Thailand mulls allowing foreigners to buy 75% of condo units

[Felt 35]

On 6/22/2024 at 7:17 AM, Tony M said:

They can probably see a major tax-grab on funds (income) being transferred, by "tax residents", from overseas to purchase condos in Thailand.

 

Why🤔.......would a foreigner with some financial insight invest in anything here under the new tax rules and with the prospect of being taxed for investment and finances in their country of origin as well... 😕

Felt

[scubascuba3]

56 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Reading all the comments I guess I must be the only person happy with this potential change. Should it happen I'll be the first person down the land office changing my company owned condo into my own name. Certainly a positive move for someone in my position.

Only downside you'll end up closing the  company and paying any tax due based on the written down value, as well as usual transfer taxes

[mithunonthenet]

Quote

...oversupply of low and moderately-priced units

Where in Bangkok can Thais find this "oversupply" of low and moderately-priced units?!

[kinyara]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Only downside you'll end up closing the  company and paying any tax due based on the written down value, as well as usual transfer taxes

 

Yes but not too bothered about that one off hit, I know the level of cost involved from a friend who managed to make the change because there was available foreign % ownership in his development. From memory it was around or not excessively different to 1 years company fee. 

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

Yes but not too bothered about that one off hit, I know the level of cost involved from a friend who managed to make the change because there was available foreign % ownership in his development. From memory it was around or not excessively different to 1 years company fee. 

I'm surprised if it's that low but let us know if you do it eventually 

[kinyara]

17 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm surprised if it's that low but let us know if you do it eventually 

I'm going to confirm with him next time I see him. I don't want to get too excited yet but I suppose if it's ever going to happen it's got as much chance as any of changing under the current government and its vested interests, and the difficult economic situation that appears to be hitting on a number of fronts.

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm…. 75% of nothing would still be nothing, i suspect. ?

[scubascuba3]

28 minutes ago, kinyara said:

I'm going to confirm with him next time I see him. I don't want to get too excited yet but I suppose if it's ever going to happen it's got as much chance as any of changing under the current government and its vested interests, and the difficult economic situation that appears to be hitting on a number of fronts.

Also ask the office to tell you if foreign quota becomes available, sometimes they keep it a secret. May be a waiting list

[kinyara]

17 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Also ask the office to tell you if foreign quota becomes available, sometimes they keep it a secret. May be a waiting list

You're reading my mind, we're currently full but in light of current news I already requested confirmation of the current split of the Thai 51% hoping that the Thai individually named are above 25%. Good luck to any foreigner trying to persuade their Thai wife to transfer back to his name if possible !! 😀

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, mithunonthenet said:

Where in Bangkok can Thais find this "oversupply" of low and moderately-priced units?!

Everywhere. Every neighborhood. Brokers will lie, that is just what they do. But, there is desperation out there. Make lowball offers. Offer 60% of asking price. 

[BTB1977]

So they can jack the price up 25% or more. They won't be affordable anymore.  

[john donson]

was that to avoid WHITE GETTO forming like in our home countries?

 

what expat want to be taxed the extra 25-35% now on incoming money to buy a condo ? not me !

[john donson]

23 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

It's always a bad idea to position your housing market

 

Have they? I see units for rent at these places all the time for ridiculous prices, a 35 sq meter unit at the Riveria, for example, going for 20,000. Other places are even more. I wonder what percentage of units are actually rented out.

 

In Bangkok, I live next to Life One Wireless, where 35 sq meter units go for for 25,000 and up. According to Hipflat, out of the total of 501 units, 410 are for rent. I believe it too looking at the windows at night.

 

is hipflat even still valid ? seems very outdated info and prices

 

many short term apartments show a price, if you check them further, the real price now is more than double in reality ...

[Lorry]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Everywhere. Every neighborhood. Brokers will lie, that is just what they do. But, there is desperation out there. Make lowball offers. Offer 60% of asking price. 

Yes, the brokers lie. But they have monopolized the market. 

It used to be easy to deal directly with the owner - nowadays,  all you get is brokers,  brokers,  brokers. Many of them useless,  and all of them interested in a high price. 

So you can't make a lowball offer, they won't forward it to the owner. It doesn't cost the broker anything to wait a couple of years. 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Who writes the headlines? This is misleading when the advantage is to the Thai owners who cannot fill the 51% of the remaining condos. The only good bit of this news is the longer lease term on land.

The increase in the percentage of "owners rights" in a condo building they say will stay the same, how this will be accomplished I expect, as usual, has not yet been worked out.

Don't hold your breath...

