Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand

[sparky666]

10 hours ago, milesinnz said:

UK government petty mindedness... but then, how can they make up for the money it costs to house and feed the illegal immigrants.... ?

Typical of the UK especially these Labor <deleted> that are in power, they don't give a <deleted> about us hard-working citizens, You can work here all your life, paying your taxes and NI, and what we get in return is a bloody disgrace, a pittance compared to the rest of Europe.

The only people they care about and help are the <deleted> lazy Scum, who've never paid a penny in Taxes or NI in their life, or a <deleted> illegal immigrant, or a Muslim.!   and now they are further robbing more money of the Retirees,  

Talk about Robin Hood taking from the "Rich to give to the Poor."

Starmer & Reeves steals from the "Elderly to give to the Illegals, Muslims & Scum"

 

[theblether]

Once again - and let me be brutal about this. I've said for more than a decade that the best lifestyle is to live in the UK half the year and access all rights and services as a Brit. Do this, and your pension will be protected forever. No one says you need to do 180 days straight - 90 days on, 90 days off. 

 

But here's the true bottom line. Far too many of you chose to entrap yourselves in Thailand. Trapped, and skint, you didn't have the wits to know that exchange rates and inflation would wipe you out. 

 

Just make your way to the airport and come home. 

[sambum]

4 hours ago, Hardcastle P said:

Wrong my friend if he lives in the Philippines it is not frozen .

My post:- "If he lives in the Phillippines he is entitled to the annual increases/increments."

Your post:- Wrong my friend if he lives in the Philippines it is not frozen .

 

I am CONFUSED!!! You are saying if he lives in the Phillippines, his pension is not frozen, and I am saying that if he lives in the Phillippines, he gets the annual increments (i.e. not frozen) and you are telling me that I am wrong?

 

An apology would be acceptable! 🙂

[theblether]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It may be a standards issue plus I don't know if Thai doctors would be willing to requalify with all that entails.

 

A long standing bestie of several decades is from India where his wife qualified as a cancer surgeon. They moved to the UK where she spent two years requalifying for her role. Later, they moved to the US where once again she had to  requalify. She subsequently reached the top of her game at Johns Hopkin where she has remained until today.....but what a long haul, not something that many people would be willing to do I imagine.

 

The best I can work out is it's a language proficiency issue. Former commonwealth countries and American language locations, such as P.I. are preferred. I think it's a bad mistake. 

[jayboy]

52 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Off-topic, but briefly to clarify..

"..registration, insurance, maintenance and petrol into account?"

 

registration? insurance? Don't know about those things! I just drive to the shops.beach etc 🙂

 

For my medical insurance, I am somewhat healthy for my age, no statins etc, no high blood pressure etc, so my premium is low and has never risen since I have never claimed.  $500 deductible on a claim and only my prostate bph/utis excluded (prostate cancer is fully covered).

 

As for frugal living, I don't consider that I live a frugal life.  My rented home was built just a few months ago, so all modern and well-built. I have hearty home-cooked meals every day, swim in the mountain river outside my door every day, go to the beach a few times a week, enjoy my ham radio hobby, teach as a volunteer at the local Burmese school blah blah blah.  My stress levels are zilch, nada, non-existent 🙂

 

 

Well congratulations - you seem to have found a niche which suits you well.

 

I don't know what kind of benevolent insurance company you have.I also have not made a significant claim for more than twenty year and have a £ 1800 deductible.But there is no "no claims bonus" element for not making claims (ie different from motor insurance) and the premium price increases every year more than the inflation rate.The state of my health - which is good - is irrelevant as far as the calculation annual premium is concerned.I believe there is an element of advancing years being factored in to the premium.

[Unamerican]

11 hours ago, spermwhale said:

At their age they cannot get health insurance in Thailand and the coverage from the NHS doesn't extend to Thailand.

They can get it, but at a cost! 

Thete is no such things as “coverage from the NHS” as it is not an insurance system. 

[sambum]

7 minutes ago, sparky666 said:

Typical of the UK especially these Labor <deleted> that are in power, they don't give a <deleted> about us hard-working citizens, You can work here all your life, paying your taxes and NI, and what we get in return is a bloody disgrace, a pittance compared to the rest of Europe.

The only people they care about and help are the <deleted> lazy Scum, who've never paid a penny in Taxes or NI in their life, or a <deleted> illegal immigrant, or a Muslim.!   and now they are further robbing more money of the Retirees,  

Talk about Robin Hood taking from the "Rich to give to the Poor."

Starmer & Reeves steals from the "Elderly to give to the Illegals, Muslims & Scum"

 

 

Couldn't agree more, and not let's forget the £16,000 worth of free clothes that Starmer got, or that his Finance Minister finds it a struggle to get by on £86,000 p.a. (plus expenses) or that his Assistant gets paid more than he does (£170,000 p.a. plus expenses - £3000 more than the PM) And then he tells us, after taking £300 Winter Fuel Allowance off most pensioners, that "every pensioner, EVERY pensioner will be better off under Labour"!!!

