Dog Attacks Whilst Biking.

[chinthee]

Being on a bicycle is actually one of the worst places to face a dog. If you are going fast enough, or have enough head start, you are tempted to outrun it. If you just keep going normally, and the dogs chase and bother you, it is distracting and very dangerous in traffic as you can lose control of the bike or fail to swerve to avoid a parked car, or inadvertently swerve out into the road to avoid the dog chasing into your front wheel, which can cause a motorist to hit you. (yes, I've experienced all the above near-misses)

The best thing to do is get off the bike and use it as a weapon with the chain ring on top of any dog. However, if you have clipless pedals, getting out of your bike is not as fast and easy as you think.

Not a nice place to be. Motorbike is a much safer place, as is walking.

[jackr]

I'm so fed up with this damm stray dog issue. The only reason I'm responding now is because the usual powerful tv pro-dog, anti-human mafia hasn't yet descended upon this thread laying waste to all who interfere with the dogs' inalienable and irrevocable rights to happiness above all safety, health or mental welfare interests of lesser human beings.

Yep, strange bunch that lot. Usually of the Doris variety

[Swelters]

I carry one of those collapsable aluminum billy clubs and just whip it out and threaten any dogs that chase me and they back off big time. Had to do the same thing with a couple of humans who threatened me with a beer bottle one time and it worked on them too.

Where can one find this odd but useful item in Thailand, a collapsible billy club?

Thanks

[jackr]

I've done a fair amount of biking in Muang Thai and regularly come across packs of mutts havin' a go. Most of the time just simply outrun them but if having a bad hair day will lock up, about face and chase after them. They invariably cower off in all directions and will usually split just from the act of a short-burst lock up. Staring down the leader is another good one but advisable to not be going uphill at the time in case it all goes tits up and backfires.

[Bredbury Blue]

I used to work for a Council in the UK doing house visits so like a postman or milkman and i was constantly bothered by dogs. They used to issue to their staff a little handheld device that sent out a highpitched noise, it was bad enough that i didn't use it often as it was uncomfortable for me, for dogs it was unbearable!

[Bredbury Blue]

I carry one of those collapsable aluminum billy clubs and just whip it out and threaten any dogs that chase me and they back off big time. Had to do the same thing with a couple of humans who threatened me with a beer bottle one time and it worked on them too.

Where can one find this odd but useful item in Thailand, a collapsible billy club?

Thanks

It's called a bike pump - try it, they extend so there's also a surprise for dogs.

[Bredbury Blue]

The thing is , the dogs smell your thoughts !

[chinthee]

I carry one of those collapsable aluminum billy clubs and just whip it out and threaten any dogs that chase me and they back off big time. Had to do the same thing with a couple of humans who threatened me with a beer bottle one time and it worked on them too.

Where can one find this odd but useful item in Thailand, a collapsible billy club?

Thanks

There's a "mercenary" soi street market full of this stuff, fake guns, hand held crossbows and other fun stuff just opposite the Khlong Tom market in Chinatown in BKK. Just ask any taxi to take you to Khlong Tom market. You can also find them upstairs at MBK at some of the vendors.

[Macx]

After years of trail running and cycling, I found that pepper spray works best. You can deter a whole pack at a time. Just spray in a fan pattern.

A few things to remember.

Try not to spray upwind.

Unless you think you can escape (or it's simply fun to race the dogs), don't speed up because it reduces your ability to aim and increases your chances of a crash with other vehicles/objects.

After using the canister keep it away from your body and don't rub your eyes with the hand that held the canister. The residue is enough to cause considerable discomfort.

And, make sure to test the pressure in the canister every few months. They don't last forever.

Happy spraying

[calibanjr.]

God, please don't ever change the title of this thread or let it die! It brightens my day to have it pop up on the view new posts search. Guess I'll just have to bump it when necessary.

[Bredbury Blue]

How about riding equiped with one of those airhorns you hear at football matches - would scare the bejesus out of our canine friends!

[canuckamuck]

I think there are some important differences between motorcycles and bicycles when it comes to dog attacks. I think with a pedal bike, you have a much better chance of stopping and getting off, which in itself might stop an attack. But the added advantage is that you actually have a bike that you can lift and threaten the dogs with. If you picked up a bike and came towards the dogs I am 99% sure they will be done chasing you. And as Chintee pointed out, if that doesn’t work, a bike can be a weapon or at the least a great shield.

