Expats in Thailand urged not to worry about negative income tax

[SportRider]

In related news, expats are urged not to get stressed out about their home being hit by an iceberg. 

[newnative]

  Yet another totally misleading and inaccurate headline designed, I imagine, solely to get AN readers to click on this time-wasting, utterly irrelevant article.  

[black tabby12345]

1 hour ago, KhunBENQ said:

Again wasted time for a useless rubbish and misleading headline. Some human intelligence would do good.

 

The above article is one of the Worst Stupid/Meaningless ones I have ever read.

Just don't understand What The Editor Wrote It For.

That writer raised the Nonsense to the Art Form.

[patman30]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

The real purpose behind NIT is to substantially increase Thailand's taxpayer base,

the only line worth reading.

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, Surasak said:

Similar in the UK. The number of people claiming benefits, who have never worked and never intend to, are better off than the person on minimum wages.

A sad state of affairs for sure I recall walking by a house provided by welfare from the city, for a woman with 10 kids, she had never been married, each kid had a different father and each time a new birth, the welfare folks increased her monthly stipend.  Her house was bigger and nicer than the one I grew up in.  I am totally against welfare and providing a "lIving amount" for this kind of person.  Once one gets away with it, then there is  standing line outside the welfare office for those that quit working for a living, just show up at job interviews, look like crap, dress like crap, talk like crap so you don't get hired, the only requirement is you have to actively be looking for employment..what a sad joke on Joe Citizen paying taxes on low wages.

[Cabradelmar]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

The real purpose behind NIT is to substantially increase Thailand's taxpayer base, which currently stands at less than 30%.

What's interesting about this, for me, is this is the first time I've ever seen a percent put on the size of the THA tax base. Only 30% of Thais pay PI taxes! That's wild. It's a small miracle THA can afford to pay for what infrastructure and government services they have now. Plus, given the number of government employees (including military and police), and the number of people in "above board" industries (like branded retail, large hotels education, healthcare and banking), that that 30% estimate is embarrassingly low, and a complete failure of the government's fiscal responsibility. And, it would seem that it's more than just those in the informal economy - e.g.,  farming, day laborers, street vendors, sole proprietorships, etc., who are not paying their PI taxes.

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Cabradelmar said:

What's interesting about this, for me, is this is the first time I've ever seen a percent put on the size of the THA tax base. Only 30% of Thais pay PI taxes! That's wild. It's a small miracle THA can afford to pay for what infrastructure and government services they have now. Plus, given the number of government employees (including military and police), and the number of people in "above board" industries (like branded retail, large hotels education, healthcare and banking), that that 30% estimate is embarrassingly low, and a complete failure of the government's fiscal responsibility. And, it would seem that it's more than just those in the informal economy - e.g.,  farming, day laborers, street vendors, sole proprietorships, etc., who are not paying their PI taxes.

You're forgetting VAT on almost everything, business tax, and import duties on anything from the western world.

[hunkidori]

And yet all the scaremongers amongst us would have us all believe we were to be taxed for this and need to declare that. What a load of crap, I've thought all along it will all come to nothing and I still do.

 

We all know why some of the self proclaimed experts would have us believe the nonsense. Wouldn't trust any of them.

[ElwoodP]

Topic is NIT (negative income tax).

Nothing to do with foreigners filing Thai tax returns.

Please stay on topic.

[Captor]

We are worried about the other new tax!

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Nonsense and spin of what I wrote!

 

Adoption of negative income tax doesn't affect how much or how little tax I pay here, that's a totally separate issue. Don't adopt NIT and I pay X in Thai tax, adopt NIT and I still pay X in Thai tax.

Bear in mind that to redistribute more one has to collect even more.

[VBF]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

  Yet another totally misleading and inaccurate headline designed, I imagine, solely to get AN readers to click on this time-wasting, utterly irrelevant article.  

Agreed....and we all fell for it 😆

The OP says "Deputy Finance Minister Julapun Amornvivat, a supporter of NIT, has indicated that formal implementation might be several years away"

In other words, several governments away. 🙄

 

And, just to be serious for a moment, such a scheme could / should provide assistance / benefits for needy Thai people. Most Western countries have such schemes which are used by many and abused by some!

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Cabradelmar said:

What's interesting about this, for me, is this is the first time I've ever seen a percent put on the size of the THA tax base. Only 30% of Thais pay PI taxes! That's wild. It's a small miracle THA can afford to pay for what infrastructure and government services they have now. Plus, given the number of government employees (including military and police), and the number of people in "above board" industries (like branded retail, large hotels education, healthcare and banking), that that 30% estimate is embarrassingly low, and a complete failure of the government's fiscal responsibility. And, it would seem that it's more than just those in the informal economy - e.g.,  farming, day laborers, street vendors, sole proprietorships, etc., who are not paying their PI taxes.

I don't know what they are talking about when they say the tax base is 30%. Only 11% of the workforce files tax returns and only 6% pay personal income tax, mostly through PAYE type schemes. What the 30% is I have no idea.

 

VAT and Corporate tax are the two biggest source of tax income but VAT is  an indirect tax that everyone pays.

[Presnock]

Suggest AN users read the 15 October Thai Examiner which says just the opposite.  That ALL ADULTS including expats will be included in the new tax schemes.   I am not sure everyone has seen this but it is about the negative income tax and to support the aging citizens of this country.  This article is under the "LIVING" category.  Just saying as this indicates that expats specifically are targetted in the NIT scheme.   oh well, nothing new, just more confirmation but certainly sounds more like they want it to happen sooner rather than years later.  My opinion only

[BritScot]

10 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

And your evidence of this is?

Yes, Rose Coloured Glasses cleared decades ago!

