Expats in Thailand urged not to worry about negative income tax

[Kwaibill]

My worry would be that some “enterprising” soul would figure out someway to get all the “ wealthy” falangs to foot the bill.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, watchcat said:

 

Reading the headline, it sounds like it.

The subject is negative income tax, not Expats!

[Presnock]

51 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Not so. If adopted, the system would mean that EVERY Thai tax resident would have to file a tax return each year, regardless of assessable income levels. But as the article says, it is some way off, potentially never.

I agree that it really should have been written with "Every Thai Tax resident" as in some other articles written about this negative tax initiative indicated that all tax-residents would be included in the new expanded  taxbase, where those making below the certain minimum would be paid cash which would come from the higher earners.  Unless they wise up and obviously there is not 100% agreement yet, those wanting expats to remain and more to come stay here then they will find a shrinking number of expat tax residents for sure.

[Cabradelmar]

So what? Could, should, would... Another example of pure speculation. If you are worried about this, I encourage you to hold your breath. And since expats aren't Thai citizens this NIT story is irrelevant.  Next.

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, Expat68 said:

It is exactly has what of my friends have been saying, until there is anything concrete just wait and see. There is actually a query form specific to Double Taxation Agreement, on the HMRC website which you can submit and they will get back to you (that is of course if you want to get in touch with them because you have to fill in personal details) 😜 😜 

Why?

[kuzmabruk]

Many of you are talking about the new tax laws, which have nothing to do with NIT.

But I thought I would share some Thai tax laws with you, for those who are planning to not file their tax return next March or fudge the numbers on their Thai tax return.  I am working with two of the largest tax accountants in Thailand (still undecided as to who will be my accountant) and they advise, file your tax return or possibly pay some large and painful penalties, as shown below.

 

1. Late Filing Penalty - 1,000 to 2,000 THB

 

2. Late Payment Penalty - penalty of 1.5% of unpaid taxes per month until paid - max 100%, possible for an additional penalty of up to 20% of the outstanding tax amount.

 

3. Failure to File Penalty - fine of up to 200% of the unpaid tax if it’s determined that the failure to file was intentional or involved fraud or evasion.

 

4. Additional Penalties - If they find that you have under-reported your income, they may impose penalties ranging from 100% to 200% of the unreported income.

 

5. Tax Evasion: Deliberate tax evasion or fraud can result in criminal charges, which may include imprisonment, fines, or both.

 

[chiang mai]

Just now, kuzmabruk said:

Many of you are talking about the new tax laws, which have nothing to do with NIT.

But I thought I would share some Thai tax laws with you, for those who are planning to not file their tax return next March or fudge the numbers on their Thai tax return.  I am working with two of the largest tax accountants in Thailand (still undecided as to who will be my accountant) and they advise, file your tax return or possibly pay some large and painful penalties, as shown below.

 

1. Late Filing Penalty - 1,000 to 2,000 THB

 

2. Late Payment Penalty - penalty of 1.5% of unpaid taxes per month until paid - max 100%, possible for an additional penalty of up to 20% of the outstanding tax amount.

 

3. Failure to File Penalty - fine of up to 200% of the unpaid tax if it’s determined that the failure to file was intentional or involved fraud or evasion.

 

4. Additional Penalties - If they find that you have under-reported your income, they may impose penalties ranging from 100% to 200% of the unreported income.

 

5. Tax Evasion: Deliberate tax evasion or fraud can result in criminal charges, which may include imprisonment, fines, or both.

 

My advice to you is that you do not select a tax accountant until after the TRD has released the new forms and related instructions, in November or December. As I have written elsewhere recently, many if not most tax accountants here have no more information about the gaps in our collective knowledge than the entire forum membership does. Feedback from members meetings with Big 4 accountants have confirmed this. 

[Jonathan Swift]

2 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

to improve the living conditions of the poorest people, different approaches are needed. corruption must be tackled consistently,

starting with all government officials. a fair justice system must be established, and equal opportunities for everyone must be ensured,

including for the "ordinary people" ... 

 

simply giving money to low-income earners or to the poor is not a long-term solution. in a developing country with widespread corruption,

trying to create a "welfare solution" only leads to more injustices and more chances for corruption ... 

 

You're right about needing a multi faceted approach to dealing with the poor and unemployed. The same problem is the same in the US and elsewhere.  Your statements about welfare are not what invariably actually happens in the real (western) world.  Have you ever been on welfare? I have, in the US. Nobody in those lines wanted to be there, they would gladly accept any decent job. And they often did eventually. I couldn't wait to get off. The amount of actual welfare cheating (in western countries) is actually so relatively small that it really has little effect, and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I make $1625 a month on disability and still get $170.00 in food assistance in the US, no benefits here other than my $1624. However, corruption in Thailand is a different story, and you may be right about this program's implementation here. However, if one weighs the benefits to persons in dire need against the cons, it may be worth a shot. I say give it a try and watch closely to see how it pans out. Some of this is fact, and some is just my opinion. 

