Using an overseas Debit Card to minimise paying tax for those of us staying over 180 days

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is why the U.K. doesn’t have worldwide taxation 

There are only 2 countries that have actual world wide taxation 

and as I have said it’s unlikely that Thailand will join the club of 2

Both you or I only need Thailand to adopt taxation scope similar to the UK and as far as we are both concerned, that will constitute worldwide income, for us. My understanding is that Thailand is more interested in adopting the UK model, rather than the US model. That means we will both have to adopt the UK or Thailand for tax residency, which in turn means that all of our income will be taxable, somewhere.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Money generated in a year you are not tax resident is not assessable income whenever it is remitted, so you only need to be non resident in the year you sell your house and make the capital gain, SO ONLY 1 year as a nonresident is required.

 

if you are a nonresident you have no assessable income irrespective of when or how it was generated 

 

I think we're confusing ourselves with all the potential what-if's, and the "whenever" in the statement makes this incorrect.

 

The new interpretation of the existing law has changed this for all income earned after Jan 01 2024.  Once you become a tax resident and remit any income earned after that magical date, it becomes assessable. 

 

Income from 2025-2028 while non-resident, for example, doesn't become exempt from assessability if remitted in 2029 while tax resident.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I think we're confusing ourselves with all the potential what-if's, and the "whenever" in the statement makes this incorrect.

 

The new interpretation of the existing law has changed this for all income earned after Jan 01 2024.  Once you become a tax resident and remit any income earned after that magical date, it becomes assessable. 

 

Income from 2025-2028 while non-resident, for example, doesn't become exempt from assessability if remitted in 2029 while tax resident.

You have bad information and one if the tax directors of one of the big 4 does not agree with your flawed logic

[NoDisplayName]

11 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is why the U.K. doesn’t have worldwide taxation 

There are only 2 countries that have actual world wide taxation 

and as I have said it’s unlikely that Thailand will join the club of 2

 

That's what I thought, too, until a couple weeks ago when corrected.  China also has a worldwide taxation system in place for tax residents (>180 days) since 2018.

 

But those danged evil commies have a clever trick up their malign sleeves!.  For ex-pats, it only comes into effect after 6 years of continuous tax residency, and the clock resets if you leave the country for 30+ days.

 

 

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I think we're confusing ourselves with all the potential what-if's, and the "whenever" in the statement makes this incorrect.

 

The new interpretation of the existing law has changed this for all income earned after Jan 01 2024.  Once you become a tax resident and remit any income earned after that magical date, it becomes assessable. 

 

Income from 2025-2028 while non-resident, for example, doesn't become exempt from assessability if remitted in 2029 while tax resident.

I think you have misunderstood. 

[jerrymahoney]

On 8/7/2024 at 9:16 AM, 4MyEgo said:

oh and yes, as soon as the money hits the in-laws accounts, my wife can make an internet transfer from the bank (newly set up from the in-laws accounts)

In bank parlance that is sometimes called a 'mule account':

 

A mule account refers to a bank account that is used to facilitate illegal activities such as money laundering and fraudulent transactions. It serves as an intermediary between the criminal organization and the illicit funds, making it difficult for law enforcement agencies to trace the money flow.

 

https://www.tookitaki.com/glossary/mule-account

 

I will guess some banks have internal controls to watch out for the above described in-&-out type activity.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9 by jerrymahoney

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You have bad information and one if the tax directors of one of the big 4 does not agree with your flawed logic

 

I don't agree with his disagreement.

 

A newly-retired ex-pat tax resident in 2029 will be liable for tax on income earned between Jan 01 2024 and Dec 31 2028, if that income is remitted in 2029.

 

Any income earned after Dec 31 2023 will be assessable for tax residents if/when remitted to Thailand, regardless of tax residency when earned.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I don't agree with his disagreement.

 

A newly-retired ex-pat tax resident in 2029 will be liable for tax on income earned between Jan 01 2024 and Dec 31 2028, if that income is remitted in 2029.

 

Any income earned after Dec 31 2023 will be assessable for tax residents if/when remitted to Thailand, regardless of tax residency when earned.

