UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[baansgr]

6 hours ago, nglodnig said:

First off - is there a system in place for tracking UK citizens leaving and entering the county? I don't believe there is.....

I've been in Philippines 👍

[Luuk Chaai]

22 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

If you do the crime, do the time.

My pension has been frozen for almost nine years. That is one reason why I still work.

Yes, life is a bitch and then we die.

It is how we die that is important.

You're on the "wrong team "

We get our C.O.L.A. increases every year ( Cost of Living Adjustment )

 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Exactly, I have lost count of the amount of Eastern Europeans that are claiming child allowance amongst other benefits but the real kicker is, they are renting out their counc il/housing association property and and pocketing the rent..

not to mention winter fuel allowance, lol 

 

the uk government need to clamp down  on this bs,  the money they save can be spent pensioners .

 

first thing I would do -biometric  id cards, absolute id when claiming anything, oh the general public  do not agree -well seriously  it would stop the huge fraud going on in the uk right  now

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There is , but all they have to do is to request you provide your passport for them to see and they will see all the Thai entry and exit stamps 

I lost my passport!

Game over.

[bradiston]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I lost my passport!

Game over.

A passport isn't what they would look at. You think they'd rely on that? Your entry and exit time and dates are recorded digitally every time you go through immigration. On my last trip to Philippines I asked the IO there upon leaving, if UK immigration could access my data on their system. She confirmed it but said it very rarely happens. So, safe to assume they can track you. Out of 500,000 OAPs living abroad, some will have notified HMRC or the DWP that they were leaving, in order to cancel tax returns or whatever, and maybe where they living thereafter. No idea of numbers. Others won't have bothered and either accept their pensions will be frozen if the DWP find out where they're living and it doesn't have an agreement, or it does. I guess just an exit from the UK as recorded at UK immigration would be enough to alert them. But I imagine it would be hugely time consuming trying to track possibly 100s of thousands of suspected non change of circumstances notifiers. Most benefit fraud in the UK is committed by Universal Credit applicants. Us OAPs probably pale into tiny insignificance compared. And if you do get caught, I think the only penalty would be to freeze your pension until you meet the requirements for the annual raise. This last item has been the subject of much heated discussion over the years. Some claim they, or a mate, had to pay back the excess payments. Others who claim they were incarcerated. Others that they were fined. And so it goes on. Information is thin on the ground. YMMV.

[quake]

23 minutes ago, bradiston said:

A passport isn't what they would look at. You think they'd rely on that? Your entry and exit time and dates are recorded digitally every time you go through immigration. On my last trip to Philippines I asked the IO there upon leaving, if UK immigration could access my data on their system. She confirmed it but said it very rarely happens. So, safe to assume they can track you. Out of 500,000 OAPs living abroad, some will have notified HMRC or the DWP that they were leaving, in order to cancel tax returns or whatever, and maybe where they living thereafter. No idea of numbers. Others won't have bothered and either accept their pensions will be frozen if the DWP find out where they're living and it doesn't have an agreement, or it does. I guess just an exit from the UK as recorded at UK immigration would be enough to alert them. But I imagine it would be hugely time consuming trying to track possibly 100s of thousands of suspected non change of circumstances notifiers. Most benefit fraud in the UK is committed by Universal Credit applicants. Us OAPs probably pale into tiny insignificance compared. And if you do get caught, I think the only penalty would be to freeze your pension until you meet the requirements for the annual raise. This last item has been the subject of much heated discussion over the years. Some claim they, or a mate, had to pay back the excess payments. Others who claim they were incarcerated. Others that they were fined. And so it goes on. Information is thin on the ground. YMMV.

 

Airlines in the uk submit information about people to uk boarder force.

They know, when you left and come back in to the uk, 

if they wanted to look.

 

 

 

 

[nausea]

I don't know, maybe the UK authorities will never pick up on all these guys living in Thailand and claiming UK residence. But it's a bit like living with the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head, rather you than me; though I can sorta understand it for those totally dependent on the State Pension, they've no choice really, if they want to stay here.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Those would be the people who chose to live in a country in which UK state pension increases are not payable, a downside that is well-known and addressed openly on government websites and it has been that way for more than 70 years.   Perhaps those people should have gone to a different country where their increases would be available.