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

 

And your evidence of this is?

Evidence for corruption by school directors? Please wait. I'll just break into a school director's office and find some evidence. I'll post full PDF's of the evidence once collected. Oh! And by the way remember this WASN'T corruption.

 

[BE88]

 

Someone in the government has noticed that expats are no longer investing in real estate and that the inflow of money from expats is decreasing.

[chiang mai]

15 minutes ago, kuzmabruk said:

Many of you are talking about the new tax laws, which have nothing to do with NIT.

But I thought I would share some Thai tax laws with you, for those who are planning to not file their tax return next March or fudge the numbers on their Thai tax return.  I am working with two of the largest tax accountants in Thailand (still undecided as to who will be my accountant) and they advise, file your tax return or possibly pay some large and painful penalties, as shown below.

 

1. Late Filing Penalty - 1,000 to 2,000 THB

 

2. Late Payment Penalty - penalty of 1.5% of unpaid taxes per month until paid - max 100%, possible for an additional penalty of up to 20% of the outstanding tax amount.

 

3. Failure to File Penalty - fine of up to 200% of the unpaid tax if it’s determined that the failure to file was intentional or involved fraud or evasion.

 

4. Additional Penalties - If they find that you have under-reported your income, they may impose penalties ranging from 100% to 200% of the unreported income.

 

5. Tax Evasion: Deliberate tax evasion or fraud can result in criminal charges, which may include imprisonment, fines, or both.

 

Failure to file where tax was due and payable, can ALSO result in back audits being extended from just three years to ten years. Some people will say that pointing this out is scaremongering but it is part of the reality and the risk profile that everyone must consider.

[bigt3116]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Evidence for corruption by school directors? Please wait. I'll just break into a school director's office and find some evidence. I'll post full PDF's of the evidence once collected. Oh! And by the way remember this WASN'T corruption.

 

 

 

So absolutely nothing to back up your claim about school directors, apart from a picture of a soldier?

[EVENKEEL]

This news is troubling. What will all the foreigner tax experts do now?

[dinsdale]

35 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

 

 

So absolutely nothing to back up your claim about school directors, apart from a picture of a soldier?

If you don't think this is the case then ok. Last school I was at the director was said to have paid Bt500,000 for the position. As for evidence what world do you live in? Do you think one can just Google this? Most if not all who have worked in the school systems for a length of time knows that this happens. Personally I've been in it 20+ years. Every teacher knows paid positions are the norm. Same as every other government dept. Most expats would believe this. You don't. That's fine.

[maddox41]

Perfect

Start taxing all foreign income from the expat to pay for low income workers  

And it will never happen anyway 

Expats are worried that they be paying  up to half of their income in Tax  in the near future unless your country has a double tax agreement 

Only 64 cointries have it with Thailand 

 

[Gottfrid]

54 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

What 'means' are stipulated, either 65k per month to spend entirely or 800k in the bank. If using the latter, no actual income is stipulated, you could be living off your Wife's income.

Sure you can. Then it defines a big part of expats who think they can retire on money they can´t use. After that, complaining about not enough money. I actually count such people out of the equation. That´s too stupid for me. I am pretty sure they have these set amounts because they want to make sure foreigners can live in and afford Thailand without getting into complicated situations.

However, here it was the negative tax we talked about, and there you are perfectly right. Doing it that way, everybody can come stay in Thailand without anything to live on. 🙂 

[NaaKap]

3 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

to improve the living conditions of the poorest people, different approaches are needed. corruption must be tackled consistently,

starting with all government officials. a fair justice system must be established, and equal opportunities for everyone must be ensured,

including for the "ordinary people" ... 

 

simply giving money to low-income earners or to the poor is not a long-term solution. in a developing country with widespread corruption,

trying to create a "welfare solution" only leads to more injustices and more chances for corruption ... 

 

Well said. One rule for the elites. Another for the majority. After all it is the altruistic view about looking after the marginalised in the society. Certainly not about increasing the cash flow 😂

[NaaKap]

56 minutes ago, kuzmabruk said:

Many of you are talking about the new tax laws, which have nothing to do with NIT.

But I thought I would share some Thai tax laws with you, for those who are planning to not file their tax return next March or fudge the numbers on their Thai tax return.  I am working with two of the largest tax accountants in Thailand (still undecided as to who will be my accountant) and they advise, file your tax return or possibly pay some large and painful penalties, as shown below.

