New McCharthyism Sweeping the USA and the World?: What examples have you seen?

[GammaGlobulin]

Dear Folks,

 

From my perspective, having lived a very long time, already, I now feel similarities between the Old McCharthyism and some Nouveau-McCharthyism which is even worse than the old McCharthyism.

 

I am talking about imposition of the need for self-censorship among almost anyone.

 

And, I am talking about TAMPING DOWN and Stamping Out almost any opportunity for free debate at major hallowed halls of the Greatest Universities in the Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But, more of a travesty is the fact that, even just among the Common Man, like you and me, we no longer seem to have the freedom to say what we like.

 

I am talking about the increasing need to self-censor when we discuss almost anything slightly controversial, whether it be with friends, or, maybe now, even in our own minds....perish the THOUGHT!

 

Some of you guys call this WOKEISM...but it is not wokeism in the real sense.

 

WOKE is not what most people think.

Just ask Nim Chimpsky.

 

All that I am saying is that....

When we lose the freedom to discuss/debate, with complete freedom, almost any topic....at ANY university....then....

This will have major negative repercussions for the likes of lesser mortals, who don't know what's what.

 

I am not speaking, here, about any particular topic or issue, which might be discussed...

I am only talking about the need for freedom and tolerance which will enable us to talk freely, and express freely, different points of view.

 

I guess you have heard about the Chinese Cultural Revolution which set back China many years, at the time, and destroyed so many lives.

 

And so I ask you:

 

Is the USA and the rest of the western world now engaging in a New Cultural Revolution where, just as in the 1960s in China, nobody is allowed to express ideas, or even to THINK ideas?

 

Sure, back in the day, In China....

During the Cultural Revolution...

Almost all thought was completely controlled by The Party.

 

And, it seems to me that the USA is doing it's best to copy The Chinese Cultural Revolution, but ....

With American Characteristics.....

 

I am sure you recall this book:

 

And so now....

 

Seems we are getting Chinese Cultural Revolution THOUGHT CONTROL with.....

American/Western Characteristics.

 

So...

 

The question is:

 

Do you feel able to speak your mind at university....

Or, speak your mind when out and about, with so-called friends....

Or, for that matter, do you feel free to speak your mind to your WIFE?

 

Just wondering, because...were are obviously now entering a Brave New World of Weird-Speak.

 

Profs are getting banned for discussing issues that once were discussable.

 

Where, OH where....

Will it all end, if this continues much longer?

 

Please tell me.

 

Best regards,

 

Gamma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[newbee2022]

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Dear Folks,

 

From my perspective, having lived a very long time, already, I now feel similarities between the Old McCharthyism and some Nouveau-McCharthyism which is even worse than the old McCharthyism.

 

I am talking about imposition of the need for self-censorship among almost anyone.

 

And, I am talking about TAMPING DOWN and Stamping Out almost any opportunity for free debate at major hallowed halls of the Greatest Universities in the Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But, more of a travesty is the fact that, even just among the Common Man, like you and me, we no longer seem to have the freedom to say what we like.

 

I am talking about the increasing need to self-censor when we discuss almost anything slightly controversial, whether it be with friends, or, maybe now, even in our own minds....perish the THOUGHT!

 

Some of you guys call this WOKEISM...but it is not wokeism in the real sense.

 

WOKE is not what most people think.

Just ask Nim Chimpsky.

 

All that I am saying is that....

When we lose the freedom to discuss/debate, with complete freedom, almost any topic....at ANY university....then....

This will have major negative repercussions for the likes of lesser mortals, who don't know what's what.

 

I am not speaking, here, about any particular topic or issue, which might be discussed...

I am only talking about the need for freedom and tolerance which will enable us to talk freely, and express freely, different points of view.

 

I guess you have heard about the Chinese Cultural Revolution which set back China many years, at the time, and destroyed so many lives.

 

And so I ask you:

 

Is the USA and the rest of the western world now engaging in a New Cultural Revolution where, just as in the 1960s in China, nobody is allowed to express ideas, or even to THINK ideas?

 

Sure, back in the day, In China....

During the Cultural Revolution...

