Why are so many foreigners residing in Thailand problematic types?

[fredwiggy]

14 minutes ago, Smilin in Thailand said:

The meditative peacefulness of native Thai's, no doubt a result of their practice of Buddhism, is one of the attractions.

 

I think that is why many choose to live here.

 

Perhaps if the poster realized the virtue of this they would not have posted a generalized prejudice rant on a public forum.

 

Rather like walking into a Buddhist temple and leaving ones trash on the Butsudan for all to see.
 

Spend one month looking at local news daily about crime, monks going wild, groups of 5 chasing 1 down the street armed with sticks and other things, and you'll see practice is exactly what should be happening here but is lost by the wayside because of poverty, corruption and officials breaking the laws regularly. Most come here hoping they will live in a peaceful country and some get that, but what goes on daily here that you don't see would amaze even the locals. There are indeed people who visit Thailand and trash areas and hurt others and they don't belong anywhere, let alone here.

[scubascuba3]

11 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

I'm sure you know this already, but Pattaya draws in a large contingency of a certain type of middle-aged, macho-type character. So the fact that they have big egos, and equally as big insecurities, answers the question as to why they bother.  

wig guys tend to be the elderly variety

[RSD1]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Spend one month looking at local news daily about crime, monks going wild, groups of 5 chasing 1 down the street armed with sticks and other things, and you'll see practice is exactly what should be happening here but is lost by the wayside because of poverty, corruption and officials breaking the laws regularly. Most come here hoping they will live in a peaceful country and some get that, but what goes on daily here that you don't see would amaze even the locals. There are indeed people who visit Thailand and trash areas and hurt others and they don't belong anywhere, let alone here.

 

It's the garbage in, garbage out scenario. When those in power ensure that the majority remain easily influenced by icons and lacking in education it's what you get. It's more about the influence of the political and social structures than any inherent genetic traits. People largely reflect the systems that have molded them. You could say the same about Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Vietnam, Turkey and a few others. 

[RSD1]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

wig guys tend to be the elderly variety

I don't hang around Pattaya, but I've seen them of all ages in Thailand. 

[theblether]

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Just ont take everything seriously you read here. Having hair doesn't make you sexy, and do not take it personally. 

 

Read what I wrote in my reply.

 

Being sexy have nothing to with hair if you got every other check in the box

 

Did you just tell me not to take everything I read here seriously? Me??  

 

45 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

All bald men think thy look like Jason Statham but in reality look like the guy from Benny Hill show

🤣🤣

 

Aye but as long as you check the rest of the boxes you'll be fine.

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

55 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Do you think there are a disproportionally high number of 'bad' foreigners getting up to no good in comparison to the number of Thai's getting up to 'no good' ??

That isn't the point, is it. The topic is about foreigners who come here and misbehave. Locals is a completely separate issue. And you can make your same statement about locals in many countries. 
 

I've never seen any foreign riffraff in Spain. But I don't ever go to any of the expat retiree beach towns when I'm there. I've also not seen many in other parts of Asia outside of SE Asia like Japan.
 

As you said, Thailand draws a particular type because of socio-economics, the nightlife/girls, the beaches, lax visa policies, graft/corruption, availability of cheap alcohol and drugs, but it's also a place where fugitives seem to be able to find safe sanctuary. And it's been like this for over 50 years since at least the seventies. 

 

Thats my point, or rather my question - Is 'what we see in Thailand' disproportionate? or is it a just a cross section of normal society ?

 

Read the news from many of our home countries and it could be argued that there is a significant subset of 'bad folk' that we have moved away from... 

 

 

[theblether]

20 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

I'm sure you know this already, but Pattaya draws in a large contingency of a certain type of middle-aged, macho-type character. So the fact that they have big egos, and equally as big insecurities, answers the question as to why they bother.  

 

That's true but the city was buit for that type so the sanctimonious temple worshippers should just stay out of it. 

 

In fact, a high percentage of the tourist infrastructure in the country was built for sex tourists. 

