K bank E-mail with Tax Forms attached ?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

If you want to believe rules are or will be strictly enforced in Thailand it's up to you.

If you assess enforcement risk is high it's up to you.

Others have different opinions.

If I have a choice between deciding whether to follow rules, or, accepting the word of strangers in an anonymous social network forum that the rules wont be enforced hence I don't need to follow them, guess which one wins hands down.

[JohnnyBD]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My feedback.

So they wanted your Danish tax ID.

They got your Thai Tax ID too because that's the same as your yellow book.

If you're in Thailand more than 180 days a year you're a Thailand tax resident regardless.

If your pension is EXEMPTED from taxation in Thailand, you can bring it all to Thailand and none of it is accessible as far as Thai taxation. To know this, you need to find out the terms of the Denmark Thailand Double Taxation Agreement I seriously doubt the bank would know anything about that.

I am not sure if it was correct to use your Denmark address rather than your Thai address as I'm assuming you live in Thailand and are a Thai tax resident here (over 180 days).

I don't like the bank making these decisions for people on how to fill out those forms. I DO NOT trust them. 

My Citibank TH accts were transferred to UOB earlier this year, and when I went into the bank, they asked me to fill out new forms to update my information on file. They wanted my SSN (US tax ID) and my US address if I had one. They didn't ask if I had a Thai TIN, or if I was a tax-resident or whether I paid taxes here. They already had my Thai address, so I suspect the request was for FATCA/CRS only.

 

I suspect KBank already had the Denmark person's Thai address, and they asked if he had a Denmark address, and since he did, he gave it to them. I don't have a problem giving my Thai banks my US address. In fact, I want them to know I have a US address.

[chiang mai]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To clarify this, there are two levels.
Being required to file even if you'll owe no tax, and being required to file if you do owe.

Not everyone is required to file at all. 

As far as how aggressively they're going to enforce this stuff on foreigners who aren't working or earning money otherwise in Thailand, nobody can say.

So I guess it's best to assess your personal situation, which really will be different for each person, and make your own decision about compliance. 

I agree with this. I would only add that any perceived lack of current enforcement, doesn't preclude the actions you take (or don't) today, from coming back to bite you at some point in the future. Put another way, if you don't file this year there may not be any immediate negative response, but questions may be asked in fitire years, as to why you did not......that is a the risk

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

My Citibank TH accts were transferred to UOB earlier this year, and when I went into the bank, they asked me to fill out new forms to update my information on file. They wanted my SSN (US tax ID) and my US address if I had one. They didn't ask if I had a Thai TIN, or if I was a tax-resident or whether I paid taxes here. They already had my Thai address, so I suspect the request was for FATCA/CRS only.

 

I suspect KBank already had the Denmark person's Thai address, and they asked if he had a Denmark address, and since he did, he gave it to them. I don't have a problem giving my Thai banks my US address. In fact, I want them to know I have a US address.

I assume it's related to the CRS form specifically and nothing to do with bank records independent of the form.

[JohnnyBD]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I assume it's related to the CRS form specifically and nothing to do with bank records independent of the form.

Yes, CRS for the Denmark person, and FATCA for me, since I am a US citizen.

 

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which was passed as part of the HIRE Act, generally requires that foreign financial Institutions and certain other non-financial foreign entities report on the foreign assets held by their U.S. account holders or be subject to withholding on withholdable payments

Edited Monday at 01:35 PM by JohnnyBD

[oldcpu]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Put another way, if you don't file this year there may not be any immediate negative response, but questions may be asked in fitire years, as to why you did not......that is a the risk

 

 This brings back memories - possibly relevant - possibly not.

 

My Thai wife is a Canadian Permanent Resident (PR), but she left Canada to live with me (in Europe). Living with a Canadian abroad (myself) means she did not lose her Canadian PR status.  Living in Europe 90% of the time also meant she had next to no Canadian income (she had trivial Canadian bank interest).

 

A couple of years ago she received a letter from Revenue Canada demanding she file 5 years of Canadian tax returns (even thou she was 95% out of the country of Canada).  So we dutifully filled in 5 years of Canadian tax returns (where each tax year it was Revenue Canada that owed my wife a truely trivial amount). 

 

In the end - no fines, as she did not make enough interest to be over the tax submission threshold  in any taxation year. And Revenue Canada payed her a trivial amount of money (refunding some withholding tax). But the amount refunded was VERY small, and it wasn't enough to compensate for the annoyance of having to file 5 years of Canadian tax returns.

 

But we got Revenue Canada off her back.

 

I wonder if Thai RD will end up also being as bull dog annoying? (sinking their teeth in and shaking back and forth until a useless (?) tax return pops out? ).

 

I hope not.

.

Edited Monday at 01:38 PM by oldcpu

[JJ Madcow]

45 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My feedback.

So they wanted your Danish tax ID.

They got your Thai Tax ID too because that's the same as your yellow book.

If you're in Thailand more than 180 days a year you're a Thailand tax resident regardless.

