A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin / Orban / Kim Jong Un

[WDSmart]

22 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

No one calls it a permit anywhere in the USA. Its legally not even a permit.

 

The limits of the bots are exposed again. Bye.

The general definition of "permit" just means having permission to do something or be somewhere. There are lots of specific terms for different kinds of permits, including a lease, a ticket, a license, a visa, etc... 

isThe expansiveness of RIs are demonstrated again. Hello.

[Inderpland]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Wow. You just set a new record for demonstrating you either arent from the US or arent real. 

Well, if true that makes two of you then.

But do you know this topic is not restricted to Americans only?

[baansgr]

I think starmer should be included with those lot...he is imprisoning people for a FB tweet...free speech is the bedrock of democracy and starmer and his jack    boot commie Nazis have taken that right away

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You do know that Obama let Putin take Crimea and Donbas, and that he refused to provide defensive weapons to Ukraine, yes? 

 

You Also know that Trump started supplying Ukraine with weapons, imposed sanctions on Russia, and killed 200 Russians in Syria, yes? 

 

And finally, you remember Biden taking office and stopping arms shipments to Ukraine and lifting the sanctions Trump had imposed on Russia, correct? 

 

I note you don't disclaim your support for authoritarianism. Your post is somewhat more nuanced than you suggest:

 

Obama’s White House approved other aid. In total, from 2014 to 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine. Under Obama, the federal government started the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which sent other kinds of U.S. military equipment to the country. From federal fiscal years 2016 to 2019, which overlap with Obama and Trump, Congress appropriated $850 million.

 

Fact check: Did Trump send Ukraine weapons that Obama and Biden withheld? (wral.com)

 

Russian mercenaries were killed in a defensive action by US forces.

 

“The Russian high command in Syria assured us it was not their people,” defence secretary Jim Mattis told senators in testimony last month. He said he directed Gen Joseph F Dunford Jr, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, “for the force, then, to be annihilated.” 

“And it was.”

 

The truth about the brutal four-hour battle between Russian mercenaries and US commandos in Syria | The Independent | The Independent

 

Biden lifted sanctions on the Russian gas pipeline in support of energy for Germany / EU. Aggressive sanctions were later imposed e.g.

FACT SHEET: Biden Administration Expands U.S. Sanctions Authorities to Target Financial Facilitators of Russia’s War Machine | The White House

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Damn, you were doing good up to the last sentence.

The last sentence is an opinion. The others were facts.

 

I understand, you don't like opinions that differ from yours.

[Lacessit]

53 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You do know that Obama let Putin take Crimea and Donbas, and that he refused to provide defensive weapons to Ukraine, yes? 

 

You Also know that Trump started supplying Ukraine with weapons, imposed sanctions on Russia, and killed 200 Russians in Syria, yes? 

 

And finally, you remember Biden taking office and stopping arms shipments to Ukraine and lifting the sanctions Trump had imposed on Russia, correct? 

 

 

Isn't it a bit difficult to call Obama a warmonger if he opted not to go to war over Crimea?

 

The 200 Russians killed in Syria were in response to an attack on a US base where Americans got killed. If Trump had squibbed that, the whole military establishment would have been against him. With good reason.

 

Biden white-anted Congress by authorising sales of obsolete and surplus weapons to Ukraine through other compliant countries.

 

Trump did not impose sanctions on Russia. Congress did.

 

Are you trying to rewrite history?

[Thingamabob]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No.

I watch direct sources from Russia state media every day.

You should too and then you would know what they're really about.

You mean you watch RT ?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, thesetat2013 said:

Wow... so hateful and paranoid.. I think you are one who has been blinded by Harris's rhetoric. You maybe should take a step back and look at things past your Democrat hero. 

You also seem pretty misguided about Hispanics. My guess is you must be from some hick town that does not really have a hispanic population. Hmm..

Vapid clueless flame.

My pov about Trump long precedes the rise of Harris.

I knew he was a con man even before he came down that infamous elevator.

