Don’t kill the golden goose! Tax reforms may drive away expats

[NoDisplayName]

30 minutes ago, newnative said:

Thanks for your interesting post.  I'm curious regarding the $61,750 tax-free figure you mentioned, which I am not familiar with.  Is that for higher income levels? 

 

No, only for us po'folks.  It's a combination of standard deduction and special 0% tax rate on LTCG for those in the lower TWO tax brackets.

 

If you have no earned income, you can use the entire first two tax brackets ($41,750 in 2024) to soak up your LTCG.  The amount you can take at 0% is reduced by earned income going into those two brackets.  You'll then be using the "qualified dividends and capital gains tax worksheet" to figger your tax instead of the tax tables.

 

Foreign earned income (tax-free) counts against the 0% allowance.  I'm not sure if SocSec does, but assume it probably would.  I'll need to confirm that in a few years when I start to collect.

[newnative]

49 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

No, only for us po'folks.  It's a combination of standard deduction and special 0% tax rate on LTCG for those in the lower TWO tax brackets.

 

If you have no earned income, you can use the entire first two tax brackets ($41,750 in 2024) to soak up your LTCG.  The amount you can take at 0% is reduced by earned income going into those two brackets.  You'll then be using the "qualified dividends and capital gains tax worksheet" to figger your tax instead of the tax tables.

 

Foreign earned income (tax-free) counts against the 0% allowance.  I'm not sure if SocSec does, but assume it probably would.  I'll need to confirm that in a few years when I start to collect.

Thank you.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

 

When did this come into effect ?

When did what come into effect, that work permit holders must settle taxes before they leave the country? I imagine years ago, perhaps others know when.

[anrcaccount]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

I have spoken to multiple Non B holders with work permits, none have ever been required to produce a tax clearance certificate when leaving Thailand. If anyone on a Non B working was been asked for this, surely it would have come up as a topic for discussion in these threads or sometime in the last few years, and agents would also know about it. 

 

As I said, tax clearance certificates are not operational in Thailand today. That's common knowledge.

 

So while the law is on the books ( I didn't say that was wrong, and yes you provided  the source), you stating that:

 

"Each would need to obtain a Tax Clearance Certificate from TRD, before leaving the country."

 

is not correct.  IMO, that type of statement builds unnecessary fear and concern amongst readers.  

 

 

A more measured response, now that I am home once again:

 

D’man said that only a handful of work permit holders need to prove their taxes before leaving the country, the UN report says there are 170,000 foreign skilled and professional people here which is considerably more than just a handful.

 

You are mixing things up. 

 

Sure, there are more than a handful of work permit holders on Non B visas. Agree.

 

None of these need to "prove taxes before leaving the country". There is a requirement for a tax return to be shown upon an extension for Non B work permit visa holders, nothing is required to be shown when leaving the country. Immigration do not ask any of these people for a "tax clearance certificates" before leaving the country. Tax clearance certificates are not operational. See below for more on this. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Anecdotal reports from members have said that all work permit holders must settle their taxes before they leave, the TRD Code supports this in Section 4.

 

The TRD Code says the vehicle for proving taxes are current is the Tax Clearance Certificate (TCC). You don’t believe the TCC is operational, because you haven’t seen reports from anyone on the forum about this. If AN has 5,000 active members and half of them hold work permits, which is extremely generous but unlikely, your evidence is having not seen an AN report from any of the 1.5% of foreign work permit holders that confirms or denies this.

 

 

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

You are critical of my language and accuse me of scaring members when I said that all 170,000 will need to obtain a TCC. Whether or not that settlement is done by showing a tax return or obtaining a TCC seems almost irrelevant since that only indicates the means, not the need or the requriement.

 

There are thousands of these holders coming and going every day, and have been for many years. If there was a need for them to obtain a TCC , it would have been evident, discussed. 

