What happens in case of accident when foreigner has no PVT Insurance (only social security)

[Fiskebolle]

Hello Folks,

 

A couple days ago, I saw a terrible motorcycle accident happen. Person involved was laying literally 10 meters in front of the doorstep of a private/semi-public hospital.

3 Pickup trucks (Po Teck Tung) arrived at scene to dispatch body/injured to hospitals. To my surprise none of them transferred them to the hospital which was literally 10 meters down from where the accident happened! 
 

Yet this kept me wondering... I'm retired from working in Thailand and have my social security as health coverage (which i only use for minor / OPD issues). I still carry a Private health insurance covering accident/IPD (serious stuff), but as I'm aging and cost of private insurance will at some point become too expensive for me, I may as well just be left with Thai social security system alone. 

 

Now that made me thinking, what would happen *(hypothetically speaking) if I got a serious accident (or heart attack/stroke) and am not conscious anymore to explain (Po Teck Tung or Ambulance) which insurance I have and which hospital I prefer to be brought to?

 

I can imagine the following situation... Por Teck Tung / Medical staff see me (foreigner) and immediately expect this person to have a private health insurance, hence you'll be sent to the Private / best (read most expensive) hospital in the area. Then after waking up from a coma just to realize / shock you are in a hospital you can not afford and stuck with bills/debt you will never be able to cover.

Anyone else here ever though of this?  Or am I over thinking this and my anxiety taking over here? 
Anyway, is there anything that could help the authorities/medical personal to know if I'm covered under SSO by looking at my passport, or best to carry always my Pink ID Card and a note in a my wallet in Thai language explaining which insurance I'm covered with and which hospitals I'd prefer to be brought to in case of emergency? 

Any other ideas / suggestions on this?

Cheers,

FB

[Rob Browder]

I keep my Thai SSO Card in my wallet. 

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, Fiskebolle said:

Anyone else here ever though of this?  Or am I over thinking this and my anxiety taking over here? 

 

Yes... Its a concern of mine since...  while still young enough to afford private medical care, at some point that insurance will become prohibitively expensive. 

 

 

The 'Body snatchers' as they are called, take you to which ever hospital pays them the most to deliver you !!...  (or thats how it used to be - with these 'foundations').

 

 

So... You end up in Bumrungrad for a month without proof of payment or insurance...I'm not sure that would happen, I think by law they have to treat you for a minimum of 72 hours, but by then, if its not been established that you can pay, I think the hospital itself looks to transfer you to a government hospital. 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

I keep my Thai SSO Card in my wallet. 

 

How did you get that ?

 

Thai Citizenship ?...  Married to a Government Official ?

 

I'd like to ensure a way of securing health care once my insurance premiums get too high.... 

i.e. when I'm of retirement age, 60s or 70s etc...   Because even the government hospitals in Thailand 'double charge' foreigners and treatment for something serious could get prohibitively expensive. 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

In my carry around wallet bag,  I have a note written in Thai and in bold letters to which hospital I want to be taken in case of accident. As I usually only stay always the same towns, I mention it for each of the towns where I am and tell them that they can use my credit card for the payment. I'd rather be in debt alive then dead to to some bureaucratic absurdity. Also have the emergency contact numbers in case, both for here and abroad.

[bigt3116]

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How did you get that ?

 

Got mine through working here

[simon43]

I have this dog tag around my neck always.  As I have private insurance, and as I also travel in neighbouring countries, it carries the message in English, Thai, Lao and Burmese.  On the other side of the tag are my personal details - name, passport number, blood group, NoK contact details.

[poppysdad]

Becauseeven the government hospitals in Thailand 'double charge' foreigners and treatment for something serious could get prohibitively expensive. 
 

I’ve spent time in the icu and general ward plus outpatients on a 3 month basis at our government hospital and have always paid the standard charge. And no my wife is not a government employee and she has asked both when paying my bills at the hospital if I’m paying falang price and told no and she has even asked fellow patients what they get charged and i’m paying the same as other Thai patients. 

[fittobethaied]

18 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

In my carry around wallet bag,  I have a note written in Thai and in bold letters to which hospital I want to be taken in case of accident. As I usually only stay always the same towns, I mention it for each of the towns where I am and tell them that they can use my credit card for the payment. I'd rather be in debt alive then dead to to some bureaucratic absurdity. Also have the emergency contact numbers in case, both for here and abroad.

 

I doubt very seriously that anyone, including a rescue car or ambulance, is going to rummage through your bag looking for instruction unless they plan on pocketing your cash if you are unconscious. As has been mentioned, they will take you to the hospital that pays them the largest commission for bringing you there. So far as using your credit card, I am told by Bangkok Hospital Udon that if you are unconscious when they check you in and are unable to sign a release to use that credit card, it will be rejected. For that reason, I requested an additional card in my wife's name on my Visa card account as she will certainly show up if needed unless we are both unconscious at the same time. I suspect that nothing you plan for will ever go as planned. Don't forget...we are living in a land where Murphy's Law rules the day....."If anything can go wrong....it will."