I can't say what I really think, or I'd be banned, but suffice it to say that the man "talks a bad talk," and he and his party have  only been in power 3 months, and already they all seem to be feathering their nests a trifle early in their governance.

[Burma Bill]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand.

 

Not just Thailand, UK ex-pat pensions are also frozen in neighbouring Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia and Singapore.

 

When I lived in Thailand at the age of 65 I started on 102 GBP per week. 15 years later at 80, I still get 102GBP per week. Fortunately I get 2 additional UK index linked Government and Local Government pensions.

 

For reference should anyone be considering moving from Thailand-

 

Here is a comprehensive list of countries where UK State Pensions are currently frozen, according to data provided by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP):

 

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Antarctic Territories (British), Antigua, Antilles (Netherlands), Argentina, Ascension Island, Australia, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbuda, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bissau (Guinea), Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma (Myanmar), Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde Islands, Cayman Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China (People’s Republic), Colombia, Comoro Islands, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Cote D’Ivoire, Cuba, Democratic Republic of the Congo (Zaire), Djibouti, Dominica (Commonwealth), Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Falkland Islands & Dep, Faroe Islands, Fiji, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Greenland, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Jordan, Kampuchea, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Macau, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Nepal, Nevis (St Kitts-Nevis), New Caledonia, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norfolk Island, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Principe and Sao Tome, Qatar, Republic of Armenia, Republic of Azerbaijan, Republic of Belarus, Republic of Georgia, Republic of Kazakhstan, Republic of Kyrgyzstan, Republic of Moldova, Republic of Tajikistan, Republic of the Congo, Republic of Turkmenistan, Republic of Uzbekistan, Republic of Yemen, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Sabah, San Marino, Sarawak, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sharjah, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Korea, Sri Lanka, St Helena & Deps, St Lucia, St Vincent & Grenadines, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syria, Tahiti, Taiwan, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Tristan Da Cunha, Tunisia, Turks & Caicos Islands, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Vatican City State, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands (British), Western Samoa, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

I didn't know. are you calling me a fool??

Well, not knowing seems to be your excuse. Is it a valid one? You're a grown man. You can take care of yourself. You can do your own research. Yes. I'm calling you a fool!

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

Well, not knowing seems to be your excuse. Is it a valid one? You're a grown man. You can take care of yourself. You can do your own research. Yes. I'm calling you a fool!

Another keyboard warrior. A big man hiding behind his keyboard.

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Chivas said:

 

For christs sake you've moved the goalposts completely

 

Get back on topic the OP or the subjects of it are claiming they were "blindsided"

 

Bollacks....

 

No I am not moving the goalposts - merely showing examples of if there is a "will" (or want) to change something that has been in place for many years - it can be changed. For instance, if there was a "will" in the Government to pay all pensioners their annual increments regardless of where they live, they would do it - the cost is minor compared to what it costs to look after illegal immigrants, and what we give in Foreign Aid (Sorry, off topic again! )  P.S. A very subtle signature to your post - I hope it catches on! 🙂 

Edited 2 hours ago by sambum

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

I see your point, but you will have to keep changing your addresses every six months.

No. You're resident in Philippines if you live there for 6+ months of the year. Or that's my understanding. I simply rang DWP and gave them my address and a phone number in Philippines. They were very friendly and totally unconcerned. Sure, you could check with DWP what the exact rules are. For instance, I'm not sure if it has to be a block of 6 months or is it just total days spent there. Of course there are many other countries where your UK pension doesn't get frozen. I posted a link higher up. Turkey has always seemed a possible alternative. Here it is again:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

[bradiston]

13 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

 

Not just Thailand, UK ex-pat pensions are also frozen in neighbouring Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia and Singapore.

 

When I lived in Thailand at the age of 65 I started on 102 GBP per week. 15 years later at 80, I still get 102GBP per week. Fortunately I get 2 additional UK index linked Government and Local Government pensions.