 

Maybe they should start banning the sanctimonious from the Kingdom. Picture immigration at Suv. 

 

"Are you here to interfere with the nickers of Isaan Rice farmers daughters?" 

 

"No, I'm here on a temple tour." 

 

"Entry denied. Weirdo." 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

That may well be the case now but in the 1960's and before many expatriate Brits were of the patrician or upper middle class and had made a deliberate choice to live in Siam.There was certainly no question of them lacking confidence or not being thoroughly at home in British society.They were also at home in upper class and highly educated Thai circles.They had nothing in common with the current British Pattaya oriented expat community - whom they would have regarded as an alien life form.

 

 

Agreed.

[wmlc]

Normally, the mods would have locked this thread down already due to it provoking arguments. However, that ship has sailed as the post has now been highlighted on the Thaigher's Facebook page. Therefore, I will give my two cents. 

 

The reason it appears foreigners are here causing problems is because of the language and culture barriers. Its this way in every country that attracts a lot of expats. Expats would be a lot less problematic here if they learnt the language. That would take care of 80% of these issues. 

 

Then, as there are tons of tourists that don't understand Thai, that alone makes the problem seem worse than it really is.  In summary, the main issue that makes the OP think like this is communication problems. After 15 years here, I have seen everything. In hind-sight, looking back, most if not all issues were caused by bad communication and misunderstandings.

 

Then there is Pattaya. This is a different ball game all together. If the OP only has experience in Pattaya and that'e what fueled this post, I would say to the OP that they need to spend time in other parts of Thailand to get the true picture. Pattaya is like it own little play ground for hoodlums and trouble makers due to obvious reasons. Just like any red light district. Things happen out of the ordinary and all people, foreigners and Thais alike act abnormally. 

 

 

Why does this post bother so many? I bet the ones it really bothers actually are the ones acting in the way the OP described. Otherwise, why would it bother them to read someone else's opinion? 

 

The Thai media have also jumped on this bad wagon. There are foreigners everyday in the news being named and shamed for their bad behavior. The bottom line is that the climate towards foreigners is becoming more and more unstable these days.

 

One thing that expats need to understand is that we are guests in Thailand. SO, no matter what you say, no matter what you think, life will go on the way the Thais decide and not on what we decide. If you don't like it, there are plenty of flights out of Thailand. Believe me, the Thais don't care how much money you spend or think you spend here. There is always another foreigner to replace you. Any one foreigner is nothing special. If you break up with your Thai GF because you think she is not a good person, guess what? She will just find a replacement for you online in a flash. You are nothing special. Foreigners in Thailand are a dime a dozen.    

 

[gargamon]

Thailand is one of those “end of the road“ places like key west, alaska, etc where some who have few other options due to crime, interpersonal screwups, financial hardships, etc seem to end up. They still have whatever issues they had that caused them to leave their homeland so of course they're still difficult. And of course the people here avoiding wars in their home country don't help. 

 

Probably the reason there's so many “falling off their balconies“ deaths too.

[RSD1]

21 minutes ago, wmlc said:

Normally, the mods would have locked this thread down already due to it provoking arguments.

Really? Isn't that nearly what every post in this section of the forum is based on? It's a section for sharing a wide range of ideas and perspectives, often controversial, and argumentative topics. The whole point of "The Pub" is to let it all unwind and allow it provoke arguments as long as they don't completely denigrate someone or some thing. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

I'm sure you know this already, but Pattaya draws in a large contingency of a certain type of middle-aged, macho-type character. So the fact that they have big egos, and equally as big insecurities, answers the question as to why they bother.  

And there was me thinking it was just some lonely guys looking for a bit of sex and the female companionship their home countries governments denied them.

[save the frogs]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

female companionship their home countries governments denied them

wow, your govt denied you female companionship?

even orwell didnt go that far. 

[JimTripper]

I don't notice much except when I was packed in close with them in Pattaya. Undesirables were kind of unavoidable because it's a much smaller city and not as many people, so I would get approached or come into contact with them and kind of be "stuck" there in a strange way in that situation.