Almost all thought was completely controlled by The Party.

 

And, it seems to me that the USA is doing it's best to copy The Chinese Cultural Revolution, but ....

With American Characteristics.....

 

I am sure you recall this book:

 

And so now....

 

Seems we are getting Chinese Cultural Revolution THOUGHT CONTROL with.....

American/Western Characteristics.

 

So...

 

The question is:

 

Do you feel able to speak your mind at university....

Or, speak your mind when out and about, with so-called friends....

Or, for that matter, do you feel free to speak your mind to your WIFE?

 

Just wondering, because...were are obviously now entering a Brave New World of Weird-Speak.

 

Profs are getting banned for discussing issues that once were discussable.

 

Where, OH where....

Will it all end, if this continues much longer?

 

Please tell me.

 

Best regards,

 

Gamma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't see any restrictions to say what I want.....unless you live in Thailand.

However, to have your opinion revealed on ASEAN Now might cause a mini <deleted> storm with very harsh words included.

Because some claim sovereignty of opinion for themselves. 😂

[spidermike007]

Personally, I despise PC. And social justice authoritarianism. I think it represents alot of what is wrong with contemporary culture, and especially America today. It is a major form of weakness, when you allow yourself to be easily offended, and take everything personally. Granted, there are things that can be perceived as offensive, but allowing yourself to be offended by tiny little things people say and do is a bit much! But, the people who are offended daily, by things others say, are just weak, and would benefit by growing thicker skin. Life can be rough and caustic at times, and for those of us who have grown thick skin, it is like water off a ducks back. No big deal, at all. Think what you want to think. It just does not mean anything to those with self esteem, and a sense of who and what they are. Granted, these are just my opinions, and some will take offense to them. LOL. 

 

The US and the UK are by far the most tolerant countries in the world when it comes to the whole trans, non-binary, amorosexual, decide whatever you want today, if it fits mentality. No other countries are as loose, driftless, and as silly. Hopefully it's a fad and it will pass at some point. 

 

 

The notion that political correctness has “gone mad” is familiar to anyone who follows even vaguely any aspect of modern political or cultural life. The phrase, ostensibly referring to language or action that is designed to avoid offence or harm to protected groups, has become a sharp criticism. It is synonymous with a sort of cultural McCarthyism, usually committed by the left.

 

https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/10/has-political-correctness-gone-too-far

 

 

A Rasmussen poll found that 71 percent of Americans think political correctness is a problem today. When is being politically correct more about civility and politeness? When when does it veer into censorship? When is it justified? When is it not justified?

 

https://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/2016-09-30/has-political-correctness-gone-too-far

 

[Lacessit]

IMO the term leftist is the new label used.

 

I don't know about McCarthyism, although Trump's attempt to label Harris as a Marxist certainly has the tone.

 

Far right conspiracy theorists and white supremacists are on the rise, everywhere. IMO China and Russia are the chief enablers.

[CygnusX1]

I feel entirely free to speak my mind, but only because I’m retired. If I were still employed, I’d have real concerns about conceivably being dismissed from my job for saying the wrong thing.

 

Look at the case of Israel Folau, a supremely talented Australian rugby star, who was sacked from the team for stating that atheists, homosexuals, fornicators etc were going to hell unless they repented of their evil ways. Now as a lifelong atheist, who’s also guilty of just about every other of the sins enumerated by Folau, with the sole exception of homosexuality, I think Folau’s an idiot who’s left 90% of his brain on the football field, but I also respect his right of freedom of speech. In fact, the most important speech to defend is that with which you profoundly disagree. Can’t get my woke sister, who has no problems with severely punishing people for stating views with which she disagrees, to understand that.

 

Freedom of speech is a very complicated matter, with proper limits on defamatory and threatening speech that democratic governments and courts have figured out over many years. Woke leftists are doing their best to dismantle all of that, and are looking more like those from the furthest of the far right, with their censorship of views with which they disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the term leftist is the new label used.

 

I don't know about McCarthyism, although Trump's attempt to label Harris as a Marxist certainly has the tone.

 

Far right conspiracy theorists and white supremacists are on the rise, everywhere. IMO China and Russia are the chief enablers.