[BritScot]

1 hour ago, hunkidori said:

And yet all the scaremongers amongst us would have us all believe we were to be taxed for this and need to declare that. What a load of crap, I've thought all along it will all come to nothing and I still do.

 

We all know why some of the self proclaimed experts would have us believe the nonsense. Wouldn't trust any of them.

Keep shining your rose coloured glasses! I remember when the 400k/800k was first mentioned some on here saying: "They can never do that", well they did! Have a good hard think. How easy will it be for immigration to ask "where is your Tax form"? As part of your annual renewal. They already know you have 800k/400k you brought into the country. They have your bank accounts to check any money coming in. Advice: suck it up and pay or have an exit plan in place. I did in 2018 and left in 2019. When I retire, Thailand will be off our radar as full time residency. 

[bkk6060]

10 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

This will be for Thai nationals only, so why on earth would any expat worry?

 

This really is a non-news item.

Some Expats will complain that they deserve it.  Just like they stood in free food lines during Covid.

[Karma80]

The only genuine concern is uncertainty. Investment, whether personal or corporate, requires a stable tax environment. Open discussions about tax reforms after the last PM of the moment instructed the RD to interpret the code regarding remittances has created quicksand under the feet of anyone standing on the Thai tax laws. Thailand needs to stop generating this speculation by having civil servants and ministers just shoot their mouth off.

[Yumthai]

32 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Keep shining your rose coloured glasses! I remember when the 400k/800k was first mentioned some on here saying: "They can never do that", well they did! Have a good hard think. How easy will it be for immigration to ask "where is your Tax form"? As part of your annual renewal. They already know you have 800k/400k you brought into the country. They have your bank accounts to check any money coming in. Advice: suck it up and pay or have an exit plan in place. I did in 2018 and left in 2019. When I retire, Thailand will be off our radar as full time residency. 

How about the dozen maybe hundreds of foreigners who pay an agent to get a 1 year extension stamp in their passport bypassing all financials requirements since years? Should they worry?

[WDSmart]

Sounds good to me!

[Presnock]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Once again, if negative income tax is implemented, everyone in the country will be required to file a return, including expats. Expats will not see any benefit from that but many of Thailand's poor people will. Many Thai people are exactly the same as foreigners in so much as they do not understand how much tax they will pay on their income. If they would figure out the answer to that question, they would understand that negative income tax will increase their earnings.

just additional paperwork for all!

 

[hunkidori]

2 hours ago, BritScot said:

Keep shining your rose coloured glasses! I remember when the 400k/800k was first mentioned some on here saying: "They can never do that", well they did! Have a good hard think. How easy will it be for immigration to ask "where is your Tax form"? As part of your annual renewal. They already know you have 800k/400k you brought into the country. They have your bank accounts to check any money coming in. Advice: suck it up and pay or have an exit plan in place. I did in 2018 and left in 2019. When I retire, Thailand will be off our radar as full time residency. 

 

I think you need to have a good hard think. Almost every retiree I know in Thailand uses an agent to facilitate their extension of stay. Not one of them has 800,000 in a Thai bank. I'm guessing the number of expats using an agent runs into the thousands.

 

Do you think immigration will want to lose this source of income? No they won't,  in fact if and that's a massive if these tax proposals ever become law, immigration and the agents will find a way around it, for a fee of course.

[Ben Zioner]

13 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

This will be for Thai nationals only, so why on earth would any expat worry?

 

This really is a non-news item.

Ok, I'll answer without making any comment about your IQ.

 

a) To pay out a new "negative" tax tax to the poor they will have to collect more "positive" tax form the rich[er].

 

b) Expats [will] pay income tax as of January 1, 2024.

 

c) Once the "negative income tax' takes effects foreigners will pay even more.

[Cabradelmar]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Only 11% of the workforce files tax returns and only 6% pay personal income tax

 

I'd never seen those percentages before either... incredibly low compliance

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Cabradelmar said:

 

I'd never seen those percentages before either... incredibly low compliance

If the average wage is 15k per month, most married couples have enough in exemptions and deductions to qualify to not file  return.

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, Dionigi said:

Please make this worldwide. More advance countries are just better at hiding it. Hint, ex prime ministers and their wives who are paid 1million for an after dinner speech.

There is a huge difference between a legal and transparent payment, and something that's paid entirely off the books in cash, is not only illegal but downright corrupt, and extremely corrosive to society. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

any legislative changes are not imminent

Well considering there is now only about 72 days to the end of the year, which is supposed to be the end of the first taxable period, isn't it time the Thai tax department decided what the regulations will be???

This is typical of Thailand, announce something without any idea as to how it will work and wait to see what happens.

I have said since this was first announced about 12 months ago that nothing will be in place to impose this until the last minute because they have no idea as to how it will work with all the international agreements and other arrangements now in place.

Yes, another case of "Amazing Thailand!"

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There is a huge difference between a legal and transparent payment, and something that's paid entirely off the books in cash, is not only illegal but downright corrupt, and extremely corrosive to society. 

There is nothing wrong with cash, there are some who abuse it just the same as all those who are digital fraudsters. Cash is freedom of choice and liberty. Look at what Trudeau did to the lorry drivers.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

There is nothing wrong with cash, there are some who abuse it just the same as all those who are digital fraudsters. Cash is freedom of choice and liberty. Look at what Trudeau did to the lorry drivers.

Of course there's nothing wrong with cash, I happen to love cash. I'm talking about compelling people to pay hundreds of thousands, or millions of baht to qualify for a job that they are perfectly capable of performing. This has nothing to do with cash, this has to do with utter and complete depravity and moral bankruptcy. 

[GammaGlobulin]

How are they going to tax my negative income....anyway?