 

In other cities, there's much more "space" so I don't notice their problems. Bangkok is fine, I just don't engage people who I'm not interested in knowing and they get lost in the crowd. I just step away and they are gone.

 

As to why they are here, I stopped caring. Not my problem. My old theory years ago was it was people who were running from something in their home countries. In other words, if someone was very successful in their native country they would not move away. No need too, since everything you desire is available no matter where you are if you can afford it, with just some small exceptions. I include myself in this category, unfortunately.

 

Another theory I used to entertain was that the undesirable behavior was enabled by the new culture. People who were morally restrained in their prior country came into a Buddhist country where police enforcement of conduct and restraints on behavior were not as enforced or expected (or at least not in a way a newcomer would understand).

 

Over time, these individuals develop a lack of boundries. For example, ongoing alcoholism or sexual behavior (like the utilization of prostitutes) that society just ignores and nobody says it's not acceptable. It just gets worse with time. After many years some people can't reintegrate back into their countries or families because the moral behavior that was there before has broken down.

 

Others have a strength of character that ensbles them to maintain who they were back in their native countries. They may maintain their original religion, values, dress code, etc. They don't "go native".

 

This was an issue with early explorers and colonization. There were always a few who lost themselves in the new culture, while others maintained who they were. It's hard to say why some do and others change.

[ravip]

On 6/29/2024 at 3:53 PM, 123Stodg said:

I can't help but notice all the negative aspects about many of the expats I've come across in Thailand. It's disheartening to see that so many foreigners seem to fall into one of several categories: unpleasant, criminal, or otherwise problematic.

 

Firstly, the number of rude and disrespectful expats is staggering. It's as if some people left their manners at the airport. From obnoxious behavior in public to a complete lack of respect for Thai culture and people, these individuals don't add anything positive to the backdrop. It's also embarrassing and frustrating to witness. How hard is it to learn a few basic phrases in Thai, be a bit more polite, or follow simple cultural norms? Instead, we see loud, self-entitled behavior that screams, "I don't care about your country or your customs."

 

Secondly, the criminal element among some expats is alarming. Every other day, it seems like there's news of another foreigner involved in drugs, fraud, violence, some form of exploitation, or other illegal activities. It's as if Thailand has become a base for these unsavory characters. This not only tarnishes the reputation of the expat community but also undermines the safety and tranquility that many other expats came here seeking. Why should locals trust us foreigners when they see so many of our compatriots behaving so disgracefully?

 

Another troubling aspect is the noticeable lack of respect for local laws among some expats. Whether it's overstaying visas, working illegally, or engaging in shady business practices, these actions show a blatant disregard for the rules and regulations of the country that's hosting them. This kind of behavior only serves to alienate foreigners further from the local community.

 

The arrogance and superiority displayed by some expats is also deeply troubling. Many act as if they are better than the locals, displaying condescending attitudes and constantly complaining about Thailand and its people while refusing to adapt. This creates a toxic environment and further damages the relationship between expats and locals.

 

To add to the negativity, many expats seem perpetually angry, unfriendly, and dissatisfied with their lives in Thailand. It's baffling to see such resentment and unappreciative attitudes in people who have chosen to live in a foreign country. They complain endlessly about everything from the lack of safety to the frustrations with local customs, creating a cloud of negativity that affects everyone around them. Instead of appreciating the unique experiences and opportunities Thailand offers, these individuals seem to be stuck in a loop of dissatisfaction and bitterness, making it harder for other foreigners, who genuinely respect the country, to maintain good relations with locals.

 

Finally, there's the issue of health and hygiene. Some long-term expats neglect their health, often seen as very overweight, poorly groomed, and suffering from lifestyle-related illnesses due to poor diet, lack of physical activity and excessive alcohol consumption. This not only affects their quality of life but also perpetuates negative stereotypes about expats being unhealthy and unkempt.

 

Why is all this happening? Is it the lax visa regulations or the perception that Thailand is an easy place to hide that draws these types in? Whatever the reason, it's just sad and very disheartening.

