Several neighbouring countries compete with Thailand for foreign retirees

[Ben Zioner]

Two countries, I know of, tried to remove tax benefits for foreign retirees: Portugal and Malaysia, both backpedaled on their initial urge to extort, watering down and or grandfathering their "innovative" schemes.

[kingstonkid]

35 minutes ago, bob smith said:

Thailand really needs to up their game and offer something stable and concrete to the retiree if they are serious about attracting the cream of the crop!

 

Contrary to popular belief, Thailand is NOT the center of the universe. Retirees and those with money have options. Thailand needs to learn how to compete for the cash cow by enticing them with stable, long-term options for retirement that includes property/land ownership, pathway to residence, reliable healthcare, a stable government and clean air to breathe.

 

At the moment Thailand is falling short in almost all of those criteria, so moving forward, with the likes of Cambodia and the Philippines offering attractive visa packages - I see the competition for the much needed retiree dollar growing ever more fierce by the day.

 

bob.

 

I don't believe I am agreeing with Bob 😂 

 

[bob smith]

2 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

 

I don't believe I am agreeing with Bob 😂 

 

it's ok mate..

 

you aren't the first!

 

bob.

[Iforbach]

As mentioned u can hv visas,galore but idea of taxing your savings,..brought into thaild is absurd..and kick in teeth state pension frozen 😳 

[Marco51]

3 hours ago, jcmj said:

Thailand is bound to shoot itself in the foot again sooner or later. 

There aren't many feet left and the next Thaksin marionette is already cocking the gun. However, do not forget the Phillipines , parts of Indonesia and Vietnam,  all of which retain their independance of China, unlike the named Cambodia ( and do not make a negative remark on the pocket dictator). 1 point for Thailand (or maybe not really...) is that all this contradictory and nerve wrecking bureaucratic new nonsense has been invented after the Chinese invasion, not that it works, as we can see, the  news are reporting mainly the farang misdeeds  of which I must admit there are many more than before and that figures too. Even Spain has this problem.  Sorry, no time, gotta run for my next 90 day convict reporting.

[Robert Tyrrell]

Good Morning,

 

If your going to be competitive Thailand you need to consider some improvements:

 

1. Make Visa qaulification and processing more streamlined   and efficent/ Electronic versus paper piled high !!! Offer more flexibilty after being a retiree in Thailand, Offer 5 Year Visa Option instead of one year !!

2. Stop this price gouging of foriegners for the same services and products Thai"s get for half the cost !!!

 

3. Offer more affordable housing allowing Foreigners to purchase both homes and property and Condos alike !!!

 

4. Enforce Immigrations laws to be applied equally and fairly at every Immigration office in Thailand and get rid of these rules that do not apply the same at every office. Example if an American no longer needs a Income Affidavit that was replaced with showing 1 year bank statement as per Law,Yet when I go yearly they always tell me to still provide this document ???? 🙂

 

Maybe Thailand should start thinking actually about how much revenue us  Foriegners / Retirees pump into in Thailand,Start thinking about Efficency and  Flexibility with Common sense !!!!

Edited August 21 by Robert Tyrrell
spell check :)

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, Homburg said:

"Thailand offers a multiplicity of long term visas......" All of which seems to be thoughtfully designed to deter as many applicants as possible. By contrast in Cambodia, retirees pay an annual (multiple entry) visa extension fee of c.$200 (c.$300 via an agent with no need to ever set foot in immigration, just drop off your passport with a pic, pay the fee and collect it in about a week). And that's it. No mountains of paperwork, no bank deposit, no re-entry permits, no 90 day reporting. Just come and go as you please. One page in the passport is used up each year for the visa (plus entry and exit stamps). One gripe: the annual extension is for 364 days only!

I personally like the LTR from the BOI.  They cut the cost of the 10-year visa in half.  4 different catergories with wealthy pensioner perfect for me meaning not taxes on any funds remitted to Thailand.  The 1-year notification of address can be done by an agent or if you leave the country before the year is up, when you return the 1-year to notify your address starts starts from day one.  The visa has to be updated on the 5th year to ensure one still meets the necessary criteria.  I formerly had a non-imm O for 20 years.  It did get easier doing the 1-year renewal but with the LTR, papework is much less and easier to provide.  Now we await changes as TIT and we have a new govt replacing the new govt we had who replaced the actual winner of the election.  Who knows if this new govt, if it lasts, will continue shooting for the worldwide income taxation or slowly let this current one fade away.  Either way, I am not planning on leaving.  I still love it here but it would be nice to have some stability.  But then what would happen to this forum? 

[Drumbuie]

 Most of you are from countries which have with DTAs with Thailand  -have you actually bothered to work out and compare the tax figures for your income?  I did, and I'll be better off paying tax here than being tax resident in the UK. 