The motorcycle is a different problem. For one, you can’t just drop it, you need to park it; and once you are off, it’s just you and the dogs. If stopping the bike didn’t scare them away, you’re in for a rockfight, kickfest, or feeding frenzy; highly undesirable. The best advantage of the motorbike is usually you can easily get away with just a twist of the throttle. I have been caught at an intersection, a windy corner, and at a dead end before. This first ended with a well placed kick; the other two were narrow escapes for me. I have also at times turned around a gave the dog a good chase with the bike, it is good to see an aggressive dog on the run.

For myself, I think I will mount one of those collapsible clubs inside the faring of my motorbike, where I can get it easily while still in motion. Objects in hand are almost always effective as a deterrent. Dogs don’t waste time trying to figure out the effectiveness of the weapon. And on the very rare chance the dog would continue the attack. At least you have something easy to use and probably effective.

As far as the spray is concerned, the fatal flaw is wind and the short range. If the dog/s is seriously after you, there is a high chance that by the time you got it out, figured out upwind, and aimed, you will be better off hitting him with the can. I do see how it could cause a dog or a pack of dogs to back off of an aggressive stance though, which is usually what they are doing. I can also see myself with a face full of pepper spray and a dog ripping at me from each side. Worst case scenario!

Edited August 3, 2007 by canuckamuck

[mr_hippo]

The best thing to do is get off the bike and use it as a weapon with the chain ring on top of any dog. I agree - if you have to stop, stand with the bike between you and the dog

However, if you have clipless pedals, getting out of your bike is not as fast and easy as you think. Isn't it?

Some people have mentioned pepper spray - try a kid's water pistol filled with a 50/50 mix of ground pepper and water.

Bike pump - good idea if your pump is easily detachable from the bike

Out-running the dogs? Some are persistent - I was out on a club run years ago and one chased us for about 7 miles!

[Marcan]

I leave in a mooban in Samutprakarn where it seems that the street dogs are civilized and the dogs owned by residents well trained.

I ridding and jogging almost every day without any problem exept a little dog who like to run after everything moving faster than a snail.

As I plan to get a dog soon, does anybody know a good dog trainer in Srinakarin - Theparak area?

[chinthee]

The best thing to do is get off the bike and use it as a weapon with the chain ring on top of any dog. I agree - if you have to stop, stand with the bike between you and the dog

However, if you have clipless pedals, getting out of your bike is not as fast and easy as you think. Isn't it?

Some people have mentioned pepper spray - try a kid's water pistol filled with a 50/50 mix of ground pepper and water.

Bike pump - good idea if your pump is easily detachable from the bike

Out-running the dogs? Some are persistent - I was out on a club run years ago and one chased us for about 7 miles!

Ok, now we're getting to the nitty gritty of confrontations with loose dogs. A member mentioned on another thread about using household ammonia mixed with water in a simple spray bottle, turning the stream to long distance. I haven't tried that one. However, I agree that even with sprays, you really don't want an aggresive dog getting that close in the first place, and for that reason an extendable truncheon makes sense, if the dog fears it.

Regarding the clipless pedals, yeah, normally you can get out of them quickly. However, if you get lazy and don't adjust them they can get tight. I let that happen to me so that it required a stiff twist of the leg to get out of mine. Mistake. Not with dogs, but going up a very steep hill, my chain link slipped, and the bike stopped, I couldn't get out of the pedals and tumbled.

The problem with these stray dogs is not just the intentional threats, but the road hazard they present. A lot of them just lie in the road in your path. If you are going along, you have to swerve to avoid them, putting you in the path of cars! Some of them are at unexpected sharp turns, and this is dangerous. Sometimes, you surprise them as well, and that either scares them off (most of the time), or makes them feel contronted, when they get aggresive. Even more dangerous than that, is the aimless wandering that groups of these dogs will do just ahead in your lane. I've been going at a good clip, and then several of these dogs near a temple were just meandering around, going back and forth, and I nearly tumbled over the handlebars when one switched directions and I had to apply the brakes last second. After that, I learned to always slow down around dogs, go slow, never look or glance at them and sort of pass them as Thais on bikes do - like an old lady.

To be honest, once you learn how to completely avoid looking at them, they rarely confront you, but some do, and it's unnerving because of the danger of riding in traffic anyway.

[Amethyst]

I hate riding a bike here . In Singapore when u go riding your bike or jog on the road there is no such problems , no dogs or broken roads. But in Thailand its just too bad.

[tartempion]

So Chintee, you condone the poisonning of stray dogs?

Note my dog was not a stray dog, but he got poisonned anyway.

Note also we did live at the end of a closed community, no tourist wandering.

Three cats aso died that morning and two other dogs got poisonned but did not die, I suppose mine was first to have found a happy meal.

I ride my bicylcle every day here in the rice fields and where I lived before around Chumpon also.