If your pension is EXEMPTED from taxation in Thailand, you can bring it all to Thailand and none of it is accessible as far as Thai taxation and no need to file here either. To know this, you need to find out the terms of the Denmark Thailand Double Taxation Agreement I seriously doubt the bank would know anything about that. Scratch that, I would bet the house they wouldn't know -- they're not revenue agency, they're a banK!

I am not sure if it was correct to use your Denmark address rather than your Thai address as I'm assuming you live in Thailand and are a Thai tax resident here (over 180 days).

I don't like the bank making these decisions for people on how to fill out those forms. I DO NOT trust them. 

 

Thanks.

After talking to the Danish Tax office i know my pension is EXEMPTED from taxation in Thailand.

Not sure if i have to do anything again before March 2025, But i going to drop by the Thai Tax office to be sure.

 

Kindly.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, JJ Madcow said:

 

Thanks.

After talking to the Danish Tax office i know my pension is EXEMPTED from taxation in Thailand.

Not sure if i have to do anything again before March 2025, But i going to drop by the Thai Tax office to be sure.

 

Kindly.

I would not do that.

If your only income here is that pension you have no tax accessible  income in Thailand and no need to file. Don't seek out trouble. You probably will want to confirm the exemption of your pension with a Thai tax lawyet knowledge about expat issues. 

Edited Monday at 01:46 PM by Jingthing

[anrcaccount]

55 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

58 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

If you want to believe rules are or will be strictly enforced in Thailand it's up to you.

If you assess enforcement risk is high it's up to you.

Others have different opinions.

If I have a choice between deciding whether to follow rules, or, accepting the word of strangers in an anonymous social network forum that the rules wont be enforced hence I don't need to follow them, guess which one wins hands down.

 

Ironic.

 

As you, an anonymous stranger, advise others to follow your opinion on the rules, instead of taking direct advice received from their local, official, revenue department. 

 

 

[topt]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:34 PM, chiang mai said:

Hargreaves Lansdowne does that yearly if I don't send them copies of my ID to prove who I am, EVERY YEAR

You must be special then as I don't get that from HL - and I have had an account with them for well over 20 years.......

 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You probably will want to confirm the exemption of your pension with a Thai tax lawyet knowledge about expat issues. 

 

@JJ Madcow - and/or with the Denmark/Thailand Double Taxation Agreement:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/denmark_e.pdf

 

[chiang mai]

5 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Ironic.

 

As you, an anonymous stranger, advise others to follow your opinion on the rules, instead of taking direct advice received from their local, official, revenue department. 

 

 

I have never ever suggested anybody do anything even remotely similar and I challenge you to prove that I have. You just made that up in order to try and score points because you have nothing of substance, only lies and nonsense that you've invented. Telling people they should push to be issued for a TIN when a TRD employee says they don't need one is in line with what the TRD Code states. The fact some TRD employees don't understand what the Code says is not consistent with TRD's own rules.

Edited Monday at 07:34 PM by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, topt said:

You must be special then as I don't get that from HL - and I have had an account with them for well over 20 years.......

 

Seriously? I fell out with them big time last November/December over this. It was the third year in a row they had requested I use their self certification app which doesn't seem to work from Thailand. Once again I had to courier all the documentation to Bristol and wait a week for them to approve it. I was just thinking today that it's that time of year once again but I've not heard anything from them, yet.

[The Cyclist]

12 hours ago, JimGant said:

I know what the Code says in relation to 60/120/220 thresholds for filing. I'm saying, forget the 60/120/220 thresholds, and only file when you have taxable income

 

Always great advice to ignore what is written down in black and white in the Revenue Code.

 

You know what the Revenue Code says, but wantnto ignore it. You are a real live superhero, you are.

 

Sarcasm has been deployed in the making of this comment.

[cdnvic]

Removed an off topic personal attack, and replies.

[JimGant]

15 hours ago, chiang mai said:

But as I posted previously, the Bangkok Post confirms that several million "null" tax returns were filed in 2023, so somebody must be enforcing something somewhere, either that or Thai people are public spirited and like to follow the letter of the tax law!!!

Public spirited, indeed. Those null tax returns were filed to get refunds -- many/most were fraudulent. A far cry from filing because the law says you must, with an income of 60k. Do your homework:

 

Quote

There were 11.9 million personal income tax forms filed for the income year 2023, submitted between Jan 1 and April 29, 2024, an increase of 3.34% from the same period last year.

Of the total tax filings, 4.25 million were requests for tax refunds,

Please credit and share this article with others using this link: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2799906/tax-refunds-delayed-by-surge-in-fake-submissions. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Public spirited, indeed. Those null tax returns were filed to get refunds -- many/most were fraudulent. A far cry from filing because the law says you must, with an income of 60k. Do your homework:

 

 

11.9 minus 4.25 suggests there are 8 mill people who pay tax,  there aren't. As the other article I posted at the same states, there is only 3 mill.  I did my homework, you only did half of yours. Both articles are linked in my earlier post exchange with you, perhaps you overlooked it, cough cough 

[JimGant]

14 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Put another way, if you don't file this year there may not be any immediate negative response, but questions may be asked in fitire years, as to why you did not......that is a the risk

Yeah, that's pretty scary --NOT -- if you have good records showing no taxable income.