I don't see how China and Russia are to blame. They've seen what happened in the US and they've just capitalized on the sheer lunacy of it. But there's a new wave of thinly disguised bigotry and hate coming from America. It's been going on since early Trump days, but I really believe he ushered in this new era of in yer face I'll say what I like and if you don't like it, f off. Thing is, pre internet, you couldn't get away with it down the pub, as somebody would simply give you a slap, and down you'd go. Or not. Now of course, we don't even know to whom or what we're talking, so the whole thing is just farcical. It's just an endless argument. The rise of the conspiracy theorists and disinformation actors too. I mean thousands make a living out of generating lies and BS. And they're famous! Tucker, Loomer, Taylor, Wohl, Buckman, Jones. There's thousands of them.

 

Yeah, leftist has become the insult of choice, followed by Marxist, liberal, etc etc. Commila? Democrats are Marxists? Yeah Trump's to blame for sure.

[Red Forever]

16 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Dear Folks,

 

From my perspective, having lived a very long time, already, I now feel similarities between the Old McCharthyism and some Nouveau-McCharthyism which is even worse than the old McCharthyism.

 

I am talking about imposition of the need for self-censorship among almost anyone.

 

And, I am talking about TAMPING DOWN and Stamping Out almost any opportunity for free debate at major hallowed halls of the Greatest Universities in the Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But, more of a travesty is the fact that, even just among the Common Man, like you and me, we no longer seem to have the freedom to say what we like.

 

I am talking about the increasing need to self-censor when we discuss almost anything slightly controversial, whether it be with friends, or, maybe now, even in our own minds....perish the THOUGHT!

 

Some of you guys call this WOKEISM...but it is not wokeism in the real sense.

 

WOKE is not what most people think.

Just ask Nim Chimpsky.

 

All that I am saying is that....

When we lose the freedom to discuss/debate, with complete freedom, almost any topic....at ANY university....then....

This will have major negative repercussions for the likes of lesser mortals, who don't know what's what.

 

I am not speaking, here, about any particular topic or issue, which might be discussed...

I am only talking about the need for freedom and tolerance which will enable us to talk freely, and express freely, different points of view.

 

I guess you have heard about the Chinese Cultural Revolution which set back China many years, at the time, and destroyed so many lives.

 

And so I ask you:

 

Is the USA and the rest of the western world now engaging in a New Cultural Revolution where, just as in the 1960s in China, nobody is allowed to express ideas, or even to THINK ideas?

 

Sure, back in the day, In China....

During the Cultural Revolution...

Almost all thought was completely controlled by The Party.

 

And, it seems to me that the USA is doing it's best to copy The Chinese Cultural Revolution, but ....

With American Characteristics.....

 

I am sure you recall this book:

 

And so now....

 

Seems we are getting Chinese Cultural Revolution THOUGHT CONTROL with.....

American/Western Characteristics.

 

So...

 

The question is:

 

Do you feel able to speak your mind at university....

Or, speak your mind when out and about, with so-called friends....

Or, for that matter, do you feel free to speak your mind to your WIFE?

 

Just wondering, because...were are obviously now entering a Brave New World of Weird-Speak.

 

Profs are getting banned for discussing issues that once were discussable.

 

Where, OH where....

Will it all end, if this continues much longer?

 

Please tell me.

 

Best regards,

 

Gamma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say that you/we "no longer have the freedom to say what we like" and then go on to say ...erm. ...what you like.

[Red Forever]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Personally, I despise PC. And social justice authoritarianism. I think it represents alot of what is wrong with contemporary culture, and especially America today. It is a major form of weakness, when you allow yourself to be easily offended, and take everything personally. Granted, there are things that can be perceived as offensive, but allowing yourself to be offended by tiny little things people say and do is a bit much! But, the people who are offended daily, by things others say, are just weak, and would benefit by growing thicker skin. Life can be rough and caustic at times, and for those of us who have grown thick skin, it is like water off a ducks back. No big deal, at all. Think what you want to think. It just does not mean anything to those with self esteem, and a sense of who and what they are. Granted, these are just my opinions, and some will take offense to them. LOL. 