I sometimes meet agressive barking dogs, never got bitten. When it's just one I don't care, just drive on, when they are a group I stop, get off my bike and show agressive behaviour (yes I will bite them) that makes them back off. I stll might get bitten someday, who knows? But I continue bicycling.

And yes, I don't get the "Kill them mentality"

I do loathe the whoever dropped poison in my neighbourhood.

We moved out to a village and have 3 dogs behind our property wall (they are not allowed to get out), but we still miss that one special dog we raised with a child milk bottle and who was a lot nicier than the dogs we have now.

[canuckamuck]

I ride my bicylcle every day here in the rice fields and where I lived before around Chumpon also.

I sometimes meet agressive barking dogs, never got bitten. When it's just one I don't care, just drive on, when they are a group I stop, get off my bike and show agressive behaviour (yes I will bite them) that makes them back off. I stll might get bitten someday, who knows? But I continue bicycling.

Exactly how many aggresive dogs have you bitten, and how exaclty did you avoid being bit while doing it?

You must be an A level predator to have that sort of skill. I am very impressed.

[threelegcowboy]

All,

Revised version.....

Having been attacked a million times by dogs while I was walking or riding a motobike, I feel I am qualified to speak on this. Sometimes the Thais will just stand back while the dogs attack like it is some sporting event. Very few times have the Thais called off the dogs. The dogs are protecting their terf and some have had rocks thrown at them while others have not. There are some that will bark while others will bite if they can.

*********************************************

If ridding a bike you can install a holder for a club. If you have a slender pole like club then fasten a second PCV pipe (ductape verticle with bottom pluged) on your bike. Make sure you can slide the club easyly from the holder. This will allow you to travel without holding the club but have easy access to it. Patent Pending

*********************************************

If you are walking and attacked then bend down and find or act like you are picking up a rock. Even if you are on solid pavement act like you are picking up a rock. This might hold them off if they have had rocks thrown at them. If not they will keep comming and do their job. I have hit dogs with rocks and had mixed results. Some dogs are puzzled when hit and sometimes keep comming. Only when you hurt them will they connect the throwing with the actual hit on the doggy body. A dog that has been hurt will know and anytime a motion of throwing is made he will retreat if even for a moment. If he comes back then keep pumping that arm in a fake throwing mode. I have been known to carry rocks in my pockets.

The Thais that have this problem carry a club. This is what I recommend if you know you are venturing into DOG TERRITORY. A collapsible aluminum stick would be a good investment. Just unfold this contaption quickly and show the dog right away what you got. He probally thought you did not have a club and suddenly you got this shinny club. <deleted>. The dogs have been trained with sticks. They may bark but they have respect for THE STICK.

Any type gun(BB, pelet) I would not recommend as the Thais may look down on this. Spray would work but the dogs arent going to know untill they get real close. They have not been trained.

Bitten recently real good but wasnt too concerned about rabies because the dog was defending his turf. Just kept it clean etc. With rabbies out there the behavior of the animal should be looked at real close. If in doubt seek treatment for rabbies.

My favorite cure for a dog in the neighborhood that wants your ass and just will not stop time after time is: Feed him some good leftover food off your table. It is probally the best he ever had. It may take a few times for him to get to make the connection between you and the food. I have used this with great success. The dog is actually waiting for you to feed him. Makes you feel good also.

For an attack without any protection try not to show fear. Raise your arms like you are going to hit the dog. A yell of some sort might be in order. GOOD LUCK.

LLL

[chinthee]

So Chintee, you condone the poisonning of stray dogs?

I condone the safety, welfare and orderly society of people, who last time I checked, were at the top of the food chain. I advocate the rounding up of all stray dogs and putting them into temporary shelters. I advocate making every attempt possible to put them up for adoption. I condone the timely humane euthenizing of troublesome, diseased, or dangerous animals that, however unfortunately, haven't seen the placement into adoptive homes. And, yes, I advocate self-help for those who can't get satisfaction for the safety of their children, etc., even if that includes poisoning.

Last time I checked most civilized societies in farangland, the above is how they operate. Most of us, myself included, love dogs. But, I don't walk around the US, England, France etc., (ok, maybe not France), stepping over pathetic canine street creatures in every village, town and rural area.