You are 100% correct.

By been so frank, you are bound to antagonize many, who will fit into those profiles!

 

Some humans feel that they are superior to others just because they have more money than the other... while some others,  just pretend they are well off and try to throw their weight around. Some even think, that Thailand 'exist' because of their money/spending!

 

Most times, these are the characters that hit the headlines for the wrong reason and gives genuine foreigner also a bad reputation.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, theblether said:

 

Did you just tell me not to take everything I read here seriously? Me??  

 

🤣🤣

 

Aye but as long as you check the rest of the boxes you'll be fine.

Getting older is not a pretty sight, Im still young enough to know whats coming, 

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

All bald men think thy look like Jason Statham but in reality look like the guy from Benny Hill show

As said, with hair or not, it wouldnt help much. Getting older, is an horrible things, even worse for the less gifted ones. 

[jts-khorat]

On 6/29/2024 at 12:28 PM, save the frogs said:

Good post. Give this man a nobel prize for literature.

 

You mean, ChatGPT. But he is not wholly wrong with what he is saying.

Truth is, however, that back here in Germany it is also full of unfriendly and obnoxious people, so I believe we really seeing a reflection of that and expats are neither more criminal nor more negative than right here.

 

As negativity sells, also here on Thai Visa, we also have a much better chance to hear about each little transgression, so this adds to the negative echo chamber.

 

If I remember correctly my time in Thailand in the late 1990s, these people were certainly around. We called them "characters" or Thai originals", and in those days it added to the charme of the place, because you only heard about their antics every once in a while, if you developed common acquaintances.

[save the frogs]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

You mean, ChatGPT. But he is not wholly wrong with what he is saying.

so where is ChatGPT getting its information from?

[RSD1]

12 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

If I remember correctly my time in Thailand in the late 1990s, these people were certainly around. We called them "characters" or Thai originals", and in those days it added to the charme of the place, because you only heard about their antics every once in a while, if you developed common acquaintances

I think the types being referred to here are different. The ones back in the 90s were indeed characters, less troublesome and a bit more eclectic, odd and interesting. At that time you had to be a bit more intrepid to be able to navigate a place like Thailand. Now any moke with a smartphone, Google maps, and a few links about nightlife can show up in Thailand and start making a big mess of things. 

[RSD1]

13 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

so where is ChatGPT getting its information from?

so where is a good place to buy eggs?

[theblether]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

I don't notice much except when I was packed in close with them in Pattaya. Undesirables were kind of unavoidable because it's a much smaller city and not as many people, so I would get approached or come into contact with them and kind of be "stuck" there in a strange way in that situation.

 

In other cities, there's much more "space" so I don't notice their problems. Bangkok is fine, I just don't engage people who I'm not interested in knowing and they get lost in the crowd. I just step away and they are gone.

 

As to why they are here, I stopped caring. Not my problem. My old theory years ago was it was people who were running from something in their home countries. In other words, if someone was very successful in their native country they would not move away. No need too, since everything you desire is available no matter where you are if you can afford it, with just some small exceptions. I include myself in this category, unfortunately.

 

Another theory I used to entertain was that the undesirable behavior was enabled by the new culture. People who were morally restrained in their prior country came into a Buddhist country where police enforcement of conduct and restraints on behavior were not as enforced or expected (or at least not in a way a newcomer would understand).

 

Over time, these individuals develop a lack of boundries. For example, ongoing alcoholism or sexual behavior (like the utilization of prostitutes) that society just ignores and nobody says it's not acceptable. It just gets worse with time. After many years some people can't reintegrate back into their countries or families because the moral behavior that was there before has broken down.

 

Others have a strength of character that ensbles them to maintain who they were back in their native countries. They may maintain their original religion, values, dress code, etc. They don't "go native".

 

This was an issue with early explorers and colonization. There were always a few who lost themselves in the new culture, while others maintained who they were. It's hard to say why some do and others change.

 

Excellent comment. 

