Is Thailand's subtle bias to Russia (vs. the collective west) risking secondary sanctions?

[Jingthing]

There I said it.

Thailand plays neutral on Russia's genocidal war of choice against Ukraine, but it's not hard to see a pro Russian bias in reality.

It's about Thailand's national interest, economic interest, not about morality. 

This video speaks of the situation starting at 6:30:

 

 

So of course right or wrong Thailand is a sovereign nation and has the right to set it's own foreign policy, just as Ukraine is a sovereign nation that Russia doesn't want to exist.

 

So as expats, why should we care?

 

Well, maybe we shouldn't, but following the news a new set of sanctions just hit Russia and Putin is freaking out.

It probably won't be the last set of sanctions.

The trend is towards SECONDARY sanctions and BANKS are a prime target.

What am I getting at?

Well if Thailand gets hit with secondary sanctions, it seems to me that expats here dependent on foreign transfers might be hit by that as well,

 

 

 

[Hummin]

I think if the west started threatening with sanctions, they would only serve Putin and China, and push them over! I also believe Thailand have a second view on moral coming from the west historically seen in perspective. 

I'm not sure how Thailand feel about the past being central in the Usa war in Vietnam, Laos and cambodia. Also seen in retrospect the colonisation of the whole region.

 

The question is, do Asian believe in democrazy and the West as an future alliance? 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I think if the west started threatening with sanctions, they would only serve Putin and China, and push them over! I also believe Thailand have a second view on moral coming from the west historically seen in perspective. 

I'm not sure how Thailand feel about the past being central in the Usa war in Vietnam, Laos and cambodia. Also seen in retrospect the colonisation of the whole region.

 

The question is, do Asian believe in democrazy and the West as an future alliance? 

There is a global trend towards totalitarianism over democracy. 

It seems to me the west lacks the great leadership to turn that tide.

 

You talk about threatening sanctions. The sanctions so far are very real, not threats. Russia has been effective at getting around them, so its always a moving target.

 

Edited June 18 by Jingthing

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is a global trend towards totalitarianism over democracy. 

It seems to me the west lacks the great leadership to turn that tide.

 

You talk about threatening sanctions. The sanctions so far are very real, not threats.

 

Good to see the emotion spineless police do their job

I ment sanctions against those who do not follow the dictations from the west, and in this case Thailand. It is an analytic view of how Asian countries see “us”, and when you see the chaos in our countries when it comes to democracy, how can we blame them? 

Can we agree the Us looks like a dysfunctional democracy who have lost their dignity through the last decades of failed wars? If not 70 years of failed foreign policies?

 

With Usa supporting Israel on top of the list lately, it seems they have lost their power totally, and do the same as Russia and China, using their veto when they can and want in UN. 

[connda]

Is Thailand's subtle bias to Russia (vs. the collective west) risking secondary sanctions?

 

Absolutely "yes," which is why more and more sovereign countries who are not aligned with the G7 and the Western "blob" are openly applying for BRICS membership.  So many of these "bad" non-aligned countries now have been "sanctioned" or threatened with sanctions for not following the rules set up by the Western "rules-based international order" (We make the rules; you follow our rules or else [and the rules don't apply to us]) that they now see the best option is to join the BRICS alliance, turn their backs on the West's "Golden Billion" and build trade and security alliances with the other 7 billion souls in third-world and developing counties.

China and Russia are going to colonize all of them!  Ha ha ha ha ha!"

Most of those countries have already been colonized by Western task-masters and know the difference between mutually beneficial economic and security pacts and unilateral colonialism.  Most of these non-aligned countries are showing enthusiasm for a change.  As a student of history and Geo-politics - I can't blame them.

[connda]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is a global trend towards totalitarianism over democracy. 

The West is basically gravitating toward totalitarianism while its leaders wrap themselves in flags labelled "We're Democracies."

Fyi my man - you're an American.  We're not a freaking "democracy," we are a Republic.  Or used to be.  Maybe not anymore.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Good to see the emotion spineless police do their job

I ment sanctions against those who do not follow the dictations from the west, and in this case Thailand. It is an analytic view of how Asian countries see “us”, and when you see the chaos in our countries when it comes to democracy, how can we blame them? 

Can we agree the Us looks like a dysfunctional democracy who have lost their dignity through the last decades of failed wars? If not 70 years of failed foreign policies?

 

With Usa supporting Israel on top of the list lately, it seems they have lost their power totally, and do the same as Russia and China, using their veto when they can and want in UN. 

