Retirement Visa 3 Month Money Seasoning Rule

[Jingthing]

There is an obvious land mine with the 3 month money seasoning rule for those using the bank account method for the retirement visa. Retirees are older people. Eventually older people usually have health problems.

Consider this very predictable scenario:

Retiree tops up his account 3 months prior to extension meeting

One month before the meeting, he has a health emergency and is in the hospital for a week, and to exit the hospital, must pay 400K baht for example (of course a credit card would solve this problem, but not everybody has one). No time to wire in money to cover it and still qualify for the extension as it was an unplanned emergency.

The retiree has disqualified for an extension at the worse imaginable time for such troubles. He has time to wire in new money before the extension meeting, but his bank account has gone under 800K during the 3 month period. Turning him into a "bad" farang not worthy of staying.

Do you think immigration would show flexibiliy in such a scenario? It may seem far fetched to you, but to me, these problems are downright predictable. You can substitute a sudden health crisis with any other emergency situation that requires immediately spending large amounts of money. Or even a unexpected problem with wiring agreements that cause delays.

And, yes, for these reasons alone, I do think it is a very unreasonable and onerous rule.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[junkofdavid2]

Even simpler "scenario".

Farang has well more than 800k in his bank account and 1 day before he's due to go to immigration, a "medical emergency" happens and he is hospitalized and he is unable to immigration to extend.

So therefore even the 90 day "permission" to stay rule is onerous as well, as with countless other things.

???

Edited August 4, 2007 by junkofdavid2

[Jingthing]

They seem to come up with these new rules without thinking through the real human effects on their clients. This is again why knowing what I know now, I would advise people not to retire in Thailand. Already done it myself, but wish to help others. What they need to do is provide a visa with much more predictability and security for older retired people. Retirement means moving to the last place you live in your life to most people. Old people don't want to be booted out of their home based on a tiny technicality.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[greenway]

They seem to come up with these new rules without thinking through the real human effects on their clients. This is again why knowing what I know now, I would advise people not to retire in Thailand. Already done it myself, but wish to help others. What they need to do is provide a visa with much more predictability and security for older retired people. Retirement means moving to the last place you live in your life to most people. Old people don't want to be booted out of their home based on a tiny technicality.

You are absolutely right

There is much, MUCH to do for the Thai Government concerning the visa system in general but more specific for those of 50+

I am myself 64 and will next year retire in Thailand.

Greetings out of The Netherlands

[Maestro]

...I would advise people not to retire in Thailand. Already done it myself...

I am confused. Done what? Not retired in Thailand. Or retired in Thailand?

One way or the other, you make a valid point about the risk of a retired person losing his retirement status on a technicality.

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Maestro

[Maxwell Smart]

1 year ago, new regs came out cracking down on 30 day visa runners. At that time, many people in this very forum who had their visas sorted scoffed and laughed at the visa hardships being suffered by those affected. They screamed and yelled at the runners to "get legal" "get a proper visa" etc etc. They offered no solutions, just looked down on all of them. They rejoiced at the crackdown, saying it was a wonderful thing and hoped for more. Meanwhile some wiser posters told them to be careful what they wish for as the "sorted" visa people could be next. Well well, looks like what goes around comes around. I wonder if the scoffed at visa runners are feeling any sympathy right about now. I bet they are saying, get legal! If you can't then get out! The same crap that was flung the visa runner's way last year

[beechguy]

Well anything could happen to anyone. Even a young person can have health issues or be in an accident. Anyway, I have sympathy for those that do have problems through no fault of their own. But really, how many people are actually having visa difficulties? I think much of it has been blown out porportion.

The visa exempt runners just started getting "Tourist" visas. Plenty of others seem to be able to get "O" visas of some type. Extensions of stay based on Business seem to be the only category that became much more dificult to comply with.

[Jingthing]

...I would advise people not to retire in Thailand. Already done it myself...

I am confused. Done what? Not retired in Thailand. Or retired in Thailand?

One way or the other, you make a valid point about the risk of a retired person losing his retirement status on a technicality.

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Maestro

What I have already done is retire in Thailand and fully set up here. Having done that, I am feeling very insecure about the visa situation over the long term. It is really very year to year and so far too many surprises. I moved here thinking I was moving here for the rest of my hopefully long life. My viewpoint has changed radically. Now, I think if I make it here 5 or 10 years before being tripped up by fickle policies at immigration, I will feel lucky. This is not a good feeling. I assume many others are feeling the same insecurity and not voicing it. I want to voice it to warn others to think twice about doing this unless you are massively wealthy (as that can solve most any problem here or most anywhere).

I am not saying that the Thai government has any obligation to make us feel welcome or allow us to live here at all. It would be nice but we can't always get what we want. There are other countries with formal programs that offer much more stability. I happen to love Thailand, but sometimes love can cause you heartbreak and diminish your wealth.