 

For reference should anyone be considering moving from Thailand-

 

Here is a comprehensive list of countries where UK State Pensions are currently frozen, according to data provided by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP):

 

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Antarctic Territories (British), Antigua, Antilles (Netherlands), Argentina, Ascension Island, Australia, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbuda, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bissau (Guinea), Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma (Myanmar), Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde Islands, Cayman Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China (People’s Republic), Colombia, Comoro Islands, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Cote D’Ivoire, Cuba, Democratic Republic of the Congo (Zaire), Djibouti, Dominica (Commonwealth), Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Falkland Islands & Dep, Faroe Islands, Fiji, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Greenland, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Jordan, Kampuchea, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Macau, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Nepal, Nevis (St Kitts-Nevis), New Caledonia, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norfolk Island, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Principe and Sao Tome, Qatar, Republic of Armenia, Republic of Azerbaijan, Republic of Belarus, Republic of Georgia, Republic of Kazakhstan, Republic of Kyrgyzstan, Republic of Moldova, Republic of Tajikistan, Republic of the Congo, Republic of Turkmenistan, Republic of Uzbekistan, Republic of Yemen, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Sabah, San Marino, Sarawak, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sharjah, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Korea, Sri Lanka, St Helena & Deps, St Lucia, St Vincent & Grenadines, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syria, Tahiti, Taiwan, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Tristan Da Cunha, Tunisia, Turks & Caicos Islands, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Vatican City State, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands (British), Western Samoa, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

And here's a list where it's NOT frozen:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

[Nicholas Paul KNIGHT]

This story is a joke, more so when you consider that many so-called Pensioner Benefits are no longer available in the UK . 

Most sane informed people will know full well the situation regarding their State Pension, Benefits and whether or not it is uprated in the country they are going to retire to , so to state What do I do ? , Simple answer read the small print and plan accordingly `. to give an interview bemoaning their lot is ludicrous and brings attention to their complete lack of any form of planning .

Although many would like to see the situation change , it would be nice but also would mean many would pay more income tax which will never benefit the expats living overseas just those that reside in the UK. 

It is true those who served in the emergency services do have their pensions uprated normally by the CPI as published in October , the retired Military and Civil servants are the same I believe.

It only really effects those with no other pension at all and I would be surprised that that number would no longer be large any more as even 50 years ago Companies and others were pushing for Company pensions or something similar to assist the workforce. Only those that refused to invest in their future after work will now feel disadvantaged

Edited 2 hours ago by Nicholas Paul KNIGHT

[Unamerican]

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

the next 15 years that I expect to live.

An 89-year old’s question: how did you work that out? 

[bradiston]

9 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Another keyboard warrior. A big man hiding behind his keyboard.

Wtf is wrong with you? Looking for a fight? Anytime, anywhere.

 

Wind up merchant to be sure.

[Unamerican]

23 minutes ago, sambum said:

his Finance Minister finds it a struggle to get by on £86,000 p.a.

Wow!  Such people get less than I do: how amazing. 

[baansgr]

5 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

I've lived for 15 years on a frozen pension.

15 years of increases adds up to a tidy amount over that period and would make a big difference to me.

That is on top of the UK government pension being the lowest in Western Europe, in some cases by a very wide margin.

All this while the millionaires and billionaires hide their money off shore and pay no taxes.

Very unfair.

£221 per week equals €1,150 per month, UK pension is actually quite good for only 35 years of contributions compared to most euros that need 44 years 

[dunroaming]

12 hours ago, Gknrd said:

That is been going on for ever, why retire there if you loose?  Best to make it seem like you live in the UK I would think. Surely there are ways around it.

You need to keep a UK address (could easily be a relatives) and a bank account for that address,  where your pension can be paid into.  However if it is found that you are not living in the UK then you may well be in trouble.

 

The British pension is pretty pathetic compared to other European countries anyway.  Hard to enjoy life if that is all you have to live on, even in Thailand. 

[Unamerican]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Medical nothing, I'm ok with death.

BUT It’s not dying that costs a lot of money! 

Edited 1 hour ago by Unamerican
Emphasis added!

[tonypattaya]

They should get a bigger pension than if they had stayed in the UK. Older people cost the NHS a fortune, whereas there is no such cost once they move abroad,

[Foresttrump]

I like the way this topic stirs the emotions of so many, no matter which part of the world you are from.  Just think if your private pension provider introduced the same rules because you weren't living in the same country you took out your policy.

 

The overriding consensus should be if you contributed as per government requirements you should be entitled to the same benefits as everyone else who did the same regardless of address.  

 

This will never be addressed, so as many will say do your homework and live your retirement as best you can with as little or as much as you have.  Thailand is a great place to do this and if you can't afford to be here you can't afford to be anywhere.

 

 

[Bday Prang]

3 hours ago, proton said:

This appears to be wishfull thinking, I posted this earlier, a poster living in Thailand but not telling them got a penalty and had to pay the over payments back- regarding his state pension, not pension credit or any other benefits:

but the end of the letter states...."lf you are receiving benefits and the amount you have been overpaid has not been repaid within one month of the date of this letter deductions from your benefit will be taken to repay this. 

  

So that reads to me that if the person has not settled the over payment of any pension payments and associated fine  within a month,  they can seek to  recover money by reducing their  benefits ,( if they are receiving any)   however   not from their pension

[proton]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

but the end of the letter states...."lf you are receiving benefits and the amount you have been overpaid has not been repaid within one month of the date of this letter deductions from your benefit will be taken to repay this. 