Also it feels right to contribute to the general good ( no pun intended) of the country I live in, whose roads I drive on, whose electricity I use, whose people grow, sell and cook the food I eat, whose schools educated the doctor I see, etc etc

 

Always good to look beyond yourself at the bigger picture. 

 

[Watawattana]

12 minutes ago, Drumbuie said:

Most of you are from countries which have with DTAs with Thailand

Thanks - made me look for the UK one.  Here it is - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

 

Looks like income tax is covered, and has been since 1981.  Resident in Thailand, not in UK.  Don't pay UK income tax but pay Thai income tax.  Except Thailand has not been charging income tax till now.  I've only done a very quick read and I probably have misunderstood, but might be good if someone else reads it who has better knowledge than me.

 

I am UK person, not resident in UK (currently Hong Kong, but proactively looking at my options), no income in UK.  Income in Hong Kong taxed by Hong Kong IRD (much less tax than in UK).

 

[Enzian]

This year I'm remitting only US SS monies resulting from my years as a self-employed contractor. But I also bank (in the US) income from residential rentals. Thailand calculates tax on rental income very differently from the US. For 2022 ('23 is still pending) I've figured that under Thai law, in 2022 I would have been liable in the very high 5 figures for my rental income, whereas in reality (due to new construction, remodels, depreciation schedules, property tax, ins., in other words all the stuff on a normal Schedule E) I paid in the low 5 figures. So global-based taxation would mean moving on (for at least half the year, but probably more as a practical matter) which in my situation would be easy. And if there is something I haven't got right, please enlighten. Thanks.

[IamNoone88]

The UK is currently offering the best scheme. Free housing, healthcare and cash for expenses. No requirement to work. The journey may be perilous and best taken in summer when the sea is calmer. In some cases you do not even need a passport.

[saintdomingo]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

How does Laos compare for home ownership: 800K bank deposit: annual visas?

Good question and I may have missed an answer.

Not interested in home ownership, but I have an idea that there are no easy annual visas. Same for Vietnam.

Be nice to be wrong.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, hotchilli said:

A retiree wanting to leave their native homeland and settle for good in another country will be looking for somewhere safe, a reasonable climate and above all else security for the their finances.

Also medical care at affordable prices

Thailand is falling short on all these issues.

 

Not falling short for me on any of the issues you mentioned.

[black tabby12345]

4 hours ago, mikebell said:

How does Laos compare for home ownership: 800K bank deposit: annual visas?

 

Lao has no Retirement Visa unlike some other ASEAN nations.

So resort to the One Month Tourist Visa.

And extend it after your entry.

 20,000 Lao kip (LAK) per day with an additional 30,000 LAK document fee. The total cost for a 30-day extension is currently 630,000 LAK (approximately $68).

Unless you hold visa of any other kinds that allow you stay longer than 3months, you need to leave the country once(by land or air). And re-enter(the same starts again; applying for  1month visa + its extension). You can do it @ Lao Embassy/border immigration office.

Cost of their tourist visa varies depending on your nationality.

 

[harryviking]

Paying taxes without benefits is THEFT!! Also, the reason I probably never will take residency in Thailand is all the uncertainty and flip flopping by the people in charge! Thailand cannot be trusted, that's it! 

[kingstonkid]

2 hours ago, Iforbach said:

As mentioned u can hv visas,galore but idea of taxing your savings,..brought into thaild is absurd..and kick in teeth state pension frozen 😳 

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but if you are taxed in your home country and they have a tax treaty with Thailand I understand that stops them. 

[Polaky]

There are plenty of alternatives that have not been covered, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, Japan, Korea, someone with the knowledge can enlighten us.

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, harryviking said:

Paying taxes without benefits is THEFT!! Also, the reason I probably never will take residency in Thailand is all the uncertainty and flip flopping by the people in charge! Thailand cannot be trusted, that's it! 

     I've been here since 2010.  In those 14 years, the only change was the requirement for health insurance with my type of visa.  You can get around this with a different visa type.   My country, USA, has a DTA with Thailand so I don't expect to pay any taxes, if the whole tax thing even ever gets off the ground.

     One improvement made was on-line 90-day reporting.   This means only one visit to Immigration a year for the annual renewal.   It would be nice if 90-day was eliminated altogether but, still, not bad.  Looking at neighboring countries, Thailand still seems like a good choice for expats, especially when things like health care and housing variety are factored in.  

[Polaky]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

I have million dolla..... I'm going back to Serbia. Better food and white women.

If you have a million dollars you will certainly attract lovely Serbian women, but why stop there, from Europe you have many nationalities with many choices, Belarus, Russian etc, I think the reason Europeans come to Thailand is because of the climate.