 

The US and the UK are by far the most tolerant countries in the world when it comes to the whole trans, non-binary, amorosexual, decide whatever you want today, if it fits mentality. No other countries are as loose, driftless, and as silly. Hopefully it's a fad and it will pass at some point. 

 

 

The notion that political correctness has “gone mad” is familiar to anyone who follows even vaguely any aspect of modern political or cultural life. The phrase, ostensibly referring to language or action that is designed to avoid offence or harm to protected groups, has become a sharp criticism. It is synonymous with a sort of cultural McCarthyism, usually committed by the left.

 

https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/10/has-political-correctness-gone-too-far

 

 

A Rasmussen poll found that 71 percent of Americans think political correctness is a problem today. When is being politically correct more about civility and politeness? When when does it veer into censorship? When is it justified? When is it not justified?

 

https://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/2016-09-30/has-political-correctness-gone-too-far

 

So you're offended by other people who are offended by things with which you agree. Hmm ......

[Mayhem11]

Political correctness is a derogatory term used by the right. Hi guys.

[novacova]

18 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

But, more of a travesty is the fact that, even just among the Common Man, like you and me, we no longer seem to have the freedom to say what we like.

 

I am talking about the increasing need to self-censor when we discuss almost anything slightly controversial, whether it be with friends, or, maybe now, even in our own minds....perish the THOUGHT!

I’ve always been an independent thinker, aka rebellious, back to my earliest memories and have always come out ahead of the expectations of others. Went against the grain all through school and career and always have spoken my mind. Sure po’d a lot of people along the but always won their respect in the end. And certainly don’t have any plans on holding back here in my late years. From this perspective, the biggest error one can do to themselves is receding and submitting to the norms and commands of others, it robs individual of their full potential of confidence and creativity. The core of individual freedom is to express themselves openly which naturally leads to capitalism, individual freedom of expression and capitalism, can’t have one without the other.

[novacova]

30 minutes ago, Mayhem11 said:

Political correctness is a derogatory term used by the right. Hi guys.

I like using terms such as political correctness and woke, if that makes me derogatory then great, it’s a badge of honor 

[stoner]

i would like to say a few words on all of this......

 

 

[Trippy]

55 minutes ago, stoner said:

i would like to say a few words on all of this......

 

 

Video unavailable

The uploader has not made this video available in your country

[stoner]

57 minutes ago, Trippy said:

Video unavailable

The uploader has not made this video available in your country

Maybe this time.

 

 

[novacova]

24 minutes ago, stoner said:

Maybe this time.

 

 

Got it…you’re mad as hell and you’re not going to take it anymore!

[GammaGlobulin]

28 minutes ago, stoner said:

Maybe this time.

 

 

 

Whether its NEW McCarthyism or OLD McCarthyism....one of the distinguishing characteristics must be  the LOSS of Free speech AND 

Threats of loss of social position, loss of employment, loss of professiional position, such as at a university, due to suppression of freedom of speech, as well as other guaranteed freedoms.

 

So New McCarthyism is NOT just PC.....

It's far more serious these days.

The threat has been notched up a level.

 

Glad I no longer live in that ghastly place where everything we hold dear is and has been crumbling rapidly.

 

I am never going back.

 

Greatest choice of my life was to come to Thailand...

And before that....East Asia.

 

Asia is still standing strong against the barbarians at the gates...

 

 

 

[stoner]

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Threats of loss of social position

 

many young modern men are lost and feel as if they have no purpose in life. 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

As far as I know "McCarthyism" was an anti-communism thing.  As we all know how harmful communism is, I don't see why anyone would be against McCarthyism, new or old.

[stoner]

becoming harder and harder to simply just be. 

 

 

[stoner]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

As far as I know "McCarthyism" was an anti-communism thing.  As we all know how harmful communism is, I don't see why anyone would be against McCarthyism, new or old.

 

op loves trotsky. 

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, stoner said:

op loves trotsky. 

 

Did he ramble on endlessly about nothing also?

[stoner]

Just now, BangkokReady said:

 

Did he ramble on endlessly about nothing also?