In the US I always lived in big cities including about 10 years smack in the middle of a massive Latino barrio. 

Edited October 17 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Thingamabob said:

You mean you watch RT ?

No. RT is propaganda for westerners. You don't learn anything from that.

[Thingamabob]

Just now, Jingthing said:

No. RT is propaganda for westerners. You don't learn anything from that.

So what are your sources ?

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

So what are your sources ?

The main one is Russian Media Monitor because thats all they do is to show direct Russian state tv with translations and no commenrary.

I also look at several other sources that have clips of state tv and other Russian media sources but with commentary.

 

 

A random example:

 

 

Edited October 17 by Jingthing

[Yagoda]

42 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The last sentence is an opinion. The others were facts.

 

I understand, you don't like opinions that differ from yours.

No its that your facts were good and its your opinion thats stupid.

[Yagoda]

1 hour ago, Inderpland said:

Well, if true that makes two of you then.

But do you know this topic is not restricted to Americans only?

I will be in Bangkok this weekend, $5,000 says you are a liar. Wanna meet up and look at my passport? Ill bring the cash and a video camera. How about it, big talker?

[Inderpland]

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

I will be in Bangkok this weekend, $5,000 says you are a liar. Wanna meet up and look at my passport? Ill bring the cash and a video camera. How about it, big talker?

If you're gonna be in Bangkok this weekend then all I can say to the Bangkokians is hide your bins or they will be dipped in!

 

You will bring cash and a video camera (and maybe an American friend)? I'll have you know that I'm not that kind of guy! Not judging, but it's not my thing.

[Celsius]

a topic that only a very scared  extreme leftie would come up with.

 

The fear is real.

[Yagoda]

2 minutes ago, Inderpland said:

If you're gonna be in Bangkok this weekend then all I can say to the Bangkokians is hide your bins or they will be dipped in!

 

You will bring cash and a video camera (and maybe an American friend)? I'll have you know that I'm not that kind of guy! Not judging, but it's not my thing.

Cluck cluck. Another one showed up.

 

They arent bins, they are dumpsters.  Its called  dumpster diving. Chicks in the USA do it in the ones outside Sephora and Ulta and then Instagram their finds

[TimBKK]

13 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

I will be in Bangkok this weekend, $5,000 says you are a liar. Wanna meet up and look at my passport? Ill bring the cash and a video camera. How about it, big talker?

 

[WDSmart]

21 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

1 hour ago, Inderpland said:

Well, if true that makes two of you then.

But do you know this topic is not restricted to Americans only?

I will be in Bangkok this weekend, $5,000 says you are a liar. Wanna meet up and look at my passport? Ill bring the cash and a video camera. How about it, big talker?

Yagoda, be careful! I think if you look up the rules of this forum, you'll find it is NOT restricted to Americans only. Europeans, Asians, Australians, Middle-Easters, Africans, etc., can ALL participate in it.

[0ffshore360]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Yagoda, be careful! I think if you look up the rules of this forum, you'll find it is NOT restricted to Americans only. Europeans, Asians, Australians, Middle-Easters, Africans, etc., can ALL participate in it.

🤐

[bubblegum]

23 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Translation: I believe whatever propaganda is spewed to me as long as it supports my obsessions.

Projecting as per usual

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

a topic that only a very scared  extreme leftie would come up with.

 

The fear is real.

Lefties like General Milley and Liz Cheney?

The fear is real?

Among maga fascists for sure as their dear leader's main game is fear mongering.

They're eatimg the cats!

They're eating the dogs!

[Lacessit]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Lefties like General Milley and Liz Cheney?

The fear is real?

Among maga fascists for sure as their dear leader's main game is fear mongering.

They're eatimg the cats!

They're eating the dogs!

 

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

Nice try, but it's the left claiming "democracy is on the ballot, not the right. 

[Yellowtail]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Lefties like General Milley and Liz Cheney?

The fear is real?