BTW, responding to another poster, I was never one to be in favor of any knee-jerk crackdown.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

...formal programs...

What sometimes – perhaps too often for comfort – seems to be lacking in Thailand are deeds to match the words: the politicians say one thing, the civil servants, following the rules they are given, do another.

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Maestro

[RichardEllis]

...I would advise people not to retire in Thailand. Already done it myself...

I am confused. Done what? Not retired in Thailand. Or retired in Thailand?

One way or the other, you make a valid point about the risk of a retired person losing his retirement status on a technicality.

--------------

Maestro

What I have already done is retire in Thailand and fully set up here. Having done that, I am feeling very insecure about the visa situation over the long term. It is really very year to year and so far too many surprises. I moved here thinking I was moving here for the rest of my hopefully long life. My viewpoint has changed radically. Now, I think if I make it here 5 or 10 years before being tripped up by fickle policies at immigration, I will feel lucky. This is not a good feeling. I assume many others are feeling the same insecurity and not voicing it. I want to voice it to warn others to think twice about doing this unless you are massively wealthy (as that can solve most any problem here or most anywhere).

I am not saying that the Thai government has any obligation to make us feel welcome or allow us to live here at all. It would be nice but we can't always get what we want. There are other countries with formal programs that offer much more stability. I happen to love Thailand, but sometimes love can cause you heartbreak and diminish your wealth.

...

I fully agree. The only conclusion I can come to about all of this is that the Thais like to express personal power from time to time. Possibly it is a self-esteem thing, I don't know, but it is starting to get boring. Much more of this <deleted> and I will be looking for more stable and reasonable pastures to retire to. As much as I like Thailand, I am starting to think the Thais seem to have issues and are reasoning-challenged.

Rich

[Naam]

1 year ago, new regs came out cracking down on 30 day visa runners. At that time, many people in this very forum who had their visas sorted scoffed and laughed at the visa hardships being suffered by those affected. They screamed and yelled at the runners to "get legal" "get a proper visa" etc etc. They offered no solutions, just looked down on all of them. They rejoiced at the crackdown, saying it was a wonderful thing and hoped for more.

i never read a posting of that kind.

[Jingthing]

1 year ago, new regs came out cracking down on 30 day visa runners. At that time, many people in this very forum who had their visas sorted scoffed and laughed at the visa hardships being suffered by those affected. They screamed and yelled at the runners to "get legal" "get a proper visa" etc etc. They offered no solutions, just looked down on all of them. They rejoiced at the crackdown, saying it was a wonderful thing and hoped for more.

i never read a posting of that kind.

I certainly did. There were many. And many people must still feel that way, you would have to assume. The officials are always right according to them. If you can't adjust or get caught on some insane Kafkaesque technicality, good riddance! Glorious Thailand doesn't need scum like you!

Edited August 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[Hans Brix]

1 year ago, new regs came out cracking down on 30 day visa runners. At that time, many people in this very forum who had their visas sorted scoffed and laughed at the visa hardships being suffered by those affected. They screamed and yelled at the runners to "get legal" "get a proper visa" etc etc. They offered no solutions, just looked down on all of them. They rejoiced at the crackdown, saying it was a wonderful thing and hoped for more.

i never read a posting of that kind.

I certainly did. There were many. And many people must still feel that way, you would have to assume. The officials are always right according to them. If you can't adjust or get caught on some insane Kafkaesque technicality, good riddance! Glorious Thailand doesn't need scum like you!

Of course there were a whole bunch of those posts back in Sept when up to 1000 users were reading the threads on the new regulations right after they were announced. Who could ever forget? Anyone making a claim that no such postings were prevalent in those threads, clearly could not have read them. I hope these tightenings on visa requirements don't continue to snowball. They don't do anybody any good at all IMO

Edited August 5, 2007 by Hans Brix

[victor15]

Even simpler "scenario".

Farang has well more than 800k in his bank account and 1 day before he's due to go to immigration, a "medical emergency" happens and he is hospitalized and he is unable to immigration to extend.

So therefore even the 90 day "permission" to stay rule is onerous as well, as with countless other things.

???

I do believe a letter from your doctor will keep the immigration happy

[MarcHolt]

1 year ago, new regs came out cracking down on 30 day visa runners. At that time, many people in this very forum who had their visas sorted scoffed and laughed at the visa hardships being suffered by those affected. They screamed and yelled at the runners to "get legal" "get a proper visa" etc etc. They offered no solutions, just looked down on all of them. They rejoiced at the crackdown, saying it was a wonderful thing and hoped for more.

i never read a posting of that kind.

I certainly did. There were many. And many people must still feel that way, you would have to assume. The officials are always right according to them. If you can't adjust or get caught on some insane Kafkaesque technicality, good riddance! Glorious Thailand doesn't need scum like you!

