when we needed more workers we could allow more people in, and when there was a need to control the numbers we could do that too. But we are back to Farage and co on their bandwagon. 

 

Terrible politics from Rishi. And i actually think he's done a decent job. 

 

What the racists in Thailand who are supporting reform don't realise is that when these lot go up in the polls the pound shrinks slightly. If they get anywhere near power the Pound would shrink. Didn't Brexit teach you anything? If the pound had remained at pre brexit levels, we'd be on around 60 baht to the pound today. 

Facts , last year 1.2 million migrated to the UK last year . 50% of these are not productive . They will be claiming benefits and when the refugee status is granted the UK government has to find them accommodation . No wonder there is a housing shortage which is leaving the young UK generation having almost zero chance of owning property . In the same year (2023)  

532,000 people emigrated from the UK . These people , in order to emigrate , have to have  qualifications in their profession or trade . That is a brain drain and thus is the reason for a lack of tradesmen , doctors / health workers etc in the UK . Spin it as much as you want but immigration is a massive burden throughout Europe and has led to voters choosing the far right political parties . The UK along with other European countries is broken . Big changes are needed or the prediction of Enoch Powell may well happen .

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Not your lot putting the spanner in the works then.....?  

 

It will be a very funny future for the UK if Starmer or Farage get in control, even funnier if Rayner has to take the reins.......😂

But, you won't care, wherever you come from......🤔

What is it about ‘Unassailable majority’ that you don’t understand?

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, superal said:

Facts , last year 1.2 million migrated to the UK last year . 50% of these are not productive . They will be claiming benefits and when the refugee status is granted the UK government has to find them accommodation . No wonder there is a housing shortage which is leaving the young UK generation having almost zero chance of owning property . In the same year (2023)  

532,000 people emigrated from the UK . These people , in order to emigrate , have to have  qualifications in their profession or trade . That is a brain drain and thus is the reason for a lack of tradesmen , doctors / health workers etc in the UK . Spin it as much as you want but immigration is a massive burden throughout Europe and has led to voters choosing the far right political parties . The UK along with other European countries is broken . Big changes are needed or the prediction of Enoch Powell may well happen .

Do you have a link or links to these ‘facts’?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What is it about ‘Unassailable majority’ that you don’t understand?

Eh...?  🤔

[DonniePeverley]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

What a shame you missed out the 2 most important words. Legal and illegal.

 

I suspect that most people, at least according to your posts are acceptable to legal immigration, but what they don't like and don't want are the illegal immigrants, coming across the channel in rubber boats and helped on their way by the RNLI, HMCR and any other Tom, Dick or Harry.

 

Then the government spends the taxpayers money to support the illegal immigrants, rather that using that money to support the local population, who it should quite rightly be spent on.

 

 

 

And why has illegal migration become an issue? It's always been around, happening for years. But Rishi decided to bring it to the forefront and make an issue out of it. He probably assumed this kind of dog whistling would give him credit amongst the chore conservative voters who clearly didn't like, and probably thought he would out flank farage. 

 

But when he couldn't control it he's left himself open to blame. 

 

The problem we have at the moment is because of Brexit and primarily because of some bizarre workings from this lot. Back in the 90's, 00's the old Conservative party, and Labour would process asylum application in a week or two, and then because we were in the European Union we could deport these migrants back to France (as this is where they came from). 

 

Now we have left the EU, we do not have the option to deport them back to France. And for some bizarre reason we are now taking up to a year to process asylum applications. Why? Was it intentional?

 

It's just terrible politics from Rishi and co. In my opinion because he knew the conservate members themselves didn't want him (maybe because he was off Indian descent), he is over doing the 'i am against migration' routine. Cameron did this with Brexit too, trying to appease the far right, and it backfired. 

 

Reform getting seats, Farage being an MP will be unbearable. 

[DonniePeverley]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have a link or links to these ‘facts’?

 

9 hours ago, superal said:

Facts , last year 1.2 million migrated to the UK last year . 50% of these are not productive . They will be claiming benefits and when the refugee status is granted the UK government has to find them accommodation . No wonder there is a housing shortage which is leaving the young UK generation having almost zero chance of owning property . In the same year (2023)  

532,000 people emigrated from the UK . These people , in order to emigrate , have to have  qualifications in their profession or trade . That is a brain drain and thus is the reason for a lack of tradesmen , doctors / health workers etc in the UK . Spin it as much as you want but immigration is a massive burden throughout Europe and has led to voters choosing the far right political parties . The UK along with other European countries is broken . Big changes are needed or the prediction of Enoch Powell may well happen .

 

 

You've just made those numbers up. In 2023 - there were 62,000 asylum applications granted. Some of these were from Ukraine and Hong Kong too. 