Your bias isn't subtle.

You're getting into stuff outside this topic.

I meant to highlight that Thailand's position has the possibility of attracting attention that could possibly impact expats here.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, connda said:

The West is basically gravitating toward totalitarianism while its leaders wrap themselves in flags labelled "We're Democracies."

Fyi my man - you're an American.  We're not a freaking "democracy," we are a Republic.  Or used to be.  Maybe not anymore.

That's a stupid distinction promoted by maga fascists.

 

Yes, the Constitution Set Up a Democracy - The Atlantic

[Jingthing]

I don't think Thailand's position on the Russian war of aggresion has anything to do with ideology about historical colonialism or anything else.

It's about where they think they can make the most money.

They play neutral of course also to try to preserve western economic ties as well. 

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Your bias isn't subtle.

You're getting into stuff outside this topic.

I meant to highlight that Thailand's position has the possibility of attracting attention that could possibly impact expats here.

Thailand, only does or say what big brother Xi tells them to do or say, and keep saying they are neutral, sure they are 555, look at quantity of low life Russians thugs they accepted, Thailand is a wuss banana republic

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Your bias isn't subtle.

You're getting into stuff outside this topic.

I meant to highlight that Thailand's position has the possibility of attracting attention that could possibly impact expats here.

My bias? Oh my, it is not what I hope for, and it is not that I support Russia or China, it is about seeing the whole picture with all colours intact and not just what you want to see or belive! It is alot going on at the same time, and remember China has its own interest  conflicts going on in South China Sea as well, where Us is heavily present. You have to reason on middle ground why Thailand choose to sit still and wait and see! 

 

A few days old article going world wide now

 

Xi Jinping claimed US wants China to attack Taiwan

Chinese president told European Commission president that Washington was trying to goad Beijing into war. 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/7d6ca06c-d098-4a48-818e-112b97a9497a

[Mavideol]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I don't think Thailand's position on the Russian war of aggresion has anything to do with ideology about historical colonialism or anything else.

It's about where they think they can make the most money.

They play neutral of course also to try to preserve western economic ties as well. 

you damn right, 100% spot on

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think Thailand's position on the Russian war of aggresion has anything to do with ideology about historical colonialism or anything else.

It's about where they think they can make the most money.

They play neutral of course also to try to preserve western economic ties as well. 

 

Do you think Thailand want western democrazy? Im not talking about the peoples vote, Im talking about those who actually is in power and pull the strings

[kimamey]

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Good to see the emotion spineless police do their job

I ment sanctions against those who do not follow the dictations from the west, and in this case Thailand. It is an analytic view of how Asian countries see “us”, and when you see the chaos in our countries when it comes to democracy, how can we blame them? 

Can we agree the Us looks like a dysfunctional democracy who have lost their dignity through the last decades of failed wars? If not 70 years of failed foreign policies?

 

With Usa supporting Israel on top of the list lately, it seems they have lost their power totally, and do the same as Russia and China, using their veto when they can and want in UN. 

I can see your point, but the one thing you haven't mentioned is Ukraine which is the country that is suffering. From what I've seen many Thais aren't very good at looking beyond their own immediate needs and wants and taking responsibility. They will have looked at their situation rather than the death and destruction in Ukraine and base their decisions on that rather than taking a more difficult and responsible stance which might cost them.

[Jingthing]

Look, I did start this topic, but I see it's attracting a lot of hostility, and a lot of moronic anti western, anti democracy rhetoric. I'm not interested in wasting my time with that. 

I started this to bring up a concern that I haven't heard before -- the risk that Thailand might eventually be hit with secondary sanctions because of their obvious strong economic ties with fascist dictator Putin's Russia and that IF it does that will mean Thai banks, and expats depend on Thai banks. That's all. No predictions that will ever happen, but it might.

Edited June 18 by Jingthing

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, kimamey said:

I can see your point, but the one thing you haven't mentioned is Ukraine which is the country that is suffering. From what I've seen many Thais aren't very good at looking beyond their own immediate needs and wants and taking responsibility. They will have looked at their situation rather than the death and destruction in Ukraine and base their decisions on that rather than taking a more difficult and responsible stance which might cost them.

To be true, the war in Ukraine is so distant from thais, and not so different from the wars we have seen in Africa for so long. Yes, it is horrible, we send some money, some un soldiers, and so, but thats it, it doesnt concern us

[kimamey]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

To be true, the war in Ukraine is so distant from thais, and not so different from the wars we have seen in Africa for so long. Yes, it is horrible, we send some money, some un soldiers, and so, but thats it, it doesnt concern us

That's basically it. They'd rather not think about it. The west has tried to avoid it as well, which is why Putin didn't stop at Crimea.