After 26 years here I've had enough. I'm leaving as soon as I can. And lots of my mates are too. There are greener pastures, and these old bulls don't need the hassle.

Ta-ra!

[CyberViking]

1 year ago, new regs came out cracking down on 30 day visa runners. At that time, many people in this very forum who had their visas sorted scoffed and laughed at the visa hardships being suffered by those affected. They screamed and yelled at the runners to "get legal" "get a proper visa" etc etc. They offered no solutions, just looked down on all of them. They rejoiced at the crackdown, saying it was a wonderful thing and hoped for more.

i never read a posting of that kind.

I certainly did. There were many. And many people must still feel that way, you would have to assume. The officials are always right according to them. If you can't adjust or get caught on some insane Kafkaesque technicality, good riddance! Glorious Thailand doesn't need scum like you!

Of course there were a whole bunch of those posts back in Sept when up to 1000 users were reading the threads on the new regulations right after they were announced. Who could ever forget? Anyone making a claim that no such postings were prevalent in those threads, clearly could not have read them. I hope these tightenings on visa requirements don't continue to snowball. They don't do anybody any good at all IMO

Heck, those kinds of posts still pop up from time to time. Except that back then they were trashing the 30-day visa runners, and now they're trashing the tourist visa runners. Pretty soon, I guess, as the pecking order progresses, the business visa holders will be posting stuff trashing the retirees or something.

The bottom line, I think, is that the Thai gov't, by continually raising the bar on the visa requirements, is showing they want the Westerners out. That's a sentiment that even some locals have quietly expressed to me over the past few months. Oh, they're not hostile about it: just expressions such as "Thailand is for Thais" and such, and the belief that that we Westerners, for better or worse, are now on our way out.

I'm still hanging on and was planning to try for a retirement visa once I hit 50 (military retiree), but as it is now I'd just as soon relocate to a friendlier and more secure tropical location.

[Rob1]

Malaysia is offering the best package 150,000Bt(Ringet) in the bank you can get 10 year visa and have House,Car in your own name.

Sure Thailand does not want us here any more only thing they give us are problems

they do not understand people living here help the economy by spending there money here and also supporting other people.WE do not make money here and take it out of the country we stay here silly buggers

[siam-i-am]

Malaysia is offering the best package 150,000Bt(Ringet) in the bank you can get 10 year visa and have House,Car in your own name.

Sure Thailand does not want us here any more only thing they give us are problems

they do not understand people living here help the economy by spending there money here and also supporting other people.WE do not make money here and take it out of the country we stay here silly buggers

As a retiree of 10 years in Thailand I hate to say this, but your right

[pentri]

Gentlemen, I am so happy that I discovered this site becuase I have learned a great deal from you all. I met a beauty while I was visiting in LOS and decided to retire in a few months and try and make a new life with her there. Many of you have given me much food for thought. I still plan on returning shortly, but now I have a perspective grounded in the realities of your experiences. Men of our relative ages, do we need to live under such lack of security? How much agravation do we want at this point in our lives? I do not have any financial worries, but I have to think-out what my life would be with my lady, living under such precarious conditions. Going through what you all are lamenting about is already disturbing my peace of mind. Life is an adventure, and I am just going to go with it, being prepared now to shift direction at the drop of a hat.

In response to your comments, I was exploring Malayasia's new program, Malaysia, My Second Home. They are offering a 10yr visa(renewable), come and go as you please. You can OWN YOUR OWN PROPERTY(LAND AND HOUSE OR WHATEVER). They have some good deals. This may give LOS and Philippines some competition. It is a Muslim country and it is less libertine than these other places, this may be a good thing. And, they speak more english there than they do in Thailand. Thanks again.

[JetsetBkk]

Malaysia is offering the best package 150,000Bt(Ringet) in the bank you can get 10 year visa and have House,Car in your own name.

My car is in my name.

[JetsetBkk]

they do not understand people living here help the economy by spending there money here and also supporting other people.

Of course they do. They now merely want to see that the money you're spending came from abroad. So get the piece of paper from the bank.

[OneeyedJohn]

A few weeks back at Suan Plu and MFA I looked at all the farangs jumping through the Immigration hoops, and well...I just felt so dismayed at the whole pathetic process we are being put through.

Even the half hour I spent waiting in the British Embassy listening to that posh sounding pr1ck behind his little window, pounding out repeatedly the same advice/instructions made me want to puke. So its not just a Thai thing.

Vote with your feet.

[biggles45]

I am 62 and in a financial position to get a retirement visa. However, I dont want the hassles so I prefer to get a 12 month multiple entry O from the thai consul in my home country and take a trip home every 90 days. No visa renewal hassles, no stress and as I need to come home to visit my elderly mother its a good solution for me.