 

I'll refer you to this thread , have a look and you'll see the founders and established mods of this forum state the same, that TCC's are not in force and have not been for many years, looks like 2003 it was stopped. 

 

 

 

Here's another link stating the TCC isn't operational, from the forum founder: 

 

I'll say something we can agree on, these 170,000 are paying tax, yes, and they do tax returns and show them to Immigration each year as part of the extension process.

 

 

But the TCC isn't in operation. 

 

 

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I think you are the one who is scaring members by claiming statements to be false but without proof and downplaying the facts. I think you are clutching at straws by trying to find any means to attack any of my posts or my credibility, because your fantasy about my identity has been exposed.

 

I'll just leave this one here.  

Edited Thursday at 09:50 AM by anrcaccount
added link

[chiang mai]

19 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

You are mixing things up. 

 

Sure, there are more than a handful of work permit holders on Non B visas. Agree.

 

None of these need to "prove taxes before leaving the country". There is a requirement for a tax return to be shown upon an extension for Non B work permit visa holders, nothing is required to be shown when leaving the country. Immigration do not ask any of these people for a "tax clearance certificates" before leaving the country. Tax clearance certificates are not operational. See below for more on this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are thousands of these holders coming and going every day, and have been for many years. If there was a need for them to obtain a TCC , it would have been evident, discussed. 

 

I'll refer you to this thread , have a look and you'll see the founders and established mods of this forum state the same, that TCC's are not in force and have not been for many years, looks like 2003 it was stopped. 

 

 

 

Here's another link stating the TCC isn't operational, from the forum founder: 

 

I'll say something we can agree on, these 170,000 are paying tax, yes, and they do tax returns and show them to Immigration each year as part of the extension process.

 

 

But the TCC isn't in operation. 

 

 

 

I'll just leave this one here.  

 

Ok, so we have a situation whereby Thai tax returns must be shown to extend a WP, not dissimilar to what some expect for the extension of long term visa's. But there appears to be no requirement to show proof of taxes paid in order to exit, for many visa types. Points that arise include:

 

- is that true of all provinces and visa types.

- it does not appear that the TRD Code was changed to rescind the TCC rule, it appears it may have been informally suspended somehow and only presumed to have been rescinded.

- I am aware that foreign musicians/entertainers/sport people are groups that must still obtain a TCC before departure, that means the rule is still applicable but on a selective basis. The question is, what other groups does the rule still apply to.

 

A BP quote from 2012 explains:

 

"Those liable to tax under both rules must pay tax at a progressive rate ranging from 5-37%, and the above principles basically apply to all careers. Once foreign sportsmen and entertainers pay their tax, they must obtain a tax clearance certificate before they can leave Thailand".

Please credit and share this article with others using this link: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/305123/taxes-on-sportsmen-and-entertainers. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

 

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

20 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

In Thailand they can't use computers many examples... policecomputers of different areas are not connected, bank offices are not connected , even the living place and the blue family book are not connected... and AI that will take a few decades before Thailand knows what it is 

I think you might be wrong and Thailand is doing a run on/in it.

All started, visa and the tax, after a EU delegation was in Thailand. No clue, if a USA was involved as well.

To have a talk and maybe support to enroll al.

Set up for checking money, laundering, terrorist activities. That was a main reason.

A global reason for all governments, they are hunting on it. No more mr nice guys!

So it started with the main reason. But now control everything about money. Data.

There popped up the sub reasons and taxing was very nice of course. Having as well side effect, people leaving Thailand to make space for the super rich. They have way other rules.

It is just easy money to get, it was already in law, so now execute. Pai retirees !

 

EU and USA also forced Thailand to act on "human trafficking" , there were sanctions if they didnt want to comply. They had to show, they were really working on it.

All colored books are not really important, money is. The track on money, where is it , where does it go.

And with ETA with VE, where are you , where you go, You are the odd one out. 

 

Nurachai Ninnad stated , you could enter Thailand as many times you want with only restriction 1 day out of Thailand. Now it is changed and you will need an ETA. That is a digital controlling thing.