Edited October 25 by fittobethaied

[nana kid]

In my experience most, (if not all), private hospitals will not touch you without money up front,. especially if it will require

serious medical attention             like an operation,

[BigStar]

On 10/24/2024 at 11:30 AM, Fiskebolle said:

Anyway, is there anything that could help the authorities/medical personal to know if I'm covered under SSO by looking at my passport, or best to carry always my Pink ID Card and a note in a my wallet in Thai language explaining which insurance I'm covered with and which hospitals I'd prefer to be brought to in case of emergency? 

 

You probably won't be carrying your passport.

 

I made and had laminated a wallet card. Gives the Thai SS logo, announces I have SS insurance, gives my number (pink ID card number) and the name of my designated hospital. So this stays in a window pocket to be seen the moment my wallet is opened. On the other side of the pocket is my pink ID card. I figure that'll do.

 

The same method or something like it could be used to tell responders to take you a public hsp rather than a private, if desired.

 

Emergency responders will have to know quickly, and obviously you might not be able to tell them verbally.

 

In theory, if you'd best be brought to the nearest private hsp in an emergency, you could get emergency treatment and then a transfer to your hsp, both covered. 

 

Edited October 25 by BigStar

[LukKrueng]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The 'Body snatchers' as they are called, take you to which ever hospital pays them the most to deliver you !!...  (or thats how it used to be - with these 'foundations').

Not exactly. As those services are local, each organisation works with 1 specific private hospital in their area, so they won't go to a hospital they don't have a deal with. About 10 years ago they'd get 300 BAHT per injured person.

BTW, they are all volunteers without salary or paid expenses. They have to buy the vehicle and equipt it themselves.

[NORDO]

I was hit by a car n Suk street many years ago.    Thrown though three lanes of traffic into the median.  Car did not stop.  Everyone just look at me, not help.   I crawl to curb and get cab.   He takes me to BKK hospital, why I don’t know.  As I am lift onto the gurney and wheeled into the Emergency room, a little gal is right beside asking for payment.

[bigt3116]

15 hours ago, BigStar said:

In theory, if you'd best be brought to the nearest private hsp in an emergency,

 

No, you would be best brought to the nearest hospital, regardless of how it is funded.

 

[thesetat2013]

On 10/24/2024 at 11:30 AM, Fiskebolle said:

Hello Folks,

 

A couple days ago, I saw a terrible motorcycle accident happen. Person involved was laying literally 10 meters in front of the doorstep of a private/semi-public hospital.

3 Pickup trucks (Po Teck Tung) arrived at scene to dispatch body/injured to hospitals. To my surprise none of them transferred them to the hospital which was literally 10 meters down from where the accident happened! 
 

Yet this kept me wondering... I'm retired from working in Thailand and have my social security as health coverage (which i only use for minor / OPD issues). I still carry a Private health insurance covering accident/IPD (serious stuff), but as I'm aging and cost of private insurance will at some point become too expensive for me, I may as well just be left with Thai social security system alone. 

 

Now that made me thinking, what would happen *(hypothetically speaking) if I got a serious accident (or heart attack/stroke) and am not conscious anymore to explain (Po Teck Tung or Ambulance) which insurance I have and which hospital I prefer to be brought to?

 

I can imagine the following situation... Por Teck Tung / Medical staff see me (foreigner) and immediately expect this person to have a private health insurance, hence you'll be sent to the Private / best (read most expensive) hospital in the area. Then after waking up from a coma just to realize / shock you are in a hospital you can not afford and stuck with bills/debt you will never be able to cover.

Anyone else here ever though of this?  Or am I over thinking this and my anxiety taking over here? 
Anyway, is there anything that could help the authorities/medical personal to know if I'm covered under SSO by looking at my passport, or best to carry always my Pink ID Card and a note in a my wallet in Thai language explaining which insurance I'm covered with and which hospitals I'd prefer to be brought to in case of emergency? 

Any other ideas / suggestions on this?

Cheers,

FB

If your vehicle is registered and tax is paid. It carries insurance as well. On a bike that is 80,000 baht that can be used for medical. 

[The Fugitive]

4 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

No, you would be best brought to the nearest hospital, regardless of how it is funded.

That's assuming if it was a private hospital they would comply with UCEP (Universal Coverage for Emergency Patient), which came into force on 01st April 2017 and requires all hospitals, state or private, to treat emergency patients for free for the first 72 hours.

[Lacessit]

The insurance that goes with motorcycle registration covers 30,000 baht of medical treatment in the event of an accident.