[Naam]

Of course there were a whole bunch of those posts back in Sept when up to 1000 users were reading the threads on the new regulations right after they were announced.

can you provide a link to a single one of these posts?

[Kaojai]

they do not understand people living here help the economy by spending there money here and also supporting other people.

Of course they do. They now merely want to see that the money you're spending came from abroad. So get the piece of paper from the bank.

Have to agree with you. I can't see what the problem is. Transfer the money into the Thai bank from a foreign source. Get the letter from your Thai bank manager and get your visa renewed.

As far as medical emergencies depleting your bank account just before you reapply is concerned, I don't see that as an issue arising that often for that many people.

It's hardly something you would expect to be incorporated in the rules since they can't be expected to cover all possible contingencies. I still think, under the circumstances, with proper evidence to prove the emergency arose, that Immigrations would deal with it. The officers do have some discretion. Have you actually heard of anyone being deported because of a similar situation? I've found the people in Immigrations to be very pleasant and helpful, but they are also capable of assessing your attitude and are quite capable of responding to it.

You should take responsibility for preparing for emergencies as well. Get medical insurance. Keep a credit card.

Some of you obviously get entirely too emotional about how valuable you think you are to the economy and how wonderful things are in other countries, especially your own countries. You seem to feel you are entitled to preferential treatment and think that everyone in Thailand should be grateful for you being here. Get over it.

The government and the people want you here if you act properly and spend foreign sourced money. Whatever tighterning of the rules (or more exact application of existing rules) has come about has been because too many foreigners have been bending the rules and taking advantage of lax enforcement, not unlike what was happening in Australia, the US and Europe.

I feel sorry for people whose finances are inadequate to meet the Thai requirements and pray I never find myself in that position, but I also understand that if I don't have enough money it's not the fault of the Thai government.

[Krub]

I am 62 and in a financial position to get a retirement visa. However, I dont want the hassles so I prefer to get a 12 month multiple entry O from the thai consul in my home country and take a trip home every 90 days. No visa renewal hassles, no stress and as I need to come home to visit my elderly mother its a good solution for me.

I suppose you mean every year for the trip home ? I would hate to have to fly all those hours every 3 months.....

[Ploughboy]

they do not understand people living here help the economy by spending there money here and also supporting other people.

Of course they do. They now merely want to see that the money you're spending came from abroad. So get the piece of paper from the bank.

Have to agree with you. I can't see what the problem is. Transfer the money into the Thai bank from a foreign source. Get the letter from your Thai bank manager and get your visa renewed.

As far as medical emergencies depleting your bank account just before you reapply is concerned, I don't see that as an issue arising that often for that many people.

It's hardly something you would expect to be incorporated in the rules since they can't be expected to cover all possible contingencies. I still think, under the circumstances, with proper evidence to prove the emergency arose, that Immigrations would deal with it. The officers do have some discretion. Have you actually heard of anyone being deported because of a similar situation? I've found the people in Immigrations to be very pleasant and helpful, but they are also capable of assessing your attitude and are quite capable of responding to it.

You should take responsibility for preparing for emergencies as well. Get medical insurance. Keep a credit card.

Some of you obviously get entirely too emotional about how valuable you think you are to the economy and how wonderful things are in other countries, especially your own countries. You seem to feel you are entitled to preferential treatment and think that everyone in Thailand should be grateful for you being here. Get over it.

The government and the people want you here if you act properly and spend foreign sourced money. Whatever tighterning of the rules (or more exact application of existing rules) has come about has been because too many foreigners have been bending the rules and taking advantage of lax enforcement, not unlike what was happening in Australia, the US and Europe.

I feel sorry for people whose finances are inadequate to meet the Thai requirements and pray I never find myself in that position, but I also understand that if I don't have enough money it's not the fault of the Thai government.

Good post. OP has a point, but I would hopeImmigration would treat such a case with sympathy. Does any one have an example of an actual case(s) where they have not treated such cases with sympathy?

To deal with the so called "trashing" of 30 day visa runners" - there is a world of difference between getting a visa appropriate to your stay here and the problems with the administrative technicalities associated with the visa.

[Matt the Cat]

It’s hard not to notice how rude the Thai immigration people are particularly in all the Asian countries and all the contradictory information they provide that changes on a daily basis depending on the mood which is always awful.

[backflip]

"The bottom line, I think, is that the Thai gov't, by continually raising the bar on the visa requirements, is showing they want the Westerners out."

The problem is that you're not thinking. If the Thai governmentt did not want foreigners here, they could get rid of us a lot easier than the method than they're using. They could cancel all visas. It's as simple as that. End of story. There you go.

[lopburi3]

It’s hard not to notice how rude the Thai immigration people are particularly in all the Asian countries and all the contradictory information they provide that changes on a daily basis depending on the mood which is always awful.

"Thai immigration people" are police and work inside Thailand. You do not meet them in "all the Asian countries".