He didnt know about it when stating, yha right.

Surrounding countries al ready have, like Cambodia and Malaysia. Cambodia need to apply in front for 7 days, Malaysia it is 3 days. SO how many days THailand will ask for their ETA? And how much it will cost?

For a Canadian ETA, you need to pay. DOnt know about Cambodia and Malaysia, probably STILL free.   

 

He also said , there wouldnt be a change in the existing visa in near future. Really?

Maybe they connect tax and visa together?! Pushing common retire folks out, Thailand only want super rich !

But ok, not important, first comply with scheme on money, prio 1. Probably forced by others, but THailand has great profit with it in several ways.

 

 

"My country" (your x) dont want you to go away, There is a magic year 2027 in which all cost you a lot.

A big group of pensioners, maybe wanting to immigrate .. to Thailand. They have data on it, so they take actions to hold you for ..money. Price of houses , 3-4 times their former value.

So that extra money on house, they want to tax you if you sell. Go to Thailand before 2027?

Then you make Thailand act like now, you make it not worthy.

You might think sometimes Thai government is behind, but other countries just force them to take those

steps and it will become real water tight ! It is all about the MONEY, dum dum dum de didee.

 

Crazy ideas from me? Maybe, but if you just notice signs, you can end up with these kind of conclusions.

Fact is cant live in Thailand anymore, due to tax. Thailand taxes everything, no matter where your money is. However I must move, immigrate, before 2027, as "my country" isnt my country anymore, real since 2000.

From all EU counties , it is the worst country.

 

  

 

[Rob Browder]

12 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

There are a handful of visa holders who are required to show Immigration their tax return, because they are working in Thailand.

 

No one else is required to show Immigration a Thai tax return.

Correct - I was speaking hypothetically regarding the new tax scheme's possible enforcement mechanisms in the future.

[Rob Browder]

12 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

That's not what I meant. I see a problem in the synchronization of taxes and immigration dates.

 

Example: Someone has their annual extention appointment at Immigration on January 15th. His permit to stay in Thailand expires on February 14th. He submits all documents to Immigrarion on January 15th, except his tax OK certificate. However, according to tax law, he is only obliged to submit his tax return by March 31st at the latest. What happens now to this foreigner? Will his application be rejected just because he doesn't have his tax certificate? or can't do it in time. Must he leave then Thailand on Februar 14th because he can not get his tax Ok paper so quick? For example, if someone applies for their annual extension to immigration in October, it will be easier for them. The regional tax office will probably have processed his tax case by October (April 1 to October would be enough time).

 

There will be in practice a timing problem within two Thai institutions.

I assume the return for the year prior would be used, if before the filing-deadline for that year.  If after the tax-deadline, but before a confirmation by the tax-guys, proof that a filing had been made could be accepted.   

 

But, even better (for all concerned), would be that immigration can log into a portal and check there is no "red tax-flag" on an applicant, and that they are "in the system."   Once "in the system," one is open to audit, and the tax-guys have their own enforcement mechanisms.

 

Related: Note the proposal for a "negative income tax" for lower-earning Thais (currently do not have to file), which would trick every Thai who wanted to get the "free" money "into the system," where they can be audited.  Eventually, they would simply declare everyone must file.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

You are mixing things up. 

 

Sure, there are more than a handful of work permit holders on Non B visas. Agree.

 

None of these need to "prove taxes before leaving the country". There is a requirement for a tax return to be shown upon an extension for Non B work permit visa holders, nothing is required to be shown when leaving the country. Immigration do not ask any of these people for a "tax clearance certificates" before leaving the country. Tax clearance certificates are not operational. See below for more on this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are thousands of these holders coming and going every day, and have been for many years. If there was a need for them to obtain a TCC , it would have been evident, discussed. 