[connda]

When you heard the same sentence repeated over and over again, it's propaganda.

"Russian aggression,"  Over and over and over....
"Unprovoked war,"  Over and over and over.....
"Putin has already lost."  Over and over and over......
New
"Putin is not in any position to dictate to Ukraine..." and you'll now hear that over and over and over....

It's effective propaganda directed at people like the OP who will then repeat the same lines over and over and over....

The West has one set of goals - the strategic defeat of Russia, the overthrow of the Russian government, and the breakup of the Russian Federation. After that (actually as soon as possible) - onward to do the same with China.  Only problem being?  The West doesn't have the military to invade Russia or China and break them up.  So it will go nuclear. Then it's "So long and thanks for all the fish."  Which is what ideologues like the OP want.  They believe the West can destroy Russia, China, Iran, DPRK, ME/NA/The Sahel and the nascent BRICS with military force.  Ain't gonna happen.  What will happen is that the planet Earth will experience "Global Warming" at a temperature of a few hundred million degree Celsium followed by a nuclear winter. Everyone dies but the Morlocks in their continuity of government bunkers.

 

It's patently insane, but George H.W. Bush did call the neocons crafting this insanity, "The Crazies In The Basement."
There was a reason.

[John Drake]

The banking sanctions are weak. Prohibiting US investment and restricting imports from Thailand would play out much better. The problem is the US is happy appearing weak. All of the anti-American positions and actions Thailand has taken since Srettha took over has seen no pushback whatsoever. China would come out and threaten. They've done so in the past and got Thailand's attention. Thailand enjoys an export surplus with the US that is about the same in size as Thailand's export deficit with China. The US could act and severely impact what is going on in Thailand. But we can't even get a statement out of the embassy. All the ambassador does is post videos and pictures of his morning jogging.

[connda]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's a stupid distinction promoted by maga fascists.

When all else fails, resort to ad-hominid personal slanders.  Effective slanders include "MAGA" "Fascist" "Pro-Trump" (wait awhile, the OP will show us some more).

OP - I consider both Biden and Trump to be over-the-hill geriatric sock-puppets, neither of whom should be running for the presidency of the United States.

I'll leave it to you to sling mud.  I'm not lowering myself to your level. 
 

[Hummin]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Look, I did start this topic, but I see it's attracting a lot of hostility, and a lot of moronic anti western, anti democracy rhetoric. I'm not interested in wasting my time with that. 

I started this to bring up a concern that I haven't heard before -- the risk that Thailand might eventually be hit with secondary sanctions because of their obvious strong economic ties with fascist dictator Putin's Russia and that IF it does that will mean Thai banks, and expats depend on Thai banks. That's all. No predictions that will ever happen, but it might.

 

You can't hide the facts, this is not just who is good and who is bad, this is a larger scaled economic war, not just about Russia's cruel invasion on Ukraine. 

 

Ukraine have something both sides want and need, if we can allow us to split the conflict in to two sides. 

 

On the third hand, Germany, who have made themselves dependent on cheap oil and gas from Russia, who has a great responsibility for the conflict in my eyes combined with the hysterical green shift we have tried to convince the world about, making us even more vulnerable. 

 

I'm not saying we do not need to make a change in consumption and stop extortion of our planet, but at the same time it makes us weaker for energy and economic wars. 

 

Just be patient, it is not because I do believe in Russian propaganda, it is rather to have an sober and neutral view of the war politics and how other countries see us and why they choose the way they do. 

 

Europe facing a big challenge with China and trading with them in the future. We have made us dependent on their economic power, and it's maybe too late already to turn, which will finally split europe into not a collective force against China but into countries with selective interests.

 

At the end of the day, we have to make a good look at our selves and see why things escalating the wrong direction. 

Edited June 18 by Hummin

[connda]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Look, I did start this topic, but I see it's attracting a lot of hostility, and a lot of moronic anti western, anti democracy rhetoric. I'm not interested in wasting my time with that. 

I started this to bring up a concern that I haven't heard before -- the risk that Thailand might eventually be hit with secondary sanctions because of their obvious strong economic ties with fascist dictator Putin's Russia and that IF it does that will mean Thai banks, and expats depend on Thai banks. That's all. No predictions that will ever happen, but it might.