[tomacht8]

I would like to buy another condo for 5-6 million, but the unclear tax situation is putting me off. I would have to transfer the money from my foreign account to my Thai account in order to run then the risk of having to pay another 30% tax on it in 2025. How and what evidence I have to provide to prove that my money has already been taxed in my home country is completely unclear. I don't want to go through the bureaucratic hassle and the fight with a local Thai tax officer who may not even know the procedure and only want to get extra taxmoney from me.

[scubascuba3]

43 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

This is misleading when the advantage is to the Thai owners who cannot fill the 51% of the remaining condos.

You don't understand why it's advantageous to foreigners also? win win

[newnative]

8 hours ago, Lorry said:

Yes, the brokers lie. But they have monopolized the market. 

It used to be easy to deal directly with the owner - nowadays,  all you get is brokers,  brokers,  brokers. Many of them useless,  and all of them interested in a high price. 

So you can't make a lowball offer, they won't forward it to the owner. It doesn't cost the broker anything to wait a couple of years. 

 

      Nonsense.  There is no MLS system in Thailand.  In most  cases, a property is listed by multiple agencies to gain as much exposure as possible to potential buyers.   Right now, I have a property listed with probably at least 25 agencies.  Although I provide photos and a description, a number of the biggest agencies have come and taken their own photos of the property, with several going to the expense of sending videographers to do videos of the property.  They then have the work of making the listing for their website, choosing the best photos, writing the description, and putting in all the relevant information, etc.   Some will also do the work of putting postings on social media, such as Facebook.

     These agencies have done all this work on their dime knowing that the property will also likely be listed by their competitors.   Now, with each agency wth the listing, it's a race to find a buyer for the property and get the commission before some other agency gets there first.  

    So, once again, nonsense to say that an agency will not pass along a low offer but, instead, as you say, 'wait a couple years' for a better offer to come along.  Totally laughable--the property will be long gone in a couple years, sold by one of the other agencies.

     With the agents I know, they live, as I do, by 'the future is now'.  Not waiting your 'a couple years' for something that may or may not happen.  Will they waste their time, and the seller's time, passing along a 2MB offer on a 10MB property?  Probably not.  But, any other offer that has the remotest chance of working?  Yes.

     

[Lorry]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

Will they waste their time, and the seller's time, passing along a 2MB offer on a 10MB property?  Probably not.  But, any other offer that has the remotest chance of working?  Yes.

Not my experience,  but ymmv.

I would very much prefer not to be forced to deal with this useless lying bunch of greedy middlemen. It used to be much easier to deal with owners directly. 

[newnative]

41 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Not my experience,  but ymmv.

I would very much prefer not to be forced to deal with this useless lying bunch of greedy middlemen. It used to be much easier to deal with owners directly. 

    What's stopping you from dealing with an owner directly?  My property is listed with agencies but that doesn't mean you can't deal with me directly if you prefer to not use an agent.  We sold our last condo directly to a buyer who saw our ad posted on the condo bulletin board.

[Lorry]

6 minutes ago, newnative said:

    What's stopping you from dealing with an owner directly?  My property is listed with agencies but that doesn't mean you can't deal with me directly if you prefer to not use an agent.  We sold our last condo directly to a buyer who saw our ad posted on the condo bulletin board.

The condo bulletin boards mostly disappeared. Of course,  when they are still there it's where I look.

Juristic offices have become very unhelpful,  guess why.

 

I have had only good experiences when dealing with owners - with agents,  not so much

Edited Monday at 04:12 AM by Lorry

[samtam]

On 6/23/2024 at 8:51 AM, lapamita said:

Our Condo is run fully by foreigners.

The Board are foreigners

The CEO

..you can take over the board and take any juristic ..if you find the majority in meeting, have nothing to do with ownership

..hard fight to take over, our condo get it 5 years ago  with policecase and civilcase and lawyers

..now we have a full shrinking fund compare to before and a surplus on maintenace since 2 years

 I hope it's a sinking fund and not a shrinking fund!

[samtam]

On 6/23/2024 at 11:40 AM, wensiensheng said:

Possibly the first 50% of foreign owned units sold come with a vote, the other 50% don’t. If someone sells a voting unit then the new buyer goes to the back of the voting queue and the first in line in the 25% non voting unit, becomes a voter.

 

who will actually keep track of this method, or your method, I have no idea. 

 

On 6/23/2024 at 11:49 AM, wensiensheng said:

Pick is the word. He certainly wasn’t who the people voted for 

 

23 hours ago, newnative said:

     I don't think that is how it will work.  As I said before, I think it will be a weighted vote.  Every condo owner will have a vote, but the foreign quota owners will have their votes adjusted so the total percentage of their vote does not equal more than 49%, to maintain the 51% Thai control.