 

I'll refer you to this thread , have a look and you'll see the founders and established mods of this forum state the same, that TCC's are not in force and have not been for many years, looks like 2003 it was stopped. 

 

 

 

Here's another link stating the TCC isn't operational, from the forum founder: 

 

I'll say something we can agree on, these 170,000 are paying tax, yes, and they do tax returns and show them to Immigration each year as part of the extension process.

 

 

But the TCC isn't in operation. 

 

 

 

I'll just leave this one here.  

Thinking about this....it seems to me that the sponsor of the WP probably has a default  or fall back obligation for the WP holders taxes. The employer will almost certainly be required to deduct tax from the WP holders salary and to ensure they are current by the last day of the contract. If there is an issue, the onus is likely to be on the employer, not the employee, to ensure taxes are paid which would explain the lack of need to obtain a TCC of equivalent before leaving the country. 

[JackGats]

On 9/11/2024 at 2:51 PM, ikke1959 said:

In Thailand they can't use computers many examples... policecomputers of different areas are not connected, bank offices are not connected , even the living place and the blue family book are not connected... and AI that will take a few decades before Thailand knows what it is 

I'm not sure the Thais can't use computers. I find their driving license system very streamlined. Within hours they issue you with a brand new driving license complete with a nice picture of yourself. When I went to apply for my Thai TIN they issued me with one within minutes. And there's the 90-reporting system, a bureaucratic waste of time from our standpoint, but it doesn't it give Thai bureaucrats plenty of computer practice? 

[Lopburikid]

On 9/11/2024 at 6:59 AM, Lopburikid said:

It hasn't even been passed through yet. This was proposed by a PM and a deputy PM who really didn't like farangs. They say it won't even be debated until the beginning of 2025, plus, there is quite a lot of opposition to is as it will effect Thais as well as foreigners. The PM of today and her family were always very farang friendly. So wait and see. As for the agents and IOs they will always find away round it.   

For those who laugh. I worked for a Thai company for 9 years. Non B visa, work permit, tax forms, med ins. After 9 years I went to transfer my work permit to another company. ALL work permits, tax form Med ins were all fake The company took the tax, but never paid it to the tax office. I was lucky as the labour department knew it wasn't my fault.

[Jerry777]

On 9/11/2024 at 4:03 PM, SunsetT said:

Due to the lousy education there is no rational thought enabling clear thinking and forward planning. Everything is just trial and error. 

I worked for a Thai Government Training institution many years ago for a year, I was fired for not allowing them to cheat on the final exams.

[MarkBR]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:28 PM, hwas said:

I strongly suspect that once the global tax change goes into effect, the “stay in Thailand less than 180 days” loophole will also be closed.  Thailand will simply require residence visa holders to be resident in Thailand for 180 days, or the visa will be cancelled.  This is a requirement in most countries for residence visas

Many will become tourists

[Banana7]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:33 PM, Celsius said:

 

This looks like a non resident account letter that they send every year to account holders who live outside canada. I got the same letter from RBC. They are not sending these to normal  resident accounts.

I am a resident of Canada for tax purposes, even though I stay in Canada less than 180 days per calendar year. I had to file this form with TD Waterhouse when I transferred an RRSP into an RRIF and updated my investor profile. Also I had to file a similar form when transferring a bank account from one branch to another.

 

Even for Canadian citizens not living in Canada, Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) decides if you are a resident for tax purposes. There is a BIG form that has to filed to be classified as not having to pay CRA. Very difficult to escape from CRA.

 

A Canadian, non-resident or resident tax payer, may also qualify their Canadian residential property for higher property taxes, basically if you rent your Canadian home while outside Canada. Certain cities like Ottawa and Toronto, maybe Vancouver, have an extra property tax if the owner doesn't live in it and classify it as their permanent residence.

[Rolo89]

Lot's of empty condos at the moment, and they're continuing with building 100's more.

 

I would have rented one this week for a year and given the Thai gov more money for the landlord to pay tax on and more of my money brought into Thailand for them to tax.