 

usually 2nd in command does that. 

[bradiston]

6 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

As far as I know "McCarthyism" was an anti-communism thing.  As we all know how harmful communism is, I don't see why anyone would be against McCarthyism, new or old.

Yeah, but it was used as a weapon to shut down a lot of artists, writers, journalists and playwrights, to name only a few. The witch hunts were always prefaced with the infamous words "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the communist party?" It's happening here. A petition is lodged. An "ethics committee" is set up. A kangaroo court. A collection of right wing judges. Result? 3 to 5 years in Klong Prem. For ethical breaches.

[Patong2021]

6 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

I feel entirely free to speak my mind, but only because I’m retired. If I were still employed, I’d have real concerns about conceivably being dismissed from my job for saying the wrong thing.

 

Look at the case of Israel Folau, a supremely talented Australian rugby star, who was sacked from the team for stating that atheists, homosexuals, fornicators etc were going to hell unless they repented of their evil ways. Now as a lifelong atheist, who’s also guilty of just about every other of the sins enumerated by Folau, with the sole exception of homosexuality, I think Folau’s an idiot who’s left 90% of his brain on the football field, but I also respect his right of freedom of speech. In fact, the most important speech to defend is that with which you profoundly disagree. Can’t get my woke sister, who has no problems with severely punishing people for stating views with which she disagrees, to understand that.

 

Freedom of speech is a very complicated matter, with proper limits on defamatory and threatening speech that democratic governments and courts have figured out over many years. Woke leftists are doing their best to dismantle all of that, and are looking more like those from the furthest of the far right, with their censorship of views with which they disagree.

 

McCarthyism has nothing to do with  the concept of free speech.

 

Mr. Folau's case was not  freedom of speech. His was an imposition of his religious dogma, an interpretation not shared by  people of similar religious faith and who have spent much more time reading the original teachings/writings in their original language and not the revisions made over the centuries.   It is an easy and a common error to confuse Freedom of Speech and Hate Speech.    

 

There has never been an absolute right to say whatever one wants. In the free world, society has set limits on what is considered free speech and what is considered hate speech.  More specifically,  free speech will not and should not  allow anyone to incite hatred or violence against people based upon their race, religion, genetic manifestation, sex, gender identity, ethnicity, disability or national origin.  

 

At times, society has erred on the interpretation of what qualifies as hate speech. This is due in part to past to history which has shown that when groups are allowed to manifest their hateful views, injury and violence occurs. We saw this in Bosnia, in Sierra Leone and in Rwanda/Burundi.  A case can certainly be made that society is far too tolerant of certain groups activities than others. For example, the UK regularly sees Pakistani and Bengali mobs marching in the streets shouting for the death of jews and the imposition of sharia law. When others, usually "white", march in solidarity of their political views, they are  far too quickly attacked and silenced. It is not "wokeism", but an overt and intentional bias.

 

Edited Saturday at 02:15 PM by Patong2021

[CygnusX1]

40 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Mr. Folau's case was not  freedom of speech. His was an imposition of his religious dogma, an interpretation not shared by  people of similar religious faith and who have spent much more time reading the original teachings/writings in their original language and not the revisions made over the centuries.   It is an easy and a common error to confuse Freedom of Speech and Hate Speech.    

 

There has never been an absolute right to say whatever one wants. In the free world, society has set limits on what is considered free speech and what is considered hate speech.  More specifically,  free speech will not and should not  allow anyone to incite hatred or violence against people based upon their race, religion, genetic manifestation, sex, gender identity, ethnicity, disability or national origin.  

In my first post I already stated that’s there’s not an absolute right to say anything, giving the examples of defamatory and threatening speech.

 

I’m certainly not confusing ‘hate speech’ with free speech, as I consider ‘hate speech’ to be one of the more dangerous and pernicious ideas propagated by the woke.

 

Folau wasn’t “imposing” his religious dogma on anyone. He was warning homosexuals, atheists such as myself, and in fact just about everyone else, to repent to save us from hell. Crazy in my view, but as I said before, that’s the kind of speech that is most important to defend. I think anti-vaxxers are crazy, but would never, ever agree with censoring their opinions.