 

Treatment in a government hospital is quite inexpensive, even for foreigners.

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

No, you would be best brought to the nearest hospital, regardless of how it is funded.

 

 

No, your injuries might not be so serious that they can't wait another 15 min for the ambulance or whatever to reach a public hsp, esp a SS-insured's designated hospital. And as @The Fugitiveimplies, the private hsp may even reject treatment, as in these cases:

 

 

The patients mentioned above might have lived IF they hadn't wasted time first seeking care from the private hsp, presumably the nearest hsp. Again, your injury may be so bad that it seems the only choice--but it may not be.

 

Not a bad idea to check with local pvt hsps, or whatever local hsp you happen to visit, to find out what their policy is, if they'll tell you honestly. If anyone does that, they could post the answers here.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

22 hours ago, poppysdad said:

Becauseeven the government hospitals in Thailand 'double charge' foreigners and treatment for something serious could get prohibitively expensive. 
 

I’ve spent time in the icu and general ward plus outpatients on a 3 month basis at our government hospital and have always paid the standard charge. And no my wife is not a government employee and she has asked both when paying my bills at the hospital if I’m paying falang price and told no and she has even asked fellow patients what they get charged and i’m paying the same as other Thai patients. 

 

There was the case in Hua Hin where a Dutch patient faced dual charging (was charged more) for Cancer treatment than Thai's... 

 

He filed a case with the courts who ultimately rejected - Dual Charging is not illegal in Thai Hospitals.

 

i.e. the Government agrees with dual pricing of foreigners in Hospitals and it exists, even if you haven't experienced it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

There was the case in Hua Hin where a Dutch patient faced dual charging (was charged more) for Cancer treatment than Thai's... 

 

He filed a case with the courts who ultimately rejected - Dual Charging is not illegal in Thai Hospitals.

 

i.e. the Government agrees with dual pricing of foreigners in Hospitals and it exists, even if you haven't experienced it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some government hospitals have private wards, which no doubt are more expensive. That may give rise to the double charging hypothesis.

 

Three days ago, I was hospitalized with Pneumonia. Two nights in hospital, in a public ward. Most of the costs were in nursing care and laboratory  tests. The actual bed cost per night was 200 baht. Outstanding care, 4 bedside consultations with doctors.

 

7000 baht total. To me, it was an absolute bargain.

 

I am damn sure if a Thai national went to an Australian, UK or US public hospital, they would be paying a lot more than that.

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Some government hospitals have private wards, which no doubt are more expensive. That may give rise to the double charging hypothesis.

 

Possibly some of it - but dual charging also exists - there are actually 4 different pricing bands (as per the article linked above).

 

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Three days ago, I was hospitalized with Pneumonia. Two nights in hospital, in a public ward. Most of the costs were in nursing care and laboratory  tests. The actual bed cost per night was 200 baht. Outstanding care, 4 bedside consultations with doctors.

 

7000 baht total. To me, it was an absolute bargain.

 

I am damn sure if a Thai national went to an Australian, UK or US public hospital, they would be paying a lot more than that.

 

Thats outstanding...  (hope you've recovered).

 

In the UK foreigners applying for Residency / Nationality have to pay a Immigration Health Surcharge of £3,105 (for 2 years and 9 months) of ILR.

Thats about £1130 per year (THB 50,000) - but after securing residency, NHS health care is free.

 

 

What concerns me in Thailand would be getting something nasty in my 70's (decades away yet), but I doubt I'll be happy paying for private health care at that age (I expect it would be crazy expensive by then)...    Thus: I'd be paying out of pocked for treatment at Government hospitals - but something such as cancer treatment or something similar and long term could become costly...

... It would be great if 'we' long-term foreigners could pay in Thailands Health System and receive Government health care (as if insured).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Possibly some of it - but dual charging also exists - there are actually 4 different pricing bands (as per the article linked above).

 

 

Thats outstanding...  (hope you've recovered).

 

In the UK foreigners applying for Residency / Nationality have to pay a Immigration Health Surcharge of £3,105 (for 2 years and 9 months) of ILR.

Thats about £1130 per year (THB 50,000) - but after securing residency, NHS health care is free.

 

 

What concerns me in Thailand would be getting something nasty in my 70's (decades away yet), but I doubt I'll be happy paying for private health care at that age (I expect it would be crazy expensive by then)...    Thus: I'd be paying out of pocked for treatment at Government hospitals - but something such as cancer treatment or something similar and long term could become costly...

... It would be great if 'we' long-term foreigners could pay in Thailands Health System and receive Government health care (as if insured).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back at home with a swag of antibiotics, thank you.

 

IMO having a Thai GF who knows the system helps considerably. There is no way I could negotiate the hospital bureaucracy without her.