If you chose to wade into the stream, don't complain when the piranhas nibble at the foundations of your premises by providing legitimate arguments refuting their veracity and substance. If you can't swim, don't jump into the pool in the first place.

[Jingthing]

Just now, connda said:

If you chose to wade into the stream, don't complain when the piranhas nibble at the foundations of your premises by providing legitimate arguments refuting their veracity and substance. If you can't swim, don't jump into the pool in the first place.

I'm not really complaining.

People almost always try to hijack topics.

I'm just saying I will not participate further in off topic areas on this topic.

It doesn't interest me.

What interests me is pointing out the possibility of secondary sanctions here which if that happens. would most likely impact expats here.

This is an expat forum. Expats are my focus in starting this.

Debate amongst yourselves as you wish, but don't expect me to play with you.

[Purdey]

1. Democracy: a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

2. Republic: a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

3. Thailand is non-aligned. I doubt it will fall on one side or another. 

4. If sanctions worked, why is Russia able to fight a foreign war?

[Summerinsiam]

They are quite senslbly remaining neutral and there is no chance that this prudent stance will result in any secondary banking sanctions. Like much of the global south they do not view the conflict in strictly black and white terms, especially when the west's hypocrisy and blatant double standards are on open display in Gaza. I would guess that Thais are more concerned about their own neighborhood and the civil war next door in Myannmar. What is the west doing about that? Oh that's right, nothing.

[impulse]

I'm wondering if some of the posters (and OP's) could possibly insert any more trigger words...

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Summerinsiam said:

They are quite senslbly remaining neutral and there is no chance that this prudent stance will result in any secondary banking sanctions. Like much of the global south they do not view the conflict in strictly black and white terms, especially when the west's hypocrisy and blatant double standards are on open display in Gaza. I would guess that Thais are more concerned about their own neighborhood and the civil war next door in Myannmar. What is the west doing about that? Oh that's right, nothing.

This relates to the actual topic.

I do not believe that Thailand is neutral and I do not believe the west or Russia believes it either.

I'm not saying they're rabidly pro Putin or anything like that but the strong economic ties with Russia show the actual reality. 

If you actually believe they're actually neutral that's fine. I don't.

Edited June 18 by Jingthing

[Hummin]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not really complaining.

People almost always try to hijack topics.

I'm just saying I will not participate further in off topic areas on this topic.

It doesn't interest me.

What interests me is pointing out the possibility of secondary sanctions here which if that happens. would most likely impact expats here.

This is an expat forum. Expats are my focus in starting this.

Debate amongst yourselves as you wish, but don't expect me to play with you.

To answer your question, Im already moving out, and secure my future in my orign coiuntry. I know it will not be a future destination for me, based on what we already experience of changes. 

 

I do not find Thailand reliable for many reasons, except for the climate and good value for my money. Thailands "neutral" view have not changed my view or contributed to further already negative loaded feelings about Thailands political system or the poor extortion of their own people, and lack of education. 

 

Extortion in a way, they do not give Thais equally possiblities, but rather protects the elite, and continue to favorize those who have resourches to buy themselves out of crimes, and as well buy themselves positions. 

 

I do not think retired expats would be hit by sanctions, but those who have business with Thailand, but again, the car industry, the motorbike, electronics, it will take time to implement sanctions on Thailand. 

 

 

Edited June 18 by Hummin

[connda]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What interests me is pointing out the possibility of secondary sanctions here which if that happens. would most likely impact expats here.

No.  Secondary sanctions (which should not be levied in the first place hence the review of historical and Geo-politics on which Western sanctions are based) will not affect ex-pats.  However, when Thailand actually becomes a member of the BRICS, those secondary sanctions may become primary sanctions.  Then?  Well, Argentina and the PI are aligned with the US.  Start looking for another retirement Mecca to hang your expat-hat before the West begins to "punish" those counties who don't align with "the correct side" or follow the correct rules:  First sanctions, then destabilize the government and fabric of Thai society, then maybe drop bombs. It's happened during my lifetime here in SE Asia. Then Thailand may become an unsafe place for Western expats.  Perhaps it's time to leave before things heat up?  Just saying...

[0ffshore360]

For as long as the US has an interest in at very least  maintaining co-operation in strategic /diplomatic status with Thailand in opposition to China's influences pursuing sanctions would seem to be a self inflicted damage action. India has a huge bias towards  Russia but has not suffered sanctions. Not even after recent signed deals with Iran.