 

You might disagree with someone who states that homosexuality is a sin, or that all religions are ridiculous, or that men who identify as women aren’t really women, but just men pretending to be women, or that men are over-represented in physics and engineering faculties because they’re naturally more interested in those fields, but you have no right to censor the opinions of such people. Speech which really is inciting violence against others is of course a different matter, but that’s definitely not what Folau’s crazy statements were. Actually, under your definition of ‘hate speech’, I’m guilty of inciting hatred against fundamentalist Christians, in calling Folau crazy.

 

 

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

In my first post I already stated that’s there’s not an absolute right to say anything, giving the examples of defamatory and threatening speech.

 

I’m certainly not confusing ‘hate speech’ with free speech, as I consider ‘hate speech’ to be one of the more dangerous and pernicious ideas propagated by the woke.

 

Folau wasn’t “imposing” his religious dogma on anyone. He was warning homosexuals, atheists such as myself, and in fact just about everyone else, to repent to save us from hell. Crazy in my view, but as I said before, that’s the kind of speech that is most important to defend. I think anti-vaxxers are crazy, but would never, ever agree with censoring their opinions.

 

You might disagree with someone who states that homosexuality is a sin, or that all religions are ridiculous, or that men who identify as women aren’t really women, but just men pretending to be women, or that men are over-represented in physics and engineering faculties because they’re naturally more interested in those fields, but you have no right to censor the opinions of such people. Speech which really is inciting violence against others is of course a different matter, but that’s definitely not what Folau’s crazy statements were. Actually, under your definition of ‘hate speech’, I’m guilty of inciting hatred against fundamentalist Christians, in calling Folau crazy.

 

 

You are using the Israel Falau case as an example of impugning free speech and again, I offer that you misunderstand the core issues. Mr. Falau had agreed to a code of conduct. Included in the code of conduct was to not make incendiary comments about people so long as he was paid by his Rugby team and was benefiting from sponsorship money. Rugby Australia's failure was to not have explicitly included every scenario in its code of conduct that Mr.Falau had signed.  Nevertheless he was found to have committed a high-level breach of Rugby Australia’s code of conduct for posting religiously-inspired, anti-gay comments on social media. He was warned not to do  it and that there would be consequences.

 

Mr. Falau who was raised as a mormon, became a pentecostal, which is a fundamentalist faction, that includes such associated sects where followers speak in tongues or pray and handle snakes. He is also an ordained pentacostal minister. Mr. Falau in one of his sermons blamed  the  catastrophic Australian bushfires on Australians lack of morality, and that Australians needed to “repent” for their sins. Was it really necessary to blame the innocent victims of the fires?

 

Former Wallabies player Dan Palmer summed it up succinctly,  The religious freedom angle in the Folau controversy was a red herring. Israel was free and is free to say whatever he likes. He didn’t lose any fundamental rights for doing so - he lost his job, as any of us would if we break contractual obligations.

 

Mr Falau raised $2 million+ from fundamentalist  christians to bring an unjust dismissal case. An out of court settlement  was reached saving Rugby Australia millions in legal fees. 

 

 

 

[CygnusX1]

21 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

You are using the Israel Falau case as an example of impugning free speech and again, I offer that you misunderstand the core issues. Mr. Falau had agreed to a code of conduct. Included in the code of conduct was to not make incendiary comments about people so long as he was paid by his Rugby team and was benefiting from sponsorship money. Rugby Australia's failure was to not have explicitly included every scenario in its code of conduct that Mr.Falau had signed.  Nevertheless he was found to have committed a high-level breach of Rugby Australia’s code of conduct for posting religiously-inspired, anti-gay comments on social media. He was warned not to do  it and that there would be consequences.

 

Mr. Falau who was raised as a mormon, became a pentecostal, which is a fundamentalist faction, that includes such associated sects where followers speak in tongues or pray and handle snakes. He is also an ordained pentacostal minister. Mr. Falau in one of his sermons blamed  the  catastrophic Australian bushfires on Australians lack of morality, and that Australians needed to “repent” for their sins. Was it really necessary to blame the innocent victims of the fires?