 

1. Late Filing Penalty - 1,000 to 2,000 THB

 

2. Late Payment Penalty - penalty of 1.5% of unpaid taxes per month until paid - max 100%, possible for an additional penalty of up to 20% of the outstanding tax amount.

 

3. Failure to File Penalty - fine of up to 200% of the unpaid tax if it’s determined that the failure to file was intentional or involved fraud or evasion.

 

4. Additional Penalties - If they find that you have under-reported your income, they may impose penalties ranging from 100% to 200% of the unreported income.

 

5. Tax Evasion: Deliberate tax evasion or fraud can result in criminal charges, which may include imprisonment, fines, or both.

 

Ooooo nice one 🤑

[Ben Zioner]

54 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

My advice to you is that you do not select a tax accountant until after the TRD has released the new forms and related instructions, in November or December. As I have written elsewhere recently, many if not most tax accountants here have no more information about the gaps in our collective knowledge than the entire forum membership does. Feedback from members meetings with Big 4 accountants have confirmed this. 

Yep, absolutely. And don't remit any pre 2024 income this year. Or as long as you can.

 

But are RD are aware of the weakness of the "remittance tax" and might rush in a botched, nightmarish "global income tax".

[Dionigi]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Just get rid of corruption and there will be more than enough money to go around, start by jailing government officials, police, customs and immigration creeps, who are collecting fees for hiring. It is a disgusting practice, is the polar opposite of a meritocracy, and it needs to be abolished. Having to pay for your position is deplorable. Lock them up. 

Please make this worldwide. More advance countries are just better at hiding it. Hint, ex prime ministers and their wives who are paid 1million for an after dinner speech.

[bigt3116]

28 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

If you don't think this is the case then ok. Last school I was at the director was said to have paid Bt500,000 for the position. As for evidence what world do you live in? Do you think one can just Google this? Most if not all who have worked in the school systems for a length of time knows that this happens. Personally I've been in it 20+ years. Every teacher knows paid positions are the norm. Same as every other government dept. Most expats would believe this. You don't. That's fine.

 

Huge extrapolation

[NaaKap]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I'm a fan of negative income tax because I think it is of great potential benefit. For one thing, it provides a massive incentive to declare earnings and will reduce the extent of the grey or informal economy and help eliminate poverty. It is a win win scenario

The only issue that is the "grey economy" are the guys who are running the show......... 

[chiang mai]

45 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

Someone in the government has noticed that expats are no longer investing in real estate and that the inflow of money from expats is decreasing.

That's not what the statistics suggest.

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

22 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That's not what the statistics suggest.

 

 

Dunno was your pic with USD figures is meant to prove, but anyway, you'd have to factor in local [real] inflation and exchange rates.

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I'm a fan of negative income tax because I think it is of great potential benefit. For one thing, it provides a massive incentive to declare earnings and will reduce the extent of the grey or informal economy and help eliminate poverty. It is a win win scenario

I a pleased to read that you volunteer to donate a fair share of your hard earned cash to some useless sala bum, who has never tried to secure a decent job. And that while the local super rich are taking a sizeable "commission" on everything  you "donate".

 

Be the meat in sandwich if you wish. 

[chiang mai]

11 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno was your pic with USD figures is meant to prove, but anyway, you'd have to factor in local [real] inflation and exchange rates.

Then do so and demonstrate  and confirm the posters claim. I thought a quick look see at some facts would be enough but if you want to make a project out of it, be my guest.

[black tabby12345]

3 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

This will be for Thai nationals only, so why on earth would any expat worry?

 

This really is a non-news item.

 

Truly.

I found that article is totally Pointless & Nonsense itself.

 

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I a pleased to read that you volunteer to donate a fair share of your hard earned cash to some useless sala bum, who has never tried to secure a decent job. And that while the local super rich are taking a sizeable "commission" on everything  you "donate".

 

Be the meat in sandwich if you wish. 

Nonsense and spin of what I wrote!

 

Adoption of negative income tax doesn't affect how much or how little tax I pay here, that's a totally separate issue. Don't adopt NIT and I pay X in Thai tax, adopt NIT and I still pay X in Thai tax.

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

Yes by throwing money at the poverty has proven throughout the history of just about every country imaginable to be useless in that it just translates into the poor begging for more instead of acutally creating jobs for those people,  I have watched many years of this in the US as they still try to solve the poverty by throwning good money after bad over and over.  my opinion on this issue anyway.

Similar in the UK. The number of people claiming benefits, who have never worked and never intend to, are better off than the person on minimum wages.

[KhunBENQ]

Again wasted time for a useless rubbish and misleading headline. Some human intelligence would do good.