 

Every society has socially dysfunctional people. By dint, these are the types that fly 5000 miles in pursuit of a new life and forget that no matter where they go, their personality disorder follows. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

wow, your govt denied you female companionship?

even orwell didnt go that far. 

Your government doesn't provide women with welfare, and fake jobs, and free housing?

 

I'm always amazed that so many western men don't understand their governments are providing everything free, that women traditionally obtained from their men in exchange for sex and companionship.

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, ravip said:

By been so frank, you are bound to antagonize many, who will fit into those profiles!

That may be true in some cases, but it absolutely positively does not apply to me! I can honestly say that not a single criticism the OP leveled applies to me. Going down the list:

 

Never rude or disrespectful or entitled. Absolutely have never been involved in any criminal activity in Thailand. Safe driver, law abiding, never drink and drive, etc. Do not project arrogance, condescension, dissatisfaction, or unfriendliness. Studied Thai for 9.5 years before moving to rural village 21 years ago. Consider myself to be a model citizen in my community. My health is very good, I exercise regularly and am physically active. Do not smoke and have not had a drop of alcohol in over eight years.

 

What triggered me was the suspiciously AI generated writing style, and the smug sense of superiority that the op conveyed. What I especially found offensive and derisively hypocritical was learning that the OP made these comments while indulging in the pleasures red-light districts have to offer. Does he think just because he hit the gym for a few months ahead of his sex-tourism vacation, got a $100 hair cut, bought a new wardrobe, spritzed himself with cologne, carries a pocket phrase book, and knows how to say 'hong nam yuu tii nai, krap?' that makes him superior to the guy sitting a bar stool one down from him as he ogles the go-go dancers trying to decide which one he will bar-fine? If so, he needs to think again. They're both doing the same thing, and just because his armpits are better scrubbed, he's kidding himself thinking he's more culturally sensitive and respectful of Thai culture because of it.

 

[Maitdjai]

 

What long-term-stayers are thinking, is getting more and more secondary. You might "invest" half a million Dollars in the Lalaland-
"Mickey-Mouse-Casino"-economy. And even then, you're not a "Mr. Important". You can circumvent some inconveniences,
even work (Lol) "in paradise", if you choose one of the several, but more or less identical "milking" visa schemes.
So, don't worry too much about bad-behaving fellow expats. Some get bitter, some get grumpy, some are super smart, some are going home in their underwear, and some are joining the Pattaya "Flying Club". But always replaceable. Why?
Maybe it has something to do with the expat communities itself.

Anyway, the momentary "golden calve" is the short-term "tourist", and his wallet.
No matter where he comes from. Who is preferred at the moment? China, Russia, India...
This is subject to change, here and then, depending on the actual state of mind of the powers to be.
They're coming from 14 to x days, spending their money (obviously not enough anymore, so there is a need for more), and leaving.
If their bad behavior isn't too serious, sometimes even if it was, any artificial "outrage" calms down, and diminishes quickly.
 

What are "superior" expats doing?
They're jumping on the bandwagon, befouling their own nest and those of other nations. The so-deeply "concerned" crying of the OP is pathetic, as the ridiculous, endlessly repeated calls for deportations, banning, or long-term jail sentences in whatever context, by members of the sanctimonious "good guy" expat faction. How do they come to that?
By holding a self-issued "Thai Culture" certificate?

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Your government doesn't provide women with welfare, and fake jobs, and free housing?

 

I'm always amazed that so many western men don't understand their governments are providing everything free, that women traditionally obtained from their men in exchange for sex and companionship.

getting married in the west is like gambling at the black jack table in sihanoukville.

 

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

getting married in the west is like gambling at the black jack table in sihanoukville.

 

 

You ended up with a pair of queens ?

[JimTripper]

 

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You ended up with a pair of queens ?

Write something important other then these stupid one line retorts. A book, a novel, anything...

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

getting married in the west is like gambling at the black jack table in sihanoukville.

 

 

 

You are actually right 

[RSD1]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You ended up with a pair of queens ?

 @bob smith does twice per day. And his favorite card is 6/1.