 

I agree, once you are in your 70's insurance becomes prohibitively expensive, if it is even available. I am uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions.

 

When I had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma a couple of years ago, I went back to Australia for treatment. The drugs used for chemo there were simply not available in Thailand. I also had three CAT scans with radioactive infusions to measure my progress to remission. I can't even begin to estimate how much that would have cost here, best guess millions of baht.

 

I still pay for my Australian private health insurance, although the time will come when I can no longer travel.

[NanLaew]

On 10/24/2024 at 5:50 PM, Rob Browder said:

I keep my Thai SSO Card in my wallet. 

 

What? No amulet(s)?!

[Zapitapi]

there is a pretty neat new service that covers that and more.. 1 if u get in trouble with the LAW you call them as it happens and they will talk to the authorities to prevent some funny business as good as possible.. 2 when u have an accident they have ur med history medications and all info you could not disclose when u incapacitated such as what kind of hospital you wish to be driven to etc. they also have your wishes e.g. you want life saving surgery or not and in what circumstances.. they issue a physical card .. the ambulances in TH call and the company then instructs according to ur wishes etc..3  also in case you pass away they organise the paperwork and honour your wishes to whats going to happen once you are gone either buried or burned in thailand or back to your home country.. costs about 7k a year..

i thought about it .. is it worth it?..my initial thought was hey if something happens my GF or friends can assist but thats wishful thinking as they are (except your GF is a lawyer) in way above their heads and cant resolve anything compared to professionals that do that for living

Edited October 26 by Zapitapi

[bigt3116]

On 10/25/2024 at 3:29 PM, LukKrueng said:

Not exactly. As those services are local, each organisation works with 1 specific private hospital in their area

 

Strange because the 4 or 5 services here all take you to the Government hospital. None of them take you to the private hospitals, (they are serviced by their own ambulances).

[bigt3116]

8 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

That's assuming if it was a private hospital they would comply with UCEP (Universal Coverage for Emergency Patient), which came into force on 01st April 2017 and requires all hospitals, state or private, to treat emergency patients for free for the first 72 hours.

 

What? Did you read what you wrote? " assuming if it was a private hospital they would comply with UCEP", then "requires all hospitals, state or private, to treat emergency patients for free for the first 72 hours.". You are arguing against yourself!

[bigt3116]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The drugs used for chemo there were simply not available in Thailand.

 

In Thailand, the standard chemotherapy regimen for treating Hodgkin lymphoma (HL) is ABVD, which includes the following drugs:

Adriamycin (doxorubicin)
Bleomycin
Vinblastine
Dacarbazine (DTIC)

 

In Thailand, common chemotherapy regimens for treating Hodgkin lymphoma include ABVD (Adriamycin, Bleomycin, Vinblastine, Dacarbazine), which is a globally recognized first-line treatment, especially for newly diagnosed cases. This combination is preferred for its effectiveness in achieving remission in early to intermediate stages. For more aggressive cases or if initial treatment does not succeed, the BEACOPP regimen (Bleomycin, Etoposide, Adriamycin, Cyclophosphamide, Oncovin, Procarbazine, Prednisone) may be used, though it often comes with more side effects due to its intensity.

 

Seems they are available?

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The insurance that goes with motorcycle registration covers 30,000 baht of medical treatment in the event of an accident.

 

Treatment in a government hospital is quite inexpensive, even for foreigners.

 

While government hospitals cost much less (usually about 1/4) than private, a  single hospitalization at a government hospital can easily run over 1 million baht if specialized surgery, ICU care etc is required...as is often the case after serious accident. 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

 

In Thailand, the standard chemotherapy regimen for treating Hodgkin lymphoma (HL) is ABVD, which includes the following drugs:

Adriamycin (doxorubicin)
Bleomycin
Vinblastine
Dacarbazine (DTIC)

 

In Thailand, common chemotherapy regimens for treating Hodgkin lymphoma include ABVD (Adriamycin, Bleomycin, Vinblastine, Dacarbazine), which is a globally recognized first-line treatment, especially for newly diagnosed cases. This combination is preferred for its effectiveness in achieving remission in early to intermediate stages. For more aggressive cases or if initial treatment does not succeed, the BEACOPP regimen (Bleomycin, Etoposide, Adriamycin, Cyclophosphamide, Oncovin, Procarbazine, Prednisone) may be used, though it often comes with more side effects due to its intensity.

 

Seems they are available?

He had NON Hodgkins lymphoma

[Sheryl]

On 10/26/2024 at 4:43 AM, bigt3116 said:

 

No, you would be best brought to the nearest hospital, regardless of how it is funded.

 

Not the nearest hodpital. The nearest adequately equipped hospital. Big difference.

 

Smaller private hospitals in particular are often not equipped to handle major emergencies.  Some do not even have round the clock Xray or surgical  capacity .