 

I suspect property will take a big hit and the people invested won't be happy. 

 

But until I'm more confident this taxing worldwide income won't come in Jan 2025 then I'm not making a commitment and will be off to the Philipines and Malaysia in the short term while I formulate backup plans. Even if it doesn't come in for 2025 I'm now preparing for Thailand to be on a year by year basis rather than any long term plans.

Edited Friday at 06:54 AM by Rolo89

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, Banana7 said:

Even for Canadian citizens not living in Canada, Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) decides if you are a resident for tax purposes. There is a BIG form that has to filed to be classified as not having to pay CRA. Very difficult to escape from CRA.

 

A Canadian, non-resident or resident tax payer, may also qualify their Canadian residential property for higher property taxes, basically if you rent your Canadian home while outside Canada. Certain cities like Ottawa and Toronto, maybe Vancouver, have an extra property tax if the owner doesn't live in it and classify it as their permanent residence.

 

Sure. I declared myself a non resident. It is not that difficult. I own a property in Toronto that I rent out and CRA takes 25% of my profit as a non resident.  I would rather be a resident for tax purposes considering all the breaks and money I would get from Trudeau, but my accountant advised me after 2 years living in Thailand to start filing as non resident. 

 

CBSA tracks your ins and outs of the country and does report to CRA.

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Even for Canadian citizens not living in Canada, Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) decides if you are a resident for tax purposes.

 

Canada along with Australia are 2 of the worst culprits for this kind of thing so far.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 9/11/2024 at 6:59 AM, Lopburikid said:

The PM of today and her family were always very farang friendly.

 

Thaksin was never farang friendly.

[chiang mai]

It's shame the discussion on tax clearance certificates (TCC's) has ended because it was productive, it laid some myths to rest and it did provide a useful model for understanding what might happen later.

 

It's helpful to everyone's understanding to know TCC's have NOT been rescinded and appear to still be operational for some visa types. It's also useful to realise that there are some 170,000 work permit type visa's in operation because that gives a useful estimate of scale which is not small by any measure.

 

The last piece of important information is the realisation that the employer or sponsor of a Work Permit holder almost certainly plays a role in ensuring taxes are paid before the WP holder leaves the country because this step can't be reproduced for retirees and other non-WP type visa's. The TRD Code calls for the taxpayer to provide proof or a surety that taxes have/will be paid before obtaining a TCC and leaving the country, perhaps the 400k/800k (or similar) will play a useful role here.

 

 

 

 

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

It's shame the discussion on tax clearance certificates (TCC's) has ended because it was productive, it laid some myths to rest and it did provide a useful model for understanding what might happen later.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree discussion on TCC's was productive. Maybe for your own understanding, yes, but for anyone generally, it's irrelevant. 

 

Subtly speculating that an obscure regulation, still on the books but not operational for more than 20 years, might be used in the future...................... I don't see that as being helpful or providing any guidance on what might happen later.

 

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

It's helpful to everyone's understanding to know TCC's have NOT been rescinded and appear to still be operational for some visa types. 

 

No, they are not operational , for any visa types.

 

Again, I don't see how this is helpful to anyone's understanding. 

 

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

The last piece of important information is the realisation that the employer or sponsor of a Work Permit holder almost certainly plays a role in ensuring taxes are paid before the WP holder leaves the country because this step can't be reproduced for retirees and other non-WP type visa's. The TRD Code calls for the taxpayer to provide proof or a surety that taxes have/will be paid before obtaining a TCC and leaving the country, perhaps the 400k/800k (or similar) will play a useful role here.

 

 

 

 

 

Here, again, you say "before the WP holder leaves the country" ........ why?

 

There's no checking of taxation by immigration of any visa holder (or visa exempt for that matter) when they exit the country. 