Among maga fascists for sure as their dear leader's main game is fear mongering.

They're eatimg the cats!

They're eating the dogs!

 

 

Yes, leftists like General Milley and Liz Cheney. 

 

Isn't it hilarious that 20,000 Haitians have been dumped into a community of 40,000 citizens by the Biden-Harris Administration? They are negatively affecting the lives of many longtime residents, but ha ha, it's a red state, do eff em, right?

 

And the Venezuelan gangs that the Biden-Harris Administration have let into the country have not taken over the whole city like that liar Trump said. They've only taken over a "handful" of apartment complexes, so what's the big deal?

 

 

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Nice try, but it's the left claiming "democracy is on the ballot, not the right. 

OK, I'll try again.....

[ericbj]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

How many of those warheads are actually functional? The corruption in the Russian military has exposed huge deficits in maintenance. It is estimated one-third of the Russian defence budget went into Shoigu's pocket alone.

 

Russia's only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, was launched in 1985. Thirty years on, it is still not operational. It is in drydock in Murmansk, for yet another round of repairs.

 

The success of Russia's attempted modernization of its military is illustrated by a recent test firing, when the rocket blew up in its silo.

 

IMO the sums spent on Ukraine are a good investment. It would cost a lot more to have US boots on the ground, defending NATO countries.

"How many of those warheads are actually functional? The corruption in the Russian military has exposed huge deficits in maintenance."

 

The ultimate, anonymous source of this 'exposure' is perhaps the same as that which told us in 2022 that Russia was about to run out of artillery shells, that the Russian military was demoralised and about to disintegrate, and similar disingenuous 'intel'.

 

"It is estimated one-third of the Russian defence budget went into Shoigu's pocket alone."

 

Who estimated it?  And how did they arrive at this figure?

 

"Russia's only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, was launched in 1985. Thirty years on, it is still not operational. It is in drydock in Murmansk, for yet another round of repairs."

 

Aircraft carriers are no longer the queens of naval combat.  They make beautifully expensive targets for modern precision missiles, whether airborne or aquatic; and require a dense screen of smaller vessels to protect them.  They are of use only to powerful nations that seek to project their military power far from their homeland, far across the oceans.  [Study the case of US Navy versus Houthis]
A land-based aerodrome can be better protected;  can be put out of action for a while, until repaired;  but it cannot be sunk.

 

"The success of Russia's attempted modernization of its military is illustrated by a recent test firing, when the rocket blew up in its silo."

 

Please explain why the U.S. government, until recent sanctions kicked in, was purchasing Russian-made rocket-motors for its missiles.
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/8/5/us-kicking-russian-rocket-engines-to-the-curb

 

"IMO the sums spent on Ukraine are a good investment."

 

An excellent investment for the mega-rentier-capitalists heavily invested in the armaments industry.
As an example, their capital gains amounted to nearly 1,000% over the course of the Afghan War.  They needed another war to replace it.
But for the average American?  Was this really so?

 

"It would cost a lot more to have US boots on the ground, defending NATO countries."

 

There was no need to defend NATO countries.  The boot was on the NATO foot.

That is, until Putin, increasingly regarded as a weakling by many of his countrymen for failure to take effective action against the ongoing massacre of ethnic Russians, did what NATO had been hoping he would do.
But the outcome, to be achieved by sanctions, has not been what NATO expected.  Circumstances have changed since the Soviet economy was destroyed by crushing the oil price.

 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

I note you don't disclaim your support for authoritarianism. Your post is somewhat more nuanced than you suggest:

 

Obama’s White House approved other aid. In total, from 2014 to 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine. Under Obama, the federal government started the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which sent other kinds of U.S. military equipment to the country. From federal fiscal years 2016 to 2019, which overlap with Obama and Trump, Congress appropriated $850 million.

 

Fact check: Did Trump send Ukraine weapons that Obama and Biden withheld? (wral.com)

 

Russian mercenaries were killed in a defensive action by US forces.