"Income from 2025-2028 while non-resident, for example, doesn't become exempt from assessability if remitted in 2029 while tax resident".

 

If you are not resident for tax purposes, your income (earned outside of Thailand) is not assessable in Thailand, for those years, regardless of when it is remitted.

[NoDisplayName]

Just now, chiang mai said:

"Income from 2025-2028 while non-resident, for example, doesn't become exempt from assessability if remitted in 2029 while tax resident".

 

If you are not resident for tax purposes, your income (earned outside of Thailand) is not assessable in Thailand, for those years, regardless of when it is remitted.

 

I hope you are correct!

 

Perhaps I am now confused from reading too much of these threads.

[goldenbrwn1]

On 8/6/2024 at 2:21 PM, advancebooking said:

I think a lot of (honest) farang are worried about the new tax laws bc they were raised in a nanny state. They do not understand that TIT. The revenue dept's in your local province where you live have NO idea. They cannot even effectively tax their own citizens.

i have noticed with my Thai family and friends they are again buying gold ( not that they stopped but just a lot more) as a store of value like they used to do. 

[CMBob]

On 8/7/2024 at 11:07 AM, Presnock said:

........Then when departing Thailand one will need a slip of paper stamped by the local RD that all necessary taxes have been paid prior to the IO stamping one out of the country or extending the stay of a possible Tax-resident....

Oh, come on, where'd ya come up with that notion?  So an expat who goes twice a year to Vietnam and a couple of times to Laos is going to have to obtain and show 4 Revenue Department clearance documents on those side trips? And somebody who's either not been in Thailand 180 days or who hasn't remitted a dime into Thailand during that year is not going to get stamped out of (and leave) the country without RD clearance?  Hardly.

[connda]

Have any of you posting this fear mongering actually worked out your personal exemptions or looked at your Dual-Tax Agreement from your home countries?  I see a whole lot of fear and very little thinking.

[nickmondo]

On 8/6/2024 at 5:41 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I am looking at ways to minimise paying tax (legally) from money remitted to Thailand from abroad.

 

A friend of mine told me to get a WISE Debit Card as I am with WISE and usually remit my overseas funds that way, but things have changed now.

 

I haven't remitted anything this year and am returning to my home country shortly, so am thinking about ordering one online and picking it up at my home land address.

 

I am thinking if I use my WISE Debit Card to shop, I may attract a fee of 5% at some shops here in the LOS even thought there is no fee charged to the seller, and maybe if I try to take some cash out from the ATM I will get charged a fee of 200-220 on 20,000 baht and then WISE charge me ?

 

Not sure how it all works, so would be very interest to know what members with a WISE Debit Card think and how they use this card and what charges if any they get charged and which stores charge a fee, e.g. Lotus, Big C, Makro, PTT etc etc, i.e. if they accept this debit card, and what charges for withdrawing Thai baht from the ATM's, and if it's only here or at WISE's end as well.

 

 

all of those questions can be answered by Wise, then you will get fact, not fiction

[Presnock]

8 minutes ago, CMBob said:

Oh, come on, where'd ya come up with that notion?  So an expat who goes twice a year to Vietnam and a couple of times to Laos is going to have to obtain and show 4 Revenue Department clearance documents on those side trips? And somebody who's either not been in Thailand 180 days or who hasn't remitted a dime into Thailand during that year is not going to get stamped out of (and leave) the country without RD clearance?  Hardly.

Right, immigration would definitely need more involvement.  Easy to compute number of days a year and would only need to see the beginning date prior to 180 days if in the latter part of the year.  I don't think it is going to happen just like I don't believe everyone will be affected in a negative manner once they govt settles down on all the visas.  Right now they are concerned with their own well being in elected or selected for certain  positions and trying to find money to do all that they promised prior to the election.  

[Presnock]

8 minutes ago, connda said:

Have any of you posting this fear mongering actually worked out your personal exemptions or looked at your Dual-Tax Agreement from your home countries?  I see a whole lot of fear and very little thinking.

I have zero fears and yes I know exactly what my obligations are.  

[Andycoops]

Wise is only a card option for those who visit and have a non Thai address.