 

Yes those 62,000 were given housing till they could become settled. But by the same token british single mothers with children were also given free housing. And we all know how that system is played - have a kid, get a free council house. Then of course you have the billions wasted during covid, and the billionaires who don't pay their share. 

 

Playing the 'system' is not only played by a few thousand asylum seekers (most will work straight away), but plenty of our own population play it too. We all know that person on benefits but working away. 

 

Furthermore when immigrants go down the route to become British citizens, they must have been working here for 5 years, have savings, no criminal record, do a life in the UK test, and an English language exam. Go ask yourself how many Brits living in Thailand can speak Thai, or the brits in Spain not speaking Spanish. 

 

The issue which even rankles me - is why it is taking ONE year to decide an asylum application. It should take no more than a few days.

 

But to sum it up, when life sucks and life is hard, racism comes to the front. 

 

The governments own research has shown immigration brings in more to the economy than takes out. A balanced approach is needed, where we can control migrants, no criminals etc. 

 

But look at Thailand and the dross living in Pattaya. 

Edited June 16 by DonniePeverley

[Woof999]

On 6/15/2024 at 3:53 PM, champers said:

Nigel Farage dips in and out of politics when it suits and him and his fellow prospective MPs have little to zero experience of governing.

 

This. He championed (along with others) the LEAVE campaign which was a crazy decision for the UK to make. As soon as the referendum was over he said "my work is done" and buggered off. Can't stand the man, although I might support some of his ideas. Just some.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

This. He championed (along with others) the LEAVE campaign which was a crazy decision for the UK to make. As soon as the referendum was over he said "my work is done" and buggered off. Can't stand the man, although I might support some of his ideas. Just some.

 

   The sole reason for UKIP existing was to get the UK to leave the E.U.

When the referendum was held and he achieved his goal and the UK voted to leave the E,U  , he then disbanded his group and retired from politics 

[Woof999]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The sole reason for UKIP existing was to get the UK to leave the E.U.

When the referendum was held and he achieved his goal and the UK voted to leave the E,U  , he then disbanded his group and retired from politics 

 

Agreed. The reason that I loathe the guy is that the referendum, when successful was only the very start of the work that was needed to leave the EU and build a successful, sustainable economy away from the bloc.

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Agreed. The reason that I loathe the guy is that the referendum, when successful was only the very start of the work that was needed to leave the EU and build a successful, sustainable economy away from the bloc.

 

   But that is the job of the current Government , Nigel wasn't part of the then current Government ; He had spent years and years campaigning and he wanted a break from it all

[champers]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   But that is the job of the current Government , Nigel wasn't part of the then current Government ; He had spent years and years campaigning and he wanted a break from it all

He'll be having another break soon when he crossses the pond to work for Fox News to cover some other place's election.

[youreavinalaff]

11 hours ago, superal said:

Facts , last year 1.2 million migrated to the UK last year . 50% of these are not productive . They will be claiming benefits and when the refugee status is granted the UK government has to find them accommodation . No wonder there is a housing shortage which is leaving the young UK generation having almost zero chance of owning property . In the same year (2023)  

532,000 people emigrated from the UK . These people , in order to emigrate , have to have  qualifications in their profession or trade . That is a brain drain and thus is the reason for a lack of tradesmen , doctors / health workers etc in the UK . Spin it as much as you want but immigration is a massive burden throughout Europe and has led to voters choosing the far right political parties . The UK along with other European countries is broken . Big changes are needed or the prediction of Enoch Powell may well happen .

You seem to be confused.

 

1.2 million refers to legal migration. Legal migrants can't claim benefits. Legal migrants, unless on a Teir 2 visa and working in Healthcare, pay £1065 a year to the NHS as a requirement for their visa. That's on top of tax and NI.

 

Therefore, they are all productive. They are earning, spending and not costing the government a penny.

 

 

[DonniePeverley]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

You seem to be confused.

 

1.2 million refers to legal migration. Legal migrants can't claim benefits. Legal migrants, unless on a Teir 2 visa and working in Healthcare, pay £1065 a year to the NHS as a requirement for their visa. That's on top of tax and NI.

 

Therefore, they are all productive. They are earning, spending and not costing the government a penny.

 

 

 

These are the facts that politicans should be making, giving a balanced view on immigration. Instead they talk a harsh rhetoric, and leave out the facts, leaving a vaccum - making way for the likes of that poster to fill in the gaps he was seen on social media. 

 

Every single country around the world has migrants. From the mexican situation in USA, Bangladeshi workers in India ... and here's one for you all .... you see all those shiny big buildings being built in Bangkok, they're done by Burmese workers. 

 

Legal migrants cannot to the UK can NOT claim benefits. The requirements now are massive, eg through marriage you need to have a partner who earns in excess of 30K a year. I could go on, for example once you have been in the UK for 5 years it is only then you can try and get British citizenship. You must then do a life in the UK test, and an English test, as well as criminal record check. And it's pretty expensive. 