You are wrong, it has not been that way for more than 70 years.

Reciprocal agreements are nothing more than a government smokescreen to cover up incompetance and legalised fraud. Who decides if there should be a reciprocal agreement or not?

When brexit came along the reciprocal agreement with the EU came to an end, what happened?

The government claim the policy has been successfully challenged in court, that is a distortion of the facts. The 2002 court case was brought about under human rights legislation, the policy has never been challenged in court under current equality laws.

The government published the equality act and dealt with the fallout as it arose, the trans community probably the most notable.

The problem with frozen pensioners is that they are not in the UK, spread around the world with no unified voice and the government relies on the unlikelyhood of a legal challenge. Also a large percentage of the UK population has benefitted significantly from state pension discrimination so they will tend to defend the government position.

Only last week in one of the annual events MPs from across the political spectrum quite rightly vocalised their praise and gratitude to the armed forces.

Every year when the Social Security Act comes before parliament those hypocrites vote for an arrangement that denies military veterans a full state pension. Over the years there has been attempts during the debate to address the discriminatory policy, but that has been suppressed by the government of the day.

In 2019 the Labour Party stated the discrimination was unacceptable and gave their support to the APPG recomendations and included proposed changes in their manifesto. Now in power they now believe the discrimination is no longer unacceptable, and like yourself and others quite happy to continue the perpretation.

[Russell17au]

18 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Those pensions would be superannuation occupational pensions (or whatever is the proper term for them), they would not be able to receive the state pensions if they resided overseas.   Other people with occupational pension schemes can also receive them abroad.  

Sorry but you are incorrect because I get my Australian Government Pension paid directly into my Thai bank account and I have lived in Thailand for 12 years

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

My friend in cnx got his pension 14 yrs ago now and it has stayed at £100 a week since day 1.he lives in cnx and is happy so no issue.but i never understood why phillipines gets the extra but not thailand

Believe it or not, but there are several different circumstances that apply to pensioners in Thailand.

From what you said, it is quite likely that he benefitted from a discriminatory policy within the state pension arrangement, losing much less than those in other circumstances.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

£10 yes but the big one had to be applied for at some stage by someone in your household in the UK!

That used to be the case but it did became automatic, possibly during covid.

[Expat68]

I have no sympathy if they get caught 

[Moonlover]

23 hours ago, normanx1234 said:

That particular Bill is dead:

 

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3430/news

 

So only an issue if Labour introduce something similar.

This bill was reintroduced after the general election and has now reached the 'committee stage' in the House of Lords. See also Wikipedia.

 

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3430

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_and_Digital_Information_Bill

 

 

[sambum]

14 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Possible, but why the sudden change of heart?

Jealousy?

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, all the Brits who moves to Thailand or lives here, knows the rules. Fair or unfair, has nothing to do with it. If they make a choice to move to Thailand, they will also make a choice to go by the rules. Break them, and sooner or later you will have to pay for it. Something that might be so hard that they can not stay in Thailand no more. 

 

Welcome to Thailand! Stop hiding and breaking the law. If you can´t afford it, Thailand is not for you. Then it´s better to chose a country where can get your full pension.

I came to live in Thailand a good few years before I was of pension age and I never knew about not getting these annual increases until after I was settled in Thailand and living up country, and not going to bars as I am a non drinker meant not meeting many British ex pats.

[Kinok Farang]

23 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, all the Brits who moves to Thailand or lives here, knows the rules. Fair or unfair, has nothing to do with it. If they make a choice to move to Thailand, they will also make a choice to go by the rules. Break them, and sooner or later you will have to pay for it. Something that might be so hard that they can not stay in Thailand no more. 

 

Welcome to Thailand! Stop hiding and breaking the law. If you can´t afford it, Thailand is not for you. Then it´s better to chose a country where can get your full pension.

Out of all the bullshiit comments on AN,this type annoy me most.

 "If you can't afford it,Thailand is not for you"

Who the fuuck are you to judge who can or can't retire in Thailand?

I'm alright Jack,pathetic.

[Moonlover]

20 hours ago, hardblogger said:

 If you get your OAP paid direct into Thai bank, it is then TAX free, it is not paid from UK,, it is paid from outscorcing company actually in USA. But if it paid into UK bank, then yes it will be subject to tax over 12570. But may or may not suit you to check that out. Mine goes in to my Thai bank every 4th Friday at 9.01am its very good. 