    Realizing that it wll be much more complicated, here is a very simple example:  A condo project with 4 equal-size condos, 3 owned in foreign quota and 1 in Thai name.  The 75% foreign quota limit has been reached.  If the Thai decided to sell his condo, it could not be moved to foreign quota.

     To maintain Thai control in the 4-unit project, the voting will be weighted.  The Thai owner's vote will have a weight of 51%.  The 3 foreign quota owners will have a weighted vote of 16.33% each.  Even if the 3 voted in favor of a proposal, they would still lose 49% to 51%, if the Thai owner opposed the proposal.   

      As I said, just the simplest example possible.  In reality, it will be much more complicated, with condo ownership sqm percentages to be figured in, in addition to units held in company name.  I definitely do not want to be the one tasked with figuring all that out before the AGM!

 

9 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Who writes the headlines? This is misleading when the advantage is to the Thai owners who cannot fill the 51% of the remaining condos. The only good bit of this news is the longer lease term on land.

The increase in the percentage of "owners rights" in a condo building they say will stay the same, how this will be accomplished I expect, as usual, has not yet been worked out.

Don't hold your breath...

 

I think this headline is yet another in a long line of brain farts emanating from this ridiculous government. Nothing is ever thought through to its critical conclusion.

 

If this announcement was intended to attract foreign buyers it will have the opposite effect, when there is a lack of clarity about voting rights in a property you own 100%. The current 49%/51% ownership makes little or no difference in voting at AGMs. At our AGMs we barely meet the quota (30%) for the AGM to proceed. Thereafter, only 3 or 4 owners attend, the other 25% are proxy holders for the family that owns that percentage.

Edited Monday at 06:46 AM by samtam

[John Drake]

On 6/23/2024 at 6:23 AM, Gknrd said:

This is for the Chinese trying to get their money out of China not Westerners.

 

Which is why they don't mind paying inflated prices. They do this wherever in the world they go, Canada, US, UK, you name it. They launder money through property purchases and at the same time make homeownership or property ownership costs so fantastically high that it is impossible for native citizens to buy.

[John Drake]

On 6/23/2024 at 2:11 PM, newnative said:

but the foreign quota owners will have their votes adjusted so the total percentage of their vote does not equal more than 49%, to maintain the 51% Thai control.

 

Seems to alter the condition of sale, doesn't it? You had one, now you have 2/3rds? I'd want my money back.

[newnative]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Seems to alter the condition of sale, doesn't it? You had one, now you have 2/3rds? I'd want my money back.

    Color me wrong regarding my previous postings where I thought the foreign quota owner votes would be diluted to accommodate the new owners while also maintaining the 49% vote.  Instead, with projects where the foreign quota already is at 49%, apparently the new foreign quota owners will get no vote at all at the AGM.  I don't think this is a good solution and I believe it's very unfair for some owners to not have a vote at all.   I would rather have a diluted vote, even if I am an owner from the original 49%, rather than see some owners with no vote at all.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 6/24/2024 at 1:45 PM, samtam said:

Nothing is ever thought through to its critical conclusion.

Your comment above is often the subject of my own posts. It is a constant problem here no matter who is in government. It seems that many potential foreign buyers are confused by the "percentage
ownership" of condos when they will only get a short lease (less than 99 years is one step from renting).

Land ownership is virtually impossible or done through dummy companies and the like. For foreigners buying as an investment in Thailand is not worth the risk.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:38 AM, scubascuba3 said:

You don't understand why it's advantageous to foreigners also? win win

Which means what?

Goody, more foreigners will be ripped off?

I guess you are a realtor, or a condo developer.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Which means what?

Goody, more foreigners will be ripped off?

I guess you are a realtor, or a condo developer.

it means a foreigner can buy a condo in a older better value condo block in their name, newer condo projects are over priced and are mainly for tourists who think it's an investment

[newnative]

7 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Your comment above is often the subject of my own posts. It is a constant problem here no matter who is in government. It seems that many potential foreign buyers are confused by the "percentage
ownership" of condos when they will only get a short lease (less than 99 years is one step from renting).

Land ownership is virtually impossible or done through dummy companies and the like. For foreigners buying as an investment in Thailand is not worth the risk.

      The 'percentage ownership of condos' has nothing to do with leases.  When you buy a condo in foreign quota, Thai name, or company name, you are normally not buying a condo with a lease, unless it is in a condo project that has been built on leased land.  Easily avoided if you want to own a condo without a lease, which I always do.