 

Now all those migrants sitting in Pattaya who moan about immigration in the UK. If they had to take a Thai language test, and a Life in Thailand test, as well as showing income of £35,000 a year how easy they would think it is. 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

These are the facts that politicans should be making, giving a balanced view on immigration. Instead they talk a harsh rhetoric, and leave out the facts, leaving a vaccum - making way for the likes of that poster to fill in the gaps he was seen on social media. 

 

Every single country around the world has migrants. From the mexican situation in USA, Bangladeshi workers in India ... and here's one for you all .... you see all those shiny big buildings being built in Bangkok, they're done by Burmese workers. 

 

Legal migrants cannot to the UK can NOT claim benefits. The requirements now are massive, eg through marriage you need to have a partner who earns in excess of 30K a year. I could go on, for example once you have been in the UK for 5 years it is only then you can try and get British citizenship. You must then do a life in the UK test, and an English test, as well as criminal record check. And it's pretty expensive. 

 

Now all those migrants sitting in Pattaya who moan about immigration in the UK. If they had to take a Thai language test, and a Life in Thailand test, as well as showing income of £35,000 a year how easy they would think it is. 

 

 

Life in UK test is taken at ILR stage. That's one before citizenship.

 

The salary requirements are under £30k.

 

Other than those points, I totally agree.

[DonniePeverley]

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Life in UK test is taken at ILR stage. That's one before citizenship.

 

The salary requirements are under £30k.

 

Other than those points, I totally agree.

 

Yes appologise you need a salary of £29,000 currently. But isn't this set to rise to £38,700 next year? 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

Yes appologise you need a salary of £29,000 currently. But isn't this set to rise to £38,700 next year? 

It's going up in increments. Those already in UK are grandfathered at the £18600.

 

That could change though, with a change of government coming up.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

 

 

You've just made those numbers up. In 2023 - there were 62,000 asylum applications granted. Some of these were from Ukraine and Hong Kong too. 

 

Yes those 62,000 were given housing till they could become settled. But by the same token british single mothers with children were also given free housing. And we all know how that system is played - have a kid, get a free council house. Then of course you have the billions wasted during covid, and the billionaires who don't pay their share. 

 

Playing the 'system' is not only played by a few thousand asylum seekers (most will work straight away), but plenty of our own population play it too. We all know that person on benefits but working away. 

 

Furthermore when immigrants go down the route to become British citizens, they must have been working here for 5 years, have savings, no criminal record, do a life in the UK test, and an English language exam. Go ask yourself how many Brits living in Thailand can speak Thai, or the brits in Spain not speaking Spanish. 

 

The issue which even rankles me - is why it is taking ONE year to decide an asylum application. It should take no more than a few days.

 

But to sum it up, when life sucks and life is hard, racism comes to the front. 

 

The governments own research has shown immigration brings in more to the economy than takes out. A balanced approach is needed, where we can control migrants, no criminals etc. 

 

But look at Thailand and the dross living in Pattaya. 

Agree with the exception of, these two remarks:

 

But to sum it up, when life sucks and life is hard, racism comes to the front. 

 

But look at Thailand and the dross living in Pattaya.

 

Firstly, while yes the UK economy is in a mess and times are hard for millions of people, it is rightwing populist (who have had a hand in causing the mess) are scapegoating immigrants and using racism for their own political ends. The leading ‘lights’ within the parliamentary Tory party have disgracefully joined in this scapegoating.

 

I’m sure there is some ‘dross’ living in Pattaya, just as there are other western migrants who live and work in the area, doing what the vast majority of migrants do everywhere, the best they can for themselves and their families, work, contribute to society and peacefully obey they law. 
 

 

 

Edited June 16 by Chomper Higgot

[Smokey and the Bandit]

On 6/15/2024 at 1:42 PM, koolkarl said:

Wait till the muslims form their own political party.  Adios England.

I sense a degree of sarcasm in your comment, however you may not so far from the truth?

[superal]

5 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

These are the facts that politicans should be making, giving a balanced view on immigration. Instead they talk a harsh rhetoric, and leave out the facts, leaving a vaccum - making way for the likes of that poster to fill in the gaps he was seen on social media. 

 

Every single country around the world has migrants. From the mexican situation in USA, Bangladeshi workers in India ... and here's one for you all .... you see all those shiny big buildings being built in Bangkok, they're done by Burmese workers. 

 

Legal migrants cannot to the UK can NOT claim benefits. The requirements now are massive, eg through marriage you need to have a partner who earns in excess of 30K a year. I could go on, for example once you have been in the UK for 5 years it is only then you can try and get British citizenship. You must then do a life in the UK test, and an English test, as well as criminal record check. And it's pretty expensive. 