However, for some reason, many "freedom-of-dog expression" farangs who land in LOS seem to forget how it works back home, and somehow feel that because dogs run loose everywhere here, that is somehow the natural and correct order. I understand all the religious and other reasons why euthenizing animals will never occur in Thailand. I'm not a dreamer and don't ever expect this to change. I choose to live in Thailand freely and for the most part, I enjoy it. I will stop complaining about this and have adopted the following mantra, that I repeat 4 times daily:

"I accept stray dogs in my life and admit that I am powerless over their superior right to exist in Thailand, no matter how annoying their late night barking, no matter how dangerous their presence is on the roads or sois." I hereby irrevocablly undertake to always understand that these strays will be more important than any rights I feel entitled to."

There, feel better?

[canuckamuck]

Chinthee, I understand your frustration here. I too am a dog lover who is also a realist. If I am at someone’s house and you want to find me, look for their dog. I often spend more time with people’s dogs then with the people. The wife thinks I have a mental problem, I talk to dogs, I play with them, and they follow me around because they like the attention.

But I have no tolerance for aggressive dogs, unless they are confined to the property of their owners. Anything else is incompatible with the reasonable expectation of safety you should expect in modern society. Stray dogs are not evil, they have no reasoning, but they are a health risk and a nuisance. November Rain is doing an awesome job, she has the right answer, and I think there are other people like her doing very difficult work with little recognition.

Having said that, I know she won’t be able to fix the whole problem any time soon. People are attacked daily in Thailand, and very rarely, I believe, are the victims to blame. Dogs have no right to defend anything if they are not owned and at home. Sure it’s their nature, so what. A kid I was looking after yesterday got stung by some bees that built a nest by his house. It was their nature to sting him, but I am going to eliminate them anyways, it is the logical thing to do.

Last year the daughter of my friend was attacked in her own backyard by a dog that had a habit of jumping the fence. At only four years old she did not know how to deal with a dog. Later her dad asked me advice on poisoning because the neighbor refused to do anything about the dog. I told him what I knew, but I never asked how it turned out, he never said anything about it later.

Edited August 3, 2007 by canuckamuck

[mr_hippo]

I am not a dog lover but ammonia spray is going a bit too far. As for a quick squirt of hydraulic brake fluid on a car's bodywork...........

[Richb2004v2]

There are some great comments in this thread.

I liked the comment that Thais might look down on someone using a BB gun. They don’t mind a ferrang being attacked by their dogs, but don’t use a BB gun. Thai logic at work there I guess.

Anyway I had a good dog attack experience today. I was out on my bike doing my usual route. I have only been doing this route for a couple of weeks and there are resident dogs on it, but without any problem: the dogs have so far ignored me. Today I got chased by all the dogs on a stretch of track about 3-4 km long (not all together thankfully). However, this time I was ready and actually enjoyed the experience. It was on a good track and I must have been in exactly the right gear as I managed to put my foot down and speed just out of reach. After the first one I realized that I was going to get it again. The adrenaline rush was great as I peddled like hel_l with a snapping dog a couple of feet behind me. A bunch of Thai kids even cheered me on. I loved it. The difference between this time and my initial complain was that today I was facing either one or two dogs at a time and they were not blocking my way. I can handle one or two. I look forward to the next race.

[shoewah]

I liked the comment that Thais might look down on someone using a BB gun. They don’t mind a ferrang being attacked by their dogs, but don’t use a BB gun. Thai logic at work there I guess.

Thai logic? You have a sad and distorted outlook on Thai people.

I can remember two times when Thai people chased aggressive dogs away for me. These were strangers, people I had never seen or met before. Many times Thais have stopped dogs from barking at me. If you ever need help, you can call out chuay duay (help me).

[geronimo]

I went out on my mountain bike the other day, with the intention of reaching a hill/ small mountain that I can see in the distance from my house. I had no idea how to reach it so just peddled in the general direction. As I got very near the hill I rounded a corner on a very small tarmaced track to be confronted by a group of about six dogs 50 feet in the distance. All the dogs were the same breed and looked fairly formidable. I stopped my bike and had a bit of a stare down assessment. The dogs were barking and looked like they were contemplating a rush. My first thoughts were to give the rest of my outing a miss, but I really wanted to at least try to reach the hill, so decided to proceed. I couldn’t find any stones so hurled a couple of sticks in the direction of the dogs. This seemed to do the trick and cleared them off the track. I put another stick in my right throwing hand and set off. As I got level with where they had disappeared a couple of them rushed out. In the shock I hit my brake; unfortunately it was my front brake. I went over the handlebars and hit the road. This must have given the rest of the dogs a confidence boost as they all ran out barking. There was actually about a dozen or more in total. Luckily I managed to get back on the bike quickly and made good with a throw of the stick. In the temporary reprieve I peddled like hel_l away and up the hel_l.