Edited Tuesday at 04:05 AM by JimGant

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

my earlier post exchange with you, perhaps you overlooked it

Yeah, sometimes it's really difficult to wade through your musings.

[redwood1]

47 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, sometimes it's really difficult to wade through your musings.

 

I agree with this....

[chiang mai]

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, sometimes it's really difficult to wade through your musings.

Gosh I know, links can be so difficult to see sometimes!

[whitemouse]

On 12/2/2024 at 5:34 PM, Jingthing said:

I have a fun question.

I intend to file Kbank form even though they didn't email me and I also don't intend to get a TIN as I won't have any Thai accessible income this year.

But Iikely will have such income at a later year.

So then I will probably get a TIN and file (assuming it's clear by now that Thai Revenue is actually enforcing anything on retired expats with no in Thailand income (it should be clear by then).

So then I should go in an update or not bother?

 

Impossible to tell if you should react to this email.

 

I'm in Thailand 6 months every year and Kbank customer about 10 years, I received the email with 3 forms attached. 

So I took my Canadian passport, bank book with me to my Kasikorn branch. Manager knew immiditely what I needed afte I showed her this email. She copied my passport, made me sign the copy, and sign 1 printed page of almost no personal information about my Canadian income, not my address in Canada, no tax ID number, nothing. Sat down with a teller, signed that one paper and walked out. 

 

They didn't learn anything new from me, other than the number of new passport. That was it, all done she said. 

 

I don't know, maybe go and ask them. I never printed the 3 attached forms, I just wanted them to ask what it is, instead I got it all done in 5 minutes, most of it waiting in line.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, whitemouse said:

 

Impossible to tell if you should react to this email.

 

I'm in Thailand 6 months every year and Kbank customer about 10 years, I received the email with 3 forms attached. 

So I took my Canadian passport, bank book with me to my Kasikorn branch. Manager knew immiditely what I needed afte I showed her this email. She copied my passport, made me sign the copy, and sign 1 printed page of almost no personal information about my Canadian income, not my address in Canada, no tax ID number, nothing. Sat down with a teller, signed that one paper and walked out. 

 

They didn't learn anything new from me, other than the number of new passport. That was it, all done she said. 

 

I don't know, maybe go and ask them. I never printed the 3 attached forms, I just wanted them to ask what it is, instead I got it all done in 5 minutes, most of it waiting in line.

 

 

Virtually the same for me, though the majority of the time was waiting for the lady to type on the computer.

2 items signed 1 a paper with no special information, the other a copy of my passport and bank book

 

[JohnnyBD]

This is a little off topic, but since everyone is talking about Kasikorn, I thought some of you may know the answer to my question. Can you send USD, EUR, GBP, etc. to your FCD foreign currency deposit account, then convert to your THB acct using your phone app, or by using the internet, or do you have to go into the bank in person to do conversion?

 

I read where Kasikorn allows online conversions, but when I asked at my branch in Phrom Phong, Bangkok, they said no, that I would have to come into the bank to convert from USD acct to THB acct, so I didn't bother opening a USD acct. I had a THB acct with Kasikorn since 2018. I ended up opening accts with Bangkok Bank, because they allow online conversions. Just thought I would ask since this topic is about Kasikorn. Thanks.

Edited 11 hours ago by JohnnyBD

[traveller101]

On 12/1/2024 at 4:35 PM, snawa said:

Hi mate. Tick box "C", which says your Government (Australia) does not mandate disclosure of your TFN tax file number. 

Correct - and as far as The Privacy binding (TFN) Rule 2015 is concerned, Kasikorn Bank is not a legitimate Recipient to receive Australian Tax File Numbers.

When I'm back in Thailand early in 2025, I visit the branch and if requested will tick option "C" and comment as you suggested. In addition I'll reference Rule 2015, issued by The Office of the Australian Information Commissioner (OAIC).

[redwood1]

7 hours ago, whitemouse said:

 

Impossible to tell if you should react to this email.

 

I'm in Thailand 6 months every year and Kbank customer about 10 years, I received the email with 3 forms attached. 

So I took my Canadian passport, bank book with me to my Kasikorn branch. Manager knew immiditely what I needed afte I showed her this email. She copied my passport, made me sign the copy, and sign 1 printed page of almost no personal information about my Canadian income, not my address in Canada, no tax ID number, nothing. Sat down with a teller, signed that one paper and walked out. 

 

They didn't learn anything new from me, other than the number of new passport. That was it, all done she said. 

 

I don't know, maybe go and ask them. I never printed the 3 attached forms, I just wanted them to ask what it is, instead I got it all done in 5 minutes, most of it waiting in line.

 

 

 

Well if they did not learn any thing new about you.....Then the whole purpose of doing this seems completely worthless, and with out purpose...

Edited 7 hours ago by redwood1