 

Now all those migrants sitting in Pattaya who moan about immigration in the UK. If they had to take a Thai language test, and a Life in Thailand test, as well as showing income of £35,000 a year how easy they would think it is. 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have a link or links to these ‘facts’?

The data suggest net migration has started to decrease following its 2022 peak, with 1,180,000 people immigrating and 508,000 emigrating in the year ending June—with net migration at 672,000. This most recent figure is lower than the figure for calendar year 2022, but up from the previous full year ending June 2022. 

18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have a link or links to these ‘facts’?

The data suggest net migration has started to decrease following its 2022 peak, with 1,180,000 people immigrating and 508,000 emigrating in the year ending June—with net migration at 672,000. This most recent figure is lower than the figure for calendar year 2022, but up from the previous full year ending June 2022. 

 

Stats reported by the " Migration Observatory " at the university of Oxford .

Links to the real facts are easy to find on a Google search . Immigration in the UK by either a legal or illegal route has and is causing unrest among the UK population , as it is in other European countries . The UK crime rates have soared which  correlates to uncontrolled immigration . Many towns have " no go areas " , and shoplifting crimes carried out by immigrants are so many that the police do not attend the crime scene . Housing costs beyond the reach of most first time buyers and rents are at an all time high because of a lack accommodation . 

There are specialized non- indigenous immigration lawyers who tell immigrants what to say in order to remain in the UK ( made up stories of persecution to satisfy the immigration officer )  . The lawyers advise on the UK benefits system which is overwhelmed

It is no wonder that the Reform Party have so much backing .


 

[DonniePeverley]

1 minute ago, superal said:

The lawyers advise on the UK benefits system which is overwhelmed

It is no wonder that the Reform Party have so much backing .


 

 

 

Genuine question - but why would you blame 60,000 asylum cases for the benefit system being overwhelmed. Remember if you arrive by legal migration you cannot claim any benefits. 

 

There are over 6 million people in the UK on some form of Universal credit (benefit system payment). Yet you chose to focus on the 60,000 asylum seekers. 

 

Ignorance is no excuse. 

 

[DonniePeverley]

23 minutes ago, superal said:

Many towns have " no go areas "

 

Which areas? There are some towns in the north east of England, where there are barely any immigrants that i did feel unsure about. I recall a match in Newcastle and our hotel in the middle of a horrific looking estate. Yobs of local British kids everywhere. 

 

23 minutes ago, superal said:

 

There are specialized non- indigenous immigration lawyers who tell immigrants what to say

 

Plenty of immigration solicitors in Thailand too telling you how to play the system.  You know get yourself a thai wife on contract so you can buy a bar, etc  You know that pesky border run and all that. 

 

You do realise by the way ... Thailand has mass immigration from Myanmar. They build all those big tall skyscraper condos in Bangkok. 

 

Australia, Canada, USA, all have big immigration numbers. It's not exclusive to the UK. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, superal said:

The UK crime rates have soared which  correlates to uncontrolled immigration .

 

Nothing to do with the huge cuts to the policing services over the past 14 years? The vast majority of crime is caused by the indigenous population, despite the headlines you may read. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, superal said:

Housing costs beyond the reach of most first time buyers and rents are at an all time high because of a lack accommodation . 

 

Housing costs is not exclusive to the UK, but most western countries. During the pandemic most house building ground to a halt. Many developers keep housing build to low levels to increase pricing. In the UK there are plenty of affordable places to buy, you just have to move outside of London. It's like saying you only want to live in ThongLor in Bangkok and using that as a borometer for rental prices in Bangkok. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, superal said:

legal or illegal route has and is causing unrest among the UK population
 

 

 

There are 112,000 vacancies in the NHS. They could be filled tomorrow by foreign nurses and doctors. But nah racist rhetoric is better.

 

International students (included in those immigration numbers) pay massive sums to study in the UK. Those fees then essentially keep our Universities some of the best in the world, and subsidise the cost of British students. 

 

Recent governments own statistics shown immigration brings in more than it takes out. You can't argue with real stats. 

 

Indian immigrants were most likely to do well, followed by Chinese immigrants. The British were 4th. 

 

Whilst i agree with you there needs to be a balanced controlled immigration policy - but you appear to be blaming EVERYTHING on immigrants. I have this sort of chat with people in Pattaya daily. They sit in bars pontificating about immigrants, reading the Daily Mail, whilst being immigrants themselves (sorry expats), not speaking a word of Thai, and barely contributing anything here other than frequent visits to bars and naughty bars. 

 

The UK has been going through austerity for the best part of 14 years caused by the financial crash of 2008 - that is where the problems began. Take it easy. 

Edited June 17 by DonniePeverley