 

“The Russian high command in Syria assured us it was not their people,” defence secretary Jim Mattis told senators in testimony last month. He said he directed Gen Joseph F Dunford Jr, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, “for the force, then, to be annihilated.” 

“And it was.”

 

The truth about the brutal four-hour battle between Russian mercenaries and US commandos in Syria | The Independent | The Independent

 

Biden lifted sanctions on the Russian gas pipeline in support of energy for Germany / EU. Aggressive sanctions were later imposed e.g.

FACT SHEET: Biden Administration Expands U.S. Sanctions Authorities to Target Financial Facilitators of Russia’s War Machine | The White House

 

 

Too many events and so-called fact checking here. In simple terms, Trump was the only one to allow the shipment of weapons (importantly Javelin missiles) to the Ukraine, before Putin invaded. 

 

Obama stuck to his refusal to provide weapons or other lethal military gear to Ukraine.

https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110331/documents/HMKP-116-JU00-20191211-SD994.pdf

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, ericbj said:

"How many of those warheads are actually functional? The corruption in the Russian military has exposed huge deficits in maintenance."

 

The ultimate, anonymous source of this 'exposure' is perhaps the same as that which told us in 2022 that Russia was about to run out of artillery shells, that the Russian military was demoralised and about to disintegrate, and similar disingenuous 'intel'.

 

"It is estimated one-third of the Russian defence budget went into Shoigu's pocket alone."

 

Who estimated it?  And how did they arrive at this figure?

 

"Russia's only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, was launched in 1985. Thirty years on, it is still not operational. It is in drydock in Murmansk, for yet another round of repairs."

 

Aircraft carriers are no longer the queens of naval combat.  They make beautifully expensive targets for modern precision missiles, whether airborne or aquatic; and require a dense screen of smaller vessels to protect them.  They are of use only to powerful nations that seek to project their military power far from their homeland, far across the oceans.  [Study the case of US Navy versus Houthis]
A land-based aerodrome can be better protected;  can be put out of action for a while, until repaired;  but it cannot be sunk.

 

"The success of Russia's attempted modernization of its military is illustrated by a recent test firing, when the rocket blew up in its silo."

 

Please explain why the U.S. government, until recent sanctions kicked in, was purchasing Russian-made rocket-motors for its missiles.
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/8/5/us-kicking-russian-rocket-engines-to-the-curb

 

"IMO the sums spent on Ukraine are a good investment."

 

An excellent investment for the mega-rentier-capitalists heavily invested in the armaments industry.
As an example, their capital gains amounted to nearly 1,000% over the course of the Afghan War.  They needed another war to replace it.
But for the average American?  Was this really so?

 

"It would cost a lot more to have US boots on the ground, defending NATO countries."

 

There was no need to defend NATO countries.  The boot was on the NATO foot.

That is, until Putin, increasingly regarded as a weakling by many of his countrymen for failure to take effective action against the ongoing massacre of ethnic Russians, did what NATO had been hoping he would do.
But the outcome, to be achieved by sanctions, has not been what NATO expected.  Circumstances have changed since the Soviet economy was destroyed by crushing the oil price.

 

 

I wonder who wrote all this? J. M. Barrie?

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, ericbj said:

"How many of those warheads are actually functional? The corruption in the Russian military has exposed huge deficits in maintenance."

 

The ultimate, anonymous source of this 'exposure' is perhaps the same as that which told us in 2022 that Russia was about to run out of artillery shells, that the Russian military was demoralised and about to disintegrate, and similar disingenuous 'intel'.

 

"It is estimated one-third of the Russian defence budget went into Shoigu's pocket alone."

 

Who estimated it?  And how did they arrive at this figure?

 

"Russia's only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, was launched in 1985. Thirty years on, it is still not operational. It is in drydock in Murmansk, for yet another round of repairs."