  

So that reads to me that if the person has not settled the over payment of any pension payments and associated fine  within a month,  they can seek to  recover money by reducing their  benefits ,( if they are receiving any)   however   not from their pension

 

The state pension IS legally a benefit, so they can.

[Kinok Farang]

13 hours ago, sumongkhwai said:

I read somewhere that Nana and nearby have some outstanding beeches in Thailand.

My favourite 🌳 too.

[suspectdevice]

15 hours ago, G_Money said:

That is pretty f——- up. What difference does it make where they live if one is vetted and qualified.

 

 

Typical uk government. When they can't squeeze anything from you, they are no longer interested and will make it harder for you to receive any entitlement.

[tanner]

13 hours ago, Gknrd said:

That is been going on for ever, why retire there if you loose?  Best to make it seem like you live in the UK I would think. Surely there are ways around it.

Many crafty Brits use a relatives address and continue to receive full pension including heating allowance,  I personally know some who have lived over 20 years in Thailand!.

[jori123]

9 hours ago, proton said:

 

Seems this is not the case, here is a letter posted on here some time ago from a poster who had a letter not only claiming over paid pension back but also a penalty fine They do not say how they found out he was in Thailand but when they do the pension is not just reset to the original amount, they want the over payment back, but it's claimed on here they cannot or do not.

 

 

Yes ,we all know how this letter came about, and jealousy was the reason. The weird "confessed" to a payment some 5 years before totalling £250 and wanted the DWP to take action against himself,(letter as proof)it  does spring up time to time.   The author has been commenting earlier, if he wants to appear again please do, his past comments are noteworthy

[Bday Prang]

11 minutes ago, proton said:

 

The state pension IS legally a benefit, so they can.

I'm no expert by any means , but   a previous poster uploaded this .....

 

Sanctionable benefits

The following benefits can be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud:

• Carer’s Allowance
• Employment and Support Allowance
• Housing Benefit
• Incapacity Benefit
• Income Support
• Industrial Death Benefit
• Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
• Industrial Injuries Reduced Earnings Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Retirement Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Unemployability Supplement
• Jobseeker’s Allowance
• Severe Disablement Allowance
• Pension Credit
• Universal Credit
• War Disablement Pension
• War Widow’s Pension
• War Pension Unemployability Supplement
• War Pension Allowance for Lower Standard of Occupation
• Widowed Mother’s/Parent’s Allowance
• Working Tax Credit

I am hoping, that, if you are correct, and I  have no reason doubt that you are, in saying that the state pension is classed as a "benefit"  Just  maybe as per the above list, the state pension is not classed as a "sanctionable" benefit

To be honest I don't have a clue anymore

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, proton said:

 

This appears to be wishfull thinking, I posted this earlier, a poster living in Thailand but not telling them got a penalty and had to pay the over payments back- regarding his state pension, not pension credit or any other benefits:

 

You have been overpaid State Retirement Pension amounting to £194.30 for the period 16 April 2016 to 26 May 2017.

The overpayment occurred because on 25 June 2015 you misrepresented the fact that the residential status of yourself, or one of your dependents within Great Britain or Northern Ireland had changed Social Security law allows us to recover this amount from you

Civil Penalty

Social Security law allows a financial penalty to be imposed if it is decided that you were overpaid benefit because you:

. negligently made incorrect statements regarding your claim without taking reasonable steps to correct them or

o failed to provide information or evidence about the claim without reasonable excuse or

",,':,

.promptly without reasonable excuse.

failed to report changes in circumstances regarding the claim

We have decided that a Civil Penalty of £50 is appropriate because you negligently made an incorrect statement negligently gave incorrect information in connection with your benefit claim/award without taking reasonable steps to correct the error, resulting in an overpayment of benefit to you. The amount of the penalty has been added to the balance of the overpayment above. Under Social Security law, you must pay this penalty in addition to paying back the overpayment.

The total amount of State Retirement Pension and Civil Penalty you have to repay is £244.30.

How to pay
lf you already have an outstanding balance with us this debt will be added to it. We will contact you if we need to review how much you are currently paying back.

Contacting Debt Management
Please call Debt management on 0800 916 0647 or for textphone users 0800 916 0651 from the UK or 0161 904 1233 from outside of the UK, even if you cannot pay the amount in full you can discuss mutually agreeable repayment terms. Advisors are available from 8.00am to 8.00pm Monday to Friday and 9.00am to 4.00pm on Saturday.

By deduction from benefit
lf you are receiving benefits and the amount you have been overpaid has not been repaid within one month of the date of this letter deductions from your benefit will be taken to repay this. There is no right of appeal against these deductions.

I'd like to see the original letter. This appears to be a mock-up.