 

I cannot get a Wise card because I am a non UK resident and live permanently in Thailand.

 

Wise currently don't offer their card to people who live in Thailand.

[ross163103]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:27 PM, rhodie said:

Just send the money to your wife's account as a gift. No tax on gifts. 

 

Exactly what I'll be doing! She's such a good wife she deserves a LOT of gifts! LOL/TIT!

[Lancelot01]

On 8/6/2024 at 5:44 PM, Cameroni said:

You will be charged 200 if you withdraw with the Wise card. However it is the best option. Think of transferring money to your bank account. Much more expensive if you pay tax. Wise is the way to go.

 

I think with Wise you get a monthly allowance ie maximum amoun you can withraw for free. After that you pay fees, but very small fees. It is on their website.

Wise only allows me GBP200 per month without their charges, more than that will attract their normal cash advance charges.

[newbee2022]

A bit stupid. According to the imminent law you will be taxed with all your income and assets wherever it comes from. It would be illegal and a fraud to hide your income. Also internationally the Thai bank could easily find out where your many was deducted from

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I hope you are correct!

 

Perhaps I am now confused from reading too much of these threads.

 

Yes, I believe you are correct.

I had an intertubes brian fart!

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Income from 2025-2028 while non-resident, for example, doesn't become exempt from assessability if remitted in 2029 while tax resident

TRD's first set of FAQs say otherwise. 

Please read Question 9 one more time. 

[spidermike007]

There's a very simple solution for those who are married to a Thai woman. I believe that I had read that there was somewhere between 2 and 5 million baht per year that was allowed to be sent to your wife, and that money would be tax-exempt. 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

That's what I thought, too, until a couple weeks ago when corrected.  China also has a worldwide taxation system in place for tax residents (>180 days) since 2018.

That is not full world wide taxation, it is a modified restricted version 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Perhaps I am now confused from reading too much of these threads.

Your posts strongly suggest that your analysis of your confusion is accurate 🤗

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, CMBob said:

Oh, come on, where'd ya come up with that notion?  So an expat who goes twice a year to Vietnam and a couple of times to Laos is going to have to obtain and show 4 Revenue Department clearance documents on those side trips? And somebody who's either not been in Thailand 180 days or who hasn't remitted a dime into Thailand during that year is not going to get stamped out of (and leave) the country without RD clearance?  Hardly.

The law is on the books though it stopped being enforced in the early to mid 80’s. So it certainly could be revived 

[Thingamabob]

On 8/6/2024 at 8:21 PM, advancebooking said:

I think a lot of (honest) farang are worried about the new tax laws bc they were raised in a nanny state. They do not understand that TIT. The revenue dept's in your local province where you live have NO idea. They cannot even effectively tax their own citizens. 

 

Why on earth would you worry or abide by the new proposed laws. The rev dept will be relying on people to be honest and declare the said income. BUT if you dont do you think they can do anything about it....

The new laws are, as you say, proposed, not yet enacted.  

[sometimewoodworker]

55 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

According to the imminent law you will be taxed with all your income and assets wherever it comes from.

At the moment there is no new law, it is only in discussion.

[sometimewoodworker]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There's a very simple solution for those who are married to a Thai woman. I believe that I had read that there was somewhere between 2 and 5 million baht per year that was allowed to be sent to your wife, and that money would be tax-exempt. 

Too conservative!Gifts to spouse is up to 20 million pa, but you can’t receive any of the money or it is no longer a tax exempt gift

[nong38]

At the moment the TRD and Immigration do not seem to be linked but that might not always be the case and as Thailand has just joined the CRS the future looks uncertain  but my guess is that by 2030 things will look very different as it seems all GVTs seem to want to have a look in your bank accounts, remember privacy rules do not apply to GVTs. All Gvts are strapped for cash and looking for revenue, they will share information with each other about how new ways to increase revenue, Thailand just has to catch up which is why I mention 2030. They will follow the Western countries.

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Too conservative!Gifts to spouse is up to 20 million pa, but you can’t receive any of the money or it is no longer a tax exempt gift

I'd love to see the revenue department attempting to investigate whether or not a spouse benefited from funds that were sent using this exemption.