 

Former Wallabies player Dan Palmer summed it up succinctly,  The religious freedom angle in the Folau controversy was a red herring. Israel was free and is free to say whatever he likes. He didn’t lose any fundamental rights for doing so - he lost his job, as any of us would if we break contractual obligations.

 

Mr Falau raised $2 million+ from fundamentalist  christians to bring an unjust dismissal case. An out of court settlement  was reached saving Rugby Australia millions in legal fees. 

The fact that Folau was made to sign a contract in which he had to agree not to state his views on morality in public makes this even worse! That’s an outrageous violation of the right to freedom of speech, and is a perfect example of where I said in my original post that if I were still employed, I’d be wary about making statements that  could offend the woke. You state that he didn’t lose any fundamental right of free speech, but he lost his job, due to an outrageous contractual obligation. That’s like saying that someone living in Putin’s Russia has full freedom of speech, but shouldn’t complain if he’s thrown in prison for opposing Putin’s war, as although his speech might be free, what he says has consequences.

 

On speaking in tongues, blaming bushfires on lack of morality, that just reinforces my opinion of Folau’s lack of sanity. I suspect our views on moral issues are similar, it’s just that my understanding of the meaning of free speech is more robust, to say the least!

 

The out of court settlement was confidential, but I trust it cost Rugby Australia a very large sum of money as a result of their unforgivable conduct.

 

 

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

The fact that Folau was made to sign a contract in which he had to agree not to state his views on morality in public makes this even worse! That’s an outrageous violation of the right to freedom of speech, and is a perfect example of where I said in my original post that if I were still employed, I’d be wary about making statements that  could offend the woke. You state that he didn’t lose any fundamental right of free speech, but he lost his job, due to an outrageous contractual obligation. That’s like saying that someone living in Putin’s Russia has full freedom of speech, but shouldn’t complain if he’s thrown in prison for opposing Putin’s war, as although his speech might be free, what he says has consequences.

 

On speaking in tongues, blaming bushfires on lack of morality, that just reinforces my opinion of Folau’s lack of sanity. I suspect our views on moral issues are similar, it’s just that my understanding of the meaning of free speech is more robust, to say the least!

 

The out of court settlement was confidential, but I trust it cost Rugby Australia a very large sum of money as a result of their unforgivable conduct.

 

 

 

Mr. Falau was taking money  subject to conditions. One of the conditions was not to make  statements that would harm people or offend the people who were paying him. He was not asked to do anything illegal or immoral.  In what world do you expect anyone to be obliged to pay someone who is expressing views contrary to the best interests of the business enterprise  paying the person?   Mr. Falau was not stopped from expressing his sentiments. He was however, not going to be paid  for stating things that went against his employer.  Your logic holds that  you expect a burger seller to sponsor a person who says that meat is murder.  Mr. Falau can say whatever he wants, but it is unreasonable to expect people who do not share his social views to be forced to pay him for expressing views that alienate the customer base, the same base that generates the funds that paid his large salary. 

[CygnusX1]

How on earth does someone’s views on morality have anything to do with playing rugby or any other sport? Why do you assume that Folau’s expression of his moral views would alienate rugby’s customer base? When I’m enjoying watching sport played at the highest level I couldn’t care less whether the participants are far left woke, far right, centre, religious fundamentalists, atheists, pro or anti abortion or pro or anti homosexuality. 

 

Why must Folau share the same moral views as his employer? Your analogy of a burger chain not being made to employ someone who’s a campaigner against eating meat fails because in that case there’s a direct link between that particular moral view and his or her employment.

[Kinok Farang]

Congrats GG,your best post yet.You are on to something here.All this nonsense started on university campuses in the US ( where else) where for years now commie lecturers have indoctrinated their oh so gullible pupils with this shiit.Debating with these morons became impossible because any view apposed to theirs was shouted down.

This clown show escalated with,feminism,blm,trans rights and the in thing now is to walk around looking like an Arab until in the UK right now grandmothers are being jailed for hurty words on FB.

Without freedom of expression you have nothing although the mods on here don't go along with that view.The world has gone to shiit.