 

Aircraft carriers are no longer the queens of naval combat.  They make beautifully expensive targets for modern precision missiles, whether airborne or aquatic; and require a dense screen of smaller vessels to protect them.  They are of use only to powerful nations that seek to project their military power far from their homeland, far across the oceans.  [Study the case of US Navy versus Houthis]
A land-based aerodrome can be better protected;  can be put out of action for a while, until repaired;  but it cannot be sunk.

 

"The success of Russia's attempted modernization of its military is illustrated by a recent test firing, when the rocket blew up in its silo."

 

Please explain why the U.S. government, until recent sanctions kicked in, was purchasing Russian-made rocket-motors for its missiles.
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2022/8/5/us-kicking-russian-rocket-engines-to-the-curb

 

"IMO the sums spent on Ukraine are a good investment."

 

An excellent investment for the mega-rentier-capitalists heavily invested in the armaments industry.
As an example, their capital gains amounted to nearly 1,000% over the course of the Afghan War.  They needed another war to replace it.
But for the average American?  Was this really so?

 

"It would cost a lot more to have US boots on the ground, defending NATO countries."

 

There was no need to defend NATO countries.  The boot was on the NATO foot.

That is, until Putin, increasingly regarded as a weakling by many of his countrymen for failure to take effective action against the ongoing massacre of ethnic Russians, did what NATO had been hoping he would do.
But the outcome, to be achieved by sanctions, has not been what NATO expected.  Circumstances have changed since the Soviet economy was destroyed by crushing the oil price.

 

If Russia has not run out of artillery shells, why is it buying them from North Korea?

 

If its military is not demoralised, why are there multiple recordings of soldiers complaining about their equipment, food and officers?

 

What massacre of ethnic Russians? Creditable links please. IIRC Stalin starved 6 million Ukrainians to death during the Holodomor.

 

Putin annexed Crimea illegally. He then repeated the dose by invading the Donbas.

 

Quite true, aircraft carriers are more vulnerable. It does not change the fact America is the only country that can project power globally. I suggest you check out how many military aircraft America has, compared to everyone else.

 

The competence of the Russian navy can be measured by the fact it has been forced to retreat from Sevastopol by a nation with no navy of its' own.

 

Putin has consistently said he wants to restore the Soviet Union to its former glory. Ukraine is only the first step in achieving his aspiration.

 

NATO is a defensive treaty. There is nothing in its articles which permits the invasion of any non-NATO country.

 

I don't know where you get the idea Putin is regarded as a weakling. Opponents are regularly poisoned, defenestrated, or imprisoned. He has made some major mistakes by listening to the cadre of intelligence functionaries he brought with him into power. They tell him what they think he wants to hear.

 

Quite a political coup for Putin, when Finland and Sweden applied to join NATO.

 

The Russian Federation is in the process of destroying itself. The Western technologists who kept their oil flowing are gone. The demographic is 87 men to 100 women. Interest rates at 18%. No one wants rubles. The home-grown engineers and scientists are all at retirement age. The best and brightest have fled Russia, to escape being drafted for the Ukraine meat grinder. The purchasers of Russian military equipment are having buyer's remorse.

 

It sounds like you are reciting from a Kremlin playbook, tovarisch.

 

 

[Jingthing]

BTW I suggest anyone that wants to learn more about autocracy, the go to person for that is Anne Applebaum. I included two videos of hers in the OP but of course she has books and is a very famous Atlantic Magazine writer.

Most western leaders (except for Orban if you can call Hungary part of the west and of course Trump if he tragically wins or takes power anyway) favor democracy over autocracy.

So what does Applebaum think will happen to the USA if Trump wins?

She says that the USA will DEFINITELY lose its democracy for at least a generation.

After that, who knows, but you've been warned. Of course many magas including JD Vance the probable president and his oligarch owner Theil and don't forget Musk (because it's hard to imagine Trump making it through another term) are ideologically against democracy.

So this won't be the last U.S. election. Russia and Hungary have elections. But if Trump wins it will likely be the last REAL election again for at least a generation. 

Edited October 17 by Jingthing