 

It's already been clarified that, for Non B visa holders with associated work permits, taxation proof ( not TCC's) is required on extensions. This isn't ensuring taxes are paid "before they leave the country" , it's ensuring they are paid so they renew the right to stay in the country under the visa type and associated work permit.

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree discussion on TCC's was productive. Maybe for your own understanding, yes, but for anyone generally, it's irrelevant. 

 

Subtly speculating that an obscure regulation, still on the books but not operational for more than 20 years, might be used in the future...................... I don't see that as being helpful or providing any guidance on what might happen later.

 

 

No, they are not operational , for any visa types.

 

Again, I don't see how this is helpful to anyone's understanding. 

 

 

Here, again, you say "before the WP holder leaves the country" ........ why?

 

There's no checking of taxation by immigration of any visa holder (or visa exempt for that matter) when they exit the country. 

 

It's already been clarified that, for Non B visa holders with associated work permits, taxation proof ( not TCC's) is required on extensions. This isn't ensuring taxes are paid "before they leave the country" , it's ensuring they are paid so they renew the right to stay in the country under the visa type and associated work permit.

 

 

 

 

You provided a link dating back to 2003 stating the TCC's were not operational. I produced a BP article dated 2012 stating they are.

 

Your turn to refute my evidence!

[chiang mai]

Here, again, you say "before the WP holder leaves the country" ........ why?

 

I can guarantee you that there is some mechanism in place to ensure the TRD receives the taxes that are due, before the expat taxpayer leaves the country and goes home, absolutely guarantee.

 

In the US that is a TCC, in Hong Kong it is an obligation on the employer to notify the Revenue that the employee has been paid untaxed bonus and within an hour of the money having been deposited into the employee's bank account, the bank has handed over 20% to the Revenue in anticipation the employee will file a return and settle matters.

 

 

[Rolo89]

17 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I can guarantee you that there is some mechanism in place to ensure the TRD receives the taxes that are due, before the expat taxpayer leaves the country and goes home, absolutely guarantee.

My Thai tax advisors say they've never heard of this happening as expats fly all the time and they've no idea when they're leaving for good. Maybe it would be different if you have taxes overdue and it flags that at the airport? But computer systems are such a mess I doubt they could get this operational

[anrcaccount]

22 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Here, again, you say "before the WP holder leaves the country" ........ why?

 

I can guarantee you that there is some mechanism in place to ensure the TRD receives the taxes that are due, before the expat taxpayer leaves the country and goes home, absolutely guarantee.

 

In the US that is a TCC, in Hong Kong it is an obligation on the employer to notify the Revenue that the employee has been paid untaxed bonus and within an hour of the money having been deposited into the employee's bank account, the bank has handed over 20% to the Revenue in anticipation the employee will file a return and settle matters.

 

 

 

No, you are incorrect. There is no mechanism in Thailand linking the taxes paid to TRD with entries / exits to the country. An expat taxpayer will not be asked for anything relating to tax at the airport, when they leave the country. 

 

Immigration does not share any information with local TRD (unless specifically requested), regarding when a person enters or leaves Thailand.  Source KPMG , top of page 8, if you don't believe it.  

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

33 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Here, again, you say "before the WP holder leaves the country" ........ why?

 

I can guarantee you that there is some mechanism in place to ensure the TRD receives the taxes that are due, before the expat taxpayer leaves the country and goes home, absolutely guarantee.

 

In the US that is a TCC, in Hong Kong it is an obligation on the employer to notify the Revenue that the employee has been paid untaxed bonus and within an hour of the money having been deposited into the employee's bank account, the bank has handed over 20% to the Revenue in anticipation the employee will file a return and settle matters.

Friend of mine changed jobs in Thailand & for some reason when they calculated his final pay check, TRD said he owed 350,000THB which he had to pay within 7 days & wasn't allowed to leave the country until he had paid (He was warned that his passport would be flagged at Immigration). 

 

He'd calculated that he didn't owe anything but needed to be in Malaysia for corporate training the next week so paid it straight away showing the receipt to the immigration officer on his exit then was able to reclaim it via his next year's Tax Return.