That is not correct. Your state pension will be taxed via your military pension, whether it's paid into a Thai bank or not. It makes no difference where you have it deposited.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, hardblogger said:

Gold star for Mr Perfect. There you are. 

A gold star for excellent forward planning.

 

He deserves at least that.

[transam]

13 hours ago, jori123 said:

not only, I can only only imagine the stoking fires of jealousy arising ,its only money, admitted Im getting more than Transam, but why so embittered?

Dreamer......................😂

[sambum]

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Neither Labour, nor the Tories, have ever said that they would reinstate the increases so they have never quietly dropped it.  When were the Lib Dems ever in power?

 

Extract from Labour Manifesto 2019 - Page 76:-

" We will ensure that the pensions of UK citizens living overseas rise in line with pensions in Britain."

[transam]

13 hours ago, jori123 said:

Answering older than old horse<deleted> quotes from embattled and fiercely jealous frozen brrrrrr whatever.  All that money lost, never to be recovered Cannot (well can) imagine how you feel, bet you could kill  lol  lol

Dreamer...........😂

[transam]

11 hours ago, roo860 said:

I remember you saying it wasn't for pension, was a benefit.

You remember wrong.................😉

[sambum]

9 minutes ago, Kinok Farang said:

Out of all the bullshiit comments on AN,this type annoy me most.

 "If you can't afford it,Thailand is not for you"

Who the fuuck are you to judge who can or can't retire in Thailand?

I'm alright Jack,pathetic.

 

Agreed! And "If you don't like it here, go home!" 

 

It's as if you aren't allowed to have an opinion any more.

 

Nowhere is perfect, but some places come nearer than others. In my opinion Thailand comes into that category, but that doesn't mean to say that there are not things that can be improved.

[transam]

11 hours ago, jori123 said:

 

 Suggest there are many twists here, fiery jealousy too. By any chance were u not the other participant of the "official letter hoax" along with nick? its on record if any denial     . but then there have been so many tales of grief from you especially "knew people" " 3 of ,em"  down to one later "£1000 quid fines" "civil servant knocking on doors" it goes on forever    but  I find  comfort I've been there since retirement, never lost a penny in SP rises, not one penny,  as for you ?  gulp

Wow, the new bloke is posting about things from years back, so who were you...........😂

But hey, what on earth are you on about, though I am sure we are all happy for you and your state pension..............🤭

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, quake said:

 

Airlines in the uk submit information about people to uk boarder force.

They know, when you left and come back in to the uk, 

if they wanted to look.

 

 

 

 

I find that quite surprising but I guess it's probably in their privacy policy. I'd like to see it quoted chapter and verse.

[quake]

11 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I find that quite surprising but I guess it's probably in their privacy policy. I'd like to see it quoted chapter and verse.

 

I believe it has been the case for many years.

I have not read all the details in the link, but think the answer is there. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/passenger-name-record-data/passenger-name-record-data

 

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, quake said:

 

I believe it has been the case for many years.

That's not the answer I was looking for! I guess I'll have to do my own research.

[The Cyclist]

11 hours ago, nglodnig said:

First off - is there a system in place for tracking UK citizens leaving and entering the county? I don't believe there is.....

 

Yes

 

Passenger  manifests on flights leaving the UK are forwarded to the destination airport. It is called forward passenger screening or something of that ilk.

 

Thailand is certainly one of the Countries involved in this scheme.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

A passport isn't what they would look at. You think they'd rely on that? Your entry and exit time and dates are recorded digitally every time you go through immigration.

Which doesn't tell them where you went.

 

And I left in 2016 before they kept entry/exit records, the UK police were still trawling my former 'known addresses' so they clearly didn't know I had left the country.

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Yes

 

Passenger  manifests on flights leaving the UK are forwarded to the destination airport. It is called forward passenger screening or something of that ilk.

 

Thailand is certainly one of the Countries involved in this scheme.

And yet again, Thailand is a travel hub for Asia, even knowing you landed here, doesn't mean you stayed here, you might have bought an onward flight to your final destination in Manila.

 

Or are you suggesting all flights from anywhere in the world to anywhere else in the world are reported back to the UK?