I was really annoyed that someone could have so many obviously unfriendly dogs running free and able to effectively block the road. I don’t know what the actual chances of the dogs attacking me might be but they got quite close. The house was in a fairly isolated location near the woods and with quite a big garden, but I don’t see that as enough reason.

Riding my bike recently I have encountered this problem several times, but not with so many dogs in one small road.

Has anyone else had similar problems?

Used to ride a bicycle and had similar problems but I sorted it. As soon as it (they) appear, I jumped off my bike and ran, screaming at them. They ran and I kept chasing them, even over a low fence and thru some undergrowth. They never bothered me again. I guarantee that the dogs will not forget you if you do this!!!!!

[Swelters]

Mail delivery people in America used to carry an umbrella and suddenly open it when a dog approached. Not practical on a bike, but could work walking down the soi. I find the rock pickup works and eventually led to a complete truce with one dog. Now he just cocks an eyebrow as I pass.

[threelegcowboy]

For those guys who have thoughts of using poisons you might not have considered what trouble you could get into. Lets suppose that you poison a dog and then it is some how eaten by the local hungry people. You may have the Thai wrath come down on you or a guilt feeling to last a life time.

[CalicoConsulting]

I was bicycling along the Ring Road in Chiang Mai, toward Carrefour from the south, when I saw a chow rise to his feet and notice me. He'd been lying in the shade at a store, where an old man in a rocking chair was still sitting in the shade.

I happen to be a dog lover, even though my avatar says otherwise, and back in the US, I believe my two lovely girl dogs decided the three of us were a pack. I regularly stop strange soi dogs from barking by following Cesar Milan's advice. Yeah yeah, this cat thinks he's a dog whisperer. You can groan if you want.

So the dog approached me, and I honestly felt no fear for him to smell. It was obvious to me he wasn't going to bite. chase, or even bark. I didn't even speed up, and I barely paid attention to him, so there were no challenging looks. He rushed up beside me, silently, and bit my leg. Well, he pinched it. He didn't puncture my pants, which is good because they're my favorite pair. Black Mc jeans. He did, however, give me a bruise. No blood, no breaking of skin, so I just kept on peddling, went shopping, had lunch, and rode home. No disinfectants, no rabies shots, no worries.

That was a very spooky experience. I read that dog so wrong. And the fellow in the rocking chair, meanwhile, didn't react at all. He just kept rocking.

I've ridden by that store quite a few times since then, and the dog isn't there. Maybe he was just visiting.

I'd never dream of carrying a weapon the way some have suggested. If it came down to self defense, sure, I'll throw down, but I haven't felt threatened yet. I've been bicycling around Chiang Mai for about a year, and before that I spent 5 years bicycling around China.

Back in the US, one of my dogs decided to go after a bicyclist, and it was very hard for me to stop laughing long enough to whistle. All my dogs returned when I whistled to them.

What was really weird, though, was the time that I was riding my bicycle and another dog attacked me whilst riding his bicycle.

[Arkady]

Have been attacked by dogs several times while biking and running in Thailand. No magic solution but while biking you can often outrun dogs that come up from behind. For dogs that approach from other directions the safest thing to do seems to dismount and get the bike between the dogs and you. Pick it up and shake it at them first. Then look for stones to throw at them and a stout stick to threaten or whack them with. While on foot you can never outrun them, so you have to stop running and either stand your ground or walk slowly away from them. Immediately look for sticks and stones as weapons to use against them. Most will back off when threatened or hit.

If you get bitten, go to a hospital for rabies jabs and, of course, don't forget to take the dog's head with you for analysis - LOL - as they tell you in the manuals. Deep dog bites have a nasty tendency to become infected due to all the nasty bacteria in their mouths. Irrigate the wound with whatever you can get at the scene. Saline solution is best, soap and water and betadine or just run under a tap but don't use dirty water from a khlong or stream. Then bandage the wound to stop blood loss as best you can and get to an emergency room asap. Dogs have sharp teeth and their jaws can deliver 200 foot pounds per square inch of pressure that can easily rip through muscles and and arteries. When this happened to me a fountain of blood poured out of my arm. I was in shock and just tied a T-shirt round the wound and got a taxi to a hospital. Luckily I was in Bkk and this didn't take long, so they were able to irrigate the wound in time to be able stitch it up. If it takes a long time to get to hospital a deep wound should not be stitiched up due to the high risk of infection that will be much worse if the bacteria is trapped in a closed wound. Actually the same applies to human bites which an equally high risk of infection due to the muck in our mouths.

[CalicoConsulting]

Maybe one of those wooden penises from the other message thread would be effective...

I just saw that I joined Thai Visa Forum one year ago tomorrow. Where does the time go?