[itsari]

3 hours ago, Powder said:

i completely agree with you. From this year on every expat staying longer then 180 days need to pay tax. And in return? Nothing changes. Actually Thailand is not competing at all.

Its like they focus more and more on tourists, instead of making things a little easier for retirees. No, its a one way. Some job to do for the Shinawatra family. 

Your statement that every foreigner residing in Thailand longer than 180 days  needs to pay tax is not correct.

It depends what countrythe funds are coming from , how rhe money was earned and how the double taxation agreement is with the two countries as they are far from the same. 

The annoying part is that it seems that all foreigners residing in Thailand over 180 days will have to submit a tax return in my own situation but I will not have to pay tax in Thailand. 

 

[daveAustin]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Retiring to a place where with one swish of a pen you could be living in the box on the street of your home country is not enticing to some.

 

I would rather ‘live’ in a box in the ground. 🙂

[Mason45]

13 minutes ago, newnative said:

     I've been here since 2010.  In those 14 years, the only change was the requirement for health insurance with my type of visa.  You can get around this with a different visa type.   My country, USA, has a DTA with Thailand so I don't expect to pay any taxes, if the whole tax thing even ever gets off the ground.

     One improvement made was on-line 90-day reporting.   This means only one visit to Immigration a year for the annual renewal.   It would be nice if 90-day was eliminated altogether but, still, not bad.  Looking at neighboring countries, Thailand still seems like a good choice for expats, especially when things like health care and housing variety are factored in.  

" If it ever gets off the ground " Thais couldn't even organise a decent end of the year piss up with out hiccups.

[CygnusX1]

2 hours ago, Drumbuie said:

Also it feels right to contribute to the general good ( no pun intended) of the country I live in, whose roads I drive on, whose electricity I use, whose people grow, sell and cook the food I eat, whose schools educated the doctor I see, etc etc

I don’t really get the logic here. If someone is staying in Thailand most of the year and funding his life with a pension paid by his country of citizenship, then surely Thailand’s already benefiting from the direct transfer of wealth from that country into Thailand. Really no different from shorter term tourists. If your logic was correct, then a tourist industry would be a net drain of wealth from the host country, yet most countries greatly encourage tourism as they see it as an economic gain.

[Thaindrew]

23 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but if you are taxed in your home country and they have a tax treaty with Thailand I understand that stops them. 

as everything it Thailand is taxed as income you quickly move up to fairly high rates of tax, usually much higher than in your home country 

[hotchilli]

53 minutes ago, newnative said:

Not falling short for me on any of the issues you mentioned.

Glad to hear it... 

[impulse]

7 hours ago, Homburg said:

By contrast in Cambodia, retirees pay an annual (multiple entry) visa extension fee of c.$200 (c.$300 via an agent with no need to ever set foot in immigration, just drop off your passport with a pic, pay the fee and collect it in about a week). And that's it. No mountains of paperwork, no bank deposit, no re-entry permits, no 90 day reporting. Just come and go as you please. One page in the passport is used up each year for the visa (plus entry and exit stamps). One gripe: the annual extension is for 364 days only!

 

If that's true, (I have no reason to doubt it, but it sounds too good...), add that to Thailand's new unlimited land border crossings and I could see a lot of expats moving across the river to avoid the 400/800K baht requirement for extensions, the 90 day reports, as yet unknown tax implications, and that tight feeling in their buttcheeks every year when it's time to renew.

 

Thailand would get more tourist arrivals as we (because I may be one of them) cross over to visit several times a year, or perhaps even several entries per month, but the expats will be spending the majority of their sweaty money in Cambodia.

 

Edited August 21 by impulse

[Hanuman2547]

I worked in Thailand for 12 years quite a long time ago now.  I thought that I would retire to Thailand.  However, over the last 10 or so years I have re-thought that idea.  Most likely I will just spend 4-5 months over the winter in Thailand and the rest of the time in my home country.

[Nickcage49]

Is Thailand really "competing" for us? The way they treat foreigners here makes it seem like they're inviting us to go somewhere else.

[nickmondo]

7 hours ago, hotchilli said:

A retiree wanting to leave their native homeland and settle for good in another country will be looking for somewhere safe, a reasonable climate and above all else security for the their finances.

Also medical care at affordable prices

Thailand is falling short on all these issues.

 

give examples of where Thailand is failing as you have mentioned above

[fulhamster]

7 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Pretty nice ads up right in Times Square several neon ads in a row saying Make Thailand your home. Thailand long term visa etc. Also ads on same sign for tourism. Just walked by there an hour ago. 

Check the small print ..... there's plenty of it