 

 

Edit: When I left my Job in Singapore (Twice) I also had to clear any outstanding taxes (My final salary was withheld) before I could leave thecountry

 https://www.simplepay.com.sg/help/payroll-concepts/special-topics/tax-clearance/

  

Edited Saturday at 02:35 AM by Mike Teavee

[jayboy]

On 9/12/2024 at 8:25 AM, Raindancer said:

I wouldn't worry too unnecessarily. 

 

If you are married over 65, you will have allowances of 560k, which includes the first 150k, ( non taxable).

 

As the max UK state pension is currently £220 per week (£11660) per annum, equates to 513k thai baht @ 44 baht to the £, you will be OK.

 

Even £ 11660 (@ 46 baht = 536k pa to the pound) is still under the 560k per annum allowances. 

 

But surely the majority of  UK expat retirees are not just living off their state pensions.So there is a legitimate concern for most.

[anrcaccount]

53 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You provided a link dating back to 2003 stating the TCC's were not operational. I produced a BP article dated 2012 stating they are.

 

Your turn to refute my evidence!

 

It's hard to prove something to someone who won't accept reality. Reality- the TCC document is not operational in Thailand, and has not been for a long time. 

 

One of the threads I quoted was from 2019. Here's what a mod said: 

 

"Over 15 years of living and working here (and paying tax etc) and leaving the country several times a year on business I have never once obtained or been asked for any tax documentation at the airport.

 

Doubtless these things are still available but (at present) nobody seems to care."

 

Here's what a member said (while they aren't technically correct as the law hasn't been rescinded, they are correct to say it's no longer in force: 

 

"The Tax Clearance Certificate regulation/law was rescinded about 20 years ago.   It is no longer in force."

[chiang mai]

23 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No, you are incorrect. There is no mechanism in Thailand linking the taxes paid to TRD with entries / exits to the country. An expat taxpayer will not be asked for anything relating to tax at the airport, when they leave the country. 

 

Immigration does not share any information with local TRD (unless specifically requested), regarding when a person enters or leaves Thailand.  Source KPMG , top of page 8, if you don't believe it.  

 

 

I didn't write that the tax payer would be asked for anything at the airport, I said that there is some mechanism somewhere to guarantee that taxes are paid before the person departs. That mechanism is most probabl;y a guarantee  by the employer, which shifts the responsibility.

[chiang mai]

Just now, anrcaccount said:

 

It's hard to prove something to someone who won't accept reality. Reality- the TCC document is not operational in Thailand, and has not been for a long time. 

 

One of the threads I quoted was from 2019. Here's what a mod said: 

 

"Over 15 years of living and working here (and paying tax etc) and leaving the country several times a year on business I have never once obtained or been asked for any tax documentation at the airport.

 

Doubtless these things are still available but (at present) nobody seems to care."

 

Here's what a member said (while they aren't technically correct as the law hasn't been rescinded, they are correct to say it's no longer in force: 

 

"The Tax Clearance Certificate regulation/law was rescinded about 20 years ago.   It is no longer in force."

You wanted me to accept the links that you posted as being the absolute proof, I didn't. Don't expect me to believe something, just because you say it is so, I need you to prove it. On my side is a BP article dated 2012 AND the TRD Code, your only evidence is 2003 heresy and constant bleating that TCC's are no longer operational.....prove it to me, show me that my evidence has been superseded and I may concede it is so. 

[chiang mai]

42 minutes ago, Rolo89 said:

My Thai tax advisors say they've never heard of this happening as expats fly all the time and they've no idea when they're leaving for good. Maybe it would be different if you have taxes overdue and it flags that at the airport? But computer systems are such a mess I doubt they could get this operational

The mechanism I refer to doesn't necessarily involve the taxpayer receiving clearance, it may be the employers guarantee that taxes owed will be paid.